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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Higher 17" screen resolution, when?

Higher 17" screen resolution, when?
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redboy
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Apr 24, 2003, 09:16 AM
 
Got my 17 incher and I love it. But consideing the size of the screen I do feel that it could use a higher screen res. What do you ppl think, and when do you think Apple will feel ready do incorporate a higher resolution?
     
dettociao
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Apr 24, 2003, 10:22 AM
 
Probably never. Apple has always fallen short on the resolution side of things. Actually, I for one prefer it this way. Text is easier to read, etc. Alot of people will disagree, however, and claim that the 2600x1600 ridiclousness of the Dell is necessary.

Nate
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holygoat
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Apr 24, 2003, 10:43 AM
 
There's nothing to say that larger fonts and icons can't be used with a higher resolution - you just get a sharper image.

I did a comparison with my current laptop (Dell, 1600x1200) and the PowerBooks I'm looking at - the TiBook has 57% of the screen area, the 12" only 41%.
That means I wouldn't even be able to fit my current browser window on the TiBook's display.

I find it hard to believe that the 17" widescreen, on a premium machine, can't even match my current horizontal resolution on a 15" 4:3 display.

That's the only downside for me, planning to switch platforms. 133dpi on the 12" PB would be far more useful, and would seriously increase my ability to work.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Apr 24, 2003, 04:59 PM
 
You could go on and on about screen resolution, pixels per inch (ppi), dots per inch (dpi), how dpi and ppi are NOT the same, and so on.

But here's what I have:

12" PowerBook/iBook - 106
15" PowerBook - 101
17" PowerBook - 100
17" Studio - 96
20" Cinema - 99
23" Cinema - 98

Most of Apple's LCDs are very close to 100 pixels per inch. It's a very good resolution choice. They dropped the 22" Cinema, the 15" Studio, and the 1152x768 PowerBook, which had resolutions closer to 85-90 pixels per inch. The only lower-resolution LCD they have now is the 15" iMac and the 14" iBook.

I think in order to go higher on any of their current models (other than the 15" iMac and 14" iBook of course) they will need to develop resolution independence. That is, widgets, text, and so on, all appear the same size regardless of the screen, and can even be zoomed in and out depending on the user's preference and eyesight. Then, higher resolution screens would only mean sharper images, rather than just everything being smaller.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
Luca Rescigno
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Apr 24, 2003, 05:05 PM
 
Wait, so you want 1280x960 on the 12" iBook? Do you know how hard it would be to read? Sure, you could just use 14-16 point font instead of 12 point... but the system font is the same size regardless of resolution. Resolution independence would be REALLY cool, since that's how it works in the print industry - for example, a 300 dpi printer will print the same size image as a 1200 dpi printer, but the 1200 dpi will be much sharper. If only a higher resolution screen actually meant sharper images rather than just smaller text, it would be so cool. Being able to change the size of everything on screen, alter your zoom level, without any fuzziness or distortion... imagine an iBook with a 2560x1920 display...

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
iDaver
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Apr 24, 2003, 05:28 PM
 
Hopefully Apple will build resolution independence into the OS very soon; hopefully with 10.3. Then, we could start to see super-high-resolution displays without the problems of small fonts, poor eyesight, etc. I agree that some displays could stand to be sharper; which would result in less eye strain.
     
dettociao
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Apr 24, 2003, 07:59 PM
 
Originally posted by iDaver:
Hopefully Apple will build resolution independence into the OS very soon; hopefully with 10.3. Then, we could start to see super-high-resolution displays without the problems of small fonts, poor eyesight, etc. I agree that some displays could stand to be sharper; which would result in less eye strain.
Forgive my ignorance. Please explain what "resolution independence" means-- and how it can be implemented. I'm not really clear on what exactly that entails.

Nate
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Luca Rescigno
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Apr 24, 2003, 08:27 PM
 
The basic concept of a "resolution independent" OS is that no matter what your screen size or resolution, all objects will be the same physical size (like, if you hold a ruler up to the screen) on every monitor. So if you have your resolution set to 1600x1200, it won't get all squinty - it'll just be sharper than a lower resolution like 1024x768 or 1280x1024, because there will be more pixels used for drawing the same screen image. As a by-product of a resolution independent OS, you'll also have the ability to zoom in and out without losing any clarity.

Basically, right now, objects are drawn on the screen with a set number of pixels. On a Mac, if you look at 12 point type, it will take 12 pixels to draw each letter. On a PC, 12 pixels will draw a 16 point letter. But on a resolution independent screen/OS, it will take any number of pixels necessary to draw a letter to match a certain physical size. If the display can handle drawing everything on the screen using any number of pixels available, it'll be able to zoom freely. You know how in order to zoom in your screen, you have to change your screen resolution, and that makes it look all crappy? Well, if it were resoltution-independent, then you'll be able to change the size of everything on the screen (EVERYTHING, not just fonts and icon sizes) to meet your needs, while keeping the screen at the same resolution.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
k2director
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Apr 24, 2003, 08:44 PM
 
I think the 17" should have had a higher res screen. Something more like 1600x1000 or in that neighborhood (whatever conforms to the screen's physical ratio). Right now, gaining 160 horizontal pixels and 46 vertical pixels over the 15.2" Ti is a solid jump, but not as good as it could have been (while still maintaining readability).

When the first Tis came out, they had a res of 1152x768. It took two revisions and almost 1.5 years before that was bumped up to the current 1280x854.

I think we'll eventually see a similar bump on the 17" Alubook, but not the next revision....
     
iDaver
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Apr 25, 2003, 01:00 AM
 
Originally posted by k2director:

When the first Tis came out, they had a res of 1152x768. It took two revisions and almost 1.5 years before that was bumped up to the current 1280x854.

I think we'll eventually see a similar bump on the 17" Alubook, but not the next revision....
Agreed, it'll probably be the third version before you'll see a bump in the resolution, to something like 1000 x 1600; maybe a little higher. I'd guess about next January.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Apr 25, 2003, 02:03 AM
 
I don't think it'll be above 1600x1024 (the resolution of the 22" cinema display).

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
redboy  (op)
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Apr 25, 2003, 05:09 AM
 
So what could be holding Apple back from implementing resolution independent displays?
     
DaedalusDX
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Apr 25, 2003, 05:25 AM
 
I think Apple's reasoning behind all of this is primarily centered around cost... although Dell seems to get away with putting those monstrous displays in cheap laptops...

Although, there is probably another issue that people are missing... Since Apple also writes the operating system and have strictly defined UI guidelines (nevermind the brushed metal... that's always an exception) there is probably a huge concern about the usability of the operating system at these resolutions...

Think about the widgets that are on your screen right now. They're probably a decent size relative to your screen and are easily manipulated... you'd have no problem using the scroll bar in this browser window on basically any display that Apple ships today...

Now suppose they introduced resolutions like Dell uses... these widgets would shrink and shrink and shrink... imagine the close button on your screen getting 25% smaller... same goes for the scroll bars... same goes for the menu bar... and so on...

It is an issue... and i'm thinking the aesthetically conscious Apple won't go to measures like blowing up their widgets like in Windows XP to solve it...
     
PB2K
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Apr 25, 2003, 05:30 AM
 
What Dell has a resolution of 1600x1200 ??
     
DaedalusDX
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Apr 25, 2003, 05:40 AM
 
Originally posted by PB2K:
What Dell has a resolution of 1600x1200 ??
Dell has been using that particular resolution in their 15" Inspiron 8000 series for the past few years.

Overall i'm wasn't too impressed with the quality of that screen, but alas, it is without a doubt a whole boatload of pixels.

Dell no longer offers the 1600 by 1200 resolution. Instead, they now use a 16:10 widescreen display in their Inspiron 8500... SIGH.



At the high end, they offer a 1920 by 1200 display in on a 15.4" laptop... that's a 23" HD cinema display on a laptop...

I don't understand it... I really don't... its just too big of a resolution to be putting on a 15.4" laptop... a 23" HD cinema display... scrunched down to the display on the order of magnitude of the TiBook...
     
videian28
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Apr 25, 2003, 05:41 AM
 
Thats an upgrade option on alot of them, and it does look very good

the 1600x1200 upgrade that is...have not seen their new stuff
( Last edited by videian28; Apr 25, 2003 at 07:08 AM. )
     
RooneyX
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Apr 25, 2003, 08:56 AM
 
1600x1000 would be ideal, really sweet.
     
   
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