[cocoa_coder]

Hey folks. I copped (bought) a 17" pb today. and i noticed 1 dead pixel stuck on red! what can i do? should i try to exchange it with apple? Can I? I have the apple care ! Im sure i can. I know sony would not let you exchange for 1 pixel. But after paying damn near 4 grand i dont want anything wrong with this ****. especially since my titanium 800 did not have any dead pixels.

[Vi0]

I'd take it back and demand a fresh one.

Whenever you buy from a physical store, you should open up laptops and turn them on to check the screen *always*.

Why did you buy AppleCare by the way? Do many people buy AppleCAre?

[chrisutley]

I forget what the number is required to get a new machine, but I know 1 isn't it. You are stuck unless you want to eat the 15% restocking fee.

You could try fighting it via. your credit card company. Tell them the unit is "defective" right out of the box, you want it replaced. See what happens...

[The Ginger Rat]

One bad pixel isn't much at all.

But you can try gently massaging it out. Rub the screen with a finger covered in a soft cloth (gently!) and see if that helps.

[swsteckly]

That sucks! Apple's policy requires five (I think) dead or stuck pixels to qualify for a repair. You will get neither a replacement or repair in your current situation.

It sucks, but sometimes we a lucky and sometimes not. I had a dead pixel right in the center of my Pismo - something I had to live with.

But, it's not defective by Apple's or any other manufacturers standards.

[jackbee]

I got 2 stuck pixels!!! There was none for first hour or so. Than the first one appeared and today, I found another one!!! This is very upsetting! I tried massaging them, but that didn't help at all. I have owned many notebooks in my life time but this is the first. And it had to happen with the most expensive notebook I've ever bought!

[DimeTech]

Since I got the 17" last week, I've had a total of about 5 stuck pixels on various colors. I used the massage technique and it worked successfully every time. Try it out; if it didn't work, people wouldn't be doing it. I was kind of annoyed when I first saw it, but everything worked out just fine.

[cirque]

Originally posted by DimeTech:
Since I got the 17" last week, I've had a total of about 5 stuck pixels on various colors. I used the massage technique and it worked successfully every time. Try it out; if it didn't work, people wouldn't be doing it. I was kind of annoyed when I first saw it, but everything worked out just fine.

If I bought a laptop and experienced 5 dead pixels in a week, I wouldn't rub anything... I would take it back.

cirque

[urrl5201]

I have a white pixel on the left middle of my screen about 1/2 inch from the edge. I don't mind it at all. It just looks like a spec of dust. My 17" still rocks. I would never trade it for any perfect 15" screen .

[Mobile Mod]

On my 17" there is a one stuck blue pixel, but i can never see it unless i look for it. I mean, even when the screen goes black for iTunes or DVD's i cant see the thing. So, i think i can live with just one dead pixel!

Justin

[Patcarla]

Originally posted by Vi0:
I'd take it back and demand a fresh one.

Whenever you buy from a physical store, you should open up laptops and turn them on to check the screen *always*.

Why did you buy AppleCare by the way? Do many people buy AppleCAre?

Yeah right... Apple will NEVER..EVER ..replace a PB with one dead or stuck pixel. Save your time and don't even bother going back to a store witht is kind of problem. BTW, Applecare does not apply for this kind of problem..

[claughery]

Just pray and keep rubbin if you only got one...

[lephantom]

I just picked up my 17" Powerbook yesterday from a store which states on their receipt, no refunds on hardware. Anyway, I found 1 pixel stuck in red. I gently massage the surface of the screen with a cloth to no avail. I then pressed the back of the screen where the pixel was located and the dead pixel disappeared. It reappeared a couple of minutes later but repeating the rear massage made it vanish once more. So far, it has been stable. Just do not rub too hard. I believe you need >5 dead pixels to have you computer listed as dead on arrival by Apple and thus should get a replacement.

[kmingis]

Just to add my 2 cents worth on stuck pixels, I've had one show up a couple of times--stuck on green, off to the left side of the screen. I massaged it a bit and it went away. Came back the next day, I massaged it some more and it went away again. Still gone as of now (after a couple of days). It's a bit of a bummer, but it does happen on occasion with LCD screens. First one I've ever had occur on a Powerbook and I've had several. Bt I still love my PB 17.

[b3b0p]

well if it makes you feel any better you still have a 99.9999% perfect screen!

Many years ago (Pre OS X) I baught an IBM Thinkpad 600X. It cost me around $4500. It had one dead stuck pixel in the upper left portion of the screen. I was beyond furious!I eventually returnded it for 7.5% restocking ($338!). I just picked up a used 600E on eBay instead where the owner lived close by and confirmed no dead pixels for me (for 1/3 the cost too and a really nice IBM bag to boot!).

I don't think you need to worry about it. I have my 17" and you won't see me hunting for dead pixels on it. If they are their I don't want to know about them. Unless it is enough to get me a replacement of course. But over the last few days I have hunted kinda subconsiously and I am pretty sure I don't have any.

Cheers,
Chris

[danbrew]

Bunch of crap. If one stuck/bad/whatever pixel is in the wrong place or the wrong color, you're screwed (photo editing, etc.). I'd take it back and demand another.

Worst case - smack the back of the screen a few times to develop a few more bad pixels and then take it back.

[chrisutley]

Then everybody with a bad pixel starts doing this, Apple throws away thousands of LCD's each year. The cost of the 17-inch Powerbook goes up to $3800.

Originally posted by danbrew:
Bunch of crap. If one stuck/bad/whatever pixel is in the wrong place or the wrong color, you're screwed (photo editing, etc.). I'd take it back and demand another.

Worst case - smack the back of the screen a few times to develop a few more bad pixels and then take it back.

[seanyepez]

I couldn't care less. Live with your bad pixel. Once your PowerBook becomes a tool rather than a toy, you will forget it has a bad pixel. I guarantee it.

[DimeTech]

Originally posted by cirque:
If I bought a laptop and experienced 5 dead pixels in a week, I wouldn't rub anything... I would take it back.

cirque

they weren't dead, they were stuck. if they were dead, i would have taken it back too

[Karim]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I couldn't care less. Live with your bad pixel. Once your PowerBook becomes a tool rather than a toy, you will forget it has a bad pixel. I guarantee it.

Well I do care, I got a 17" and a 15" and a 15" and a 15" and a 15" and a 13" and a 13" and 13" and (what the hell size screen is a Powerbook 170 10"? and a Mac Portable 9"?) with no bad pixels on any of them.

And yes, I checked.

My tools are in a big chest in the garage, my Powerbook is on a beautiful antique desk and the Powerbook is the best looking part of it.

I use the Powerbook for work, and play and I know everyone needs to realize bad pixels HAPPEN and if we ALL returned them they would cost another xxxx$. Well, all of us on this forum DO CARE and none of us want bad pixels.

Some bad pixels aren't noticeable, thats OK. Some are, and I and no-one else wants them, and we do care, and if someone says they don't thats fine but it doesn't matter much what someone else thinks about my Powerbook. Really.

My opinion is that my Powerbook is a work of art that helps me get my work done and I consider it (17") the pinnacle of laptop design. Whether you care about my bad pixels or not doesn't matter to me, I don't want them.

This problem will fix itself, OLED and other technologies will eventually lead to zero defect LCD panels. Let's fact it, a bad pixel is a manufacturing DEFECT and I don't care how someone characterizes it with some euphamism. It is a defect. Do I want to buy a laptop with a defect when it is a brand new purchase... no. When I want to sell this laptop on eBay and advertise it with a bad pixel, am I going to lose money compared to another laptop that doesn't have bad pixels... yes. Tool or not, bad pixels are expensive, both in happiness and resale value.

I have been lucky, I've owned about a dozen laptops (all from Apple, 1 from Toshiba) and have never gotten a bad pixel. I did have a Sharpe Zaurus with a bad pixel and returned it, but not only for the pixel.

[benb]

Originally posted by danbrew:
Bunch of crap. If one stuck/bad/whatever pixel is in the wrong place or the wrong color, you're screwed (photo editing, etc.). I'd take it back and demand another.

Yea, that 1 pixel, .25mm wide, stuck on a color is really gonna screw up photo editing.

[seanyepez]

Dead pixels are defects. I hate them too. They've become a reality for me, though. In my experience, it's better to ignore them than complain about them. If your PowerBook ends up not getting fixed or replaced, the fact that you have a bad pixel is further ingrained in your conciousness.

Karim, you're exceptionally lucky. I've had two 1-gigahertz PowerBooks and they've both had bad pixels. My 20-inch Cinema Display has a pixel stuck on red in the center of the screen. Three out of four Sony laptops I've owned have had pixel defects, and the other one that didn't have any had a screen that was tilted. You've never had to deal with returning a machine because of a pixel defect. Frankly, I don't think you're qualified to tell someone to complain to Apple. Once you have had a machine with a pixel defect, you will understand how much of a hassle it is to get Apple to do anything at all for you.

OLED technology will fix the problem. However, it's not going to become mainstream for another few years.

[Mac Zealot]

You're a moron, karim, if you can't stand a stupid 0.25mm dead pixel on your screen.

Go fsck yourself. I have a screen with about 300 and I just was able to get it replaced!

[Karim]

Originally posted by Mac Zealot:
You're a moron, karim, if you can't stand a stupid 0.25mm dead pixel on your screen.

Go fsck yourself. I have a screen with about 300 and I just was able to get it replaced!

Yes, OK, I will FSCK, I do it everytime I crash. As I said, I have never had to deal with bad pixels, and Yes, I consider myself really lucky.

I'm sorry you have had 300 bad pixels, I suggest you try to get it fixed, it seems ideally suitable as a candidate for replacement given that 5 or 6 is the threshold.

I'm also looking forward to the new Jack Nicholson movie "ANGER MANAGEMENT"

[Raptorz]

I think I'm lucky I just got my 17" powerbook without one dead pixel. Whats "OLED" technolgy and how does it work?

[Karim]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
I don't think you're qualified to tell someone to complain to Apple. Once you have had a machine with a pixel defect, you will understand how much of a hassle it is to get Apple to do anything at all for you.

Believe me, I don't want to be an evangelist of screen repair. I would never bother to complain to Apple for a bad pixel. I just woudn't. I however do try to buy form a retailer that allows for "no questions asked" return.

The funny thing is I have never bought any of my Apple laptops from such a place and yet have had no bad pixels.

I did buy my Cinema HD screen from Fry's electronics based solely on the possibility of a bad pixel (the screen is so big that statistically it seemed likely) and yet no bad pixels. Fry's lets you return anything for any reason within 30 days. I specifcally questioned the salesman on what if's regarding the display and he said whatever I didn't like would be OK to return.

I was a part owner of a Mac only Mac retailer chain and we had to honor Apple's return policy. Fry's apparently deals with it on a volume basis and doesn't care.

I don't want them, and recommend users that don't either buy them from outlets that allow for returns. In no case do I recommend you buy one direct from Apple and rely on the bitch and moan technique.

The last thing I want to do is hurt Apple. But if somebody like Frys wants to absorb that sort of cost, for no extra cost to the consumer, I suggest you take advantage of it. I would.

But, as I said, I have been lucky.

In fact, I did order my 17" from scamAZON but since they started dragging their dates out I went for the Apple store.

I went in bought my 17", the first they ever sold to anyone from the store, took it home and opened it up and posted to MacNN everything that happened after that.

And, I was lucky again (thank goodness) no bad pixels....

If I had a bad pixel what would I have done? If it was a red one or something that obvious in the middle of the screen, I probably would have waited until the 17 inchers were more widely available (or within 10 days) to return it to the Apple store for a different one and eaten the restock fee.

I understand those who feel a big red dot in the center of the screen is OK and will not affect the usefullness of the computer. My response is that to each his own. It would be unacceptable to me.

This debate will go on until OLED and other technologies solve the problem, and luckily for all of us shouldn't be more than 2 or 3 years.

[cdrgonzo20]

it is unreasonable to suggest that computer manufacturers should be held responsible for ensuring that something with millions of pixels and one stuck one, should be replaced. it borders on neurosis to obsess over something so insignificant. does it in any way functionally interrupt your work flow?

have you considered what would happen if everybody were able to hold apple to a no stuck pixel policy? thousands of lcd's would have to be replaced. it's economically not feasible. the technology is not yet available to ensure absolute perfection in the production process. if they were to toss away every candidate with a stuck pixel they would lose money and waste resources. as for fry's, while you may be escaping the stuck pixel, somebody else is getting stuck with it. fry's doesn't send those things back to the manufacturer, they repackage them and slap a white label on the box saying it has been returned but is still being sold as new.

be reasonable man.

[robby818]

Fry�s has a very nice return policy. The salesperson (motivated by a nice commission) let me open up two 20� cinema displays. Sadly, both had dead pixels. He marked them down $50 and sold them as open-box items. I ended up buying a returned 20� display from the Apple store at the Grove. Since it was a return, the staff was more than happy to open it before I bought it. I didn�t even have to say why I wanted to hook it up, the guy just knew exactly what I was looking for. Some Apple retailers may also be willing to check LCDs before you buy. If you are buying a high end notebook, it usually means a nice commission so people will work with you if you ask. Smalldog is good for this as well but then you have to deal w the shipping if you do an exchange. Basically, if you REALLY care then you may end up doing a lot of legwork and negotiating in order to get the perfect display (and of course paying sales tax). I care so I do the legwork but I�m young and I have the time to do it.

Some people care about this issue and others do not. But it is a bit disappointing when you buy a nice LCD to have a little mfr. defect there. The vast majority of people prob don't really care. For the small % that do, do your homework and shop carefully or else be prepared to pay a hefty restocking fee.

[Simon]

Honestly I don't think this opening of dozens of boxes until you can find one without any stuck pixels is ok.

I don't want anything else but a factory sealed box. Or how would you guys appreciate it if a couple of guys had their fingers all over your "new" hardware before you bought it and did stuff you had no control over.

That said, I will not buy any hardware that is not factory sealed. If Apple allows people to open boxes before they buy the stuff they'll have to see who they can still sell it to.

[Raidiant]

I had 300 stuck pixels before and still managed to live with it for a while though I would hate to have ANY dead pixels on my screen as I have bought many compaq laptops before and none of them any pixel problems for year.

However I would not take the fuss of getting 1 pixel fixed, i'd just try to enjoy it, after a few days unless you keep thinking about it you will just forget it.

Also from experience I understand the reason stuck or dead pixel appears, especially after a while of use then you notice it has nothing to do with the manuacturer. If you constantly apply pressure to the back of the screen like dump it in a bag with books or use it without a case then you'll probably generate your own dead pixels. This explains why some people have excessive lcd screen problems and some people never have.

[SubGeniux]

i know, my pismo had no duff pixels but just recently the bottom left hand ofthe screen has this arcing black strip goingfrom the botom of the screen to the left edge. God knows what it is, its not dead pixels, cause i can see the colours of my desktop behind it, it looks like its just discoloured orwater damageed? it doesnt bother me, my pismo is just ovr 2 years old but i hope its not a sign of my screen dying. lol

[b3b0p]

Not entirely off topic but thought I would mention that some manufacturers of LCD DO HAVE A ZERO DEFECT POLICY.

I know from experience that All Epson LCD Projectors have a Zero Defect Policy. I had an Epson Home Theater Projector with 1280 x 720 Resolution. At 70"+ screen sizes dead/stuck pixels can be seen quite easily sometimes depending on the color being displayed.

Anyway, I went through 5 of those babies before they offered my money back or wait for a new updated version of the projector to come out 2+ months later. They acknowleged that there was a defect with this model somewhere in the process for all the model numbers I had.

Anyway, chose to get my money back and got a Sony instead. Does not have a zero defect policy but I am happy.

BTW, the Sony has no stuck/dead pixels. Guess I'm lucky.


Cheers,
Chris

[Karim]

Yeah a LCD projector would not be a good thing to have a bad pixel. Imagine projecting a bad pixel a couple of dozen feet to a large screen and it would blow up the defect from micro sized to a very noticeable size.

[Karim]

Originally posted by Raptorz:
I think I'm lucky I just got my 17" powerbook without one dead pixel. Whats "OLED" technolgy and how does it work?

OLED stands for Organic Light Emitting Diode.

Basically a current tech LCD panel is a bunch of crystals in a liquid matrix that will twist when electric current is applied to them. When they twist they let light pass through them and you get an "on" pixel and when they don't twist they become opaque and you get an "off" pixel.

OLED replaces the crystals with material that is bioluminescent. When they are stimulated with electricity they glow. They are similar to algae that glows in the dark when it is disturbed.

OLED won't be fragile and I'm not sure about whether the "material" is actually alive or not--- and if so, what happens if and when they die. I haven't read up in a detailed way on OLED in quite a few years because the tech was announced around 7 years ago but I hear blurbs on it lateley that seem to mean that it is coming fairly soon to laptops. Some small cellphone screens use it now.

OLED also is massively low power. Much much much less than current LCD's.

[justinhale]

where do i go for the dead pixel util?
wanna check out my new 17"er

justin.

[TBoxman]

Originally posted by justinhale:
where do i go for the dead pixel util?
wanna check out my new 17"er

justin.

Try this:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11661

TBoxman

[cocoa_coder]

well i did not want to start a thread war,but basically with most consumer electronics you can bring it back no matter what the reason. My original line of reasoning was that if i could simply return it to apple and get a new one i would. But if the standard procedure is to allow up to 5 pixels so be it. I notice it in the background or when my screen gets a solid color. but i wont notice it on day to day use. I'm a programmer mostly so I will be staring at lines of code anyways. I'm totally happy with my 17" and now that I think about it, I would tolerate a dead pixel for the convenience of not having to return it and go through the reinstallation of my programs. It really is a small defect. I just wish that for 4 grand total the screen was free from defects. But I was lucky on my last pb, maybe my next one will be free from defects.It's funny. It's like getting your house painted then complaining that a 1mm spot on the wall is discolored. So fkcuing what!! anyway. Sorry for starting this cry baby thread. On another note, man I LOVE THE 17" PB. I am now, after two days used to it. I was installing software on my old 15"pb to send to the person that bought it off of me on ebay, and i really missed the vast expanse of the 17". Man, I think apple ruined me, I don't think I could go back to a 15"

[TBoxman]

My 17" Powerbook arrived at 9:30 AM this morning. After clearing and cleaning by desk, I unpackaged the unit. Then I scanned thru the Getting Started manual. I thoroughly checked out the PowerBook and was amazed at the manufacturing and design. This thing in beautiful. I opened the lid. The keyboard and screen look wonderful. I can't believe this was made on earth.

OK. Time to boot it up. Wait, WHAT IS THAT?!?! I have a vertical line of green pixels extending from the bottom of the keyboard to about 80% up to the top. Left to right it is located between the F10 and F11 keys.

I called Apple Care. Seems I'm the first to call about the 17" PowerBook. After speaking with a very nice Senior Technitian, I'm told they want the unit back. They will send me a new one.

However, here is the process. They send me a shipping label; I return the unit; they process the order; then they send one if they have it in stock; shipping back to me is 3-6 days. The catch is that they want this sent back to Engineering, not the normal return center. She is checking to see if Engineering has any stock. If not, I may be back in the waiting game.

Now, since I still have this computer sitting next to me, I decide to watch a DVD. It won't take a disk in the drive. I had the restore DVD in earlier, and then an audio CD listening to iTunes. Now it won't take anything.

Starting to get nervous again,
TBoxman

[Raptorz]

Originally posted by Karim:
OLED stands for Organic Light Emitting Diode.

Basically a current tech LCD panel is a bunch of crystals in a liquid matrix that will twist when electric current is applied to them. When they twist they let light pass through them and you get an "on" pixel and when they don't twist they become opaque and you get an "off" pixel....

Thanks for the explanation I couldn't have asked for anything more!

[TBoxman]

Originally posted by TBoxman:
She is checking to see if Engineering has any stock. If not, I may be back in the waiting game.

Apple Care just called me back to inform me that Engineering does have units in stock. The entire exchange should take between 3 to 6 business days. I should have my new replacement PowerBook by Monday/Tuesday.

TBoxman

[sandsl]

I've got a dead pixel on my Tibook 800. It was a shock at first, by now I just live with it.

[danbrew]

Originally posted by benb:
Yea, that 1 pixel, .25mm wide, stuck on a color is really gonna screw up photo editing.

You're obviously not a photographer. (But, then again, maybe I'm not either (grin)). I tried to illustrate the problem here - it's not always this obvious - but can be a royal pain.

Hey, everybody is different - but I'd personally never accept a bad pixel in a tool for which I'd paid a few grand.

[seanyepez]

That picture terribly exaggerates the problem of bad pixels. You usually know where your bad pixels are, and you're able to work around them.

[pamelah]

Originally posted by danbrew:
You're obviously not a photographer. (But, then again, maybe I'm not either (grin)). I tried to illustrate the problem here - it's not always this obvious - but can be a royal pain.

Hey, everybody is different - but I'd personally never accept a bad pixel in a tool for which I'd paid a few grand.

ouch! so THAT'S what they look like?!? If you ask me, that's a problem.

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by pamelah:
ouch! so THAT'S what they look like?!? If you ask me, that's a problem.

No. That's not what they look like. They're spread out, and you don't usually get more than one or two per 17-inch screen. Most of the time, your screen will be perfect. The dotted ear is a blatant misrepresentation of the problem.

[danbrew]

Originally posted by seanyepez:
No. That's not what they look like. They're spread out, and you don't usually get more than one or two per 17-inch screen. Most of the time, your screen will be perfect. The dotted ear is a blatant misrepresentation of the problem.

Dude - see my post.- "it's not always this obvious" - I added the pixels to the photo for illustrative purposes. Forget about all of the pixels in that photo except for ONE colored pixel in the eye. Ouch. That would pretty much make the PB useless for my applications.

What if you were a graphic designer and needed accurate color rendering? What if you were designing a blue brochure and you had blue pixels stuck on or off in your design?

Hey, like I said, everybody is different. If one (or two or a few or more) bad pixels are OK for you, God Bless. They're not ok for me, however.

The argument that I hear all the time is "oh hell, there are millions of pixels on a typical LCD - it's to be expected" is just silly. It's kind of like saying that there are millions of transistors in a processor, so it's ok that a few don't work. Bah.

[Karim]

yeah, remember when the Intel processors had a math mistake where 1+1=3 (not the exact problem but you get the idea).

Intel tried to call it a feature not a defect and Microsoft had to patch Windows to work around the "feature"

[Karim]

Your demo sitatuion would result in a LCD replacement. I think it is around 5 bad pixels total or a certain grouping, ie x number per inch that would trigger automatic LCD replacement by just about any manufacturer.

You know I wouldn't be adverse to Apple charging extra for a zero-defect Applecare policy that would allow for LCD replacement if any bad pixels cropped up. I'm surprised they (and no-one else) don't do this. Say an extra $200.00 (Have to make it less than the restock fee)

I would buy it each time.

Is it worth it to you to have no bad pixels for $200, some would say yes, some would say no, and some whould say what's a bad pixel.

I don't know what the statistics are for bad pixels but $200 extra probably would cover it.

[seanyepez]

That defect affected the functionality of the product. For the most part, bad pixels don't.

[solagratia1600]

It seems like the moderators of this discussion group is sleeping or something, people are getting away with abusing and swearing.