[zombie punk]

How does it work? What data is collected? Who has access to it? How long is it held?

[abeato6]

too bad you need an account to use Genius :S. I wanted to use it so badly

[mduell]

Why do you need an account to use a feature that's advertised as anonymous? Fishy...

[JKT]

Read the EULA. All your answers should be there in non-plain-English terms.

[Thinine]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Why do you need an account to use a feature that's advertised as anonymous? Fishy...

Because the recommendations connect to the store and the songs you've bought from there. Buying feature wouldn't work if it didn't have an iTunes account to work with.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by JKT 

Read the EULA. All your answers should be there in non-plain-English terms.

What he said.

I read through that stuff, and it's clearly spelled out who has access, and for what purposes exclusively.

The information is generated from your Library in connection with your store buying behavior, but then completely anonymized. Apple may use it only for recommending services to you or other users, and may not pass any information on to other entities.

[zombie punk]

Thank you - I really couldn't be bothered to RTFEULA.

[analogika]

It would've taken you a lot less time than all of us, including yourself, have put into this thread.

[zombie punk]

I appreciate your help!

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Thank you - I really couldn't be bothered to RTFEULA.

Not at least scanning any and all EULAs before accepting them can get one into some unpleasant situations. For example, if you agree to a EULA that says all the content you create with a particular app is also irrevocably licensed to the software vendor and can be sub-licensed by them without consulting you, your hard work at using that software may wind up not getting you anything and getting the vendor more money at your expense. I'm not naming names, but there IS such a EULA for software used to create web content...

So go ahead and don't read those pesky EULAs, but don't be too surprised/hurt/angry/whatever if something in one of them comes back to bite you in the rear.

[zombie punk]

It's very unlikely that a click through eula like the one you mention would be legal, but thanks for the advice. By reading this post you agree to comply by my terms and conditions, and agree that I pwn you in every way.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Not at least scanning any and all EULAs before accepting them can get one into some unpleasant situations. For example, if you agree to a EULA that says all the content you create with a particular app is also irrevocably licensed to the software vendor and can be sub-licensed by them without consulting you, your hard work at using that software may wind up not getting you anything and getting the vendor more money at your expense. I'm not naming names, but there IS such a EULA for software used to create web content...

So go ahead and don't read those pesky EULAs, but don't be too surprised/hurt/angry/whatever if something in one of them comes back to bite you in the rear.

The Google EULA?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

It's very unlikely that a click through eula like the one you mention would be legal, but thanks for the advice. By reading this post you agree to comply by my terms and conditions, and agree that I pwn you in every way.

Maybe they're enforceable, maybe not. The software makers have more lawyers than you do, so I'd bet that they'd win, logic or not.

[zombie punk]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Maybe they're enforceable, maybe not. The software makers have more lawyers than you do, so I'd bet that they'd win, logic or not.

Then you'd loose most of the time. The majority of cases litigated have not upheld overreaching click through eulas, large numbers of lawyers notwithstanding.

[Veltliner]

Looks like some bright marketers want to make it really, really easy for us to buy music online.

Well, I haven't done so far (I prefer buying a CD, which gives you a better quality file), and now it's even less likely.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Maybe they're enforceable, maybe not. The software makers have more lawyers than you do, so I'd bet that they'd win, logic or not.

If you happen to live in Euroland, it's apparently quite safe to ignore EULAs.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by analogika 

If you happen to live in Euroland, it's apparently quite safe to ignore EULAs.

Good point. But I'll also bet that the publishers are working on getting around that too. Lots of lawyers means lots of trouble... And at least it's good to know what the suits behind software think they can foist onto you, so reading EULAs is a good idea no matter what.

[Veltliner]

What exactly is bothersome with the new iTunes 8?

Does Apple really get to look into your hard drive, into your library what's there?

And under what circumstances?

[analogika]

What I posted over in this thread:

Originally Posted by analogika 

They track which songs you hear together, how often, what your playlists look like, etc., and combine that information with your iTunes Store buying habits and the same info from every other Genius user worldwide, and their own pre-existing database, to determine which songs are likely to go well with what you're using to generate a Genius playlist.

I can see why this might concern people.

I, for one, am extremely wary of all those Payback and other customer bonus card programs, whose sole purpose is to generate a complete and detailed profile of me, my income, my preferences, my bank accounts, credit status, my lifestyle, and my buying habits - to then sell to other companies, and thus to whatever nefarious purposes those companies and their resellers/associates/associates' associates might deem profitable.
Apple themselves already know quite a bit about me, through all the products I've registered with them over the years, through my Apple Store/iTunes Store activity, and everything else I've ever used my Apple ID for.

However,

Originally Posted by analogika 

The information is completely anonymized (as per the EULA), so there is no way to track the massive playcount of "Barbie Girl" to you [….]

Nor could they legally tie unauthorized downloads to your identity, EVEN IF they had any way of distinguishing them (which they don't), because their own EULA is very specific and very limited about what they're allowed to do with the data.

This information may be used ONLY in anonymized form, ONLY by Apple itself, and ONLY to recommend products and services to you and other Genius users who opt into this function (by showing the Genius sidebar or using the Genius playlist service in iTunes).

So if Apple stands by their own EULA (and G-d help them if they don't), it's all good.

[zombie punk]

And, of course, we are assuming that they won't be compelled to hand over data to law enforcement in piracy cases.

[analogika]

We are assuming that they won't be ABLE to hand over data to law enforcement in piracy cases, since a) all data will be completely anonymized (as per their own words), and b) there is absolutely no way that iTunes can determine whether content is pirated or legitimate.

[zombie punk]

Yes, we are assuming that, but we don't know for sure that there is no way to trace that.

[analogika]

Considering that part b) is not an assumption, but simple fact - iTunes CANNOT determine whether content is illegal or legitimate - any information they COULD pass on to law enforcement would be completely useless to them, as it can not in any way link you to anything illegal.

An ISP, however, can, since they have logs of traffic, and they already share their records with the Feds.

You can lie down again; your safety is not at stake if you use the iTunes Genius feature.

[Veltliner]

Well, anonymized or not, I simply don't want to play focus group for a company, even for a company I like.

So, if I switch off the "Genius" feature, I'll have the old iTunes, that doesn't listen into my listening habits?

And, by the way, how do you shut it off securely?

[- - e r i k - -]

It is OPT IN, not OPT OUT.

And even if you did opt in you have to physically make it update every time you want to send data to Apple by hitting "Update Genius", another feature's convenience obliterated by privacy concerns.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

It is OPT IN, not OPT OUT.

And even if you did opt in you have to physically make it update every time you want to send data to Apple by hitting "Update Genius", another feature's convenience obliterated by privacy concerns.

That's good news for me, thanks.