[reader50]

Sign him up here. We'll be happy to provide advice on any subject, it's the internet so you know we're experts, and we charge much less.

[Laminar]

I don't know if there's a more presumptuous smiley than the winky smiley.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Trust me - it's very American. I can't think of anywhere else in the world where people are so quick to go see a counselor or a shrink of some description.

I don't get this kind of attitude - there is nothing wrong with wanting an impartial third party in any kind of situation. It's not akin to taking an antidepressant so that you don't get depressed, or Accutane so you don't get zits. Counseling is not only to deal with hard issues, nor is it only supposed to be utilized when going through an argument.

See, I view counseling more as one-on-one teaching, where you can get a lot of good input and advice from someone wiser and more experienced than you on how to deal with various issues (good, bad, and neutral) that arise in a marriage. I don't think at all that the only right or legitimate way to jump into a marriage is with zero advice and zero guidance when stuff comes up (like how you're going to manage finances and the mortgage and choosing a church and things like that).

And since the US has the highest divorce rate in the World, these counselors don't appear to be worth the money.

I'd say that the reason the US has such a high divorce rate has far, far more to do with our attitudes toward marriage and relationships and general, and little to do with who's counseling whom on what issues. It's also the reason why people claim that statistics show a direct link between cohabitation and relationship failure rates. It's not that clear-cut, however.

If you dig deeper, Western society in general has become much more lax in how they view romantic relationships - people move in for convenience (both financially and sexually), but without the requisite monogamous and serious commitment that has historically come with such a living arrangement.

People simply don't comprehend the gravity of a lifetime commitment anymore, so they get engaged and married long before they're really emotionally and psychologically ready for that kind of a relationship. The end result? They realize their mistake and get divorced three or four years later.

I'm actually surprised that people are discouraging against premarital counseling. In the Christian world, it's very common and even advised that an engaged couple go to premarital counseling through the church - it provides guidance and advice from people who simply know more about what you're getting into than you do yourself.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I don't get this kind of attitude - there is nothing wrong with wanting an impartial third party in any kind of situation. It's not akin to taking an antidepressant so that you don't get depressed, or Accutane so you don't get zits. Counseling is not only to deal with hard issues, nor is it only supposed to be utilized when going through an argument.

See, I view counseling more as one-on-one teaching, where you can get a lot of good input and advice from someone wiser and more experienced than you on how to deal with various issues (good, bad, and neutral) that arise in a marriage. I don't think at all that the only right or legitimate way to jump into a marriage is with zero advice and zero guidance when stuff comes up (like how you're going to manage finances and the mortgage and choosing a church and things like that).

Hun, if you can't work out your finances and decide which church to go to on your own without some input from a counsellor, I'm gonna give your marriage five years tops.

The point is that one of the bonds you generate in the first years of marriage comes from working this type of stuff out together, on your own. Getting someone else to help you with it weakens this bonding process. In short, for a healthy marriage you're supposed to fumble through on your own.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'm actually surprised that people are discouraging against premarital counseling. In the Christian world, it's very common and even advised that an engaged couple go to premarital counseling through the church - it provides guidance and advice from people who simply know more about what you're getting into than you do yourself.

I'm sure you meant "in the Amerikan Christian world". That sure doesn't happen in the Christian world this side of the pond.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Trust me - it's very Amerikan.

It may be uniquely American, but it's not all Americans. We've worked out our own, uh, stuff, and I think we're stronger for it. I can't imagine it would be good for our relationship to run off to the referee every time something goes unexpectedly.

[- - e r i k - -]

In concert with former Oprah Winfrey producer Ellen Rakieten, Seinfeld is producing a reality show called The Marriage Ref. The premise has real-life couples airing their marital grievances before a panel of wise-cracking celebrities and a “referee” who will determine which person is right and which is wrong. The series is tentatively scheduled to appear as part of NBC’s fall schedule.

http://www.avclub.com/articles/seinf...-excite,24386/

Only in Americ-uh™

[CreepDogg]

Apparently I'm a minority American on this one...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And since the US has the highest divorce rate in the World, these counsellors don't appear to be worth the money.

Actually: http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml

Sweden 54.9
Belarus 52.9
Finland 51.2
Luxembourg 47.4
Estonia 46.7
Australia 46
United States 45.8
Denmark 44.5
Belgium 44
Austria 43.4
Czech Republic 43.3
Russia 43.3
United Kingdom 42.6

Though I do agree with everything else you've mentioned.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

It may be uniquely American, but it's not all Americans. We've worked out our own, uh, stuff, and I think we're stronger for it. I can't imagine it would be good for our relationship to run off to the referee every time something goes unexpectedly.

Agreed, I think about 99% of the counselors/therapists out there working are complete hacks. And I am a trained counselor!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

http://www.avclub.com/articles/seinf...-excite,24386/

Only in Americ-uh™

I am EXTREMELY thankful other countries don't have to go through this kind of complete crud. Nothing like making marital difficulties humorous and making money off it.

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I am EXTREMELY thankful other countries don't have to go through this kind of complete crud. Nothing like making marital difficulties humorous and making money off it.

I was thinking the same thing, except that from what I've seen, other countries have plenty of their own crud. But yeah, I find this kind of crud neither interesting nor humorous. Suffice it to say I won't be tuning in.

[Maflynn]

so Shif, I can ask a personal question?

Is this going to be a mixed relationship/marriage, or is he a Mac fan as well

[Railroader]

Uhhh... Shif isn't a Mac fan.

[Dakar V]

I can see the divorce now... "citing irreconcilable differences - Husband was Mac User ("Fanboy" was the term his former wife used..."

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Uhhh... Shif isn't a Mac fan.

She's not ? Now I'm confused (being on a mac forum and having owned macs)

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

She's not ? Now I'm confused (being on a mac forum and having owned macs)

Have you read any of her posts before?

[Dakar V]

Wait, shif is a she?

[Maflynn]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Wait, shif is a she?

ever since the surgery

[Laminar]

Wait, shif is a Republican?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Actually: http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml

Hmmm. I was going by this:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/pe...e-divorce-rate

Heck, you know what they say about statistics.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

I was thinking the same thing, except that from what I've seen, other countries have plenty of their own crud.

Heh. We sure do.

I like the "Italian Stripping Housewives"* crud though.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Fixed that for ya.

no, I don't think you did.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

no, I don't think you did.

Fixed

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Hmmm. I was going by this:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/pe...e-divorce-rate

Heck, you know what they say about statistics.

Marriage rate, according to the same site as Doofy's if anyone is interested. Not sure how to compare/contrast the two sets of stats.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/pe...-marriage-rate

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

no, I don't think you did.

Yah, I did.

"oh no you didn't"
"oh yes I did"
"oh no you didn't"
"oh yes I did"

No surprise that divorce rates are highest in countries which are most "progressive" with regard to gender roles. Take a look at Italy, for example, where traditional roles are maintained somewhat and women still want to be women - right down there in divorce rate tables as far as modern western countries go.

As a diminutive musical bloke from Minneapolis once said: Let a woman be a woman and a man be a man.

[Dakar V]

Italy also has those hardcore Roman Catholics.

Edit: Can we find stats for most religious countries and add yet another facet to the discussion!?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Fixed

Well, Doof has to pop a at the end of everything which is slightly tongue in cheek so you humourless monkeys out there in geek land don't get all whiney and accuse The Doof of "personal attacks" and the like.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Italy also has those hardcore Roman Catholics.

...who mainly keep to traditional gender roles. ...as long as you ignore what the priests get up to.

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

Edit: Can we find stats for most religious countries and add yet another facet to the discussion!?

Wouldn't it have to be a certain type of religiousness? I mean, the US is chock full of churches yet US dating sites are also chock full of divorced church-going mothers looking for some lovin'.

[Dakar V]

I was joking about that.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Dakar V 

I was joking about that.

'Tis a valid variable though. And doesn't it somewhat fit in with the thread topic anyways?

[Dakar V]

It's a valid variable that's completely subjective.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Hun, if you can't work out your finances and decide which church to go to on your own without some input from a counsellor, I'm gonna give your marriage five years tops.

The point is that one of the bonds you generate in the first years of marriage comes from working this type of stuff out together, on your own. Getting someone else to help you with it weakens this bonding process. In short, for a healthy marriage you're supposed to fumble through on your own.

You're missing the point, either deliberately or because you're just not reading thoroughly.

Do you ask for advice on things? The first time you go to buy a house, do you ask your parents, who have done it many times before, how mortgages work and how to purchase a home to your biggest advantage, or do you just assume you know everything and dive in without researching to find out that a 20% down payment will allow you to avoid higher interest rates, escrow, and PMI?

When you decide to move to a new city, do you ask people what they think about that locale, or do you just move there without learning from people who have lived there that the south side of Chicago is a pit?

I disagree that you're supposed to fumble through life on your own without seeking guidance from those who are wiser and more experienced than yourself. The fact is, marriage is life. It's not just some small thing where if you make a big mistake, you can cut your losses and move on. It's a lifetime commitment.

You'd better believe I'm going to want some guidance on things - advice, input, what have you. My own parents' marriage was a dismal failure, so I'm not entirely sure that my mother's always going to be the best source of advice on things. It's nice to think that I could get advice from someone on an issue when I might not want to discuss it with casual friends who happen to be married. Not only that, but I'm more than a little FUBAR in the head. While I've gotten my depression well under control, there's just some sh!t I have left to work through...call me a pussy or a dirty American, but I want a little help with that. Sometimes you need a smack in the face from someone else in order to move past something.

However, my boyfriend and I have already gotten advice from our parents and several married friends on finance - that it's a good idea to have separate spending accounts so that you don't argue when one of you wants to blow some money on something stupid. Would we have figured this out on our own? Of course. Does it save a little unneeded heartache to hear advice from people who have been through it and know what they're talking about? Absolutely.

I'm amazed that people here are pushing the idea that you shouldn't want guidance from experienced, wiser people. You have people posting here for advice on what Mac to buy next, what city to move to, what jobs to look for, what classes to take to maximize employment opportunities...and those are some small changes in comparison to spending the rest of your life with someone.

There's even a thread right now from dcmacdaddy asking for marriage advice. Is that acceptable because it's the Internet, or because he's not seeking advice through a professional channel (church or a couple's therapist)?

I'm not denying that your relationship grows stronger through working out conflicts as they arise. But I'm also not viewing counseling as something just to deal with conflict. I'm viewing it as guidance in a huge life life change; another tool a married couple has for anything. both good and bad. The fact is, the two people in a marriage relationship don't always have the answers - and sometimes, those answers can be very hard to determine. I'm not insinuating that I'm going to run to the shrink every time something happens. I never said that or suggested it.

I'm sure you meant "in the Amerikan Christian world". That sure doesn't happen in the Christian world this side of the pond.

You sure about that? Go into any Protestant church and ask the senior pastor if he provides premarital Biblical counseling services. Then ask him if he recommends that couples attend a few sessions before getting married. I think you'll be surprised.

And, from that perspective, shouldn't Christians turn to the Bible for guidance on life? Wouldn't it make sense to go to a pastor who has spent the better part of his existence studying the Bible, since he can point to you to passages and teachings in the Bible on what God has to say about marriage and spouses and children, and provide insight into the deeper meaning of those passages?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Maflynn 

so Shif, I can ask a personal question?

Is this going to be a mixed relationship/marriage, or is he a Mac fan as well

His parents bought an iMac last year and are now rabid fanboys.

We both have iPhones, but neither of us are really Mac fans. We both just see the iPhone as an anomaly in Apple history.

He's a C# programmer and develops MORPGs on the side - none of the work he does, either professionally or for fun, is remotely geared toward Mac users. I don't even think the game engine he uses has a Mac client.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

You're missing the point, either deliberately or because you're just not reading thoroughly.

No, I'm not.
I simply believe your point to be the viewpoint of a person inexperienced in such matters.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Do you ask for advice on things?

Nope.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

The first time you go to buy a house, do you ask your parents, who have done it many times before, how mortgages work and how to purchase a home to your biggest advantage, or do you just assume you know everything and dive in without researching to find out that a 20% down payment will allow you to avoid higher interest rates, escrow, and PMI?

I've never had a mortgage in my life.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

When you decide to move to a new city, do you ask people what they think about that locale, or do you just move there without learning from people who have lived there that the south side of Chicago is a pit?

I just move.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

There's even a thread right now from dcmacdaddy asking for marriage advice.

?

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

You sure about that?

Yup.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Go into any Protestant church and ask the senior pastor

We call them "vicars" here. Mostly.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

And, from that perspective, shouldn't Christians turn to the Bible for guidance on life?

Yep. Which is the reason why they should avoid pastors. Unless you can find me a pastor who's biblically-correct on polygyny, that is.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

There's even a thread right now from dcmacdaddy asking for marriage advice. Is that acceptable because it's the Internet, or because he's not seeking advice through a professional channel (church or a couple's therapist)?

The marriage thread, IIRC, is for iranfromthezoo, dcmacdaddy is the "relocation" thread.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

No, I'm not.
I simply believe your point to be the viewpoint of a person inexperienced in such matters.

Ah yes, our resident marriage expert.

I just move.

Because your choice and decisions are perfectly applicable to everyone else in the world.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Ah yes, our resident marriage expert.

Resident relationship expert, thanks.

Bets are on. I'll take $10 on five years... ...unless Shif chills out, stops being so mechanical about the whole thing and just lets it happen naturally.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

The marriage thread, IIRC, is for iranfromthezoo, dcmacdaddy is the "relocation" thread.

My bad.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Resident relationship expert, thanks.

Bets are on. I'll take $10 on five years... ...unless Shif chills out, stops being so mechanical about the whole thing and just lets it happen naturally.

Thinking about the future != acting mechanically. If it is, then I'd rather be a heartless robot than a knee-jerk reactionary. It's my "acting mechanically" that has me so financially stable, and it's our mutual "acting mechanically" that's going to allow us to plan for the future so that we aren't FUBAR five or ten years from now, because we "just let it happen".

Believe me - I'm not being emotionless in this relationship. Don't draw conclusions about it based on the few things you've read in this thread.

Also worth noting is the fact that he wants some premarital guidance/counseling more than I do. I'm not just pulling this all out of my ass, nor am I making my mind up on anything without talking it over with him first.

It's pretty obvious that the standard fare for a marriage isn't working. If it was, the divorce rate wouldn't be where it is. I don't intend on doing things the way other people do them, since other people seem to fail a hell of a lot more than I do.

[MallyMal]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

stops being so mechanical about the whole thing and just lets it happen naturally.

I was thinking the same thing because some the comments she made strikes me as coming from someone who is inexperienced. It's like what she is saying is her ideal plan that she has in her head and that this dude just is along for the ride. Yes, I know shifuimam says that she and her man are on the same page but that is the impression I get from her comments.

[shifuimam]

Then I'm not representing myself well. Damn.

We've both been burned badly in relationships. We both have a pretty good idea of what actions make a relationship better, and what actions make it worse. We're in this together; it's not one-sided, nor am I trying to force any kind of ideal.

I have more experience than you might think. No, I've never been married...but that doesn't invalidate the experience I do have.

I still find it interesting that marriage is the one time everyone seems to think it's bad to look for guidance from more experienced people. Oh well. To each his own...like I said, the way that society suggests doing things simply isn't working. Not with anything - finance, education, lifestyles, relationships...I've gone against the flow my whole life, and so far, it's allowed me to do damn well for myself.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I still find it interesting that marriage is the one time everyone seems to think it's bad to look for guidance from more experienced people.

Hey, USA has got stay on top on divorce rates.

USA! USA!

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I still find it interesting that marriage is the one time everyone seems to think it's bad to look for guidance from more experienced people. Oh well.

That's because every marriage/relationship is different, but the recipe for success is pretty simple and common - understanding, communication, and mutual 'sacrifice'. 'Sacrifice' isn't really the right word - but I can't think of a better one right now. If your relationship has those things, it'll likely be in pretty good order. If you need a life coach to help you to attain them, then it's probably in trouble from the get-go.

Yours may very well be the exception, but to a lot of people, including me, this just doesn't pass the 'smell test'.

People get divorced because they couldn't get those basics right, often whether they did or didn't get counseling. I would be surprised if the divorce rate is any different for those who get premarital counseling than for those who don't. Either way, there's nothing about it that's 'going against the flow'.

It's great that you get advice on things like having separate spending accounts (actually my wife and I don't - we want to be accountable to each other for spending), but in the end those things aren't really going to make or break the relationship. If you get the basics right, you'll figure out what works for you on things like this anyway.

[Polatrite]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

His parents bought an iMac last year and are now rabid fanboys.

My poor, poor parents.

God rest their souls.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I've never had a mortgage in my life.

The natural following question: have you ever owned a house?

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I just move.

How many times have you "just moved" and how has that been working out for you? I remember many years ago when my parents and I "just moved" and ended up in a location with juveniles who destroyed my mother's 6 month old convertible. Had we not "just moved" and instead inquired with neighbors, we would have clearly understood that these same juveniles enjoy doing this to EVERY "new looking" car to the area.

Then again, I got the satisfaction of using an infrared LED array, a $40 webcam, the crafty placement of two wide angle mirrors, and motion-activated webcam software to send one of the juvees to juvee. =)

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yep. Which is the reason why they should avoid pastors. Unless you can find me a pastor who's biblically-correct on polygyny, that is.

Polygyny? Why does polygyny matter in a relationship where no polygyny will take place? A 9:1 case winning workplace injury law firm will not be equally gifted in a civil domestic abuse case. In the same manner, a pastor who is "biblically-correct" (however YOU define that - since practically every Christian defines it differently) on one issue will not necessarily be the same on others.

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Resident relationship expert, thanks.

Bets are on. I'll take $10 on five years... ...unless Shif chills out, stops being so mechanical about the whole thing and just lets it happen naturally.

Seeking advice isn't mechanical, it's intelligent. It's the entire purpose of higher education institutes to instill knowledge in young people from experienced elders in a given field. With this line of thought, one must conclude that by relation all college students are robots.

Originally Posted by MallyMal 

I was thinking the same thing because some the comments she made strikes me as coming from someone who is inexperienced. It's like what she is saying is her ideal plan that she has in her head and that this dude just is along for the ride. Yes, I know shifuimam says that she and her man are on the same page but that is the impression I get from her comments.

We are on the same page. We both want to find someone experienced and helpful to give us a little bit of insight towards marriage. Not a walkthrough, not a crutch - merely passing on some useful information interactively and contextually (not a book) to help us on the journey.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Then I'm not representing myself well. Damn.

We've both been burned badly in relationships. We both have a pretty good idea of what actions make a relationship better, and what actions make it worse. We're in this together; it's not one-sided, nor am I trying to force any kind of ideal.

I have been previously engaged, to say the least. I think that certainly counts for something in the experience department.

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I have more experience than you might think. No, I've never been married...but that doesn't invalidate the experience I do have.

I still find it interesting that marriage is the one time everyone seems to think it's bad to look for guidance from more experienced people. Oh well. To each his own...like I said, the way that society suggests doing things simply isn't working. Not with anything - finance, education, lifestyles, relationships...I've gone against the flow my whole life, and so far, it's allowed me to do damn well for myself.

Damn well for yourself is certainly an understatement, too.

[Polatrite]

Just to clarify my above post: I am shifuimam's worser half, if it was not clear from the first sentence. In addition, I would like to say that there are NO significant problems in the relationship, besides the fact that I have outrageously bad foot odor and she keeps trying to feed me ice cream and make me fat. I just don't have that gorgeous metabolism you do, shiffy! =P

This is to say that there is no reason to seek any kind of help now, in the same way that there is no reason to perform regular maintenance on your car. You could just wait till it breaks down, pay twice the price to get it repaired, and be without it for a few days in the process.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

That's because every marriage/relationship is different, but the recipe for success is pretty simple and common - understanding, communication, and mutual 'sacrifice'. 'Sacrifice' isn't really the right word - but I can't think of a better one right now. If your relationship has those things, it'll likely be in pretty good order. If you need a life coach to help you to attain them, then it's probably in trouble from the get-go.

Yours may very well be the exception, but to a lot of people, including me, this just doesn't pass the 'smell test'.

People are different. Notice how we claim that there are lots of different ways students learn? The education system is attempting to evolve with this concept so that we can maximize the learning potential in individual students. While each relationship is different, the fundamentals of any successful interpersonal relationship (even platonic ones) remain the same.

I know the basics. I've learned a lot of that by watching the marriages of my parents and other couples get sucked into the abyss of divorce.

Think about it this way: given enough time, a child will eventually teach himself how to read. However, if that's the way his parents go (which is too common in the BS "unschooling" movement), he might not learn to read until he's ten years old. Given some guidance and teaching, he'll learn by the time he's five.

Personally, I'd rather "learn to read" sooner than later. It'll make life that much sweeter. I don't claim to know everything about a marriage - not even the basics. Nobody has all the answers ready in one neat package. He knows some stuff, I know some stuff, we both know some of the same stuff, but there's always more out there to learn, and I'd rather have people there to encourage us and help us on this path rather than trying to fend for ourselves the entire time.

People get divorced because they couldn't get those basics right, often whether they did or didn't get counseling. I would be surprised if the divorce rate is any different for those who get premarital counseling than for those who don't. Either way, there's nothing about it that's 'going against the flow'.

Absolutely.

See, one of the things that nobody here knows is that I have sworn up and down since I was nine years old (the first time my parents' marriage crapped out) that I would never get married. I didn't want the risk of heartache. Even after I met guys who seemed fantastic, I was still extremely averse to the concept. I knew what the basics were, and it seemed to me that it wasn't worth the trouble.

This isn't something I'm considering lightly, nor is it something I'm going to jump into without being prepared. He is much the same way. Knowing the basics is critical before you say "I do".

It's great that you get advice on things like having separate spending accounts (actually my wife and I don't - we want to be accountable to each other for spending), but in the end those things aren't really going to make or break the relationship. If you get the basics right, you'll figure out what works for you on things like this anyway.

I disagree. When you have too many seemingly "little things" like finance stack up on each other, it esplodes into one enormous mess of resentment and animosity. It was all the "little things" that made my parents hate each other more and more over time, and it was that animosity that drove my father to repeated counts of infidelity. It wasn't just because they weren't banging enough.

Depending on how important those things are to one or both individuals in the relationship, major disparity in them can make or break it.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Polatrite 

Polygyny? Why does polygyny matter in a relationship where no polygyny will take place? A 9:1 case winning workplace injury law firm will not be equally gifted in a civil domestic abuse case. In the same manner, a pastor who is "biblically-correct" (however YOU define that - since practically every Christian defines it differently) on one issue will not necessarily be the same on others.

Because a pastor that disagrees with Doofy's view of polygamy is stupid, wrong, and doesn't understand the One True Interpretation™ of Scripture that Doofy definitely does.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Polatrite 

Just to clarify my above post: I am shifuimam's worser half, if it was not clear from the first sentence. In addition, I would like to say that there are NO significant problems in the relationship, besides the fact that I have outrageously bad foot odor and she keeps trying to feed me ice cream and make me fat. I just don't have that gorgeous metabolism you do, shiffy! =P

Care to share your thoughts on the piercings? Any effect on perkiness/usability/function that you've seen?

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Resident relationship expert, thanks.

Bets are on. I'll take $10 on five years... ...unless Shif chills out, stops being so mechanical about the whole thing and just lets it happen naturally.

In reading back on this thread, I also realized something else.

Doof, wasn't it you who PMed me late last November offering to provide some advice on how to snag someone?

How in the world is that different from looking for guidance in a marriage?

[Polatrite]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Care to share your thoughts on the piercings? Any effect on perkiness/usability/function that you've seen?

+3 perkiness
-4 usability (still healing)
+1 function

Overall: positive(ly amazing)

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I disagree. When you have too many seemingly "little things" like finance stack up on each other, it esplodes into one enormous mess of resentment and animosity. It was all the "little things" that made my parents hate each other more and more over time, and it was that animosity that drove my father to repeated counts of infidelity. It wasn't just because they weren't banging enough.

I think you miss my point. If that happens, then you aren't getting the basics right. IIf you're communicating and working with each other, 'little things' don't pile up, they get resolved. My parents are divorced too -- infidelity, etc. was involved. It wasn't because things were 'piling up' - it was because they didn't get the basics right.

Oh, and where did I say getting the basics right had anything to do with 'banging enough'? That's another thing that's a result of getting the basics right -- it's not one of the basics. And if you need counseling with that, well, you've got more trouble than you think.

Depending on how important those things are to one or both individuals in the relationship, major disparity in them can make or break it.

And if there's such a wide disparity in so many things, do you think counseling will save the relationship? Seems to me that'd be just postponing the inevitable...