[Russet]

My Ibook, G4, 933, 14 inch, boots up to a blank gray screen. No Apple icon, spinning wheel, nothing. Six months ago I had a new Logic board installed by an apple service center for their flat fee of $350, because of a similar problem. This time I can connect an external monitor and everything works on the external monitor. All programs are accessible and it looks fine. I have searched all over the internet for this particular issue and have found nothing that addresses this particular issue. I found this forum which seems to be the largest and friendliest in hopes that I could get some answers.
Some things I have done so far.

Reset PRAM
Reset PMU
Booted with install Disc
Ran disc utility
Dismantled Ibook and checked cable connections and visually inspected components.

Does anybody have a suggestion on how or what should be done next? I really don’t want to pay another $350 for repairs that are only warranted for 90 days, but I sure miss my laptop. Any help and opinions would be appreciated.

[uicandrew]

what is the warranty of the work done on your ibook? perhaps you can give them a call and tell them your situation. or call apple directly. they have records of work done by authorized apple service providers. They might be able to cut you some slack, but don't mention the dismantling of the ibook part. that kinda voids warranties. good luck!

[Russet]

I had called the apple care line twice,. the second time to talk to the supervisor. He said if I had purchased apple care warranty, it still would have ended 2 months ago, but they would have probably extended the warranty to cover this problem. After begging and pleading and stating a good case, I have purchased or influenced the purchase of at least 10 Mac products over the last year, they still would not cover the repair they did 6 months ago. So it comes down to repair it myself or wait till I can afford a new Laptop.

[Russet]

The repair warranty is only 90 days.

[Hi I'm Ben]

As unhappy as you are I don't see how switching back to presumably windows will be any different than buying a new Mac. Unless I'm totally misinformed, this same situation would occur at Dell, HP, Alienware, and certainly anything you were to build.

I do understand your frustration with this... on one of my iBooks the hard drive broke 5 days after the warranty expired. As unhappy as I was this is just a fact of computer hardware and I had originally chosen NOT to buy the extended warranty.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Hi I'm Ben 

As unhappy as you are I don't see how switching back to presumably windows will be any different than buying a new Mac. Unless I'm totally misinformed, this same situation would occur at Dell, HP, Alienware, and certainly anything you were to build.

I do understand your frustration with this... on one of my iBooks the hard drive broke 5 days after the warranty expired. As unhappy as I was this is just a fact of computer hardware and I had originally chosen NOT to buy the extended warranty.

This might happen with Dell or HP, but their warranties certainly are better - at least you get more than a paltry 90 days phone support. Not only that, but things like crapped-out hard drives are a billion times easier to replace (and designed to be user-serviceable) on a Dell or HP laptop.

Just a thought.

To the OP...if you're feeling adventurous, take the iBook apart yourself and see if you can diagnose the problem. It sounds like the video cable isn't doing what it's supposed to do - a gray screen with nothing on it generally means that it's not getting a video signal. The cable may be crimped or damaged, or the connection may have just come loose from the logic board.

[Russet]

So far I have taken my ibook apart 3 times (thanks ifixit.com for the detailed instructions). I've tried various fixes, shims on the main chips and static shield based on postings of other g4 users. I've checked the connections of the video cable and checked continuity of the cable even while twisting it. Everything looks good. Stiil have a gray screen but the laptop works fine with an external monitor plugged in.

[shifuimam]

You might want to try a new video cable. I know that some models (e.g. the clamshell iBooks) have pretty cheap cables - my local third-party Apple-certified reseller got me the part for $20.

Those cables are incredibly fragile - if something happens to them, you're likely to lose your video signal entirely. At any rate, that would be my next suggestion. If that doesn't work, then it's possible that the pins on either the LCD end or the logic board end are bent. I once bent a pin on my clamshell's board putting the cable in. It screwed up the video, but it didn't cut it out entirely. However, I would imagine that if you damage certain pins, you'll kill the connection completely...

[Lebensmuede]

Originally Posted by Russet 

My Ibook, G4, 933, 14 inch, boots up to a blank gray screen. No Apple icon, spinning wheel, nothing. Six months ago I had a new Logic board installed by an apple service center for their flat fee of $350, because of a similar problem.

A friend of mine had the exact same iBook and after 3 attempts on Apple's part at replacing the logic board, they finally gave him a 1.4 Ghz 14" iBook as a replacement.

I would remain firm and emphasize that you're not the only iBook owner with such issues and insist that Apple fix the problem to your satisfaction. If not, they should replace it with a new one.

[iMacYouMac]

Is the screen pure gray or is it black? Since hooking up an external monitor works just fine I would say that your logic board is fine. It points to an issue in the lcd. My guess would be the invertor board.

[exlemor]

In response to shifuiman's comment...

"This might happen with Dell or HP, but their warranties certainly are better - at least you get more than a paltry 90 days phone support. Not only that, but things like crapped-out hard drives are a billion times easier to replace (and designed to be user-serviceable) on a Dell or HP laptop."

I'm sorry to say that that statement is not only highly inaccurate but misleading...

1. Far from all of Dell or HP's laptops are user serviceable or even designed to be as you claim.
I've owned quite a few laptops from HP and I have seen first hand about 80 different models of Dell's and HP's laptop.
[I'm a computer consultant and I have to recommend them all the time].

So many laptops even today [eventhough they are slowly getting better], don't allow the user to change
hard drives, access the fans to clean them, change out optical driver and so on and so forth. And the reality is
should users be able to do such things, most end users are very uninformed as to the correct procedures and
precautions to take... and since even in one company such as a Dell or HP, there are 15, 20, etc different styles of cases, and options, it's no surprise that they don't make them user replaceable. [Not that they shouldn't mind you, but
they just haven't as of yet]... Companies like Dell, HP etc especially are against the idea of standardization, after all it goes against their bottom line, they wouldn't be able to sell you an overpriced replacement part then...

And by non-user replacable, I don't count those laptops where you can reach the needed component after removing 15 or so screws and popping off plenty of plastic pieces and equiv.

2. As for the warranty comment being a lot better... obviously you haven't tried getting a hold of Dell or HP and going through the warranty process too many times. With Dell and HP, when you're lucky enough to get an english speaking enough employee on the phone after a long wait, they force you to go through a ridiculously long process even if you know what you are doing, after which they often say "oh yeah you were right it was X" [1-1.5 hrs of wasted time later]. And then if you're lucky enough you will be sent a piece of hardware in a box to fix it yourself. [or in some cases you have to send it in; but that is less and less often the case these days]... For myself, I have only had one little problem so far with my Macbook Pro, strolled in to an Apple Store, spoke to a Genius Bar rep [after 5-10 minutes of waiting time] which is reasonable and the problem was resolved about 5 minutes later... [I did buy a warranty on it I have to say which for a laptop at the price Apple sells both the laptop and the warranty is in my book not a bad choice]...

As for going back to Windows - good luck with that, I do about 75% of my consulting with PCs and 10% with Mac and the rest in other areas, and while I enjoy the profit from the PC side of the consulting scale, the Mac is so much less problematic for the average person than a Windows box is.

Sincerely,

Emmanuel

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by exlemor 

So many laptops even today [eventhough they are slowly getting better], don't allow the user to change
hard drives, access the fans to clean them, change out optical driver and so on and so forth...And by non-user replacable, I don't count those laptops where you can reach the needed component after removing 15 or so screws and popping off plenty of plastic pieces and equiv.

Remarkable. Every Dell laptop I've owned or dealt with takes a single screw to remove the hard drive from the laptop, and only a few more to remove the hard drive from its caddy. The "higher-end" home laptops, as well as all the business laptops (Latitude line, which I always recommend over the Inspiron line) have removable drive modules. Doesn't get any easier than that to replace an optical drive - or add a floppy drive, zip drive, second battery, or even second hard drive.

2. As for the warranty comment being a lot better... obviously you haven't tried getting a hold of Dell or HP and going through the warranty process too many times...

It's all about how you do it. Buy through small business with Dell, and you get tech support based in the United States, as well as next-business day, onsite service for all but the lowest warranty option. Not to mention the fact that Dell, IBM/Lenovo, and HP all provide accidental damage warranties, which Apple still doesn't sell. When you kick your precious MacBook off your coffee table by accident, and the LCD shatters, you tell me which one is better. I've had every component replaced in my Dell laptops, from the logic board to the plastic casing, simply because I was smart and had the right warranty.

For myself, I have only had one little problem so far with my Macbook Pro, strolled in to an Apple Store, spoke to a Genius Bar rep [after 5-10 minutes of waiting time] which is reasonable and the problem was resolved about 5 minutes later... [I did buy a warranty on it I have to say which for a laptop at the price Apple sells both the laptop and the warranty is in my book not a bad choice]...

I'd rather not have to buy an extra warranty to get more than 90 days phone support. When I took my brand-new 60GB iPod photo to the Apple Store because I knew it had a bad hard drive, the Apple "genius" was a complete jackass who basically told me that the iPod was dead because I used it on a Windows machine. The iBook he hooked it up to didn't recognize the drive was bad until it hit that bad sector while transferring music. Windows recognized the bad drive immediately after connecting it to the computer.

As for going back to Windows - good luck with that, I do about 75% of my consulting with PCs and 10% with Mac and the rest in other areas, and while I enjoy the profit from the PC side of the consulting scale, the Mac is so much less problematic for the average person than a Windows box is.

This is an argument not worth holding. You like yours, I like mine. That's all there is to it. Being a responsible computer user comes with owning a computer, regardless of the brand or operating system. Be responsible, and the odds that your computer will ever give you significant problems are slim to none. Be irresponsible, and you'll have a dead machine regularly. Owning a gerbil presents a similar situation.

[brokenjago]

^^ I would have to agree with pretty much everything he said!

[CaptainHaddock]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Be responsible, and the odds that your computer will ever give you significant problems are slim to none. Be irresponsible, and you'll have a dead machine regularly. Owning a gerbil presents a similar situation.

Speaking for myself, I had no end of OS and malware troubles when I used Windows, and I was a fairly tech-savvy "responsible" user. On OS X, I've never had a problem. 2.5 years of bliss now working with my data and apps rather than fighting with the system.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

This is an argument not worth holding. You like yours, I like mine. That's all there is to it.

I respect that. You're free to love Dell/HP/Windows and whatever else. I am however curious as to why in God's name you're wasting your time on a Mac-centric board.

[brokenjago]

I don't think he's a lover of Dell/HP/Windows. I think he's just a level headed Mac user who realizes that these companies do and offer things that are inherently superior to anything Apple offers (warranties that cover accidental damage, for instance.)

[kick52]

Does the grey screen change at all?
Try pushing slightly at the back of the screen where the hinge is, towards the base unit, when its about at 90 degrees.

What does system profiler say about the screen?

Try going into display preferences, and switch resolutions and stuff.

[garythecynic]

iBooks are a pain to take apart, so good luck with that. As for me, I have a dead right speaker for whatever reason, and now the left one clicks when I turn the volume too high. I am not under warranty so looks like I'm on my own.

This is an argument not worth holding. You like yours, I like mine.
-shifuimam

The reality is, I'd estimate 90% of computer users DO NOT know how to properly maintain their machines. This is the group that exlemor refers to in his original argument that shifuimam refuted. This is a group that does not know what "RAM" is or "hard disk defragmentation" or even what kind of files to avoid opening to prevent dangerous viruses (.exe from spam mail, etc.) I can say this much: while Mac does appear to be a dumb platform compared to Windows-based PCs sometimes (like not having an eject button on the Powermac G5 tower), it is overall much more idiot-proof. The OS is very smart about keeping users from tampering too much with the system bits, and all cases of broken Macs I have heard of arise from inevitable hardware failure (all hard disks fail at some point, for example). You have to try hard to render OSX inoperable. And don't even get me started on the Windows registry... if you ever had to reformat your Windows partition to cut back clutter, you know what I mean.

Before you brand me as a rabid Mac "fanboy," hear this: as an engineering major, I use both Mac OSX and Windows XP extensively. I have built my own PCs, overclocked my graphics card, and dug through the ugly, nerdy bits win XP too many times to count. I have also installed a new hard disk and DVD burner on my 12" iBook.

[Northeastern292]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

I don't think he's a lover of Dell/HP/Windows. I think he's just a level headed Mac user who realizes that these companies do and offer things that are inherently superior to anything Apple offers (warranties that cover accidental damage, for instance.)

Not just better warranties, but companies that make notebooks that are extremely affordable (and affordable towers.)

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I'd rather not have to buy an extra warranty to get more than 90 days phone support.

You do realize that if the problem is covered by the first year's warranty that you don't get charged for the phone call if it is after the first 90 days of phone support?

[Big Mac]

I didn't know that, Person Man.

[Russet]

Originally Posted by kick52 

Does the grey screen change at all?
Try pushing slightly at the back of the screen where the hinge is, towards the base unit, when its about at 90 degrees.

What does system profiler say about the screen?

Try going into display preferences, and switch resolutions and stuff.

I did every thing you suggested.
Pushing at the screen in various places, no matter what position, had no impact on the screen.
The system profiler recognizes the screen and all the values look appropriate.
Changing resolutions didn't have any impact on the screen.
I appreciate your suggestions and would be happy to try any others
I am missing the use of my laptop and don't know what I should do next, fix, sell, and buy a new, or what?????????

[pheonixash]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You do realize that if the problem is covered by the first year's warranty that you don't get charged for the phone call if it is after the first 90 days of phone support?

That's not true. The last time I called Apple, they explicitly told me I would be charged even if it was a problem that would be covered. I had to go down to the store...

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Person Man 

You do realize that if the problem is covered by the first year's warranty that you don't get charged for the phone call if it is after the first 90 days of phone support?

Even if that is true, 90 days phone support is utter crap. That's like a car warranty covering only the first 100 miles. I don't want to have to risk getting charged for a support PHONE CALL if it so happens that they decide my problem isn't covered under warranty. It's too subjective.

I've called for tech support on 10 year old Compaq desktops before, or five year old Dells, and I always get support. The machines are explicitly out of warranty, but at least I'm still allowed to get tech support without driving any number of miles to the nearest Apple store - which sometimes isn't very close.

Apple could stand to take a leaf from Dell, IBM, and HP's support structures. Accidental damage warranty. Free phone support for life. Extended warranties that cost less and cover more. It'd make someone like me, who knows what kind of damage can accidentally happen to a laptop during its lifespan, more willing to drop a grand on a laptop.

Don't get me wrong - I don't inherently hate macs, but Apple's support policy is archaic and completely non customer-friendly.

To the OP: I would really, really, really recommend trying a different video cable. If that's your only problem, a $20 fix is a lot better than selling your iBook and buying a new MacBook (or another used iBook).

[olePigeon]

Is your screen gray like it normally looks when you boot, except no Apple or pinwheel? I know this sounds silly, but if it is, check your Display preference pane. Make sure you don't have it set to spanning of the desktop or something.

Sometimes simple things ruin a whole day for me (like a user not having a password, while I fiddle with it for 2 hours trying to figure out what their password could be...)

[zaghahzag]

i don't know what you guys are talking about re: phone support. If you're calling them up asking how to configure mail, then yes it's probably 90 days, but if you have a hardware problem, they talk to you as long as you're on warrantee. I've never had anyone even bring up me being charged for anything when i call apple.

I've also never had anything but the best experiences with apple fixing my laptops. Generally, i tell them what the problem is, they agree and send me a fix or a new one. I have only had a few experiences with PC laptops and they sucked in comparison.

re: guy with broken lappy.. laptops die, maybe yours has had a good life. Macbooks are awesome.

otherwise, i hope you manage to fix it.

[kick52]

does it say it is "online" in the system profiler?

[Russet]

Originally Posted by kick52 

does it say it is "online" in the system profiler?

It does show online. Here is a copy of my display system profiler.
ATI Mobility Radeon 9200:

Chipset Model: ATY,RV280M9+
Type: Display
Bus: AGP
VRAM (Total): 32 MB
Vendor: ATI (0x1002)
Device ID: 0x5c63
Revision ID: 0x0001
ROM Revision: 113-xxxxx-115
Displays:
Color LCD:
Display Type: LCD
Resolution: 1024 x 768
Depth: 32-bit Color
Built-In: Yes
Core Image: Not Supported
Mirror: On
Mirror Status: Hardware Mirror
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported
VGA Display:
Resolution: 1024 x 768 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Not Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: On
Mirror Status: Master Mirror
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Supported

[Russet]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Is your screen gray like it normally looks when you boot, except no Apple or pinwheel? I know this sounds silly, but if it is, check your Display preference pane. Make sure you don't have it set to spanning of the desktop or something.

Sometimes simple things ruin a whole day for me (like a user not having a password, while I fiddle with it for 2 hours trying to figure out what their password could be...)

The screen is gray just like start up but without pinwheel or apple logo. I'm not sure what you mean by "spanning of the desk top". I have tred different screen settings and they did change on my external monitor. 1078x480 or something like that and then I went to 620x250 and back to the original. Thanks for your input.