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neilio · Jun 10, 2004, 01:02 PM

(Bizarre. I posted this thread, but no content appeared. Ah well, let's try this again..)

Hi all -

Here's my dilemma. I currently own a Quicksilver 1.2ghz G4 tower (souped up - 1.5G ram, Sonnet ATA133 pci card, etc.), which I've had for nearly three years. It's time to upgrade, and I can't seem to decide whether I should purchase a dual 2.0ghz G5 tower, or a fully-loaded 15" powerbook.

I know there's a major difference in horsepower here, but what I'm curious about is if anyone is using the latest 15" powerbooks as desktop replacements, and how they compare to a system like I currently have.

If I did puchase the powerbook, I'd probably replace the hard drive with a 7200rpm model and put as much ram as possible in it - 1G at least. What I'm hoping for is how people found a system like this performed.

The portability is a big factor for me, but at the same time, I want to maintain as closely as possible at least the level of performance that I currently use.

Oh, and I have a developer's discount, so the price isn't as much of an issue for either option.

Thoughts? Thanks, everyone!

JHromadka · Jun 10, 2004, 01:17 PM

How do you plan on using it (graphics, development, general, etc)? I have one of the new 15" models and use it as my only machine and love it. Great performance for everyday work and in the few games that I play.

neilio · Jun 10, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by JHromadka:
How do you plan on using it (graphics, development, general, etc)? I have one of the new 15" models and use it as my only machine and love it. Great performance for everyday work and in the few games that I play.

General usage - web browsing, email, web development and design, digital photography and graphics work, light video editing (FCP) and DVD authoring (DVD Studio pro), etc. Nothing massively draining (e.g. no hard core photoshop or 3D stuff), but there are some things that I will be doing that are somewhat more resource-hungry.

If I do purchase the powerbook, I will at some point end up buying a tower, but I was interested how the PBs stand up to comparisons with my current setup.

Randman · Jun 10, 2004, 01:26 PM

I'd get the PowerBook. Add an AirPort card, a good mouse/trackball, external keyboard and external monitor as needed.

madmacgames · Jun 10, 2004, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Randman:
Add an AirPort card

All new powerbooks come with AirPort Extreme built into every configuration.

urrl78 · Jun 10, 2004, 01:46 PM

I think it depends on your need to go mobile. Would you like to take your computer along like I do almost everywhere you go? Would you miss getting online in a motel room or going to a friend's/customers house or business partners office to show your work? As far as I am concerned I am a mobile user for life. Personally at this time I would opt for the larger 5400 RPM hard drive. Barefeats' comparison to me looks like the additional storage of the 5400 far outweighs the difference in speeds between the 7200 and the 5400 HD's.

andreas_g4 · Jun 10, 2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by JHromadka:
How do you plan on using it (graphics, development, general, etc)? I have one of the new 15" models and use it as my only machine and love it. Great performance for everyday work and in the few games that I play.

I'd say that a 1.5 GHz Powerbook has a lot more power that is needed for everyday work.

You say that you've got a developer discount, so why don't get a Powermac for work and an iBook G4 for mobile, personal and presentation use.

neilio · Jun 10, 2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
You say that you've got a developer discount, so why don't get a Powermac for work and an iBook G4 for mobile, personal and presentation use.

Alas, I only have a single discount for a single machine - one of my clients is an Apple developer and was nice enough to give me it. Thus my dilemma.

andreas_g4 · Jun 10, 2004, 02:22 PM

Database error. Double post. Sorry.

spacefreak · Jun 10, 2004, 02:49 PM

I got the 17" 1.5Ghz Powerbook about a week ago, and I am very impressed. I have a dual 1.25 PowerMac also, and so far, I see no significant performance drop-off when going from the tower to the notebook. And the norebook is much quieter than my tower.

I have 2 gigs of memory in each unit, and I suggest a heavy dose of memory for the powerbook.

A few years ago, I had a 667Mhz TiBook, and this new Powerbook destroys that thing in performance. Back then, I had used the 667 as my main machine at 2 locations (work, home). But this 17-inch Powerbook is the one I should have had.

I think you'll be very satisfied using a 1.5 Ghz powerbook as a desktop replacement. I recommend the 17-inch model as well. Actually, I think that when I was looking at the discount configurations (I also have a bud who gets a discount), the 17-incher was only $125 more. Besides the screen space, it is also much more comfortable on a lap than the 15-incher.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

KP* · Jun 12, 2004, 12:48 PM

I have a desktop machine which is a G4 dual 1.25 Power Mac w/ 2GB RAM, with a 23" Cinema Display (and a 15" spare CRT monitor I had lying around). I really like how I can spread out on the desktop machine so I always use it when I'm at home. But if I hadn't already had the desktop when I bought the PB, I probably could have acheived close to the same thing by using the PB with an external monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc. In a way it would be easier because I wouldn't have to always be moving files between them, and there would be more room on my desk without the tower and spare monitor.

My PB is a rev. A Al15" w/ 1.25 gHz, 1 GB RAM. It's definitely slower than my desktop machine, but a hard drive upgrade would probably help a lot, and it could be increased to 2GB RAM if money was no object. It sounds like compared to your current machine, the Rev. B Powerbook would be faster, though of course not as fast as a G5. I guess the bottom line is whether you'll be doing any kind of work like Photoshop or video editing, or gaming. If that stuff is not so important, but you want the portability, then go with the PB. And you can still do that stuff, it just won't be as efficient as a G5.

neilio · Jun 12, 2004, 01:03 PM

Thanks for the excellent feedback, everyone! I decided to go with the Powerbook, thinking that I'll always have a chance to go for a G5 in the future. Checking over the Xbench scores for the various PBs in comparison with my machine's scores helped in my decision: I know the Xbench scores can be wildly variable, but I'm going to replace my current machine with this, and in general the PB looked to be just ahead of my tower.

(It constantly amazes me that the technology and power I had to purchase a tower for less than two years ago is now available in something as small as a laptop. Very cool.)

The college I teach at provides us with a PB (15" 1ghz 1st generation aluminum), which I'll have to give back as I'm moving... and I realized that I'm going to really miss having something portable, so that helped seal the deal.

This is what I ordered, for the curious:

15" 1.5ghz w/ backlit keyboard
Stock ram (I'm going to upgrade this to 1.5g with some ram from OWC)
128 vram
80G 5400 drive (I've got a Lacie external FW400 drive that I think will help make up the drive speed difference, too)
Dr. Bott DIV-to-ADC adapter
40G ipod (I couldn't resist: the developer discount for the ipods is pretty nice!)

I'll post back here once I've received my system with thoughts and observations. Thanks again!

Musti · Jun 12, 2004, 03:26 PM

The biggest factor for me in buying a system is whether it is going to be easy on my aging eyes. A new PowerMac with a good screen is always more expensive than a good PowerBook. I am not a power user, though I am considered to be a heavy user (lots of less-horsepower requiring work). Plus the "cool factor", plus the portability, plus I've grown to love the keyboards of PowerBooks. Since 2000, I've used a Wallstreet, a Ti667 DVI and a Ti867. I've never looked back.

Randman · Jun 12, 2004, 03:37 PM

Get an AirPort, Extreme or Express and you'll be set. Sounds like you got a good deal and you'll love both the PB and the iPod.

k2director · Jun 13, 2004, 06:55 AM

3 years ago, this may have been a controversial question, but not now. Any top-line Apple notebook will make a good desktop replacement, unless you're doing tons of processor-intensive work (3d rendering, encoding video, etc.).

I used a G3 PowerBook (500Mhz) and a Ti800 Mhz to do a ton of video editing for over two years, and found them very workable. Nowadays, you can get twice as much speed, drive space, memory, etc.

Of course, I recently finished a big project, and rewarded myself with a Dual 2Ghz G5, and twin 23" Cinema Displays. I LOVE having all the speed, screen real estate and 500 gigs of internal drive space, so I never have to connect and power up another Firewire drive for extra video storage. But I still find myself taking my Alubook 1.25 Ghz to cafes and doing plenty of work on it. I think you'll be fine with a laptop, and love the mobility....

NightEyes · Jun 13, 2004, 01:12 PM

I think you'll be happy with the PowerBook as a desktop replacement. A year and a half a go I sold my G4 Tower and have used a PB as my main machine since then with no regrets. Good luck with your new computer.

McFarmer · Jun 13, 2004, 01:55 PM

I've had a 800MHz TiBook for 2+ years. I've always had PowerBooks, but during the last 2 years I started to shift, started to find them lacking. This got worse with the introduction of the G5 desktops because the gap widened. PowerBook video cards are never that great compared to desktops. And while the screen had a good resolution, my external monitor made a huge difference - and at that point I started asking myself why do I use a portable machine in the first place if I connect it to a desktop monitor most of the time. And the slow 4200rpm HD didn't really help either.

But most of all, I grew tired of daily lugging around a rather big and heavy 15" TiBook.

It was at that point that I thought I might be better served with two machines, a low end 12" iBook or PowerBook for my mobile needs - and a G5 desktop later for the heavy duty stuff.

I got a 12" PowerBook in the end and it is a lot faster than the TiBook. But OS X is so much more 'fluid' with dual CPU machines. I had high hopes for the Rev B PowerMacs, but to be honest, even the 2.5 looks a bit disappointing. Not the speed, that's perfectly fine, but the BTO options really suck IMHO. Especially in the HD and graphic card department.

How long will a G4 last you?
If you truly want a desktop replacement that'll last you a few years, perhaps you should wait for a G5. The performance gap between the high end PowerBook at 1.5GHz and the high end PowerMac at dual 2.5GHz is quite dramatic. Add to that the bus speed difference. It's probably safe to assume the high end PowerMac is 3-4 times faster than the most expensive high end 17" PowerBook. Would you be OK with that?
Personally I don't like to have such a wide performance gap between the two high end machines. But it will likely be way more than a year until we see dual core G5 CPUs in PowerBooks...

shatten22 · Jun 13, 2004, 09:40 PM

I've also been trying to decide what to do, I have a pbook 550 now and it's definitely lacking for what I want to do.

I've all but settled on getting a dual G5 1.8 and keeping my pbook 550 for moving around with. After seeing actual benchmarks, I find the Alubook 1.5 to be less desirable. Any of the dual G5's will be more than twice as fast. That's hard to argue with.

-g

neilio · Jun 21, 2004, 01:01 AM

Well, folks, just a quick update on my situation - my new 15" powerbook is currently in transit, and my expected delivery date (according to Fedex) is the 24th.

So far, we're looking at Shanghai -> Anchorage -> Memphis. I'm in Canada, so I'm expecting at least one more stop before the delivery makes it to me.

I ordered a piece of 1G ram from OWC (this one), but was stupid and forgot to get the single 512mb ram chip option from Apple instead of the two 256mb pieces. Ah well - I've read good things about the OWC ram and am hoping I won't have any of the fickle ram issues that have plagued these machines.

I'll post a review of my experiences once my laptop arrives and I get a chance to play with it a bit, to complete this topic on the PBs as desktop replacements.

Neil

RooneyX · Jun 21, 2004, 01:32 AM

I think the Powerbooks have always been good desktop replacements depending on what you use them for. Gaming, some games yes. But I have only used laptops for over a year now and don't think I'll be bother with desktops again. I like to move between desk, couch and bed and therefore laptops are goooooood. Predictable answer: Use what suits your needs.

RooneyX · Jun 21, 2004, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by k2director:

Of course, I recently finished a big project, and rewarded myself with a Dual 2Ghz G5, and twin 23" Cinema Displays. I LOVE having all the speed, screen real estate and 500 gigs of internal drive space, so I never have to connect and power up another Firewire drive for extra video storage. But I still find myself taking my Alubook 1.25 Ghz to cafes and doing plenty of work on it. I think you'll be fine with a laptop, and love the mobility....

You are a proper show off!

Lancer409 · Jun 21, 2004, 03:52 AM

using a 12 as a desktop replacemenet while my gaming pc's monitor is being swapped under warrantee .. i love this thing .. i think my future comp will be a laptop .. i dont know if i want a bulky home computer anymore as even at home, when the gaming pc's monitor was still alive, i tended to use laptop more than home pc. the big question is whether my next laptop .. due in 2-3 years, will be a mac or pc .. lol

Andrew Stephens · Jun 21, 2004, 04:11 PM

My 1.33 15in Aibook makes a great replacement for my 1Ghz G4 desktop. Previously I also had a 667 Mhz TiBook for mobile work but the new PB does everything. i use a 22in monitor at work and also appreciate the gigabit ethernet (which the old one had too I think).
The only slight drawback I find is that being used continually and swapping often between Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark 4 (classic) the machine starts to slow down around mid afternoon and needs a restart to restore performance (but the G4 DT did this too).
I believe that these current PB's are all excellent machines that can be the only mac you need.

SEkker · Jun 22, 2004, 12:04 AM

I started owning both a DT (dual 500 G4) and a PB (Pismo, then, 667TiPB). After awhile, I'd bring my laptop in, pick up my DT keyboard to put it on my monitor, to have room to use my PB.

Eventually, I missed my larger monitor and just unplugged the DT so I could use its monitor.

This 1GHz PB17 is amazingly fast- at least twice as fast as a top of the line 667 TiPB -- and I am regularly surprised at what it CAN do.

The only time it seems slow is running some HD-intensive jobs like video editing of home slide shows in iMovie. The latest iMovie (4) has made that MUCH better, too.