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And now it's our turn... UK election thread of partisan shouting! (Page 2)
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 06:58 AM
 
Scotland. Voting in Scotland was a sign that even many SNP supporters do not want IndyRef2. The Scottish Tories have at least spared May the ultimate embarrassment (for now). It looks like people voted either way to overturn SNP seats. Scottish Labour should have done better but Dugdale is very cool on Corbyn and has paid the price for distancing herself from him and his policies, leaving the Tories to scoop up some seats.

It looks like UKIP voters failed to go to the Tories in anywhere near the numbers TM was hoping so they failed to scoop up Labour seats with big UKIP votes previously. Meanwhile the Tory seats with large young and remain populations DID fall to Labour.

It was a great night for Corbyn, even quite hard core anti Corbyn MP's (Margaret Beckett, Watson et al) are now pretending that they like him, and always thought he could do it. Hopefully the PLP will now shut the f**k up and let Labour get on with consolidating.

Will TM survice? Initially I thought not and it's still a close call. Her party will be really hating her now for her unnecessary election and then her shocking performance. They will certainly never let her fight another one. However, the most likely candidate, Amber Rudd got a shafting in her seat and now only has a 300ish majority, not enough for a leader to sit on, and has been proved unpopular. (hint: she's a city friendly tax dodging far right monster). I can't see Boris being an acceptable negotiator for Brexit and there are few other Tory heavyweights who would want the job so it may be that May keeps her job because no one else wants it.

I imagine we could be doing all this again next summer.
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Jun 9, 2017, 08:00 AM
 
Is "city friendly" good or bad?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 9, 2017, 08:24 AM
 
City as in Wall Street. Or the LSE in our case I guess.
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Jun 9, 2017, 08:25 AM
 
Looks like she's clinging on.

Nuttall quit which is good, door is open for Farage which is dreadful. Can't we hand him over to the FBI?
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
City as in Wall Street. Or the LSE in our case I guess.
She liked to portray herself as an expert on the city and pretend she had a pre politics career as a highly successful trader.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...-rudds-8972936

In reality her brother gave her a job in his company and two of the funds she managed were prosecuted for fraud.

She's involved with off shore tax havens and her father was also struck off for unethical business practises.

She's a delightful piece of work.
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Jun 9, 2017, 12:38 PM
 
And now she's jeopardising the peace in Northern Ireland to further her own personal agendas.

The more I learn about her the less I like her. She is absolutely despicable. Still better than Trump, but just awful.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 12:42 PM
 
And now we get an unofficial coalition with the delightfully right wing DUP party. Waiting to see what they want to extract from the Tories in return for support but the danger with this is that May gains 10 votes from the far right on any given issue but sheds 50 or 60 appalled leftist MPs from her own party in return.

DUP happily anti abortion (even in cases of rape), anti europe, very anti the pope, quite keen on creationism,
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Jun 9, 2017, 03:21 PM
 
I always forget NI has a bunch of angry creationist nutters.

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Jun 9, 2017, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
This is bizarre. Is it anti-brexit or anti-Trump backlash?
This was all about May looking to restrict the internet and freedom of speech. 5 days ago:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7771896.html
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Jun 9, 2017, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
This was all about May looking to restrict the internet and freedom of speech. 5 days ago:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7771896.html
She's been saying that since she became Home Sec in what, 2011 or something? Do you mean that the electorate just noticed?

No, I think that this is the mirror image of the US election. The electorate decided that while they don't like Corbyn, they don't actually like May either, and the more they got to know her, the less they liked.
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Jun 9, 2017, 04:18 PM
 
The hope for us liberals here is if Brexit presaged Trumps election, this drop in Conservative support also presages '18 midterms.

Then again if there is another UK election this year that'll probably be more predictive
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
This was all about May looking to restrict the internet and freedom of speech. 5 days ago:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7771896.html
Congratulations you have weighed in and highlighted probably the least important (to voters) reason for people not voting for Theresa May.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
The electorate decided that while they don't like Corbyn, they don't actually like May either, and the more they got to know her, the less they liked.
The electorate most decidedly DID like Corbyn. Verty much the more they saw him the more they liked him. Especially younger voters who have never and would never be motivated to vote because they disliked someone else. They've disliked politicians for years and not voted.

Certainly Robo-May helped by becoming increasingly unlikable, but without Corbyn's rising popularity this would have resulted in just a lowering of turnout.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 9, 2017, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The hope for us liberals here is if Brexit presaged Trumps election, this drop in Conservative support also presages '18 midterms.

Then again if there is another UK election this year that'll probably be more predictive
Not this year, unless the tories manage to royally screw up (again). Maybe next summer. This minority government is too fragile to go the 5 years and the Tories don't have the talent to keep out of trouble for the whole term either.

I think in order to emulate this election your system will need to throw up a figure that the people can get behind. Another Clinton-a-like won't cut it. Is Bernie that person? I don't know enough to judge.
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Jun 9, 2017, 06:19 PM
 
I see May got her coalition.
     
subego
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Jun 9, 2017, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Not this year, unless the tories manage to royally screw up (again). Maybe next summer. This minority government is too fragile to go the 5 years and the Tories don't have the talent to keep out of trouble for the whole term either.

I think in order to emulate this election your system will need to throw up a figure that the people can get behind. Another Clinton-a-like won't cut it. Is Bernie that person? I don't know enough to judge.
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Jun 9, 2017, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Congratulations you have weighed in and highlighted probably the least important (to voters) reason for people not voting for Theresa May.
You're out of touch and a few days can be an eternity online. Given the backlash on various social networks, it certainly isn't "the least important reason", at all. People were losing their shit (much like they did over the Comey statement in our election). But I don't expect you to understand just how deeply your rights have been eroded already. Her recent proposal simply pushed some people over the line.
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Jun 10, 2017, 04:48 AM
 
So if this election was a calculated risk, and the referendum was a calculated risk... maybe tories shouldn't take any more calculated risks for a while - or at least learn some basic math.

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I think in order to emulate this election your system will need to throw up a figure that the people can get behind. Another Clinton-a-like won't cut it. Is Bernie that person? I don't know enough to judge.
Not to go too far off on a tangent, but I think the Dems need a younger candidate to rally behind. Sanders was old already last time.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 10, 2017, 06:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're out of touch and a few days can be an eternity online. Given the backlash on various social networks, it certainly isn't "the least important reason", at all. People were losing their shit (much like they did over the Comey statement in our election). But I don't expect you to understand just how deeply your rights have been eroded already. Her recent proposal simply pushed some people over the line.
Don't get me wrong, it's an important, even vital issue and one that will over the coming months get talked about, debated and hopefully forgotten. Theresa May has many bigger problem trying to stay afloat than this one.

To say it played any part (let alone the biggest part) in anyones voting intentions is grossly misinformed. It was a zero effect issue. no one mentioned, no one talked about it, no one voted because of it. No one was "loosing their shit" over it. I'm sure your alt right corner if the US INternet may have pretended there was, but here, in the UK on the ground, it meant nothing.

And do try to avoid playing the "I'm right because you just don't get it" card every single time.
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Jun 10, 2017, 07:11 AM
 
^^ Like I said, out of touch. And it isn't because "you just don't get it", it's because you're old, in both body and mind, and don't understand what a younger generation values (hint: it's freedom on the internet).
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Jun 10, 2017, 07:55 AM
 
^^^
But the internet hosting services all have TOS agreements and technically everything you post to anywhere becomes their property. I don't see how that is free internet.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 10, 2017, 08:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
^^ Like I said, out of touch. And it isn't because "you just don't get it", it's because you're old, in both body and mind, and don't understand what a younger generation values (hint: it's freedom on the internet).
Saying don't make it so. ALL the evidence I have seen says you are wrong. And all the people I have talked to, since unlike you I was out delivering Labour Party material and talking to people on doorsteps. I also have two university aged children. Both engaged with the. Election. Neither thought it an issue. Nor did any of heir friends.
Give me some evidence from your high castle over there and I'll believe you. Mr

Again. Saying it don't make it so.
Show me.
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Jun 10, 2017, 09:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Saying don't make it so. ALL the evidence I have seen says you are wrong. And all the people I have talked to, since unlike you I was out delivering Labour Party material and talking to people on doorsteps. I also have two university aged children. Both engaged with the. Election. Neither thought it an issue. Nor did any of heir friends.
Give me some evidence from your high castle over there and I'll believe you. Mr

Again. Saying it don't make it so.
Show me.
My son is just shy of University/Voting age and the issue with his peer group was 95% university fees. Well, most of them voted lib dem in the mock election because of their position on pot legalisation, but that was mostly a goof. I had many, many conversations with the kids, and May's snoopers charter, etc came up because they are all technically literate, but the prevailing opinion on that was that it would either A: never happen or B: be impossible to enforce and was therefore inconsequential.

No matter their natural political inclinations, which, based on where I live, definitely leans towards pro-brexit/conservative, I believe they all would have voted Labor because of university fees.

That was what drove the youth vote. The old folks hated May on social care, and those of us in the middle just didn't like her at all by the time the election rolled around.

She also lost the law and order 'I will keep you safe' vote which should have been a no-brainer for a Tory former home secretary, but bad shit has happened on her watch and she gutted the police.

The polls have been trending towards this outcome for weeks.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 10, 2017, 09:27 AM
 
I feel there's a bit of a slow burn starting here. Yesterday the mood was settling on letting TM carry on at least Neil something goes wrong. Today there's suddenly a lot more "she should go" sentiment starting to kick in.
I've heard a lot of very angry Tory supporters weighing in against her.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 10, 2017, 12:00 PM
 
And here's a thing...


Apparently the House of Lords is only. Kind to pass legislation that has been presented to the U.K. electorate and put forward by a majority government.
This would according to Sky News meant they are free to block Brexit (legislation then don't like.

I bet TM is glad that she's enraged Rupert Mirdoch now.
EDIT: It appears Sky may have made this up. The 1911 Parliament act is confusing on this.
( Last edited by Doc HM; Jun 10, 2017 at 12:46 PM. )
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Jun 10, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Saying don't make it so. ALL the evidence I have seen says you are wrong. And all the people I have talked to, since unlike you I was out delivering Labour Party material and talking to people on doorsteps. I also have two university aged children. Both engaged with the. Election. Neither thought it an issue. Nor did any of heir friends.
Give me some evidence from your high castle over there and I'll believe you. Mr

Again. Saying it don't make it so.
Show me.
Saying doesn't make it so, but a quick search on news articles does. I'll see your personal anecdotes and raise you 100s, if not 1000s, of articles written in just a matter of a few days. How many do you need before you realize this was an important factor? How many dozens of outraged threads (on Reddit alone), with 1000s of comments each, do you require? Lesson: Try to regulate the internet and you'll get ****ed, it's pretty simple. Your country has been raked over the coals with snooping and invasion of privacy by your gov't, and this pushed folks over the edge.
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 10, 2017, 12:31 PM
 
Wow!
A link to a google search that proves that yes indeed the government DID intend to pass this legislation and news reports are saying that she did. And yo'ure right those anonymous internet comments do indeed seem to be commenting on the article they are attaché to.

Send me a link to an article that proves your assertion that it was this one policy that was the single over riding cause of their defamation and I'll change my time. Otherwise ...

Ps. Your subtle backdown from asserting that this was THE major factor to A major factor is noted. I' m happy to compromise ion "it was one of a number of factors that the young particularly thought important when considering who to vote for"
You probably should have gone for a stTemetn like that in the beginning.
( Last edited by Doc HM; Jun 10, 2017 at 12:58 PM. )
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Jun 10, 2017, 03:44 PM
 
The tories are pissed at her for losing an unnecessary gamble so badly and running a terrible campaign to do so. Everyone else is pissed she got straight in bed with a group of terrorist sympathising, religious lunatics and risked undermining the peace in Northern Ireland just to keep her grip on power.
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Jun 10, 2017, 07:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Wow!
A link to a google search that proves that yes indeed the government DID intend to pass this legislation and news reports are saying that she did. And yo'ure right those anonymous internet comments do indeed seem to be commenting on the article they are attaché to.

Send me a link to an article that proves your assertion that it was this one policy that was the single over riding cause of their defamation and I'll change my time. Otherwise ...

Ps. Your subtle backdown from asserting that this was THE major factor to A major factor is noted. I' m happy to compromise ion "it was one of a number of factors that the young particularly thought important when considering who to vote for"
You probably should have gone for a stTemetn like that in the beginning.
W.T.F? Want to talk about "backdowns"?

It was a zero effect issue. no one mentioned, no one talked about it, no one voted because of it. No one was "loosing their shit" over it. I'm sure your alt right corner if the US INternet may have pretended there was, but here, in the UK on the ground, it meant nothing.
Give me some evidence from your high castle over there and I'll believe you. Mr

Again. Saying it don't make it so.
Show me.
My links proved that first comment to be 100% incorrect. It's been mentioned (a lot) in both news articles and social media, it's been talked about (a lot), and people in those threads said it had impacted their voting decision. It in fact DID mean something, you were just out of touch and didn't realize it was a thing. Maybe if you read those comments you'll find out what your fellow countrymen are saying about it, and how pissed off they are over your gov't proposing to trample on your civil liberties, again. Perhaps it's time you took it seriously too, maybe even contact your MP, before discussing terrorism online, or just leveling criticism towards anyone, becomes illegal?
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Jun 10, 2017, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Everyone else is pissed she got straight in bed with a group of terrorist sympathising, religious lunatics and risked undermining the peace in Northern Ireland just to keep her grip on power.
The Muslims? I thought that's what Labour was doing?
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Doc HM  (op)
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Jun 11, 2017, 12:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It in fact DID mean something
Your original assertstion was that it was ALL about this. I did wade through a pile of comments on several links looking for people saying that they were going to vote Labour because of this but found only comments pointing out what a bad idea it is (yup) and that the Tories are idiots for thinking of it (yup) and that people hope they go away (yup).

As I said before perhaps we should agree that it was one small part of people's voting decisions. One dwarved by university fees, social care and the NHS. Even though no one mentioned it to me once at any time. I agree maybe they mentally added it to the list of reasons to not vote Tory. It's a long list.

Perhaps we should both try for more nuance next time.
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Jun 11, 2017, 01:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The tories are pissed at her for losing an unnecessary gamble so badly and running a terrible campaign to do so. Everyone else is pissed she got straight in bed with a group of terrorist sympathising, religious lunatics and risked undermining the peace in Northern Ireland just to keep her grip on power.
So now we can play how long will she last.
While she's been left so weakened I can see why the Tories might feel it's better to actually keep her around. That way she gets to carry the heat for whatever Brexit gets negotiated. If it's a mess, well no other leader would be likely to do better. If by a miracle she does ok then she gets to take that away as aconsolation prize.

Some papers are looking to Boris but I'm not sure even his biggest fans think he's the right man at the right time and I would be surprised if Amber Rudd wants anything to do with this mess. She might want to wait for less of a poisoned chalice to be handed her.
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Jun 11, 2017, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Your original assertstion was that it was ALL about this. I did wade through a pile of comments on several links looking for people saying that they were going to vote Labour because of this but found only comments pointing out what a bad idea it is (yup) and that the Tories are idiots for thinking of it (yup) and that people hope they go away (yup).

As I said before perhaps we should agree that it was one small part of people's voting decisions. One dwarved by university fees, social care and the NHS. Even though no one mentioned it to me once at any time. I agree maybe they mentally added it to the list of reasons to not vote Tory. It's a long list.

Perhaps we should both try for more nuance next time.
I guess you're backing away from this rhetoric then?

It was a zero effect issue. no one mentioned, no one talked about it, no one voted because of it. No one was "loosing their shit" over it. I'm sure your alt right corner if the US INternet may have pretended there was, but here, in the UK on the ground, it meant nothing.
It was an issue, a very fresh one that made a specific group of UK citizens angry (perhaps not the class you regularly associate with), people who essentially live their lives online for whatever reason (aka. "neckbeards"). These are folks you plainly don't understand (so you mock them) and who don't care very much about university fees, social care and the NHS. It clearly explains the additional 5-7% swing towards Labour in the final polling days. Hell, it's possible they weren't even going to vote at all until this came up, given how eccentric the reddit and 4chan crowd can be. For these people it's quite possible this was the most important issue.


I didn't address this earlier, because of how absurd it was, but as for being called "alt-right", there's no one on this forum who is alt-right, no one. Not a soul here defends the racist ideas of people like Richard Spencer, this isn't Stormfront, FFS. You even implying such a thing shows how patently myopic your perspective on political matters is, much like SJWs who boldly (and stupidly) proclaim that Western society is some kind of "white supremacist patriarchy".
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Jun 11, 2017, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
much like SJWs who boldly (and stupidly) proclaim that Western society is some kind of "white supremacist patriarchy".
If you didn't bang on about SJWs so much people wouldn't think you were alt-right.
( Last edited by Waragainstsleep; Jun 12, 2017 at 06:10 AM. )
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Jun 11, 2017, 06:51 PM
 
Lets try and clear this up a bit.

This election was supposed to be about Brexit, but it wasn't. I've heard claims that people switched to Labour (or away fro the Tories) to vote against TM's version of a hard Brexit, but as glad as I am its being portrayed that way, I'm not convinced it was much about that at the time of voting.

The Tories have for 7 years been cutting services across the board under the guise of paying down the national debt. They've doubled it. So where has the money gone?
At the same time, there has been a small but quite vocal group of economists telling people that national debt isn't as bad as household debt. That some of it is in fact absolutely essential, and that more isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are people who have come around to this way of thinking. There are many more who don't care and just want to be able to afford to eat properly.
There are stories about people on disability benefits being declared unfairly fit to work and having their benefits slashed. One popular story was about such a woman who was bedridden in hospital and died two days after being told to go back to work. Its anecdotal nonsense, but while the fear-based anecdotes work wonders on the right and the stupid, these sob-stories work just as well on the left and those who are also on benefits and wish to stay that way.

Theresa May tried to fight her Trumpian/Brexit-style campaign on soundbites and repetition but it doesn't work without the fear behind it. Or perhaps British voters just weren't as gullible as Americans and saw that her deeds did not match her claims.
She repeated strong and stable over and over but she wasn't strong enough to face her opponent in debate, to face the media on TV or radio. And she pulled policy U-turns one after the other so there was no sign of stability.
Meanwhile her "unelectable" opponent simply stuck fast to his own more hopeful message, remain strong and stable throughout.

Her rallies were exposed on social media as tiny gathering made to look bigger with camera tricks and the undersize crowds were all carefully selected, as were the people who asked her questions the one time she engaged the public on TV. His rallies were huge and real people really cheered him.

Her policies were insane. She betrayed the pensioners who are the core of her base and the core of Brexit by abandoning the triple lock having promised not to. She then threatened their assets to pay for their care with her so-called 'Dementia Tax'.
She assumed she would get all the voters from UKIP, but while UKIP lost all their support, she failed to realise that there are plenty of working class racists who will never vote Tory.

She called an election to strengthen her position in the Brexit negotiations, but this was a lie because she had the authority to negotiate and no-one but her had any idea what she will ask for or what she will accept. Now she has lost her majority, everyone knows that the UK people do not want a hard brevet after all, so her opponents know much better what she will ask for and what she can accept. She has weakened her position needlessly.

Every step she took in the last fortnight, has been a miss-step. She had a massive lead in the polls against a man who was hated by 90% of the press and the public were eating up the propaganda against him. And she very nearly lost altogether.

Now she has shacked up with a party of hard right, homophobic, misogynistic, pro-life, young Earth creationists with historic links to terrorism in order to cling to power for herself, and in doing so undermined the whole peace process in Northern Ireland where the UK government is supposed to remain impartial.

Its difficult to imagine anything more she could screw up.
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subego
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Jun 11, 2017, 07:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Her rallies were exposed on social media as tiny gathering made to look bigger with camera tricks and the undersize crowds were all carefully selected, as were the people who asked her questions the one time she engaged the public on TV. His rallies were huge and real people really cheered him.
Don't you have media media for this?
     
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Jun 11, 2017, 10:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If you didn't bang on about SJWs so much people wouldn't think you were alt-right.
Since being upset about the antics of one doesn't, at all, mean you're involved with the other, I'll just chalk this up to more idiocy.

Oh, and comrade Corbin is "strong and stable"?
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Jun 12, 2017, 06:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Don't you have media media for this?
Our media has been particularly one-sided during this election and up to it.

Our dead tree media is almost all on the side of the Tories.

The Sun, The Mirror, The Mail, The Telegraph and The Indy were all pro Tory, as were the BBC and in particular their political correspondent. Only The Guardian is really on the left any more, though Apparently former chancellor Osborne's Evening Standard did nothing but chat shit about TM and co. Might be responsible for Labour winning Kensington for the first time in history.

The Beeb and the Indy seem to be prepared to go whichever way the wind blows so the Indy started changing its tune in the last few days and the BBC immediately afterwards.

I'm not saying you're wrong to complain about people you dislike, but there are certain terms which when used or overused strongly imply certain things about your own leanings. When I see someone online use 'SJW' or 'Snowflake' twice in the first couple of tweets I read, I automatically assume they are inclined in certain ways. I'm not often wrong.
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Jun 12, 2017, 06:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Oh, and comrade Corbin is "strong and stable"?
Compare to TM, he has been. She has flip-flopped and U-turned all over the place, including on her manifesto. Run away, hid, thrown her allies under the bus in her place. She was caught multiple times faking her own popularity and planting audience members to throw her soft balls. She looks weak and her policies inconsistent and unstable.

Corbyn meanwhile has stayed on message and just reinforced that message without soundbites or silliness. He has commanded big crowds and just ploughed on with the same ideas and same strategies. He stayed strong while she wobbled, and his message remained stable.

I'm not convinced he would come across as strong or stable under certain other conditions, but during the campaign, yes he was the strong and stable one, not her.
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Jun 12, 2017, 11:11 AM
 
JC is "stable" in that he's not become more unstable. Since he started from a much lower place on the stability scale, however, that's not saying a lot.
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Jun 12, 2017, 01:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post

I didn't address this earlier, because of how absurd it was, but as for being called "alt-right", there's no one on this forum who is alt-right, no one. Not a soul here defends the racist ideas of people like Richard Spencer, this isn't Stormfront, FFS. You even implying such a thing shows how patently myopic your perspective on political matters is, much like SJWs who boldly (and stupidly) proclaim that Western society is some kind of "white supremacist patriarchy".
That's ALT right not FAR right! If this kind of relentless subversion of the argument wasn't a repeat performance for your style of argument I might think it was a typo. But no. It's just you.
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Jun 12, 2017, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
JC is "stable" in that he's not become more unstable. Since he started from a much lower place on the stability scale, however, that's not saying a lot.
Policitcs is as much about how much power you can wield as it is about the numbers.

It was a right leaning Tory lite Labour party that crashed out so spectacularly at the last election. The swing to labour was as large as recent politics has ever seen. In a country as basically middle of the road as the UK there is only so much movement available at any one time. It's a credit to Corbyn that he managed to get pretty much all of it. Oh and to May that she managed to throw so much of it away.

If you give a clapped out old car enough of a head start it will still manage to cross a finish line ahead of the fastest car. It doesn't make the crappy car actually faster.
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Jun 12, 2017, 01:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I guess you're backing away from this rhetoric then?



It was an issue, a very fresh one that made a specific group of UK citizens angry (perhaps not the class you regularly associate with), people who essentially live their lives online for whatever reason (aka. "neckbeards"). These are folks you plainly don't understand (so you mock them) and who don't care very much about university fees, social care and the NHS. It clearly explains the additional 5-7% swing towards Labour in the final polling days. Hell, it's possible they weren't even going to vote at all until this came up, given how eccentric the reddit and 4chan crowd can be. For these people it's quite possible this was the most important issue.
:
Importantly there is NO evidence for any of this. Feel free to call it supposition, but don't bang on into the thread claiming it was ALL about this. And certainly don't present some reddit thread (link broken) as evidence as you have no evidence any of those people actually voted.

The evidence is in the result. We know who voted. Young people, and we know what they voted for, no tuition fees. We know that people voted away from UKIP (not the natural home of the "neckbeard") and some old people voted because they wanted to pass their houses on.

Tuition fees, the NHS, Brexit, security (in the form of police numbers not internet regulation). These are what people voted for and what the evidence shows they voted for.

So, if anyone is rowing back on this it's YOU matey boy. From "it was all about" to "For these people it's quite possible this was the most important issue.". ie maybe for a small undefined bunch of neckbeards it might have been an issue, maybe"

I don't see anyone scrambling to pick up the crucial 4chan voting block.
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Jun 12, 2017, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Its difficult to imagine anything more she could screw up.
We'll she got the announcement about the DUP agreement wrong and now she's delaying her Queens Speech. So it looks like she hasn't quite finished shooting herself in the foot yet.
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Jun 12, 2017, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
The evidence is in the result.
Indeed it is, the wheels didn't completely fly off the cart until after May's "manifesto", as the polls show. Not a single bit of your misplaced snark can refute that change in the last week.

What broken link? This link doesn't work for you? You don't see the 1000s comments and 10s of 1000s of upvotes over the matter? You personally may not place too much importance on the issue, but obviously many of your countrymen do.

It was a zero effect issue. no one mentioned, no one talked about it, no one voted because of it. No one was "loosing their shit" over it. I'm sure your alt right corner if the US INternet may have pretended there was, but here, in the UK on the ground, it meant nothing.
No one has "rowed" harder than you during this discussion, oldtimer.
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Jun 12, 2017, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Indeed it is, the wheels didn't completely fly off the cart until after May's "manifesto", as the polls show. Not a single bit of your misplaced snark can refute that change in the last week.
and that relates to your assertion that it was ALL about teh Internets how and not actually to do with the launch of said (hopeless) manifesto?
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Jun 12, 2017, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
What broken link? This link doesn't work for you? You don't see the 1000s comments and 10s of 1000s of upvotes over the matter? You personally may not place too much importance on the issue, but obviously many of your countrymen do.
Come back to me when they start counting upvotes at the polling station.

Again, ALL about teh internets?
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Jun 12, 2017, 03:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
and that relates to your assertion that it was ALL about teh Internets how and not actually to do with the launch of said (hopeless) manifesto?
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say there.

Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Come back to me when they start counting upvotes at the polling station.

Again, ALL about teh internets?
That's weak. You stated:

It was a zero effect issue. no one mentioned, no one talked about it
and obviously you were wrong. A lot of people were upset over it, enough to make the front page of reddit for 24 hours (which is where I saw it in the first place), and to believe that didn't have an impact, just days before an already contentious election, is obtuse.
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Jun 12, 2017, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say there.



That's weak. You stated:



and obviously you were wrong. A lot of people were upset over it, enough to make the front page of reddit for 24 hours (which is where I saw it in the first place), and to believe that didn't have an impact, just days before an already contentious election, is obtuse.
and obviously you were wrong too.

I am happy to revise my opinion and agree that yes, I missed the (your words) 24 hour blip on Reddit, (that well know election swinging website) and that it was not a zero effect issue, just that the effect was so small it will have had no effect on the result. (which is another way of saying zero effect. While you stated quite baldly that the election was all about this.

My assertion that no one was loosing there stuff over it and that no one mentioned it could have been more accurately phrased as "a tiny section of the internet got excited about it for a short while". I should be more accurate.

How would you like to rephrase YOUR statement?
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Jun 12, 2017, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post

Its difficult to imagine anything more she could screw up.
NOW it's difficult to imagine anything more she could screw up.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/the-du...-6701540/#mv-b
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