Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Art & Graphic Design > Client asks for PSD file.

Client asks for PSD file. (Page 2)
Thread Tools
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2006, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by xe0 View Post
In most cases this issue of source files / copyright / print production is outlined at the very beginning of all projects; so we rarely get the old 'we want the source files' request.
I adhere to some very simple rules for my business:

1. Do damn good work.
2. Deliver on time.
3. Charge the fair market price + anything else I can markup.
4. No hassle, partnership oriented client relations.

These four rules have made my business grow every year -- volume and profits. It's a winning mix for me and for my clients. That's why they come back for more and pass my name along to new clients.

If a client wants the source files, fine. WTF am I going to do with them? Try and sell the designs / ideas again? He11 no, I move on. My creativity isn't so precious that I can't do it again tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day. I just make sure I'm well-compensated up front.
     
Photo678
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2006, 05:38 PM
 
That is pretty much the way to do it....The only issues I run into is price haggles....too many people out there are charging pennies on the dollar for things that should cost 100's if not 1000's of dollars.....so they expect me to charge the same.

I admit to sucking it up and doing work for cheap when it is really slow...just because I need the money...but it is turning into everyone with photoshop is a designer these days and charges paper route fees for really garbage work....client ends up displeased, contacts me and expects me to do the work for close to what the original "designer" charged.....how do you justify a 600% markup to someone?
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2006, 05:44 PM
 
In my experience the jobs that pay the least have some characteristics in common:

1. They require a lot of hand-holding.

2. They're typically inexperienced clients who are not marketing saavy.

3. The take the longest to pay.

For these three reasons I avoid clients that wrangle for a better price or have small budgets. It's just not worth it.

When ad agency clients ask for a better rate they always do so with a promise of more work. To date that promise has not come through with any of these clients.
     
th3ph17
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: santa cruz, ca
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 1, 2006, 01:21 PM
 
Spot-on.
     
real
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Ca
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2006, 03:20 PM
 
You have make it clear in the beginning. So the Client doesn't think that you are trying to screw them in the end. With all new clients you tell them upfront that if they want the src files they will have to pay a fee to get them, or whatever you work out with them.


Always in the beginning of the client relationship.

real
With some loud music + a friend to chat nearby you can get alot done. - but jezz, I'd avoid it if I had the choice---- If only real people came with Alpha Channels.......:)
AIM:xflaer
deinterlaced.com
     
production_coordinator
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2006, 05:22 PM
 
From the other side of the fence... price is only one factor in the whole concept. If it's ugly and late, it's not very much use to me that the price was 1/2 as much as the next designer.

I was also a designer, so I know what the designer needs. They don't need a pixilated gif of the logo, they need the CMYK EPS version of the logo... they don't need all the photos sent to them in a MS Word document... they want them in their native formats (whatever that may be). I'm lucky in that I can buffer the designer from our sales staff and management.

Good designers provide:
- on time delivery
- quality pieces
- reasonably prices

Nobody is perfect... and designers/clients that work together generally are happier with one another.
     
production_coordinator
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2006, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by real View Post
You have make it clear in the beginning. So the Client doesn't think that you are trying to screw them in the end. With all new clients you tell them upfront that if they want the src files they will have to pay a fee to get them, or whatever you work out with them.


Always in the beginning of the client relationship.

real
With all the designers I work with, I tell them that I need 100% access to the source files, and that they should build that price into their pricing structure.

If they don't agree to that, I don't use them.

I'm still fuming over the fact that one of my designers didn't hand over a Quark file to me a few months back. "Oh, we'll cut and paste it into Word for $60." my behind!
     
iomatic  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2006, 01:18 AM
 
I wouldn't charge an agency extra to have the source files; they may as well own them for all I care. Of course, my rate reflects that.
     
catalyst
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 21, 2006, 09:49 PM
 
What everyone has failed to mention here is that if you release actual, material goods to your client (rather than your services) by state law, you are responsible for paying state taxes on those files. Since more often than not, these files and services are all on one invoice, the entire invoice would then be subject to state taxes, which leaves a heavy burden upon the "nice" designer to pay an additional 7+% on all of their invoices to the IRS.

Art Director, I respectfully disagree with your posts, and to the others who feel a client has bought and paid for those files - you are simply in error (again, visit copyright laws) and you are doing a disservice to the design community by disrespecting the standards that many professional guilds put forth to protect you.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but you would do yourself a favor by becoming familiar with contractual agreements and USING them.

Clients certainly aren't concerned with being "nice".
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2006, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
What everyone has failed to mention here is that if you release actual, material goods to your client (rather than your services) by state law, you are responsible for paying state taxes on those files. Since more often than not, these files and services are all on one invoice, the entire invoice would then be subject to state taxes, which leaves a heavy burden upon the "nice" designer to pay an additional 7+% on all of their invoices to the IRS.
First, tax laws vary by state. Here in MN sales tax is below 7%.

Second, state sales tax does not go to the IRS. The end of the paragraph above gets a little confusing. You may or may not have meant that.

Third, files are not taxed.



Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
Art Director, I respectfully disagree with your posts, and to the others who feel a client has bought and paid for those files - you are simply in error (again, visit copyright laws) and you are doing a disservice to the design community by disrespecting the standards that many professional guilds put forth to protect you.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but you would do yourself a favor by becoming familiar with contractual agreements and USING them.

Clients certainly aren't concerned with being "nice".
I'm not acquainted with your experience or background. Mine is working in and for ad agencies in a number shops here and in a few other cities -- many household names for those in the biz. Not one of those shops charges for the files, the business simply doesn't work that way. Income is realized in other areas.

For example, one place I worked for created hundreds of PDFs for some large retail clients we had. The agency set up a department that ran three shifts doing nothing but creating PDFs for pubs and presentations. Each PDF was billed to the client for absurd sums of money -- think the $300 range.

Since the ad business began we've gone back and forth with clients to keep our side of the business profitable. Fee structures, AOR, markups, etc. change from shop to shop and client to client. There have been successes and failures and, given the way our business is changing we need to accommodate rather than bicker over file fees or we'll all end up losing.
     
catalyst
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 24, 2006, 11:45 PM
 
When I stated 7% tax, I said "Approximately" which means "in the vacinity of", which would make my statement correct in relation to MN tax being *less than* 7%.

And yes, according to state law *here* in CA, files ARE subject to sales tax as defined as "material goods supplied to clients".

Also, Are you saying that state taxes are NOT paid to the IRS?? Please clarify. (rather, "State Tax Board"? If so... You're still paying taxes to the government whether state or federal.)

I do, however, agree with the fact that *not* providing files is cumbersome for both the clients and ourselves and work flow would be more streamlined with that sort of agreement.

When I began designing ten years ago, I was always of the mind to give my clients their entire, collected files (and always have). But now that I've incorporated and am learning why many of the guilds are so adamantly against it, I'm beginning to understand the drawbacks and liabilities that that practice can create for designers, not to mention the tax liabilities.

Perhaps your POV on this is more applicable to an office type culture, whereas I may be more culpable as a Principal of a corporation.
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2006, 01:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
When I stated 7% tax, I said "Approximately" which means "in the vacinity of", which would make my statement correct in relation to MN tax being *less than* 7%.

Would 'none' fall into your definition of 'approximately 7%' state sales tax?

As I said, rates of sales tax and what exactly is taxed varies by state.

One example: The federal government has a law stating that sales of merchandise over the internet that cross state lines are not subject to sales tax in the state of use unless the merchant has a physical presence in that state. This law is overridden in Minnesota by a law from the late 60s that requires the payment of tax on any item to be used within the state of MN regardless of how it got here. That stinks for those living in MN.



Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
And yes, according to state law *here* in CA, files ARE subject to sales tax as defined as "material goods supplied to clients".
Bummer, not here.



Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
Also, Are you saying that state taxes are NOT paid to the IRS?? Please clarify. (rather, "State Tax Board"? If so... You're still paying taxes to the government whether state or federal.)
No, state sales taxes are not paid to the federal government, hence the name 'state sales tax.' Where that money goes is important, actually. As a principal of a business you, more than most people, should know that.



Originally Posted by catalyst View Post
When I began designing ten years ago, I was always of the mind to give my clients their entire, collected files (and always have). But now that I've incorporated and am learning why many of the guilds are so adamantly against it, I'm beginning to understand the drawbacks and liabilities that that practice can create for designers, not to mention the tax liabilities.

Perhaps your POV on this is more applicable to an office type culture, whereas I may be more culpable as a Principal of a corporation.
Your 'office type culture' comment has me laughing out loud. I too am a principal of a corporation.
     
catalyst
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2006, 03:04 AM
 
My apologies.
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2006, 03:33 AM
 
No reason for apologies. This is a good, spirited discussion.
     
mitchell_pgh
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2006, 01:17 PM
 
IMHO, as a buyer of design, if I can not have free access to the final collected artwork, I don't want to work with you.

Anyway, I can always "maliciously" get it from the designer.
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 25, 2006, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh View Post
IMHO, as a buyer of design, if I can not have free access to the final collected artwork, I don't want to work with you.

Anyway, I can always "maliciously" get it from the designer.
To your point, holding back files makes for bad business.
     
himself
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Live at the BBQ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2006, 12:40 PM
 
As I think others have explained before, it is not a matter of holding back files or merely charging extra for them when the issue happens to come up, it is about assessing the clients needs and expectations before the project begins, and planning the project accordingly. For example... in my case, my terms and conditions spell out clearly how file ownership is handled for a particular project type, and the client is given every opportunity to modify those terms for their needs. If they'll need access to the files after the project is completed, we can address how they intend to use those files, and I'll take that into account when I give them the fee estimate, and when those files are prepared for them later.

You see, all of the confusion that some of you might expect from this kind of arrangement is avoided when these issues, and others, are taken into account and addressed from the beginning. The confusion occurs when the designer doesn't have a set policy on these issues, and only address them once they are mentioned, usually after the work has begun. When everyone knows where everyone else stands and what to expect from the beginning, projects tend to go much more smoothly and can be very enjoyable, instead of being an exercise in frustration and last-minute crisis management.

I'll also state, however, that if you didn't clarify certain terms with your client at the start, you really can't just drop it on them at the last minute, when the topic happens to come up. it isn't ethical, and the client shouldn't be penalized for what is really an oversight on the part of the designer.

On the other hand, if the terms were spelled out at the start, and the client wants to change them mid-project, I would assess the extra charges (I also specify any last-minute changes in the scale and/or scope of the project will assess additional fees).
"Bill Gates can't guarantee Windows... how can you guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 26, 2006, 01:58 PM
 
When I work for an ad agency it's unsaid and understood that the files will be handed over. Period. Trying to secure a signed contract stating ownership of files and such would be unproductive and would likely cause me a client. Not to mention, rarely doe the schedule allow for approvals. IOW, I don't waste my time with contracts.

For my other clients I'm willing to hand over the files. After all, WTF am I going to do with an ad that has a shot of a Jeep Grand Cherokee and has the Jeep logo on it? Try and sell it to Land Rover? No.

When I create something, whether a logo or a TV spot, it's for the client that hired me and the concept is tailored to that brand. It cannot be sold to another client because it just wouldn't work. Well, at least if the work is worth its salt. IOW, a BMW ad wouldn't work for Hyundai -- different target, different brand, different tone and manner.

My non-agency clients are generally large corporations. I don't do work for many small businesses. I could see the need for greater legal protection with contractors and such. They're not marketing savvy and tend to be less than scrupulous.
     
himself
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Live at the BBQ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2006, 12:23 AM
 
It's been mentioned before, but I'll say it again: every project agreement doesn't state that the designer owns everything. The agreement clarifies who owns what, and under what conditions (rights are transferred upon full payment, for example). Each project type is different, and calls for different terms. Corporate Identity systems are one thing, and advertising is another thing as well (not to mention a different, but related, industry). Just as there are projects where a client expects and deserves full ownership of the final product, there are others where the designer is using material that they wish to retain their proper rights to.

As for the "marketing saavy" big corporations not needing or wanting contracts, I find the opposite to be true. Larger organizations want assurances -- written agreements provide that more than anything else. The larger organizations also tend to understand the necessity of the protection of ideas and intellectual property... I guarantee you a company like Target (as an example) will not contract to anyone unless they provide, in writing guidelines and conditions for using their trademarks, and those conditions are agreed to.

I've also found that larger organizations will take you more seriously when you are dilligent about addressing any potential issues in a written agreement, that everyone can later refer to. What seems to be overlooked in here is that the written agreement isn't only for the sake of the designer, but for the sake of the client as well... there are protections included for all parties. This doesn't mean that a big organization will not work with you without a contract, it just means that they know they have a little wiggle room to take advantage of you if they choose to.

On the other hand, smaller business tend to need to be guided in the area of copyrights and exactly what the design process entails, so they are usually (but not always) a little more apprehensive about what a written agreement may entail, until it is explained to them. Regardless of the size of the business, however, I've found that organizations that balk at the mention of a written agreement should probably be avoided anyway. When I started out on my own, and I elected to forgo a written agreement because my client insisted, I usually ended up with a client who couldn't be found when it was time to pay up, and lots of time and other resources spent on a project with no compensation. Insisting on a written agreement works wonders for weeding out potential deadbeats, and also works well at winning long-term and referral clients.

Not only that, but there is no "wasted time" in procuring written agreement approvals. There are standard agreements for each project type, and they are usually accepted by the client as they are, since they are crafted with client concerns in mind. If there are any disputed points, they are nearly always addressed in one sitting. Plus, they save me dozens of hours in conflict and miscommunication issues in the future. Besides most of the work I do is mid- to long-term (three months or more), so maybe I have more time than most to prepare. But I make it a point to not accept last-minute projects unless the client is ready to pay a premium for it. If they are not willing to accept the terms and conditions (or negotiate them) for a last-minute rush-job, they can waste more time finding a designer who will cut corners for them.

In my experience, implicit ("unsaid" as you put it) agreements are just not good. They work for some things, but there are just so many distinct variables connected to each project and so many issues that need to be addressed, it's best to be explicit about them. If everything is implicit, how can you be sure that your client is on the same page as you in regards to any particualr issue? It is simply a matter of being safe rather than sorry for me, but others are free to handle their business however they wish, I'm not trying to convert anyone. I really just believe that it is misleading for anyone to say that written agreements and protection of ideas don't work and are a "waste of time" in this industry, especially if that person hasn't employed that process.
"Bill Gates can't guarantee Windows... how can you guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2006, 09:37 AM
 
deleted
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2006, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by himself View Post
... I guarantee you a company like Target (as an example) will not contract to anyone unless they provide, in writing guidelines and conditions for using their trademarks, and those conditions are agreed to....
That's complete rubbish. I've been freelancing for Target for fifteen years. To date they've not asked for or initiated any such guidelines or conditions on the many hundreds of projects I've done for them. Those projects have included logos, collateral, ads ( tv, print, ooh, web, pr, event, etc. ).
     
himself
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Live at the BBQ
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by art_director View Post
That's complete rubbish. I've been freelancing for Target for fifteen years. To date they've not asked for or initiated any such guidelines or conditions on the many hundreds of projects I've done for them. Those projects have included logos, collateral, ads ( tv, print, ooh, web, pr, event, etc. ).
That sounds odd. I'm not going to dispute your personal experience, but every company I've worked with that had a properly developed identity system protected that identity as if it were pure gold. There are at least guidelines for how the logo should be placed in a composition, it's scale relative to other objects, and proper colors to be used, as examples.
"Bill Gates can't guarantee Windows... how can you guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by himself View Post
That sounds odd. I'm not going to dispute your personal experience, but every company I've worked with that had a properly developed identity system protected that identity as if it were pure gold. There are at least guidelines for how the logo should be placed in a composition, it's scale relative to other objects, and proper colors to be used, as examples.
Now you're speaking of graphic standards. That's an entirely different subject. Target sends a book to all their agencies and freelancers along witht he most current brand identity standards and versions of their marks. Most companies do the same but with varying degrees of success.
     
inkhead
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2006, 03:02 PM
 
Most of the work I do involves icons and UI concepts, or splash screens. With me I keep the PSD files closely guarded. I'm available 24 hours a day, and provide them a secondary contractor in the event something happens to me he has access to my FTP server. If I were to give vector icons out, or splash screens out to a company, they would "magically" not need my services anymore because their very poor visual designers, DO know how to use Photoshop, the just don't know how to CREATE. So if they did have my source files they might actually use them, and be able to create new icons based off "blanks" and new splash screens and such... I think it's different for every field.
     
iomatic  (op)
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 1999
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2006, 08:43 PM
 
I'm going to weigh in on what's transpired so far (not much), since I gave up the files, no questions asked.

Guess what? They asked for more work— I've already made lots on the work they've given me so far, and booked another large project next quarter, that frankly, I could pay someone else to do (now that I have a full-time gig). In retrospect, the issue was such a long time ago, and yes, lots of efforts went into it. I don't even know if their partners reused the ads recently; I don't even care at this point in time.

So, hindsight is 20/20 as the saying goes, but in this case, not nitpicking a small part of the overall relationship surely has — quite literally — paid off for me.

US$.02.
     
praterkeith
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2006, 03:39 AM
 
I believe that the artist should be able to comfortably say NO to a client. If a client does need to 'tweak' something then he should have no trouble asking the designer to finish his/her work. I designed a logo for a friend once. He told me he loved the logo and wanted to use it for his bands myspace page immediatly. Unfortunatly by the time I got back to my place to check it out, he took it upon himself to make some 'tweaks' to it himself. Needless to say, I feel taken advantage of as an artist because of the time I put into this, in then end it was basically a template for him to explore and build on. We are no longer friends and if someone wishes to not choose me because I don't turn over the files, then fine. You aren't someone that I wish to freelance for because after all.....as a freelancer we have the right to take our work elsewhere. If you are good enough, there will be no trouble finding work. If you aren't good enough, well, you should probably give in and give them the file.
Regardless, we have every right to say no. In your unfortunate situation however, this is half of your income. I'm sorry man.
PowerMac G4-733mhz-Quicksilver | 5th gen. iPod-Video-30gb-White. | Pentax *istDS DSLR
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2006, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by praterkeith View Post
I believe that the artist should be able to comfortably say NO to a client. If a client does need to 'tweak' something then he should have no trouble asking the designer to finish his/her work. I designed a logo for a friend once. He told me he loved the logo and wanted to use it for his bands myspace page immediatly. Unfortunatly by the time I got back to my place to check it out, he took it upon himself to make some 'tweaks' to it himself. Needless to say, I feel taken advantage of as an artist because of the time I put into this, in then end it was basically a template for him to explore and build on. We are no longer friends and if someone wishes to not choose me because I don't turn over the files, then fine. You aren't someone that I wish to freelance for because after all.....as a freelancer we have the right to take our work elsewhere. If you are good enough, there will be no trouble finding work. If you aren't good enough, well, you should probably give in and give them the file.
Regardless, we have every right to say no. In your unfortunate situation however, this is half of your income. I'm sorry man.
Yeah, you go and try that with a major client like Target Corporation. Here in MN they're a major client for the entire freelance community. Many, many, many people I know have them as their biggest client. If they followed your advice those people would be dead broke or out of biz.

My point is, as a designer / art director, you're not an 'artist.' That's a naive view of the job. The fact is you're a business person, plain and simple. You just happen to use art / design as your in to the business world.

I've been doing this a long time. I've worked in agencies large and small. I've hired freelancers and have been a freelancer for a number of years. The people I've seen who share your view and push their luck have long disappeared from the market. My guess is that they're selling used cars or slininging hash but I don't honestly know.

I don't mean to sound harsh or to offend. We just need to be careful about what we say here -- many young, impressionable people come to this forum asking for advice. I would feel terrible if ANY of them took some reckless words from this forum and ruined their futures. Granted we all need to learn.
     
Photo678
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 22, 2006, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by art_director View Post
Yeah, you go and try that with a major client like Target Corporation. Here in MN they're a major client for the entire freelance community. Many, many, many people I know have them as their biggest client. If they followed your advice those people would be dead broke or out of biz.

My point is, as a designer / art director, you're not an 'artist.' That's a naive view of the job. The fact is you're a business person, plain and simple. You just happen to use art / design as your in to the business world.

I've been doing this a long time. I've worked in agencies large and small. I've hired freelancers and have been a freelancer for a number of years. The people I've seen who share your view and push their luck have long disappeared from the market. My guess is that they're selling used cars or slininging hash but I don't honestly know.

I don't mean to sound harsh or to offend. We just need to be careful about what we say here -- many young, impressionable people come to this forum asking for advice. I would feel terrible if ANY of them took some reckless words from this forum and ruined their futures. Granted we all need to learn.
+1 Refusing to hand over source files as a matter of pride is asinine. The client has the right to do with the final piece as they wish..including changes to text, colors, etc etc.....its the nature of the bizz.
     
praterkeith
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Alabama
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 12:56 AM
 
not an artist?

naive comment by a naive person.....if you attend art school for 4 years for a BA in graphic design, you are indeed an artist.
PowerMac G4-733mhz-Quicksilver | 5th gen. iPod-Video-30gb-White. | Pentax *istDS DSLR
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 30, 2006, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by praterkeith View Post
not an artist?

naive comment by a naive person.....if you attend art school for 4 years for a BA in graphic design, you are indeed an artist.
1. People who go to art and design school then enter the design / advetising world are business people. Unfortunately too many of us leave school with the impression that this industry is art. It's not. There's an artistic element to it but it's still a business.

2. If your definition of 'an artist' includes a four year degree then you don't know what 'an artist' is.
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2007, 07:59 PM
 
so here's a dilemma: a client that I haven't done work in the last 2 years for has "lost" her art disk that I sent her back then. She'd like me to send a new one. I haven't seen any work from her in 2 years, I've taken her files off my hard drive, I'd have to take time to dig them out, send a PDF, burn a cd, and mail it. It could conceivably take an hour of my time to do this for her.

Do I bill her for that time or consider it an investment, if any, in future work?
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 22, 2007, 10:43 PM
 
andi*pandi:

Having been in your shoes I know how you feel. It blows that that some clients consider us their offsite storage.

When it happened to me the client went cold turkey on giving me work. Without explanation I was forced to assume I had done something wrong.

Fast forward two years.

After having said client contact me frequently (read no fewer than ten times / year) looking for my archived copies of projects (seriously), they called me in for a new project. At that time they explained that they stopped giving me work because of a corporate shift in policy. Suddenly they were in a pinch and needed help. I did the job and marked it up to cover what I considered a reasonable cost for storing and replacing their files over the years. In the end I was happy -- they paid for a few new hard drives.

So, if I were in your shoes, I'd play nice freelancer and hand over the goods with a smile. That does a few things for you:

1. It makes you look like a partner rather than a vendor -- you cared enough to save their shiit and were able to save their arse.

2. If your client(s) ever leaves their current job they'll remember you and your willingness to help.

3. You might be able to, in time, collect a few extra dollars to offest the cost of storing their files (read bill them for a new RAID system).
     
andi*pandi
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: inside 128, north of 90
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 30, 2007, 12:13 PM
 
thanks AD, I took your advice. I emailed her the PDF, and today she asked me to make a minor change then send the artwork. So now it's just not handing over files, it's doing actual work... and since the work is so old it's in Quark, and I'd need to launch classic, and hope it still functions.

I'm thinking it will take me longer to write up an invoice than to make her little change, but I don't want her to think she can get everything for free.
     
art_director
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN U.S.A.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jan 31, 2007, 01:47 PM
 
a*p:

You're handling it the right way. Your client appreciates the effort even if she doesn't express it.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:18 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,