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Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 11:01 AM

Of course it is.

On a 2.0 C2D iMac with 2GB of RAM, there's enough lag that typing often feels like I'm using a Mac Classic, especially when dealing with tables.

The apps take forever to open.

The new file formats suck and are terrible.

The thesaurus feature is awful.

Powerpoint kicked my dog for fun.

Seriously, Office 2004 under Rosetta was faster and more stable than 2008 has been so far for me. It's bad on C2D Intel Macs, and even worse on the iMac G5s I use. I never thought an application would actually make Office 2004 look good, but this one does. Microsoft was wise to create new file formats, otherwise no one in their right mind would upgrade.

The only advantage I've found so far:
-Improved photo cropping in Word

What are your experiences so far?

(MacNN user note: Please don't keep this thread too close to being on topic)
(MacNN moderator note: Please don't move this to Applications, I'd prefer it remain here and be fun)

ghporter · Dec 15, 2008, 11:05 AM

The new XML-based file formats had promise. But they broke that promise and told all my secrets to my worst enemy.

Seriously, XML could have made those formats work great, but instead, all they did was make things harder to deal with.

And they recalculated my spreadsheets to make my investments look much worse than they were.

Oisín · Dec 15, 2008, 11:09 AM

是的。 (Why wasn’t this listed as an option?)

Atheist · Dec 15, 2008, 11:10 AM

Serious question. Besides compatibility issues with other software, why do you care how the data is stored?

ort888 · Dec 15, 2008, 11:45 AM

Well, Jim and Pam being together does take a lot of drama from the show, but it's still consistently funny.

Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Atheist

Serious question. Besides compatibility issues with other software, why do you care how the data is stored?

Mostly compatibility issues with other software, like professors sending me docx files when I can't use them at home.

Also, OS X and Gmail seem to think that docx files are dangerous and could includes viruses.

osiris · Dec 15, 2008, 12:19 PM

Office 2008 is pretty bloated, lots of background processes running, and it seems slower compared to 2004.

But Dakar V is quite the thorn - like a relentless demon stabbing shards of glass into your brain.

That's not really like a thorn at all, but you got the idea.

ort888 · Dec 15, 2008, 12:36 PM

I haven't used ofice in any real capacity in about a decade and I recently had to put together a powerpoint presentation and WOW... does it suck. I was shocked at how bloated, unintuitive and craptacular powerpoint was in ever conceivable way. This is one of Microsofts premier software applications and after about 20 years, this is where it is? Seriously?

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2008, 12:48 PM

Office 2008 is the prime example of why Microsoft really, really needs to die.

They Just. Do. Not. Get. It.

Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Well, Jim and Pam being together does take a lot of drama from the show, but it's still consistently funny.

I'm still hoping to see Holly back somehow, even though having Toby around is always great. I'm still confused as to why Ryan broke it off with Kelly. It seemed that he was okay with her until he saw that Darryl didn't care that Kelly was breaking up with him, at which point something changed. Any insight?

ort888 · Dec 15, 2008, 02:37 PM

He just wanted her back to inflate his ego. He had forgotten how irritating she really was. He was interested in the chase, not the catch.

Holly has to come back. I think they are winding this show down. Is the next season the last?

Kenneth · Dec 15, 2008, 02:58 PM

First I like it, but not anymore. I go back to iWork '08.

Isn't this crazy?

olePigeon · Dec 15, 2008, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Mostly compatibility issues with other software, like professors sending me docx files when I can't use them at home.

Also, OS X and Gmail seem to think that docx files are dangerous and could includes viruses.

When .docx files started trickling in here at work, people started putting in orders for Office 2008 just so they could open the stupid file. So I told them they don't have to order it, there's a god awfully slow format converter from Microsoft.

Then I found out that Pages does a superior job at converting the .docx files than Microsoft's program does. Pages opens up .docx just fine.

ghporter · Dec 15, 2008, 03:10 PM

I got and used the converter that olePigeon referrs to. On my 2.0GHz MBP this took way too long for the 4-5 page documents Ineeded to mess with, but at least it worked.

What REALLY irks me about Office 2007 (yes, the Windows version) is that they radically changed the WHOLE USER INTERFACE. I know Word; I've used every version of it since 1.0. Yet I could not figure out how to do some of the simplest stuff in Word 2007 because they hid/relocated/renamed/etc. the options I needed. AND THEY CHANGED KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS! I mean, who (with any Office experience anyway) doesn't at least occasionally use "Ctl-C" to copy and "Ctl-V" to paste? Well with this new UI, the freakin' CONTEXT changes what Ctl-V does...sometimes...depending. After over 20 years of depending on these keystrokes, I had to completely change my work flow to use the stupid menu bar or context menu in order to do really simple, basic stuff. Ay yi yi! I haven't even looked at Office 2008 to see how messed up that will make me...

Pant....pant...pant...

So anyway, other than that I have no real feelings about this one way or the other...

lexapro · Dec 15, 2008, 03:15 PM

Macbook C2D 2.0ghz, 2gb RAM, 160gb HD...office 2008 is WAY TO SLOW in the most basic of things, like saving

i am going back to abiword

osiris · Dec 15, 2008, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I got and used the converter that olePigeon referrs to. On my 2.0GHz MBP this took way too long for the 4-5 page documents Ineeded to mess with, but at least it worked.

What REALLY irks me about Office 2007 (yes, the Windows version) is that they radically changed the WHOLE USER INTERFACE. I know Word; I've used every version of it since 1.0. Yet I could not figure out how to do some of the simplest stuff in Word 2007 because they hid/relocated/renamed/etc. the options I needed. AND THEY CHANGED KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS! I mean, who (with any Office experience anyway) doesn't at least occasionally use "Ctl-C" to copy and "Ctl-V" to paste? Well with this new UI, the freakin' CONTEXT changes what Ctl-V does...sometimes...depending. After over 20 years of depending on these keystrokes, I had to completely change my work flow to use the stupid menu bar or context menu in order to do really simple, basic stuff. Ay yi yi! I haven't even looked at Office 2008 to see how messed up that will make me...

Pant....pant...pant...

So anyway, other than that I have no real feelings about this one way or the other...

Wow, I've never seen you so hopping mad over anything.

Now everyone must realize how bad this software truly is.

olePigeon · Dec 15, 2008, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

What REALLY irks me about Office 2007 (yes, the Windows version) is that they radically changed the WHOLE USER INTERFACE.

So how long did it take you to figure out that the Windows logo was actually a button, and took place of most of the File menu options like Page Setup and Print. Took me about 20 minutes. I was trying to figure out why Word would completely crash when hitting the Print button or Control-P. I also couldn't get to Page Setup because I didn't know the keyboard shortcut for it. Luckily no one was in the room, but it was 20 minutes of "Where the f**k is the god damn Print menu?!"

Turns out that for some reason Page Setup had the document size set to something weird that the printer didn't support. So instead of telling me that, Word just crashed.

Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 03:27 PM

Oh yeah, a couple more.

The equation editor in 2007 is incompatible with 2003, 2004, and 2008. 2008's editor still works with '03 and '04 though. So I can write a lab report in 2007, open it up in 2008, and none of my equations show up. I have to go into 2007 and save it as a 2003/2004 file, at which point it exports the equations as a picture file that can't be edited. If 2007 opens up a 2003/2004/2008 document with any equations in it, it converts them to the new 2007 format and from that point on only 2007 can edit them.

Also, I was just sent a graduate survey by my college in Word 2007 format. I opened it up in 2008, and I can't actually check any of the boxes - I'm assuming I have to open that up in 2007 to edit it.

edit: I just found that I can right-click a check box and set its default value to "checked," though this seems to be a terrible way to fill out a form.

Apple really needs to start packaging iWork with all new Macs and start killing Office. The fact that Macs don't come with any (full version) word processing/presentation/spreadsheet software means that people will have to buy something, and it's most likely to be Office. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft purposely made this version terrible, they have to do something to stop OS X from being as great as it is, and this is the one place they still have a stranglehold.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2008, 04:22 PM

Plenty of wonderful little nuggets on Office 2008 here:

http://www.betalogue.com/

The most stunning failure, to me, is SO TYPICAL: They got so scared shitless by iWork 08 that they felt the need to throw out the old toolbars and integrate them into the window, Mac-style (whoo-wee!) - in line with Safari, iWork, the Finder, Mail, and any other application that features in-window toolbars.

Except they added those weird is-it-a-button-no-it's-a-menu-wtf buttons to the toolbar, meaning there's nothing standard about them. Strike one.

Every other application that uses these toolbars (except Logic, WTF Apple?) has a "View" menu ("Darstellung" in German) that contains a "Customize Toolbar…" command.
Not Word. There's a menu called "Ansicht" (Strike two) and then there's a command called "Customize toolbars and menus…", which opens a bizarre combination of utterly idiotic menu customization toolbar and a window which I have to this day not understood, because I categorically refuse to spend more than five minutes trying to figure out HOW TO OPERATE A ****ING DIALOG BOX. Not what all the options do, mind - literally, how to operate the damn thing. WHO THE **** DO THOSE ENGINEERS THINK WE ARE?

There is also no "Cancel" button, though hitting the "Escape" key does *something* (no idea what).

Dakar V · Dec 15, 2008, 04:35 PM

Where's the poll option for "I don't use this ****"?

Chuckit · Dec 15, 2008, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

When .docx files started trickling in here at work, people started putting in orders for Office 2008 just so they could open the stupid file. So I told them they don't have to order it, there's a god awfully slow format converter from Microsoft.

Then I found out that Pages does a superior job at converting the .docx files than Microsoft's program does. Pages opens up .docx just fine.

Even Leopard's TextEdit can open .docx files. The only program on my Leopard system that can't open Word files is…Word.

Jawbone54 · Dec 15, 2008, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

Well, Jim and Pam being together does take a lot of drama from the show, but it's still consistently funny.

Definitely where my mind was when I clicked on the thread.

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Where's the poll option for "I don't use this ****"?

You're just upset because so many people apparently loathe you. Deeply.

Actually, I only keep Office '08 on my computer for the idiots that keep sending me .docx files. I can't do that with Pages, can I?

Speaking of Pages, I've actually been using it for writing. Or NeoOffice. Or TextEdit (not kidding). I'd rather use anything over office '08.

Dakar V · Dec 15, 2008, 04:50 PM

Hahaha, I think one of them might be serious. Makes my day.

ghporter · Dec 15, 2008, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

So how long did it take you to figure out that the Windows logo was actually a button, and took place of most of the File menu options like Page Setup and Print. Took me about 20 minutes. I was trying to figure out why Word would completely crash when hitting the Print button or Control-P. I also couldn't get to Page Setup because I didn't know the keyboard shortcut for it. Luckily no one was in the room, but it was 20 minutes of "Where the f**k is the god damn Print menu?!"

Turns out that for some reason Page Setup had the document size set to something weird that the printer didn't support. So instead of telling me that, Word just crashed.

The print menu was the way I figured this stuff out too. And man was it frustrating! It too me something like 20-30 minutes to puzzle out what to do, with the help of Help (which amazingly enough WAS helpful). I also found out how to leave certain controls in that upper left corner space so I wouldn't have to go searching for "save as" and "print" again. What a pain!

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Even Leopard's TextEdit can open .docx files. The only program on my Leopard system that can't open Word files is…Word.

You're kidding! I wish I'd known that a LONG time ago. RATS!!!

olePigeon · Dec 15, 2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Actually, I only keep Office '08 on my computer for the idiots that keep sending me .docx files. I can't do that with Pages, can I?

Speaking of Pages, I've actually been using it for writing. Or NeoOffice. Or TextEdit (not kidding). I'd rather use anything over office '08.

Yes, Pages can open it. Also,

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Even Leopard's TextEdit can open .docx files. The only program on my Leopard system that can't open Word files is…Word.

Jawbone54 · Dec 15, 2008, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Hahaha, I think one of them might be serious. Makes my day.

Yup. Me.

Watch your back, Dakky!

Jawbone54 · Dec 15, 2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Yes, Pages can open it. Also,

I'd like to say that I'm amazed that I didn't know this by now, but I overlook options all the time.

Thanks, BTW. You've saved me some future headaches (aaaaand, I missed Chuckit's post).

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 15, 2008, 05:48 PM

The thing that blows my mind is that word takes longer to launch than photoshop and it is just a simple word processor.

Entourage takes about 3 minutes to launch at work.

Chuckit · Dec 15, 2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

The thing that blows my mind is that word takes longer to launch than photoshop and it is just a simple word processor.

Entourage takes about 3 minutes to launch at work.

Correction: Word is not just a simple word processor. It's a gigantic, bloated, complex word processor.

ghporter · Dec 15, 2008, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Correction: Word is not just a simple word processor. It's a gigantic, bloated, complex word processor.

It's more like a crippled, gigantic and bloated publishing suite than a word processor. Using Word just as a word processor is like getting the biggest Swiss Army knife there is, with all the various tools and gadgets, just to use the toothpick from it. While I've been able to take advantage of many of the features of Word over the years, the biggest things I do with it are simple things like rearranging text based data, sorting lists and other stuff that the combination of a pretty good find/replace function and decent table management allow you to do. I particularly like to make faux databases in Excel by collecting and arranging the data in Word tables first... So yes, I'm using the large pipe wrench to drive nails, but I'm getting my job done.

turtle777 · Dec 15, 2008, 06:29 PM

We really should get a M$ bashing subforum

-t

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2008, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It's more like a crippled, gigantic and bloated publishing suite than a word processor. Using Word just as a word processor is like getting the biggest Swiss Army knife there is, with all the various tools and gadgets, just to use the toothpick from it. While I've been able to take advantage of many of the features of Word over the years, the biggest things I do with it are simple things like rearranging text based data, sorting lists and other stuff that the combination of a pretty good find/replace function and decent table management allow you to do. I particularly like to make faux databases in Excel by collecting and arranging the data in Word tables first... So yes, I'm using the large pipe wrench to drive nails, but I'm getting my job done.

It's more like using the scissors off said army knife. The difference is that you can just pull out the toothpick, and the rest of the huge clunker is not going to constantly be in your way while you're trying to get things done.

ghporter · Dec 15, 2008, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

It's more like using the scissors off said army knife. The difference is that you can just pull out the toothpick, and the rest of the huge clunker is not going to constantly be in your way while you're trying to get things done.

Much better analogy!

analogue SPRINKLES · Dec 15, 2008, 07:46 PM

MS is becoming less and less important. If they stopped making office everyone could use the current version for the next 5 years and be fine. In that time google web apps will take over.

besson3c · Dec 15, 2008, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

MS is becoming less and less important. If they stopped making office everyone could use the current version for the next 5 years and be fine. In that time google web apps will take over.

Not until Google allows you to own your own data on your own servers.

Railroader · Dec 15, 2008, 07:56 PM

I voted for every option, but I pressed the Mighty Mouse™ much firmer on the last option.

I just wish it wasn't a public poll so he could be frustrated a bit...

Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 08:01 PM

I'm confused. There have been 21 voters so far, but only 10 votes for "Dakar V is worse." This is a travesty.

Railroader · Dec 15, 2008, 08:42 PM

Some people just are afraid of the repercussions of the public poll. I blame Dakar entirely.

Jawbone54 · Dec 15, 2008, 08:50 PM

I went back and voted for him AGAIN.

On my super-duper secret secondary account.

Railroader · Dec 15, 2008, 09:15 PM

"Oisín"?

Oisín · Dec 15, 2008, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

"Oisín"?

No, the other one!

Dakar V · Dec 15, 2008, 10:19 PM

If only I cared enough to have my past accounts vote against me.

Dakar V · Dec 15, 2008, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

the Mighty Mouse™.

Originally Posted by Laminar

This is a travesty.

Seriously, who uses those?

finboy · Dec 15, 2008, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

What REALLY irks me about Office 2007 (yes, the Windows version) is that they radically changed the WHOLE USER INTERFACE.

As someone who has typeset books in WordPerfect 5.1, I feel your pain.

It's absolutely counterintuitive in many ways, and there are things that CANNOT BE DONE (or undone) in "Compatibility Mode" that were originally done in Office 2003. Absolutely insane. I know several people who've moved to the NeoOffice or whatever it is just to avoid the formatting and file problems with MS 2007.

I'll agree that our 2008 is really slow. I have a MB 2.2 with 4G RAM and a 320 HD, and it grinds from time to time, usually when I need it to NOT grind.

macintologist · Dec 15, 2008, 11:25 PM

Office 2003 on my university PCs runs really fast, there is no lag and it's awesome. Office 2008 is dog slow. I hate Microsh*t

Laminar · Dec 15, 2008, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by macintologist

Office 2003 on my university PCs runs really fast, there is no lag and it's awesome. Office 2008 is dog slow. I hate Microsh*t

Besides Word trying to format anything and everything for me, 2003 wasn't awful. The funny things is that company I interned with still used Office 1997, and there were no major differences. Files were compatible, the buttons were there, Excel worked the same. The biggest difference I could find was that Office apps handled picture files poorly compared to 2003. It looks like they undid that for 2008, though, since I tried to make a Powerpoint of photographs recently and it fought me every step of the way.

Oisín · Dec 16, 2008, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Seriously, who uses those?

*raises hand*

Dakar V · Dec 16, 2008, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Oisín

*raises hand*

Even for you that's pretty gay.

Oisín · Dec 16, 2008, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar V

Even for you that's pretty gay.

Happy not to disappoint.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 16, 2008, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by finboy

It's absolutely counterintuitive in many ways, and there are things that CANNOT BE DONE (or undone) in "Compatibility Mode" that were originally done in Office 2003. Absolutely insane. I know several people who've moved to the NeoOffice or whatever it is just to avoid the formatting and file problems with MS 2007.

This is the single Good Thing™ about Office 2007/2008:

It's pushing people towards the alternatives. From anecdotal evidence, I see a *lot* of people who are switching to OpenOffice/NeoOffice as a real, viable business alternative, much like Vista has been pushing people towards Linux and the Mac.