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Andy8 · Jun 28, 2007, 12:58 AM

No one is forcing anyone to buy an iPhone.

If it is not the solution for you, then just wait! (like me)

Oh wait, i live in Asia, so i have no choice, i have another 8-10 months wait anyway!

icruise · Jun 28, 2007, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Krusty

Very Lame. On the bright side, you can set to-dos on iCal on your mac that will shoot you an email alarm to your iPhone at the specified time. So, the notification portion of the to-do at least has an easy work around.

Not a bad idea. I would also think that there might be some web apps that could take up some of the slack.

ghporter · Jun 28, 2007, 09:00 AM

I know I kind of ranted about wanting the iPhone to do "everything" for you earlier in this thread, but that was aimed more at the tone I read in the thread's title ("sickening feeling" sounds pretty over the top to me). However, this phone is not supposed to be "just" a phone with added features, it's supposed to be a lot more than that. If it's not going to integrate all the features we use in iCal, that is indeed lame. I wonder why this sort of alarm functionality wasn't included-it's not hard to code.

starman · Jun 28, 2007, 09:06 AM

Speaking as a software engineer and not an Apple fan, there are times we have to cut features because we just don't have the time to finish a product. There are always updates, and we do them all the time.

::maroma:: · Jun 28, 2007, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by starman

Speaking as a software engineer and not an Apple fan, there are times we have to cut features because we just don't have the time to finish a product. There are always updates, and we do them all the time.

A voice of reason. The simple fact is, if Apple had the time and resources to include all of these things that everyone wants, in a very tight seamless package, they would have. Apple is made up of human beings, they are not robots. Sometimes things that seem very important to you get left out. Decisions like that have to be made, there's no way around it. Unless we wanted to wait yet another year for the iPhone to be released. And by then, there'd be more stuff to put in the phone.

The point is, if you feel that Apple left out a very important feature, then don't get it. The vast majority of people won't buy this phone, so you won't be one of the few who don't have one. Just wait until Apple includes the feature(s) you want.

k2director · Jun 28, 2007, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

A voice of reason. The simple fact is, if Apple had the time and resources to include all of these things that everyone wants, in a very tight seamless package, they would have. Apple is made up of human beings, they are not robots. Sometimes things that seem very important to you get left out. Decisions like that have to be made, there's no way around it. Unless we wanted to wait yet another year for the iPhone to be released. And by then, there'd be more stuff to put in the phone.

The point is, if you feel that Apple left out a very important feature, then don't get it. The vast majority of people won't buy this phone, so you won't be one of the few who don't have one. Just wait until Apple includes the feature(s) you want.

A certain bar needs to be met. It's like selling a luxury car without a stereo system in it. Sure, the car can still get you from point a to b, but no stereo? A stereo isn't like side airbags, or tinting mirrors or voice-directed parking. It's not one of those features that's truly optional. A stereo is pretty core to to the driving experience.

And I think that synching something like To Dos, which an iPod Mini can do.....which my Samsung palm PDA/phone could do nearly 5 years ago....which my Sony P800 could do 4 years ago....which pretty much *any* smart phone on the entire planet can do today....is pretty core to the experience.

I have a lot of experience developing software. You don't keep cutting features no matter what. There are certain basic features that you make sure get into a launch product. If deadlines are getting tight, you take people off of products that aren't shipping yet. You hire more people. You hire an outside firm to help you out. There are ways around the problem of running out of development time.

Anyway, will the lack of To Dos sink the iPhone? No. But it's an embarrassment given the premium position of the iPhone, and that Apple emphasized how great its syncing abilities were. This is a missed opportunity for Apple to show what happens when you finally marry their own desktop apps with their own phone--ie, a great synching experience, where you're no longer forced to deal with incompatibilities between the computer apps that you use everyday (address book, calendar, etc.), and the apps on the phone. I'm so sick of finding out that an important field in my Address Book doesn't carry over to X phone, or Y phone doesn't support All-Day Events from iCal, or Z phone needs third-party synching software that has its own set of problems. That's so irritating, and Apple had the chance to get such glaring problems right from the start. Instead, my $600 iPhone will be missing some core compatibility with my iApps, just like any other phone.

I hope Apple fixes this with an update very very soon. And now, on to other things...

starman · Jun 28, 2007, 02:22 PM

Last I checked you can't firmware upgrade a car.

kman42 · Jun 28, 2007, 02:23 PM

Well, Playboy just announced iPlayboy just for the iPhone. Does that make up for the lack of ToDos?

analogika · Jun 28, 2007, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

A voice of reason. The simple fact is, if Apple had the time and resources to include all of these things that everyone wants, in a very tight seamless package, they would have.

Well, no - not really.

Apple has a strong history of leaving out features that aren't essential, not due to lack of time or resources, but because they are pretty much the only company who realize that feature overkill is worse than feature dearth.

And what's more, it is generally MUCH more difficult to *remove* a feature from an existing product, than it is to add one. People respond to feature loss with bloody murder, even after you point out to them that they've never actually used that feature, and that out of all the people who own the device, only 4% ever have.

analogika · Jun 28, 2007, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Last I checked you can't firmware upgrade a car.

Look up "BMW iDrive".

Software, technically, I know, but...

::maroma:: · Jun 28, 2007, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

Well, no - not really.

Apple has a strong history of leaving out features that aren't essential, not due to lack of time or resources, but because they are pretty much the only company who realize that feature overkill is worse than feature dearth.

Yes, which is why I included "in a very tight seamless package". Because like you said, Apple is the only company that looks at every feature closely and gages whether or not A) its worth the time and effort and B) whether they can implement it in a way that will be seamless and fluid. If they can't do it right they don't do it. I'm not suggesting that they couldn't figure out To Do's, but I'm referring to other more complicated features that were left out.

Honestly though, the only reason I can think of why they left out To Do's is because it got pushed back and pushed back and they decided to include it in a software update shortly after release. That, or they really are waiting for Leopard, but that seems odd to me.

analogika · Jun 28, 2007, 03:47 PM

Ah, okay, I get you. Sorry, we agree.

I think that perhaps for time reasons they decided to just go with the existing sync framework - for now.

ghporter · Jun 28, 2007, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Speaking as a software engineer and not an Apple fan, there are times we have to cut features because we just don't have the time to finish a product. There are always updates, and we do them all the time.

Excellent point. It's simply such a trivial concept that it's easy to think "hey, why didn't they dash off the three or four lines of code it'd take to put that in..." Of course in actuallythinking about it I can see that a "to do" function would be far more complex than just throwing in a few lines of code.

On the other hand, it seems that there are a lot of users who depend on to dos. As a software engineer, you are no doubt very familiar with the first few steps of the project design process, which includes defining what the customer wants and what they will accept at a minimum. I think it's possible that Apple underestimated what users really will accept as minimum features, especially knowing how we tend to hype our expectations into the stratosphere.

I hope that this is part of an update in the near future, just to show the user community that "Apple listens."

itai195 · Jun 28, 2007, 10:27 PM

Another workaround: there are some great websites out there for tracking todos, like rememberthemilk.com

cmoney · Jun 29, 2007, 12:05 AM

I'm starting to think the reason lots of features were left out is because of limited resources. They even pushed back Leopard because of iPhone development. Think about it, they probably dedicated everybody to the iPhone and worked on the features that could make or break it: UI smoothness, keyboard processing, etc. Then once Leopard is out the door, they can go back to the things that are missing on the iPhone. Not only that, they'd have enough feedback that they can triage the features that should be developed first.

In fact, it's been mentioned Apple is accounting for the revenues over the 2 year contract so it can continuously add features.

And some speculation in support of this: Leopard's email client will have notes and to-do support. Maybe an updated iPhone mail app or other widgets will integrate with the new client.

analogika · Jun 29, 2007, 03:48 AM

True also.

Remember that while Apple has 17,000-some employees, that's *tiny* compared to most other big players in the industry.

mmurray · Jun 29, 2007, 09:52 AM

This is just really lame. Oh well I don't have to worry about buying it until 2008 when Leopard is out and we can see if Apple are going to do this properly. I guess the other possibility is someone like MarkSpace will bring our their own software to sync the iPhone and get around these problems.

Michael

xi_hyperon · Jun 29, 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by itai195

Another workaround: there are some great websites out there for tracking todos, like rememberthemilk.com

Hear, hear. If you've got to-do's, I highly recommend giving rememberthemilk a try if you haven't already. Just go now.

davesimondotcom · Jun 29, 2007, 02:33 PM

37 Signals is working on Ta-Da lists for iPhone.

Can't wait for Basecamp on iPhone.*

*Since I'm in Montana, no iPhone for me. But I still can't wait.

k2director · Jun 30, 2007, 02:28 AM

Well, even the glaring lack of To Dos was no match for the fact that every cell in my body was crying out for an iPhone. I logged 1.5 hours in line at The Grove (Los Angeles), and walked out with a beautiful 8 gigger.

I won't be using any To Do alternatives, because I want a hassle-free experience through iCal, which I use for all organizational work on my desktop and laptop. Instead, I'll just start the systematic pinging of various Apple folks I know about issuing a software update to plug this hole. They'll be sorry!

mmurray · 03:08 AM

The problem with web based solutions is you have to be on the internet. That isn't always possible and means you can't do anything on a plane.

Michael