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Remember Sweden (Page 2)
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P
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:37 AM
 
The rape thing again? I think I have explained that before - the definition of rape is broader in Sweden. And the total amount of violent crime is trending down slowly from 1990 (from the same Politifact piece you quoted yourself higher up in the thread).

Addendum: Numbeo uses crowd sourced data, and the questions regarding safety are solely based on perceived risks. India has a 30 % higher murder rate and much higher levels of corruption, so it is quite dubious that India's safety index is that high.
I can sign up right now and post my opinion, just by saying that I'm from Sweden. There are less than 1000 submissions there right now, so it would be very quick to move the needle on something like this. Makes me wonder how may submissions Numbeo has had over the last two weeks or so.
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The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
To be a little serious, isn't this whole freedom thing partially a matter of definition?

I mean, couldn't universal health care be considered a freedom? You could make the argument either way, I guess. As far as freedom to gun up, is there such thing as a freedom of not having to worry as much about being shot at?
Yes. Not having to worry about how you're going to get treatment definitely counts as a freedom for me.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Because he's obviously suffering from Stockholm syndrome, if he believes Sweden doesn't have a migrant problem, esp WRT violent crime.
Why do you claim to know better than P, who lives there? Contrary to your belief, neither migrants nor refugees cause a huge spike in violent crime (there was none in Germany as well).
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Maybe because the rape rates are higher in Sweden than India?
Sweden has much broader notion of what constitutes rape in the legal sense, and has consistently had higher numbers of reported rapes than its immediate neighbors (even as early as 1996 about 3x the European average). Marital rape in India is legal, and much less rapes are actually reported. (Perhaps you remember the scandalous string gang rapes of young women in India.)

Just googling up random statistics without understanding how to compare and interpret them is kinda pointless.
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Laminar
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Feb 23, 2017, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm suggesting he doesn't read or understand the news.
Which news, out of curiosity? What are your sources?
     
Paco500
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Feb 23, 2017, 07:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Which news, out of curiosity? What are your sources?
Reuters and the AP. But not any of the wing-nut, alt-right, echo-chamber sites he's constantly quoting and posting memes and videos from.

Nope, he's a hard news man.
     
subego
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Feb 24, 2017, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
To be a little serious, isn't this whole freedom thing partially a matter of definition?

I mean, couldn't universal health care be considered a freedom? You could make the argument either way, I guess. As far as freedom to gun up, is there such thing as a freedom of not having to worry as much about being shot at?
Did you often worry about being shot at when you were here?

Honest question. I have yet to myself (knock on wood), but admittedly I've always lived in places where people pretty much don't get shot.

I think health care can be considered a freedom, but there are material differences between it and being able to gun up. The health care freedom does not exist unless it's paid for. Not the case with being able to get a gun.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 05:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think health care can be considered a freedom, but there are material differences between it and being able to gun up. The health care freedom does not exist unless it's paid for. Not the case with being able to get a gun.
There is absolutely a price for being able to "gun up". Its not paid in dollars is all.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 05:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I can't speak for Sweden, but in Germany there is still very, very broad support to take on refugees, the right of asylum is baked into our cultural DNA and is a right of constitutional rank. (Out of curiosity, is that also true in Sweden?)
Yes, I think that we are very similar in that respect. There is a strong feeling of wanting to help those who need it, and even now when the borders are effectively closed, we still like to talk a good game.
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Feb 24, 2017, 06:27 AM
 
Seems like another certain shining example of humanity gets his "news" from the same place....

Reality Check: Is Malmo the rape capital of Europe? - BBC News
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Feb 24, 2017, 06:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
There is absolutely a price for being able to "gun up". Its not paid in dollars is all.
That's a fair point, but is the distinction I'm trying to make unclear?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 24, 2017, 07:04 AM
 
No, that was a side point.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 07:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Seems like another certain shining example of humanity gets his "news" from the same place....

Reality Check: Is Malmo the rape capital of Europe? - BBC News
From that article:

Mr Farage said there had been no specific terrorist attacks in Sweden since large numbers of refugees arrived there,
He's wrong about that too, but the specific terrorist attack that DID happen was a White supremacist (with a sword!), which doesn't fit his poorly veiled agenda.
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besson3c
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Feb 24, 2017, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Did you often worry about being shot at when you were here?

Honest question. I have yet to myself (knock on wood), but admittedly I've always lived in places where people pretty much don't get shot.

I think health care can be considered a freedom, but there are material differences between it and being able to gun up. The health care freedom does not exist unless it's paid for. Not the case with being able to get a gun.

I haven't, but I had my house broken into (thankfully while we weren't there). I would be fearful if I was black in some circumstances. Where I used to live was not far away from former KKK headquarters, for example.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 12:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Why do you claim to know better than P, who lives there? Contrary to your belief, neither migrants nor refugees cause a huge spike in violent crime (there was none in Germany as well).
"How dare you question someone who lives there (ignoring that he does the same all the time)."

Sweden has much broader notion of what constitutes rape in the legal sense, and has consistently had higher numbers of reported rapes than its immediate neighbors
Likely because, since the mid-70s, they've taken in so many more migrants from countries that think ****ing a woman against her will isn't a bad thing. "They don't know better, it's their old culture...", or some BS like that.

Just googling up random statistics without understanding how to compare and interpret them is kinda pointless.
Not to mention, just looking at the raw stats blows up Sweden's Narrative.
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Feb 24, 2017, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Which news, out of curiosity? What are your sources?
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Reuters and the AP. But not any of the wing-nut, alt-right, echo-chamber sites he's constantly quoting and posting memes and videos from.

Nope, he's a hard news man.
"How come you can't argue without attacking the other member, you're so mean." GTFO.
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Laminar
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Feb 24, 2017, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Not to mention, just looking at the raw stats blows up Sweden's Narrative.
But...like...which raw stats?
     
Paco500
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Feb 24, 2017, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"How come you can't argue without attacking the other member, you're so mean." GTFO.
Are you so thick that you are still under the misapprehension that I am arguing with you? What would be the point? You can't have an argument with someone with no regard for truth or a basic understanding of evidence and facts. You don't argue, you make absurd pronouncements and back them up with fallacious appeals to your own make-believe authority and sources you have either not read or not understood. With an occasional alt-right meme, video, or emoji thrown in for good measure.

Arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with a porta-potty. It's not going to get anyone anywhere.

All I'm doing is pointing out your bullshit to the class. With facts.

And sometimes sarcasm. Because that's fun.
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 06:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Are you so thick that you are still under the misapprehension that I am arguing with you? What would be the point? You can't have an argument with someone with no regard for truth or a basic understanding of evidence and facts. You don't argue, you make absurd pronouncements and back them up with fallacious appeals to your own make-believe authority and sources you have either not read or not understood. With an occasional alt-right meme, video, or emoji thrown in for good measure.

Arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with a porta-potty. It's not going to get anyone anywhere.

All I'm doing is pointing out your bullshit to the class. With facts.

And sometimes sarcasm. Because that's fun.
That's certainly worth a co-sign.

OAW
( Last edited by OAW; Feb 24, 2017 at 11:10 PM. )
     
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Feb 24, 2017, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post

Arguing with you is as pointless as arguing with a porta-potty. It's not going to get anyone anywhere.

All I'm doing is pointing out your bullshit to the class. With facts.

And sometimes sarcasm. Because that's fun.

I feel bad for dog piling, but me three. I also enjoy mocking some of your reprehensible ass-backward beliefs and attitudes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
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Feb 25, 2017, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Are you so thick that you are still under the misapprehension that I am arguing with you? What would be the point? *bitchy tantrum*
This is why we can't have nice things. Take Waragainstsleep and seek counseling, most of this I believe is likely a symptom of emotional abuse as a child, but whatever it is, there's no reason for anyone with an opposing view to ever engage you, at least not more than once. No one should ever dislike someone else this much, it's unhealthy and will only lead to your own early demise. It's exactly the same as taking poison just to spite someone else. These jabs and attacks do nothing to me, they tear down your own arguments, and they're much worse for you.

So while I think you're a crappy person with numerous bats flying around in your belfry, I don't believe that should happen to you and would rather you learn to deal with these situations in a more healthy manner. Why the admins allow you to continue spewing your rancor is a mystery, it's unhealthy for the forum and much worse for you.
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Feb 25, 2017, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
That's certainly worth a co-sign.

OAW
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I feel bad for dog piling, but me three. I also enjoy mocking some of your reprehensible ass-backward beliefs and attitudes.
and you two are almost as bad. This type of schoolyard shit hurts you far more than it could me.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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OAW
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Feb 25, 2017, 01:57 PM
 
^^^

Well you could always simply dispense with the constant unsubstantiated BS and eliminate yourself as the subject of such well-deserved mockery. But that would be too much like right and we wouldn't want you to strain yourself. So do carry on and pretend to be "above the fray" right on the heels of hurling "mental health" insults. That's just so CTP!!! And most amusing.

OAW
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 25, 2017, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No one should ever dislike someone else this much, it's unhealthy and will only lead to your own early demise.
I was about to ask you what constitutes a good reason to dislike someone but then I remembered that being easily offended or being a woman are just two reasons that are usually good enough for you.

Here is the thing, if someone holds views that you find reprehensible and difficult or impossible to justify and if you think such people are ultimately doing harm to society and generally holding back the human race, that isn't a pretty good reason to take a dislike to them?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 26, 2017, 01:05 PM
 
^^ Thanks for the demonstrations. I AM above it, the 3 of you have severe mental/emotional issues and are simply incapable of having discussions without eventually resorting to abuse. I'm not sure why you're so dysfunctional and hateful, but I imagine it makes you all very unpleasant to know in real life, and why your personal relationships have suffered so much (others simply don't want to be around you). Get therapy, ASAP.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
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Feb 26, 2017, 01:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
^^ Thanks for the demonstrations. I AM above it, the 3 of you have severe mental/emotional issues and are simply incapable of having discussions without eventually resorting to abuse. I'm not sure why you're so dysfunctional and hateful, but I imagine it makes you all very unpleasant to know in real life, and why your personal relationships have suffered so much (others simply don't want to be around you). Get therapy, ASAP.

So would you say that you have no annoying personal traits that you display here on MacNN with how you debate, and that you are comfortable with being wrong?
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 26, 2017, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
So would you say that you have no annoying personal traits that you display here on MacNN with how you debate, and that you are comfortable with being wrong?
Of course I have traits that could annoy, everyone does, but I don't hate (or even strongly dislike) anyone here. Nothing justifies their constant attacks of a personal nature, however, which only serve to harm them over time (I'm immune to their bile, otherwise I would have left MacNN long ago). You can't swallow that much emotional poison, day-in and day-out, without it taking a toll on your humanity and health, eventually killing you.
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Paco500
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Feb 26, 2017, 02:15 PM
 
I'll say this one more time, and maybe it will sink in. I don't hate you, I find you comical. It perhaps feeds your demonstrably feeble ego to believe I post in anger, but the plain and simple truth is that I find it funny. While the personality combination of unbridled self-assurance and incompetence is not pleasant, it's not worthy of my hate. My usual reaction is just eye-rolling and, when it gets too egregious, pointing and laughing. But please, and this is important, don't think for a minute the way I feel has anything to do with your beliefs or your politics. It's just you.

No, if I were to feel hate, it would be for something, or someone, who actually mattered.

As for the psycho-babble twaddle, it's this your way of laying the ground work for adding a pretend psychology degree to your plethora of fake qualifications?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 26, 2017, 04:02 PM
 
I don't like hypocritical bigots who hate women, liberals, progress and other races or religions. I don't think I need help to fix that. The fact that so many people are so accepting of people like that is why Britain is still full of Brexit voting morons and America is still full of Trump/Republican voting assholes.

I don't hate you on a personal level really. I understand that you are the product of your culture, upbringing and environment, but you and people like you are holding humanity back from being what it can be. You are the thing that makes idealism unrealistic. Its a kind of thinking we need to remove from society altogether, but because we aren't awful and unlike many who think the way you do, we have to do it using education and reasoning and even these tools are being deliberately undermined by people like you at every turn.
Its not feminism thats the cancer. It doesn't seem fair to call it conservatism, for lack of a better label its conservatism thats the cancer.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
OAW
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Feb 26, 2017, 04:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I'll say this one more time, and maybe it will sink in. I don't hate you, I find you comical. It perhaps feeds your demonstrably feeble ego to believe I post in anger, but the plain and simple truth is that I find it funny. While the personality combination of unbridled self-assurance and incompetence is not pleasant, it's not worthy of my hate. My usual reaction is just eye-rolling and, when it gets too egregious, pointing and laughing. But please, and this is important, don't think for a minute the way I feel has anything to do with your beliefs or your politics. It's just you.
And again. This is indeed worthy of a co-sign.

As for the psycho-babble twaddle, it's this your way of laying the ground work for adding a pretend psychology degree to your plethora of fake qualifications?


OAW
     
besson3c
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Feb 26, 2017, 04:53 PM
 
and my +1. I've never hated CTP, I just find the combination of insecurities and relentless persistence to be both amusing and, at times, annoying.
     
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Feb 26, 2017, 07:10 PM
 
Good, the trio has replied, hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.

Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
I'll say this one more time, and maybe it will sink in. I don't hate you, I find you comical.
I'll say this one more time, you're vile in a way that you apparently don't realize. Either that's the case, or you're lying. At this point I believe it's a coin flip. If I am as deluded and oafish as you claim, that simply makes you a bully of the worst sort. (I don't believe that, however, and think you're merely a nasty person who's had some really bad things done to them. Someone to be pitied.)

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I don't like hypocritical bigots who hate women, liberals, progress and other races or religions. I don't think I need help to fix that.
I'm not any of those things, because I literally don't hate anyone. At worst I feel apathy and/or disgust for the scummiest of people, those who abuse children and maliciously harm of those who are disadvantaged.

Originally Posted by OAW View Post
And again. This is indeed worthy of a co-sign.
and the cheerleader brings up the rear...

So far I'm not holding out much hope for you guys.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OAW
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Feb 26, 2017, 10:45 PM
 
^^^

Perhaps one day you will come to realize that it is your arrogant insistence upon unsubstantiated BS along with your incessant delusions of grandeur that have rendered you to the status of a JOKE around here. By FAR MORE members than those of us involved in this particular exchange. But go ahead and keep on being our Resident Forum Internet Expert. That's been working out for you just splendidly thus far.

OAW
     
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Feb 27, 2017, 09:51 AM
 
^^^^^^^^^^
Animated meme time!
45/47
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 27, 2017, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
^^^

Perhaps one day you will come to realize that it is your arrogant insistence upon unsubstantiated BS along with your incessant delusions of grandeur that have rendered you to the status of a JOKE around here. By FAR MORE members than those of us involved in this particular exchange. But go ahead and keep on being our Resident Forum Internet Expert. That's been working out for you just splendidly thus far.
You haven't figured out that you are what you claim I am, manipulating and distorting everything you touch. It has worked out for me, which is why so many here lose their continence whenever I post, following me around to hurl insults. I find it entertaining, but the problem is you annoy the crap out of everyone else and you're only harming yourself. Other members ask me how we can bury the hatchet, but I'm not the one who is perpetrating the attacks or piling on.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
OAW
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Feb 27, 2017, 02:01 PM
 


OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 27, 2017, 04:36 PM
 
and now he's back into denial after yet another attack came back to bite him...
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nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
 
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