[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Look at this way, if Apple goes back to 1990s level of marketshare and leadership, we'll be the underdogs again and MacNN will be useful.

I'm not sure that would be a good trade off.

[freudling]

Why do so many people just recycle what they read? Manufacturing fear and consent anyone? So many people, including most of you, are simply products of the media. Of what they're saying.

Why should anyone put faith in the party line "Steve has built a great company with a deep bench".

Let's get something clear right now. There is no Apple without Steve Jobs. Period. It doesn't exist. If you believe there is it's sad.

The only thing that Tim Cook, Scott Forstall, and others are, are shells of Steve Jobs. These people are dorks. Socially inept, sheltered, children.

Apple doesn't need shells. They need a fearless leader who is DIFFERENT AND BETTER THAN STEVE JOBS, not his left overs. A person who has learned his own lessons in life. Struggle. Courage. Someone who is being motivated by so much more than just the current "party line". Someone who doesn't give a shit about what anybody thinks. A rebel.

Steve is a maniac. He pushes people to their brink. He is relentless. Nobody there is like that.

I'll say it again: Apple's delays with iOS 5 and the iPhone 5 are the first signs of the slow down. This is just the beginning.

Apple will slowly but surely lose ground and focus without Steve.

I don't care if this comes off as too negative, we can revisit my comments in a few years and see where we are at.

[ort888]

You sure like to think in extremes.

You are also basing your opinions on the media. No one but the board members of Apple really knows. And hell, they probably don't know either.

[Waragainstsleep]

Get a grip. How the hell do you know everything about every Apple executive? Do you work there? I have to assume not since you're on here mouthing off against the entire company bar Jobs.

You can't pretend to know any of these people from a few minutes here and there at various keynotes. And socially inept children don't tend to give product demos for men like Steve Jobs.

Jobs doesn't design products or write software, he critiques, approves or axes.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eug 

AAPL has picked up since yesterday. It's down only about 2.5% pre-market.

Yeah, I was hoping for more emotion. Very disappointing.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Why do so many people just recycle what they read? Manufacturing fear and consent anyone? So many people, including most of you, are simply products of the media. Of what they're saying.

Why should anyone put faith in the party line "Steve has built a great company with a deep bench".

Let's get something clear right now. There is no Apple without Steve Jobs. Period. It doesn't exist. If you believe there is it's sad.

The only thing that Tim Cook, Scott Forstall, and others are, are shells of Steve Jobs. These people are dorks. Socially inept, sheltered, children.

Apple doesn't need shells. They need a fearless leader who is DIFFERENT AND BETTER THAN STEVE JOBS, not his left overs. A person who has learned his own lessons in life. Struggle. Courage. Someone who is being motivated by so much more than just the current "party line". Someone who doesn't give a shit about what anybody thinks. A rebel.

Steve is a maniac. He pushes people to their brink. He is relentless. Nobody there is like that.

I'll say it again: Apple's delays with iOS 5 and the iPhone 5 are the first signs of the slow down. This is just the beginning.

Apple will slowly but surely lose ground and focus without Steve.

I don't care if this comes off as too negative, we can revisit my comments in a few years and see where we are at.

Calm down. Unplug and go get a cookie or something. Apple will be fine.

[Big Mac]

Wow, freudling has clearly lost it.

[nukunukoo]

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Telling of what? If you decided to spend the rest of your life motorboating pretty young ladies, you wouldn't be able to meet the duties and expectations expected of a large company's CEO either.

You guys are way too negative.

About his health, we're just being realistic. He has had cancer. A lower grade type (likely a well-differentiated neuroendocrine tumour), but cancer nonetheless. He has had to get a liver transplant because of it. He has taken medical leave for it. And he's looking very gaunt.

Considering all of that, along with his letter, it'd be very, very foolish to believe that his health isn't a significant component of the reason he stepped down. In fact, I've said it before that I am somewhat surprised he didn't step down as CEO permanently years ago, considering his health issues.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I'll say it again: Apple's delays with iOS 5 and the iPhone 5 are the first signs of the slow down. This is just the beginning.

What delays? iOS 5 is still on schedule and moving right along. Apple has their own release schedule that they can follow for iPhones. There is no rule that says they have to come out with a new iPhone every spring.

[Eug]

Indeed. When these products start to mature, it's reasonable that the upgrade cycles take longer, esp. as hardware sales are still good.

Two good examples of this are iOS 4, quite a mature smartphone OS, and Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, quite a mature computer OS.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Wow, freudling has clearly lost it.

Well I'm upset. I believe deeply everything I have written. Yes, I could be wrong.

I was crying this morning walking to work. I don't feel good. What more can I say.

I'm depressed.

[Lateralus]

You walk to work? What country are you from?

[The Final Dakar]

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

You walk to work? What country are you from?

Canada. 3 feet of snow this morning.

[ort888]

Uphill both ways?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

What delays? iOS 5 is still on schedule and moving right along. Apple has their own release schedule that they can follow for iPhones. There is no rule that says they have to come out with a new iPhone every spring.

My thought too. Didn't they announce months ago that iOS 5 is scheduled for this fall and that iPhone 4S, or whatever, will be out at the same time?

[Eug]

Jobs has his name on 313 Apple patents.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My thought too. Didn't they announce months ago that iOS 5 is scheduled for this fall and that iPhone 4S, or whatever, will be out at the same time?

Not quite.

There has been no announcement of any sort regarding a new iPhone.

iOS has been demoed and is scheduled for "this fall", but the idea that a new iPhone will be released alongside is just speculation. Very very likely, but speculative.

FWIW, freudling:

I'm sure that, had Steve Jobs been fully in command, he would have found a way to stop the earthquake from happening, or at least, given his weakened state, from affecting supply chains (including the destruction of Apple's primary supplier of camera lenses), but you're right:

That the iPhone release was NOT released at the time of year we are accustomed to is obviously a "delay" (since, surely, internal release plans are ruled by seasons, and not by actual development) from some never-acknowledged schedule (how can something be delayed to the public that hasn't been announced yet?), and even if this wasn't planned (how could it be? iPhones have ALWAYS been released in summer, since time immemorable!), then Shirley, it's obvious that Steve alone could have stopped it from happening!

Apple is DOOMED.

I'll settle for "beleaguered", for now, but Shirley, DOOMED!

BTW: Was there ever a sensible reason why iPhones and iPods weren't released at the same event, especially given the latter's receding importance?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

My thought too. Didn't they announce months ago that iOS 5 is scheduled for this fall and that iPhone 4S, or whatever, will be out at the same time?

They didn't announce anything about the next generation iPhone (But WSJ and many sources are saying it'll be the iPhone 5 and a low-priced 8 Gb iPhone 4 in September/October), but they did promise iOS 5 to come out "this fall." The 6th beta just came out, and by most accounts it seems bug-free. I'm sure the GM is right around the corner, it wouldn't surprise me if they are able to ship it early actually. Everyone's guess is that they'll wait for the iPhone 5 to release iOS 5 though.

Also, I think the smartphone market has begun to slow slightly in terms of generational technology gaps. There was a huge difference between the iPhone and the iPhone 3G and the iPhone 3GS and the iPhone 4. There really isn't a ton of new technology that has come to market to add to the iPhone 5, apart from maybe LTE and a dual-core processor. Given that iPhone 5 prototype batteries have been found though, and were the same size as iPhone 4 batteries, LTE and dual-core likely won't make this revision. HSPA+ probably, but not LTE. And since iOS on the iPhone is built for basically one single architecture and optimized 100% for the hardware, the advantages of dual-core in everyday usage probably won't be as profound as it is in Android where some OEMs like Nvidia have actually come out and said that there is almost a necessity for Android phones to be dual-core and have a killer GPU simply to run manufacturer's skins smoothly.

[ort888]

The receding importance of the iPod is a pretty new thing.

I think the iPods we have now are going to stick around for a while, so there probably won't be another iPod event... possibly ever.

New iPod Touches will probably just debut next to the iPhones every year.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Well I'm upset. I believe deeply everything I have written. Yes, I could be wrong.

I was crying this morning walking to work. I don't feel good. What more can I say.

I'm depressed.

Crying? Seriously?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The receding importance of the iPod is a pretty new thing.

I think the iPods we have now are going to stick around for a while, so there probably won't be another iPod event... possibly ever.

New iPod Touches will probably just debut next to the iPhones every year.

Well it's not like the slowing sales of the iPod have been negative for Apple, it's just that most people are replacing them with iPod touches or iPhones.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The receding importance of the iPod is a pretty new thing.

I think the iPods we have now are going to stick around for a while, so there probably won't be another iPod event... possibly ever.

New iPod Touches will probably just debut next to the iPhones every year.

Yep.

New iPods aren't going to make a big media splash anymore.

So it makes sense to bundle iPhone/iPod release events into one.

For all we know, Apple were planning to do exactly this should it ever become obvious that iPhone was supplanting iPods in the market — which it is.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Crying? Seriously?

What do you want to hear bess? I could lie and say I feel good. Is that what you want to hear? Ok, I feel great.

Honesty isn't a virtue around here...

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by freudling 

What do you want to hear bess? I could lie and say I feel good. Is that what you want to hear? Ok, I feel great.

Honesty isn't a virtue around here...

I'm genuinely sorry that you feel as miserable as you do, but maybe this is an opportunity to regroup? IMHO no company should have enough power over anybody to bring on tears, unless they are tears of frustration and that company happens to be Comcast or something.

Besides, strong leadership is necessary to provide structure, direction, and future planning, but at this point Apple needs to simply maintain course and keep on keeping on. The keep on keeping on part is about execution, and having the right people to execute which Apple evidently has. It will be fine at least for a while. Jobs' involvement over the last several years or so could very well be overstated anyway.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Get a grip.

Or a PC. Jeez.

They're not that bad.

[ironknee]

i think moving the intro of the iPhone 4s to the fall is a marketing move...right around the corner from xmas..

anyways, it's sad

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Well I'm upset. I believe deeply everything I have written. Yes, I could be wrong.

I was crying this morning walking to work. I don't feel good. What more can I say.

I'm depressed.

You're that depressed that Jobs has stepped down apparently over poor health? I think you may need an anti-depressant, bro.

freudling, I think you're far overestimating the effect of Jobs' reduced role at Apple. Jobs is an outstanding technological visionary, an excellent salesman and a very strong chief executive. There's no doubt about any of that. His return to Apple and what he's been able to accomplish in the second era of his Apple leadership is legendary. But he didn't do it alone. Apple didn't just get a CEO when it bought NeXT, it also brought over tremendously talented people who were key to Apple's resurgence. Jobs may have had a lot of contributions to the design of products, but if you think he was the only driving force or the sole difference between failure and success, you're giving him far more credit than he's due.

Jobs may have had strong input and served as a strong source of inspiration and support for the various Apple teams that made the computers and devices that changed the world, but others did most of the heavy lifting of design and engineering that made those projects a reality. Jobs is one of a kind - that's why he's had such a profound impact - but Apple has seen this period long in coming and has a whole infrastructure devoted to training people to think and lead more like Jobs. I think Business Week or a similar paper had a large article on it.

And I think you're really selling a lot of talented professionals short if you think Apple doesn't have the talent to continue on creating and innovating in a similar pattern once Jobs is gone. This isn't the same Apple as in the mid-80s to mid 90s when the company was so grossly mismanaged without Jobs and almost completely lacked vision and marketing acumen, a company on the verge of death before his return. Apple is the most valuable corporation in the US, Apple products will continue to sell like hotcakes (even the iPhone 4 which is dated hardware now is still selling very strongly), and the iPhone 5 is undoubtedly going to make smart phone sales history very soon. I also think you're selling Jobs himself short if you have no faith that he has helped put the resources in place to ensure that Apple succeeds in the future without him.

Don't get me wrong, I have always massively been on Team Jobs. I was ecstatic when he made his triumphant return to save Apple, and I've bought in most always (with some notable exceptions) to his vision for the future of Apple products. I am very sorry that he had to make the difficult decision to give up his position. It is the end of an era. But nonetheless he's just one man. An exceptional man, but only a man. People revere him to such a degree that it bears a strong resemblance to certain well known religions, if you catch my drift. Apple will continue on post-Jobs.

Now maybe you're right - maybe Jobs is indispensable to Apple's success. Maybe Apple won't have a creative thought left in its collective brain trust without him. Maybe part of the psychic attractiveness of Apple products is the power of his marketing and his RDF. Perhaps Apple post-Jobs will largely stagnate in a way similar to Microsoft post-Gates. I sincerely doubt that though. Only time will tell, but Jobs has stepped down as CEO at a time when Apple is at the pinnacle of its all-time success by far. The challenge will be to keep ascending higher without Jobs' unique brand of leadership, but it's tremendously pessimistic to think there's no way it can be done without him. And you yourself, freudling, have been one of the most outspoken critics around here of some of Apple's design choices as of late. You've been a big proponent of alternative phone and tablet platforms. Sometimes people criticize some of Apple's choices and blame Jobs for what they don't like, saying he's likely the barrier preventing the improvements they would like to see. How do you know the change in leadership won't result in an even more dynamic Apple, one more receptive to new ideas and improvements to Apple's product lines?

[ironknee]

btw woz is on cnn tonight at 9pm eastern

he's been everywhere really...i wonder how he feels when the media is calling jobs a genius when woz is one also

[Big Mac]

I think Woz is too self-fulfilled to care if the media glosses over his contributions or his technical genius. Thank you for the heads-up on the interview. I can't remember the last time I've turned on CNN.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

You're that depressed that Jobs has stepped down apparently over poor health? I think you may need an anti-depressant, bro.

freudling, I think you're far overestimating the effect of Jobs' reduced role at Apple. Jobs is an outstanding technological visionary, an excellent salesman and a very strong chief executive. There's no doubt about any of that. His return to Apple and what he's been able to accomplish in the second era of his Apple leadership is legendary. But he didn't do it alone. Apple didn't just get a CEO when it bought NeXT, it also brought over tremendously talented people who were key to Apple's resurgence. Jobs may have had a lot of contributions to the design of products, but if you think he was the only driving force or the sole difference between failure and success, you're giving him far more credit than he's due.

Jobs may have had strong input and served as a strong source of inspiration and support for the various Apple teams that made the computers and devices that changed the world, but others did most of the heavy lifting of design and engineering that made those projects a reality. Jobs is one of a kind - that's why he's had such a profound impact - but Apple has seen this period long in coming and has a whole infrastructure devoted to training people to think and lead more like Jobs. I think Business Week or a similar paper had a large article on it.

And I think you're really selling a lot of talented professionals short if you think Apple doesn't have the talent to continue on creating and innovating in a similar pattern once Jobs is gone. This isn't the same Apple as in the mid-80s to mid 90s when the company was so grossly mismanaged without Jobs and almost completely lacked vision and marketing acumen, a company on the verge of death before his return. Apple is the most valuable corporation in the US, Apple products will continue to sell like hotcakes (even the iPhone 4 which is dated hardware now is still selling very strongly), and the iPhone 5 is undoubtedly going to make smart phone sales history very soon. I also think you're selling Jobs himself short if you have no faith that he has helped put the resources in place to ensure that Apple succeeds in the future without him.

Don't get me wrong, I have always massively been on Team Jobs. I was ecstatic when he made his triumphant return to save Apple, and I've bought in most always (with some notable exceptions) to his vision for the future of Apple products. I am very sorry that he had to make the difficult decision to give up his position. It is the end of an era. But nonetheless he's just one man. An exceptional man, but only a man. People revere him to such a degree that it bears a strong resemblance to certain well known religions, if you catch my drift. Apple will continue on post-Jobs.

Now maybe you're right - maybe Jobs is indispensable to Apple's success. Maybe Apple won't have a creative thought left in its collective brain trust without him. Maybe part of the psychic attractiveness of Apple products is the power of his marketing and his RDF. Perhaps Apple post-Jobs will largely stagnate in a way similar to Microsoft post-Gates. I sincerely doubt that though. Only time will tell, but Jobs has stepped down as CEO at a time when Apple is at the pinnacle of its all-time success by far. The challenge will be to keep ascending higher without Jobs' unique brand of leadership, but it's tremendously pessimistic to think there's no way it can be done without him. And you yourself, freudling, have been one of the most outspoken critics around here of some of Apple's design choices as of late. You've been a big proponent of alternative phone and tablet platforms. Sometimes people criticize some of Apple's choices and blame Jobs for what they don't like, saying he's likely the barrier preventing the improvements they would like to see. How do you know the change in leadership won't result in an even more dynamic Apple, one more receptive to new ideas and improvements to Apple's product lines?

How do I know? Because Steve is behind everything. He's relentless. He doesn't sleep. He's obsessed. He's a perfectionist beyond anybody else. He's why these products come to be. You should read up on the making of the first iPhone, and see how crazy it was. Steve pushes people to their absolute brink, his reality distortion field.

Let me put it to you this way. You guys all spout off "talented" this, and "deep bench" that yet it's all so vague and ends up being delusional.

Look at all the major tech companies going right now. You'd have to agree that they also have at least some talented people.

There's Microsoft. There's Nokia. There's RIM. There's Acer. There's HP. Most of these companies are floundering, if not outright failing. And they never produced anything that great anyway.

Without a strong vision it's just one piece of plastic junk after another, with no execution on a grand vision because one doesn't exist. And any that do are so flawed they sink the companies.

I know what Jobs's vision is, but he won't be around to see it. His goal is to create an invisible computer, one you never see. Totally integrated.

About 2 years ago this secret project had about 6-10 people working on it. Anyway, I'm rambling. I don't think anybody can replace him and the death of him... with him goes the vision and the ability to push people to execute on that vision.

[Stogieman]

Woz a genius? The same guy that was on Dancing with the Stars and dated Kathy Griffin?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by freudling 

I know what Jobs's vision is, but he won't be around to see it. His goal is to create an invisible computer, one you never see. Totally integrated.

About 2 years ago this secret project had about 6-10 people working on it.

Doesn't sound like a secret project to me if a Canadian who cries on the way to work knows about it.

[Big Mac]

Woz is really a class act. He downplays his own genius and extols Jobs' virtues, even making it sound like Jobs rivaled him technically. Very nice, very nerdy but exceedingly gracious guy. And Stogieman, I assume you're just being funny, but Woz absolutely was a genius. His Apple II designs were far beyond what the hardware geniuses on the Mac team could produce. If you aren't aware of his contribution, read some of the stories involving Woz on folklore.org.

[P]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

Woz a genius? The same guy that was on Dancing with the Stars and dated Kathy Griffin?

He was, back in the seventies. I don't think he has done anything remotely like that since that plane crash, although the company he is at now is apparently doing very well.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Doesn't sound like a secret project to me if a Canadian [like freudling] knows about it.

+++

(edit: minus the crying — that's personal, and doesn't affect the credibility of his claims)

[Macfreak7]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Jobs has his name on 313 Apple patents.

Sweet. That was also my dorm room # in college.

[l008com]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

+++

(edit: minus the crying — that's personal, and doesn't affect the credibility of his claims)

Are you really minusing the crying, if 97% of the characters in your reply are referring to it?

[Spheric Harlot]

Partial touché, even if you completely missed the point of my post, which was "give the guy a break".

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Crying? Depressed enough to need medication?

Wow. Sorry, but that's just sad.

[ghporter]

Shall we get back on track? A two year old project might have had plenty of people aware of it who were no longer under any non-disclosure agreement, or who were peripheral to it and aren't prevented from discussing it. Which has little to do with Steve Jobs... Move along, nothing more to say here.

[BadKosh]

You know things are bad when Apple is losing Jobs.......

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

You know things are bad when Apple is losing Jobs.......

Uhm, NO. You only know that things are bad with Jobs.

-t

I can't stand having Tim Cook as his replacement. Remember all the "Apple is gay" satires from 10 years ago from all the PC trolls and during the flower power iMacs?
Well now it's officially true. Apple/Macs are now gay.

I don't mind gays but I don't want them as Apple CEO because the trolls will just laugh at us.

[ort888]

I keep waiting for one of the big papers or magazines to run a "OMG! LARGEST COMPANY ON THE PLANET RUN BY A GAY!" story.

I've probably read 20+ stories on Steve stepping down and not one has mentioned Cook's sexuality. That's been nice. Surprising, but nice.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Andrej 

I can't stand having Tim Cook as his replacement. Remember all the "Apple is gay" satires from 10 years ago from all the PC trolls and during the flower power iMacs?
Well now it's officially true. Apple/Macs are now gay.

I don't mind gays but I don't want them as Apple CEO because the trolls will just laugh at us.

Oh give me a break. No one brought this up for three pages, and I haven't heard someone being actually gay as a legitimate slur since... well I can't remember. Anyone that fixated on it would get laughed at nowadays... not the other way around.

Originally Posted by ort888 

I keep waiting for one of the big papers or magazines to run a "OMG! LARGEST COMPANY ON THE PLANET RUN BY A GAY!" story.

I've probably read 20+ stories on Steve stepping down and not one has mentioned Cook's sexuality. That's been nice. Surprising, but nice.

Luck you, you don't browse Gizmodo. But yes, I hope it's a sign of a more enlightened sexuality-blind society and not a bunch of journalists afraid of Apple or something taboo.

[andi*pandi]

Frankly, I had no idea. And now that I know, I'm going to promptly forget about it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Andrej 

Well now it's officially true. Apple/Macs are now gay.

It's always been true. Well, at least since the Mac was introduced. Just accept it already.

Seriously though, Cook may or may not be. So far, it's just a rumour, because he's not been in a visible relationship - lifelong bachelor as it were. However, it seems that the only people that really care are gossip rags and you Andrej. The business and tech mags don't give a chit. They're more concerned about AAPL's valuation and the next best product release, and Apple's future impact on our consumerist (and enterprise) lives.

[Eug]

Video: The life and career of Steve Jobs