[Ryan Becker]

Sweet, I think this game is gonna rock!

Can't wait to get home and play it!

http://www.macgamefiles.com/detail.php?item=18214

-Ryan

[AKcrab]

Holy slow downloads batman!

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Holy slow downloads batman!

Beat me to it! Sloooooowwwwwww....

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Beat me to it! Sloooooowwwwwww....

Yeah, tell me about it!

I'm downloading here at work but sending it to my home computer, so I'm getting about 5.6kb/s. About and hour to go still, so it should be good to go by the time I get home.

-Ryan

[Dex13]

If you guys want I can give you the link to the Bit Torrent File
Here

[Caesar2099]

Well disappointing just like all the reviews said. The cell shaded and comic effects are cool, but they get annoying fast. I mean this only a demo and I'm already sick of it. The full game might be better, but so far this is a disappointment.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Caesar2099:
Well disappointing just like all the reviews said. The cell shaded and comic effects are cool, but they get annoying fast. I mean this only a demo and I'm already sick of it. The full game might be better, but so far this is a disappointment.

I agree. I thought with 'thousands of colors' it would run at my 17" LCD native res: 1280x1024. Nope. Ran like crap.
I tried some lower resolutions and the game ran well, but it *looked* like crap.

Not impressed.

G4 867, 32MB GeForce2MX, 17" LCD.

[Thinine]

What did you expect with your crappy video card?

[cszar2001]

Not bad.
But I prefer Call of Duty.

[sideus]

Interesting. I get a "Object not found!" error.

[The Placid Casual]

Um, doesn't seem to like my G5 at all.

5 attempted runs. 5 system wide crashes.

[madmacgames]

hmm.. I'm quite disappointed with the performance on my 1GHz 12" powerbook. At 800x600 (and anti-aliasing turned off) it was still too jerky to be playable (frame rate seemed pretty erratic). Had to go to 640x480 to really be able to do anything.

[Luca Rescigno]

Sometimes I wish game companies would host their games and demos themselves instead of always shooting them off to Planet Mirror or Ausmac, both of which suck. Needless to say, I do NOT have the demo right now. Based on what people are saying, I suppose I never will (unless I get a PC).

[proton]

The main problem that AusMac has is that while they have plenty of bandwidth on their machines, the ISP they're connected to limits overseas bandwidth. In Australia I get up to about 500k/s from AusMac, but to a US box only about 15-30k/s.

If anyone has contacts with Comindico to get them to fix the overseas bandwidth limits you'd all be getting much better speeds...

- proton

[Ryan Becker]

Yeah, big big big disappointment!

I think the game looks great, and I think I would really enjoy it, but it is completely unplayable on my iMac, which meats the exact minimum requirements. Well, they need to adjust their requirements, because an 800mhz G4 and a 32mb vid card just don't cut it.

Even at the lowest settings (I wonder if there are more performance settings in the full version!?), it lags so bad that the audio would get skipping, and when more than one enemy was on the screen, the game would jump all over the place, making me look straight up at the sky for no reason at all. I have yet to even be able to make it thru either of the levels because of the lag.

Man, what a bummer, I was SO excited about this game....



-Ryan

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Thinine:
What did you expect with your crappy video card?

Requirements
� Mac OS 10.2.3 (Yep)
� PowerPC G3/G4 700 Mhz (Yep)
� 256 Mb RAM (Yep)
� Hardware accelerated 3D Graphics Card with 32 Mb VRAM (Yep)
� DVD Drive (Yep)
� 1.6 Gb free hard disk space (Yep)
� Mouse and Keyboard (Yep)
� QuickTime 6 (Yep)

I "expect" the game to run smooth and look good.
It doesn't. Glad they offered a demo.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I "expect" the game to run smooth and look good.
It doesn't. Glad they offered a demo.

FWIS, it's poorly optimized. The graphic engine is based on Unreal Engine so I'm not sure why it doesn't run as good as UT2k3 does.

[a2daj]

How often do games run perfectly smooth on games meeting the minimum requirements. For me, the game runs about as well as UT2K4. Also keep in mind that although the game is based on the Unreal Engine II, there's obviously been some engine modifications to the graphics engine (if you don't see them, you're blind ). I played the game on my TiBook 800 (Mobility Radeon 7500 32 MB) and it ran about as well as I expected. The demo was playable for me for a single player game. I have a 1 MB L3 cache in the system so that could make a difference with that engine. Of course, "playable" is completely subjective.

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:


FWIS, it's poorly optimized. The graphic engine is based on Unreal Engine so I'm not sure why it doesn't run as good as UT2k3 does.

it's based on the unreal engine, but it was modified a great deal.

-r.

[Nivag]

the full game runs well on my mac - G4 933Mhz, 1.25Gb, GeForce4 MX - i've only play the first level so far, but i can see this game getting boring, too many prompts telling you what to do and where to go.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by a2daj:
How often do games run perfectly smooth on games meeting the minimum requirements. For me, the game runs about as well as UT2K4. Also keep in mind that although the game is based on the Unreal Engine II, there's obviously been some engine modifications to the graphics engine (if you don't see them, you're blind ). I played the game on my TiBook 800 (Mobility Radeon 7500 32 MB) and it ran about as well as I expected. The demo was playable for me for a single player game. I have a 1 MB L3 cache in the system so that could make a difference with that engine. Of course, "playable" is completely subjective.

Huh? I don't see any engine modifications?..

I know "playable" is completely subjective but XIII in general feel choppy, even on my bro's G5 1.8

This demo just further my belief that Feral Interactive/Zonic are not talented in performance optimizing area.

[a2daj]

I usually run my games on my dual proc 1.2 GHz Quicksilver with a Radeon 9800 Pro and the XIII demo ran just fine. I'd say it's almost as optimized as UT2K3&4 are on my machine. It seems to run a bit better than Raven Shield. I'm not sure what audio API they're using, but if they're using SoundManager, then maybe they might be able to squeeze a few percentage points by using a CoreAudio based solution.

[KrazyEvilGoat]

Bit jerky. Got it playable. Crashes a fair bit.

I don't like the weapons, I don't like the targeting "dot". Very annoying since many of the weapons are extraordinarily inaccurate. Enemies are stupid, to say the least.

I liked call of duty much better.

[calumr]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Um, doesn't seem to like my G5 at all.

5 attempted runs. 5 system wide crashes.

If anyone is having issues with the XIII Demo could they please contact [email protected], and we will endeavor to fix any issues you may have.

We are fairly certain that there is an issue with G5s and nVidia 5200 cards. We are currently testing a fix, and hope to have a new version out as soon as possible.

[calumr]

After some investigation it appears that there was an issue with nVidia 5200 cards that caused them to hang, or even crash on single processor G5 systems. We have a fix for the issue, and hope to release version 1.0.1 of the XIII demo shortly.

However, if you want to avoid the wait and are confident enough to use the Terminal application, we have written a Perl script that will modify the preferences for the XIII demo to work around the crash:

http://www.zonic.co.uk/games/xiii/XIII-5200-fix.pl

If you save this file into your home directory and run "perl XIII-5200-fix.pl" from the Terminal, that should patch your existing preferences files and let you run XIII without crashing. If you don't feel confident enough to do this, then you can always wait for the updated demo version to be released (which should be available once we have completed some more testing).

[RooneyX]

It's a bit jerky on a 1Ghx G4, Calum. It's a nice game but I'd like to see an updated demo so we can use a bit higher resolution and get smoother frames rates on a machine with a 1Ghz cpu and 64MB Geforce 4MX.

[a2daj]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
It's a bit jerky on a 1Ghx G4, Calum. It's a nice game but I'd like to see an updated demo so we can use a bit higher resolution and get smoother frames rates on a machine with a 1Ghz cpu and 64MB Geforce 4MX.

There's not much that can be done with a GF4MX. Those cards are pretty slow regardless of how much VRAM is on them.

[RooneyX]

Originally posted by a2daj:
There's not much that can be done with a GF4MX. Those cards are pretty slow regardless of how much VRAM is on them.

So how come far better looking games like UT2003, Medal or Honor and Call of Duty run much better at high resolutions and throwing around more polygons? Does cell tracing take up more cycles than detailed texture maps, high polygon counts, particles, bump maps and transparency effects?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:


FWIS, it's poorly optimized. The graphic engine is based on Unreal Engine so I'm not sure why it doesn't run as good as UT2k3 does.

Ya I beta tested it and try as they might they couldn't make XIII run nearly as well as UT2003. In fact on the 12" PB I tested it on it was never playable. Fun game but hey. Can't play it unless you have the video card of death or something.

The PeeCee version of XIII runs like butter on a NVidia MX2 (more than 150 fps) while on the Mac a 5200 is barely sufficient (ca 50 fps).

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by voodoo:
Ya I beta tested it and try as they might they couldn't make XIII run nearly as well as UT2003. In fact on the 12" PB I tested it on it was never playable. Fun game but hey. Can't play it unless you have the video card of death or something.

The PeeCee version of XIII runs like butter on a NVidia MX2 (more than 150 fps) while on the Mac a 5200 is barely sufficient (ca 50 fps).

well, it was playable enough on my 800 mhz G3 ibook for me to finish the game.

-r.

[Dair Grant]

The PeeCee version of XIII runs like butter on a NVidia MX2 (more than 150 fps) while on the Mac a 5200 is barely sufficient (ca 50 fps).

I've just tried running the PC version on a 2Ghz Dell with an FX5200 - it gets about 75fps, dropping down to 40fps when in a big firefight (e.g., the main control room in the stop-code-red level).

Granted it stayed around 75fps fairly consistently, which makes me suspect it's capped, but I find 150+fps pretty unlikely for a card as old as the 2MX.

This demo just further my belief that Feral Interactive/Zonic are not talented in performance optimizing area.

As Feral are a publisher, you'll be referring to Zonic.

The demo for XIII is based on a fork of the XIII code that was made before the game itself went GM. This means that while it's representative of gameplay, it is not identical to the code in the GM version (for either Mac or PC). This is not something that can be changed for the Mac - while on some projects the demo version is simply a cut-down version of the full project, on XIII it was developed in parallel (and the code diverged enough to make merging impossible).

We take optimisation very seriously, and always spend time at the end of a project to try and wring whatever else we can out of it - that's simply a fact of life for porting games to the Mac, as gaming Macs tend to lag behind their PC counterparts.

If you're seeing performance which is making the game literally unplayable, and you're within the minimum specs, please let us know (xiiisupport AT zonic.co.uk) and we'll try and set up an equivalent system to verify it. Performance problems of this kind (e.g., running at 1fps and unable to look down) typically indicate a bug - as the demo code is a fork from the main game, it's quite possible that such a bug could slip through.

E.g., the problems with the FX5200 are a driver bug (if your entire system dies, it's 99.9% certain that it's due to the video card driver: that's really the only way for an application to take down the machine on X) which is only tripped in the demo code. Since this does not affect the retail version of the game, which is where the majority of QA was performed, we didn't spot it prior to releasing the demo.


-dair
Zonic
http://www.zonic.co.uk/games/

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by rjenkinson:
well, it was playable enough on my 800 mhz G3 ibook for me to finish the game.

-r.

Really!? Are you talking about the demo or the full game?

Because, the demo is so laggy I can't even pass one level on my 800mhz G4 iMac!

I'm hoping the full game runs better, and hopefully that is what you are referring to.

I know that the Call of Duty demo is laggier than the full game, so hopefully that's the case with XIII too.

-Ryan

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Dair Grant:
If you're seeing performance which is making the game literally unplayable, and you're within the minimum specs, please let us know (xiiisupport AT zonic.co.uk) and we'll try and set up an equivalent system to verify it. Performance problems of this kind (e.g., running at 1fps and unable to look down) typically indicate a bug - as the demo code is a fork from the main game, it's quite possible that such a bug could slip through.
-dair
Zonic

Well, I guess I better send an email....

I have the very first generation G4 iMac, which fits the exact minimum reqs:

800mhz G4 and 32mb Geforce2MX

I even have a User I have set up specifically for gaming to ensure as much resources as possible for the game. So, I know it's not something running in the background, or anything like that. I have tried the game at several different settings, even at the lowest resolution and 16bit color.

The game gets lagging so bad that I have yet to be able to even pass the first level on the demo... the beach boardwalk, I forget what it's called. The lagging starts during the intro sequence before the game even becomes playable. First, the audio gets skipping and sounds/words start playing in duplicate. Then it kind of calms down and I can play the first two guys no problem. But, once I go outside and make my way down the boardwalk, it gets worse and worse. When it gets to the part where the boat comes in and there are 2-3 enemies on the screen, it's completely unplayable, and there's certainly no way I could ever aim at the enemy. My guy would look straight up at the sky for no reason and then suddenly to one side, etc. At the same time the game would completely pause for a second or two here and there... basically it was a complete mess.

Do you think there could be any relation to the bug that UT2004 had where audio on single processor machines would make the game lag to an unplayable point? Because, this really reminds me of the one attempt I made to run the first release of the UT2004 demo... that was BAD!

-Ryan

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
I have tried the game at several different settings, even at the lowest resolution and 16bit color.

The game gets lagging so bad that I have yet to be able to even pass the first level on the demo... the beach boardwalk, I forget what it's called. The lagging starts during the intro sequence before the game even becomes playable. First, the audio gets skipping and sounds/words start playing in duplicate. Then it kind of calms down and I can play the first two guys no problem. But, once I go outside and make my way down the boardwalk, it gets worse and worse. When it gets to the part where the boat comes in and there are 2-3 enemies on the screen, it's completely unplayable, and there's certainly no way I could ever aim at the enemy. My guy would look straight up at the sky for no reason and then suddenly to one side, etc. At the same time the game would completely pause for a second or two here and there... basically it was a complete mess.

You have *exactly* described what play was like for me (down to the opening audio stutter), and I have the same graphics card.

G4867, GeForce 2MX 32MB.

[Diggory Laycock]

I bought XIII for the PS2 last Christmas - nice style - but very short (or easy - not sure which.)

I finished it within a few days.

[Pauldunlop]

OK. Is it just me or is there also a gameplay bug in the demo. Performance wise, I'm not having any problems, but on the second level, when you pick the cell lock to get Carrington out, I pick the lock, and then I can't do anything. The lock pick timer thing runs done, the door lock is picked, and then I can't move, open the door, anything. I can switch weapons, but very odd switching behaviour, and I can't fire them. I can look around the room, but I can't move or anything. Anyone else had this?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by rjenkinson:
well, it was playable enough on my 800 mhz G3 ibook for me to finish the game.

-r.

It wasn't playable for me on a PB G4 867 MHz. By playable I mean a game that doesn't drive you nuts because of stutterings and random slowdowns.

[Gul Banana]

The game runs perfectly on my 15" aluminium powerbook. If you expect to run modern games on ancient hardware (A geforce 2mx is literally 1/16th as fast as, for example, a 9700 Mobility) and have them run fast, you will be sorely disappointed.

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
The game runs perfectly on my 15" aluminium powerbook. If you expect to run modern games on ancient hardware (A geforce 2mx is literally 1/16th as fast as, for example, a 9700 Mobility) and have them run fast, you will be sorely disappointed.

I don't expect the game to run fast but I expect the game to be playable on the hardware it is advertised for. Simple eh?

The MX2 is waaaaaaay more powerful than XIII needs. Just ask any PeeCee user that is playing XIII. No the slowdowns happen in certain situations like when some weapons are applied and sometimes in random situations. That is how it is for me anyway.

I never said this was a bad game or anything like that, but in my experience it simply doesn't cut it on the 12" PB 867MHz. �De acuerdo?

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Gul Banana:
The game runs perfectly on my 15" aluminium powerbook. If you expect to run modern games on ancient hardware (A geforce 2mx is literally 1/16th as fast as, for example, a 9700 Mobility) and have them run fast, you will be sorely disappointed.

Bologne... I can play Call Of Duty just fine on my "ancient hardware."

-Ryan

[deadpuppet]

this game ran pretty crappy for me too. If it had run well I might have liked it.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by deadpuppet:
this game ran pretty crappy for me too. If it had run well I might have liked it.

Heck, if it ran well, I would have BOUGHT it!

Too bad for me, and for them...

-Ryan

[deadpuppet]

If a game sucks its not good for anyone

[- - e r i k - -]

This just goes to show that companies should do a lot more care when producing their demos. I understand the need to sometimes use pre-release code to get it shipped out of the door for release time, but sometimes (as just demonstrated) this can hurt more than it gains the company, as users generally use the demo to test for performance as well as gameplay (not knowing that the demo might not reflect the finished product).

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
This just goes to show that companies should do a lot more care when producing their demos. I understand the need to sometimes use pre-release code to get it shipped out of the door for release time, but sometimes (as just demonstrated) this can hurt more than it gains the company, as users generally use the demo to test for performance as well as gameplay (not knowing that the demo might not reflect the finished product).

Excellent point!

For example, the demo of Call Of Duty is much slower than the full version. If I had played the CoD demo first, I might not have bought the full game. Fortunately, I bought the full game first based on reviews of other users with similar hardware.

If someone can tell me for sure that the full version of XIII is running well on hardware similar to mine, I would still consider buying it. But, if it's anything near the performance of the demo, I would never be able to complete the game.

-Ryan

[urrl78]

Is this 1st or third person? Downloading now onto my 1.5 Ghz 17" so I expect it will run well. For those that had it run well, did you enjoy it?

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by urrl78:
Is this 1st or third person? Downloading now onto my 1.5 Ghz 17" so I expect it will run well. For those that had it run well, did you enjoy it?

It's first person.

-Ryan

[Sydney Tsai]

Originally posted by Dair Grant:
We take optimisation very seriously, and always spend time at the end of a project to try and wring whatever else we can out of it - that's simply a fact of life for porting games to the Mac, as gaming Macs tend to lag behind their PC counterparts.

-dair
Zonic
http://www.zonic.co.uk/games/ [/B]

Why bother to port it to mac then...?
Get on work dude.

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Sydney Tsai:
Why bother to port it to mac then...?
Get on work dude.

WTF? "Get on work dude."?!??!

As for "Why bother to port it to mac then...?" If every porting company took this stance then we'd have very little ported.

[Dair Grant]

If you're having performance problems with the XIII demo, please make sure you're running version 1.0.1 rather than 1.0 - this version includes a couple of fixes for some video cards (e.g., the FX 5200 in some G5s).

If you're still hitting serious performance problems with that version, please send us an ASP report at xiiisupport AT zonic.co.uk. We are trying to reproduce this problem in-house so we can identify exactly what's going on - the best way to do that is to collect your system information, so we can see if there's a common factor (OS version, video card, driver, etc).

The fact that performance varies so dramatically for some people does point to it being an OS problem (as they're both running the same game executable). Which isn't to say we won't be able to work around it, but to do that we need as much information as possible about your system.


-dair
http://www.zonic.co.uk/games/