[Janaka Cooray]

Hi,

Is it just me or does Office 2004 Mac look more busy and cluttered (and therefore seem harder to use) than Office on the PC?

Having floating toolbars is O.K - but being able to see windows from other apps inbetween, say, an Excel worksheet and the top menu is distracting to say the least. The same goes for the gaps between the workarea and the toolbars floating to the side.

Is there any way to change Office 2004 display so it looks more like it's PC cousin or even more like the iLife apps?

[alphasubzero949]

They're the same. You could also change the window sizes if it makes you feel better.

[Randman]

My wife uses Excel daily on the peecee side (as well as Word) and she's said the same thing. Basically, we went through the preferences (I almost never use Excel so I'm a noob about most of it functions) together and tried to set the look closer to the peecee side while also experimenting with the extra features on the Mac side.

She's still a little leery with all of the extra bells and whistles but she's warming to it. Might help you to do the same. Play around with it and see what works for you. Once you see all the extras, you don't want to go back.

[Kerrigan]

Sometimes it seems as though Microsoft intentionally muck up their products for the Mac. Office has all the same features on the Mac, but the interface is very distracting and cluttered. I've adjusted the toolbar to stretch all the way across the top of the screen, and I make the text window as large as it can be, thus filling in most of the gaps. It still is not as clean looking as the Windows version, which is frustrating. I remember when Office v.X came out, and I was very disappointed when I discovered that I had paid around �200 for a word processing suite that had a crap interface and a noticeable typing lag. It's sad that Office is supposed to be the cornerstone of productivity, and yet it still feels like a CCP.

Oh well, at least it's better than Media Player.

[cpac]

I just modified my toolbar so that it's fairly minimal. (I'd post a screen shot, but I'm at work, where our Windows Word has four rows of buttons below the toolbar).

You can easily make it just as clean or as cluttered as the Windows version. (but I ask you, who really uses buttons for cut/copy/paste anyway? for save as? open? - all these things, I think, are best left in the menus and done either that way, or via keyboard shortcuts).

As far as seeing other application in the background - that's part of the Mac windowing way of things. It makes sense for cutting and pasting, switching between apps, multi-tasking, etc.. If you really hate it, you can always maximize your Word window size, or (possibly? not home to check...) set the view to "full screen" and thereby get the Windows feel of having a single app take over your entire interface...

[Shades of Gray]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Sometimes it seems as though Microsoft intentionally muck up their products for the Mac. Office has all the same features on the Mac,

Well, sort of. VBA is not the same - by a long shot. Reference Libraries for VBA on the Mac side are severely limited. UserForms are different, and it makes a difference how they are laid out.

Pivot Tables in Excel are limited, and Pivot Charts are totally lacking on the Mac side.

ActiveX Controls are not supported on the Mac side (not necessarily a bad thing, just the reality that anything made with the Control ToolBox (ComboBox, ListBox, CheckBox, etc.) is not only useless on the Mac side, you can't even delete them, let alone modify/use them. Thus, if someone is going to create something like these, be sure to use the Forms toolbar on the Windows side, not the Control ToolBox.

[MartiNZ]

Wow, I'm surprised to hear all of this negativity re office:mac! Personally I far prefer the look and workflow to that of office xp/2003 on windows. The formatting palette is great, and now that they let you customise what you want shown there, it's even better (i.e. you can get rid of all the rubbish that they added to it that doesn't fit on a 12" screen).

And the customisable keyboard shortcuts mean that you really don't need any other toolbars in Word; the standard one and the formula bar are good in Excel. I also like the fact that the apps don't take up the whole screen, and that it's easier to work with more than one doc open - especially with expos�.

For the interface lag and nasty compatibility with windows when using pictures, plus the awful appearance of pasted images, especially PDFs, I lay the blame on Microsoft. I'm not sure that this is where it should be laid, but a) it's usually a good option and is easy; and b) it seems likely given that TextEdit and Pages do not have these problems.

[maphro]

I bought it few weeks ago..just so I can sent my resume out..and open the stuff others sent me. no real use.. what a waste of money. I spend 30mins figureing out how to change font size... everything that's made for mac should not be this hard to operate.. why did they think I choose mac over pc..?

[tooki]

Yeesh, a half our to find the font size right in the formatting palette?!? Uhh, I dunno what to say to that, it's entirely 1000% obvious to me. (The Mac version also has the same formatting toolbar from the Windows version, but it's hidden by default.)

The Mac version has far more features put prominently where they're easy to use, unlike on Windows where functions are either available only in a dialog box, or in one of a dozen toolbars. The Mac version has collected the most common functions into the Formatting palette.

As for the desktop and other apps showing through: well, you can hide other apps. This wasn't so much a choice on Microsoft's part as a correct adherence to the Mac's deliberate lack of the window-within-a-window system (called MDI --multiple document interface-- in Windows). Note that the latest Windows version of Office behaves the same as the Mac version, with the windows floating free.

tooki

[maphro]

Originally Posted by tooki

Yeesh, a half our to find the font size right in the formatting palette?!? Uhh, I dunno what to say to that, it's entirely 1000% obvious to me. (The Mac version also has the same formatting toolbar from the Windows version, but it's hidden by default.)

The Mac version has far more features put prominently where they're easy to use, unlike on Windows where functions are either available only in a dialog box, or in one of a dozen toolbars. The Mac version has collected the most common functions into the Formatting palette.

As for the desktop and other apps showing through: well, you can hide other apps. This wasn't so much a choice on Microsoft's part as a correct adherence to the Mac's deliberate lack of the window-within-a-window system (called MDI --multiple document interface-- in Windows). Note that the latest Windows version of Office behaves the same as the Mac version, with the windows floating free.

tooki

did I mention I am new to the digital world..the computer world...the real world... I am totally not familier with PC envirment.. I did use Apple Works sometimes..before I bought this new PowerBook.. Apple Works was much easier... ...well..the college I went to...the major I was in...did not require to use a computer.. we call that painter.. well...now that into digital photography..I must learn..

[Janaka Cooray]

O.K - I'll mess around with preferences and see if i can get things to my liking.

Reading the responses though - I'd make a couple of points:

1) I'm new to the Mac and it really does seem more consistent (and thus easier to use) - Office seems like a rude shock to a newbie Mac user. How can people defend the Apple-provided software AND Office when they're so diferent?

2) One of the most impressive things about the Mac is that it's default settings seem to be set so sensibly - it's a real boon to newbies to cut out the configuration work that plagues PC use. So why is Office set up maddeningly cluttered as it's default?

One thing I remember from my PC days was that if user's didn't like something, they complained about it and it got changed in the next version. It seems no-one complains about anything on the Mac - why is that?

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by Janaka Cooray

Having floating toolbars is O.K - but being able to see windows from other apps inbetween, say, an Excel worksheet and the top menu is distracting to say the least. The same goes for the gaps between the workarea and the toolbars floating to the side.

That's a standard Mac thing. Most of us find it really annoying when an app has the audacity to assume you don't want to look at anything else!

Amorya

[cpac]

Originally Posted by Janaka Cooray

1) I'm new to the Mac and it really does seem more consistent (and thus easier to use) - Office seems like a rude shock to a newbie Mac user. How can people defend the Apple-provided software AND Office when they're so diferent?

Good question. The answer is that when you compare the Mac OS to Windows, the Mac OS is superior. When you compare Office 2004 (mac) to Office XP (windows), Office 2004 is superior. Thus people will defend Office 2004 even if it isn't the best Mac citizen out there. (The fact remains that regardless, it is a *critical* Mac citizen).

2) One of the most impressive things about the Mac is that it's default settings seem to be set so sensibly - it's a real boon to newbies to cut out the configuration work that plagues PC use. So why is Office set up maddeningly cluttered as it's default?

Ask Microsoft. Seriously - there's not much reason for the clutter (and thankfully, you can clear it up), but MS has never been about clean appearances. (Remember back before anything really had tool bars, and you just used the menus for everything? - THAT was a clean, uncluttered look). If clean is what you prefer, there are plenty of cleaner alternatives to word including Pages, Nisus Writer Express, Mellel, etc.

One thing I remember from my PC days was that if user's didn't like something, they complained about it and it got changed in the next version. It seems no-one complains about anything on the Mac - why is that?

It just means you haven't been around these boards long enough. Give in a day or three - you'll see huge complaints about why Tiger broke this or that thing. Generally I think Mac users actually *are* more critical of their software than Windows users - we demand better interface, more polish, etc.