[fletch521]

I just received a text from a fried that claimed she heard that apple is taking the iPhone away from AT&T and giving it to Verizon.

Any truth to this?

[Dork.]

A fried what?

Apple can't "take away" the iPhone from AT&T: Apple and AT&T have an exclusive deal to market the iPhone together. It expires sometime in 2010. Besides, I don't think Verizon has the right network for it yet.

Then again, 2010 is next year....

[ajprice]

Theres a thread on AI where somebody says there's no pay and go option on the US Apple Store any more, and you have to do the 2 year contract to buy online. With this, and the lack of MMS and tethering until some unknown time in the future with AT&T, its possible that Apple could ditch AT&T, contract or not. Its not really the case that AT&T are holding up their end of the bargain, so does the contract still apply?

[Dork.]

It all depends on what is in the contract. Even if Apple thinks they can break it, they might be better waiting for the contract to expire anyway, rather than risk litigation.

[ctt1wbw]

Can you use a GSM phone on Verizon's network? If not, then I don't see that happening anytime soon. Frankly, **** Verizon. I hate that company.

[shifuimam]

Nope. Verizon is CDMA - they do sell dual-mode world phones, but that's only so that they can be used in non-CDMA countries (which, IIRC, is everywhere but Japan and the United States at this point). Verizon is all-CDMA in the United States, which means Apple would have to make different hardware to accommodate their network.

That being said, I doubt that Apple doesn't already have CDMA prototypes in the vault. I doubt they'll be stopping AT&T sales (after AT&T's exclusive contract is up); if anything they'll just release it with Verizon in addition to AT&T.

[Brien]

I think if anything T-Mobile would get the iPhone.

[turtle777]

Apple won't go CDMA.

The whole world is GSM, only Sprint and Verizon are CDMA.

-t

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I doubt they'll be stopping AT&T sales (after AT&T's exclusive contract is up); if anything they'll just release it with Verizon in addition to AT&T.

I agree. I don't think Apple will drop AT&T but rather add other carriers once the exclusive contract is up. It would be a really bad decision for Apple to renew another exclusive contract with AT&T.

IMO the whole exclusive phone contract with any carrier is just a bad idea to start with. Because of Apple's exclusive contract they opened the door for copy cat smart phones to have a better market share.

I don't really care about Apple's market share in the cellphone business but I do know enough people who didn't want to switch to AT&T just to get an iPhone even though they wanted one nor were they tech savvy enough to jailbreak it or know about jailbreaking. They ended up getting one of the copy cat iPhone wannbe phones and lost any desire for an iPhone.

[amazing]

There's a curious thing about rumors: If the rumor is about Apple, then the rumor is held to be the literal truth, few questions asked (mostly because it generates lots of controversy and high-readership.)

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by EndlessMac 

They ended up getting one of the copy cat iPhone wannbe phones and lost any desire for an iPhone.

Are you kidding me ?

That's just retarded.

-t

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Are you kidding me ?

Nope, but that's their decision and not mine. I think they were more frustrated about waiting for an iPhone than anything else so they just ended up resenting the iPhone instead and decided they no longer want one.

[amazing]

very thoughtful article on why Apple's locked to ATT

TidBITS iPod & iPhone: Why AT&T Has a Lock on the iPhone

[turtle777]

^^^ very good. That pretty much sums it up.

-t

[Simon]

Unless Verizon has some secret plan to switch over their entire network to GSM at the snap of the finger, the rumor is baseless nonsense and everybody who is silly enough to believe or perpetuate it deserves to be slapped silly with a dead fish. And then some.

[Dork.]

Verizon may have a secret plan to switch their entire network over to LTE/4G at the snap of a finger....

[Simon]

LOL. In two years maybe.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by amazing 

very thoughtful article on why Apple's locked to ATT

TidBITS iPod & iPhone: Why AT&T Has a Lock on the iPhone

While I take issue with the author's opening (reading one's contract and actually asking the company with which one has that contract are in fact THE "ostensibly correct" answer to upgrade cost questions), it's a well written piece that presents solid reasons that Apple will stick with AT&T.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by EndlessMac 

I don't really care about Apple's market share in the cellphone business but I do know enough people who didn't want to switch to AT&T just to get an iPhone even though they wanted one nor were they tech savvy enough to jailbreak it or know about jailbreaking. They ended up getting one of the copy cat iPhone wannbe phones and lost any desire for an iPhone.

I still have issues with -or maybe just can't understand- people who seem to have some deep-seated horror of getting phone service from AT&T. To my knowledge, AT&T has never impregnated anyone's dog or kicked anyone's daughter...or the other way around, either. What is the core of this revulsion for AT&T?

Through something like 16 years of cell phone service (and more like 25 years of landline service) with them, they still haven't insulted my mother... But they have provided solid, reliable service with coverage in places Sprint, Verizon and T-Mobile have never even considered covering, places that a LOT of people want coverage. Go figure.

[frdmfghtr]

I think it has to do with AT&T's participation in the government's warrantless wiretapping program, lots of anecdotal stories about crappy customer service/network coverage, and the recent failure to be ready for the iPhone 3GS launch in regards to tethering and MMS. I'd bet a donut that you could find just as many users with issues on the other networks (Verizon's crippling of various handset features in favor of their own paid service for example), but you hear about them more here on AT&T thanks to the spotlight that comes from the iPhone

[EndlessMac]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I still have issues with -or maybe just can't understand- people who seem to have some deep-seated horror of getting phone service from AT&T. To my knowledge, AT&T has never impregnated anyone's dog or kicked anyone's daughter...or the other way around, either. What is the core of this revulsion for AT&T?

I don't know the answer to that because I do have AT&T myself. People do tend to be loyal to whatever company they don't have issues with so it might be that they don't want to switch from a carrier that hasn't given them any problems. Just a theory.

[shifuimam]

I was on Verizon for five years before I switched to AT&T (for the sole purpose of getting an iPhone, sadly enough - plus my current employer gets me a 20% discount on voice and data). Although I wasn't a fan of the crippled handsets (I found workarounds to that), Verizon wasn't that bad. AT&T hasn't been that bad - customer service has been surprisingly good, actually.

I think it's one of those "I've heard AT&T sucks, so I'm going to say AT&T sucks" kind of things...

[turtle777]

The funny thing is, people always like to blame the big players of all kinds of things, whereas the underdogs (like T-Mobile) are said to be all virtuous and what not.

It's funny that in Germany, where T-Mobile is the top dog, you hear people complain about them just as people do here with AT&T. And those anecdotal stories about how people had bad service or experiences really have very little to do with how the providers fare overall.

-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr 

I think it has to do with AT&T's participation in the government's warrantless wiretapping program, lots of anecdotal stories about crappy customer service/network coverage, and the recent failure to be ready for the iPhone 3GS launch in regards to tethering and MMS. I'd bet a donut that you could find just as many users with issues on the other networks (Verizon's crippling of various handset features in favor of their own paid service for example), but you hear about them more here on AT&T thanks to the spotlight that comes from the iPhone

I don't think it has as much to do with caving in to Georges' goons as you do. People were whining about AT&T in 2000-for other reasons, of course, and under a different name, but they complained about them. As for the other reasons, I don't know where people have bad coverage, but it's not in Texas. And as for customer service, as I've said, I haven't had anything beyond mildly annoying in that department. You may be right about the other network's users-particularly about Verizon saying their customers can't use the features of their phones, but there always seem to be more and louder complaints about AT&T...

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by EndlessMac 

I don't know the answer to that because I do have AT&T myself. People do tend to be loyal to whatever company they don't have issues with so it might be that they don't want to switch from a carrier that hasn't given them any problems. Just a theory.

I think it's something akin to "loyalty," but not quite exactly that. More like "I have to justify my choice so I'll be a fanboy" than actual loyalty. A loyal customer may nod and say "very nice extras you get with your carrier," but he won't say "well your carrier sucks so even if you get those extras they still suck." (I actually heard something similar to this at Best Buy this morning...and they were actually arguing about the difference between Sprint and Verizon...)

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

It's funny that in Germany, where T-Mobile is the top dog, you hear people complain about them just as people do here with AT&T. And those anecdotal stories about how people had bad service or experiences really have very little to do with how the providers fare overall.

By and large, those stories about T-Mobile Germany are true, though.

No, seriously: T-Mobile is a direct descendent of the former state-owned telecom monopolist, and it really shows in their structure and their response strategy.

Their technology is first-tier (they were the only ones to have *full* EDGE coverage at the time the iPhone was first rolled out, and their UMTS network is fairly advanced).

But there was a whole slew of nasty press stories last year about complete service SNAFUs, with huge piles of customer complaints simply ending up in a large bin for lack of service personnel, resulting in an even greater service disaster.

The CEO actually held a press conference at one point declaring a "service offensive" to reduce customer dissatisfaction - the announcement of which was immediately followed by disbanding most of their service department.

Seriously.


Fact is: ALL telecommunications companies, once they hit a certain size, are in a very fundamental way of and in league with the devil. It's industry-inherent.

They're all ****.


(But T-Com and its sister companies T-Mobile and T-whatever have a very, very special place in hell.)

[amazing]

ATT loathing comes from years of no-good, very bad, terrible customer service. I used to have to deal with them a lot at a former job, and the byzantine hierarchical button selections were mind-boggling--but the worst was getting disconnected after being on hold for 30 minutes or longer. Forcing you to start all over again. Imagine the swearing!

That said, I'm with ATT now and they've gotten much better.

[musiclovesryan]

I feel like they would lose alot of customers if they did that.

[Spheric Harlot]

POLKA dots:

[AKcrab]

I thought you had gone crazy for a minute Spheric..

[turtle777]

Poke dots



-t

[Spheric Harlot]

I would have posted pokie dots as well, but I figured better to keep it SFW.

[driven]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Nope. Verizon is CDMA - they do sell dual-mode world phones, but that's only so that they can be used in non-CDMA countries (which, IIRC, is everywhere but Japan and the United States at this point). Verizon is all-CDMA in the United States, which means Apple would have to make different hardware to accommodate their network.

That being said, I doubt that Apple doesn't already have CDMA prototypes in the vault. I doubt they'll be stopping AT&T sales (after AT&T's exclusive contract is up); if anything they'll just release it with Verizon in addition to AT&T.

Actually Japan is WCDMA (still a variant of GSM, *NOT* the Verizon/Sprint proprietary mess)

[driven]

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr 

I think it has to do with AT&T's participation in the government's warrantless wiretapping program, lots of anecdotal stories about crappy customer service/network coverage, and the recent failure to be ready for the iPhone 3GS launch in regards to tethering and MMS. I'd bet a donut that you could find just as many users with issues on the other networks (Verizon's crippling of various handset features in favor of their own paid service for example), but you hear about them more here on AT&T thanks to the spotlight that comes from the iPhone

You are correct. Kudos to you.

Verizon actually did insult my late mother. (That's a story for another day, but it is the reason I'm no longer using their service.) A Sprint store employee insulted my wife. I like at&t's cell service, but they would have to pay me to use their Bellsouth landline or DSL offerings.

The ONLY phone company I've had only good things to say about is T-Mobile. Amazing customer service with (mostly) yesterday's technology. I'd go back to them in a minute if they had an iPhone. (and a standard 3G deployment).

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by driven 

The ONLY phone company I've had only good things to say about is T-Mobile. Amazing customer service with (mostly) yesterday's technology. I'd go back to them in a minute if they had an iPhone. (and a standard 3G deployment).

It's funny how T-Mobile's single biggest problem in the country they're actually based in is their absolutely abysmal customer service...

[driven]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

It's funny how T-Mobile's single biggest problem in the country they're actually based in is their absolutely abysmal customer service...

I've never had to call their German customer service office, so I can't comment.

[Simon]

Spheric, you're right but it's no real surprise, is it?

In Germany they were the formerly state-owned monopoly and they still are the 500 lb gorilla there. In the US they're the underdog. If anything I'd say this is a nice example of competition actually doing what it's supposed to do.

[Spheric Harlot]

True, of course.

T-Mobile in Germany is what AT&T is in the U.S. (including exclusive distribution of the iPhone).

Still, it's just weird to hear people raving about how wonderful they are.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Still, it's just weird to hear people raving about how wonderful they are.

I know what you mean. To Germans (or people who have lived in Germany) everything with a T- in front of its name seems to sound dirty.

[turtle777]

You mean, like T-bag ?

-t

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Apple won't go CDMA.

The whole world is GSM, only Sprint and Verizon are CDMA.

-t

I'm thinking you are insane? Do you have any idea at the CDMA networks in China? China Unicome has 3G in 30 major cities. Just because the EU says we all need to be GSM, and the US did not have the balls to stand up to the perfect union ( where is that constitution anyway) means nothing.

Apple has been acquiring EVDO-CDMA engineers since mid 08. Yes, there is some overlap with GSM engineering, but you need EVDO-CDMA people to build a phone to a CDMA standard that will function in the US and China.

Why do you think it is so long getting the China deal done? It the STANDARD to be used. China is paranoid about anything western.

It will be worked out by the end of the year, and we will have CDMA iPhones on Verizon late 2010. Personally I can't wait. I love my apps almost as much as my family. However at&t is simply dying with infrastructure.

Due to the depression they cannot raise the
credit to add 3g as quickly as they need to. Verizon's CEO was brilliant to turn down Apple at first. He knew at&t would pull the cart until Verizon could get the horses.

Late 2010 Verizon iPhone 4g.

[Spheric Harlot]

Rumour had a 5-year exclusive agreement with AT&T.

See you in 2012.

Also, it makes absolutely no sense to introduce multiple models to the U.S. market. There simply isn't enough area without GSM coverage to necessitate the alternative, and 25 years of history have shown that Apple works best when they don't confuse the market with multiple redundant products.

And making the iPhone 5-band (quad plus CDMA) makes no sense either, since you'd be selling the rest of the world space- and budget-consuming circuitry they have absolutely zero use for.

They *will* build a custom CDMA version for the Chinese mainland, but that will come without Wi-Fi, as well, to comply with Chinese regulations. That's a very different situation, with very different rules, and a HUGE market.

[driven]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

I'm thinking you are insane? Do you have any idea at the CDMA networks in China? China Unicome has 3G in 30 major cities. Just because the EU says we all need to be GSM, and the US did not have the balls to stand up to the perfect union ( where is that constitution anyway) means nothing.

Apple has been acquiring EVDO-CDMA engineers since mid 08. Yes, there is some overlap with GSM engineering, but you need EVDO-CDMA people to build a phone to a CDMA standard that will function in the US and China.

Why do you think it is so long getting the China deal done? It the STANDARD to be used. China is paranoid about anything western.

Then why go with CDMA? That's a lot more "western" than GSM ... *everything* you do in CDMA (handsets, software, etc) results in a payment to Qualcomm.

Now, if you are talking about TDSCDMA, that's a whole different, and incompatible (and AFAIK China-only) animal. Even then, Qualcomm claims that TDSCDMA infringes on many of their patents. (Ripping them off essentially). (Although I'm sure China would NEVER steal another company's intellectual property.)

That said: China Unicom (the most likely vendor for the iPhone) has 80% of their subscribers on GSM. So I sincerely doubt that the iPhone will ship in China with *any* variant of CDMA.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Rumour had a 5-year exclusive agreement with AT&T.

See you in 2012.

Also, it makes absolutely no sense to introduce multiple models to the U.S. market. There simply isn't enough area without GSM coverage to necessitate the alternative, and 25 years of history have shown that Apple works best when they don't confuse the market with multiple redundant products.

And making the iPhone 5-band (quad plus CDMA) makes no sense either, since you'd be selling the rest of the world space- and budget-consuming circuitry they have absolutely zero use for.

They *will* build a custom CDMA version for the Chinese mainland, but that will come without Wi-Fi, as well, to comply with Chinese regulations. That's a very different situation, with very different rules, and a HUGE market.

Multiple models? Ok, as in 2. I can see the production crisis. Every other Manufacturer does. So will Apple. Were still a year and a half away. 2012? Your rumor omits several clauses giving Apple an out if the carrier can't meet deadlines for services. Apple Legal always has many back doors.

It's coming. You can be ready, or be a classic Apple Whiner when news starts leaking. You have roughly 15 months to decide.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by driven 

Then why go with CDMA? That's a lot more "western" than GSM ... *everything* you do in CDMA (handsets, software, etc) results in a payment to Qualcomm.

Now, if you are talking about TDSCDMA, that's a whole different, and incompatible (and AFAIK China-only) animal. Even then, Qualcomm claims that TDSCDMA infringes on many of their patents. (Ripping them off essentially). (Although I'm sure China would NEVER steal another company's intellectual property.)

That said: China Unicom (the most likely vendor for the iPhone) has 80% of their subscribers on GSM. So I sincerely doubt that the iPhone will ship in China with *any* variant of CDMA.

Apple may be trying to go with China Mobil? They are much more Western in implantation than Unicom. Could also be a very good reason for all the delays on the China deal.

I also think Steve will need to be well enough to go to China to close the deal. Their culture dictates that for the near future anyway.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

be a classic Apple Whiner when news starts leaking. You have roughly 15 months to decide.

What's a "classic Apple Whiner"?

I always thought those were the ones who bitch about Apple's offerings and tactics being deficient?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

Multiple models? Ok, as in 2. I can see the production crisis. Every other Manufacturer does. So will Apple.

Wow, what a complete bogus argument.

Every other manufacturer sucks at building phones, and sucks even more at good software.
Apple has been doing the complete OPPOSITE of what the major players have been doing.

So why exactly would Apple go back to an old and failed strategy ?

-t

[Eyenigma]

Originally Posted by fletch521 

Any truth to this?

Not a chance in hell. iPhone won't go to Verizon ANY time soon. *If ever.

[Simon]

A CMDA iPhone on Verizon is the wet dream of AT&T haters, Verizon fanbois, etc. Truth is, it just aint happening. End of story.

The first non-3G iPhone the US will see will be the one based on LTE/4G. And again that will be the same model Apple sells to Europe and the rest of the world. LTE is scheduled to arrive about one-two years from now (depending on the operator). It supports seamless connections to previous networks based on GSM, cdmaOne, W-CDMA (UMTS), and CDMA2000. IOW pretty much every carrier planning on staying in business is interested in it right now. Especially since UMB has been finally pronounced dead. There is absolutely no doubt LTE is where cellular communication is headed (at least for data, voice will continue to run over existing networks for quite another while).

Verizon will be adopting LTE too so I'd say that's the straw the fanbois can grasp for now.

What happens in China (their own cellular protocol, no wifi) or Morocco (iPhone w/o GPS) or any other banana republic has zero relevance for the mainstream iPhone sold in North America, Europe and pretty much every other civilized country on this planet.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Simon 

A CMDA iPhone on Verizon is the wet dream of AT&T haters, Verizon fanbois, etc. Truth is, it just aint happening. End of story.

The first non-3G iPhone the US will see will be the one based on LTE/4G. And again that will be the same model Apple sells to Europe and the rest of the world. LTE is scheduled to arrive about one-two years from now (depending on the operator). It supports seamless connections to previous networks based on GSM, cdmaOne, W-CDMA (UMTS), and CDMA2000. IOW pretty much every carrier planning on staying in business is interested in it right now. Especially since UMB has been finally pronounced dead. There is absolutely no doubt LTE is where cellular communication is headed (at least for data, voice will continue to run over existing networks for quite another while).

Verizon will be adopting LTE too so I'd say that's the straw the fanbois can grasp for now.

What happens in China (their own cellular protocol, no wifi) or Morocco (iPhone w/o GPS) or any other banana republic has zero relevance for the mainstream iPhone sold in North America, Europe and pretty much every other civilized country on this planet.

Well, we will just have to wait and see. As for at&t I certainly have no wet dreams of Verizon. Simply reading at&t customer satisfaction numbers are enough. Also, you will be past 2012 before you see any LTE/4G on at&t. You'll be lucky if you have MMS by Christmas. $10 for 200 MMS per month.