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Zoom Zoom (apologies to Mazda)
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Doc HM
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Apr 24, 2020, 05:02 AM
 
I am confused as to how Zoom came to take over the world.
Pre lockdown...
Mac users: "We have FaceTime built into every one of our devices. Its super intuitive, works great and its already there.
PC Users: "but, everyone else in the entire world uses Skype. It's free, easy to use and everyone has it."
Percentage of PC market already covered by and installed on peoples machines...FOR FREE - 100%
Entire world after lockdown: "Have you discovered Zoom? All you have to do is find it, download the app, install it, create an account, wait for everyone else to do the same, work out how to use a whole new interface then have all your data hacked and your camera taken over!! It's awesome!"
Microsoft: "bu... Skype... you already have it.. we don't spy on you.. remember Skype..."
Apple: "FaceTime.. remember when that was cool?"
??
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
subego
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Apr 24, 2020, 07:01 AM
 
Not a user, but I gather it’s “killer feature” is free conference calls with a metric ****ton of participants.
     
Thorzdad
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Apr 24, 2020, 08:06 AM
 
Facetime's Achilles heel is always gonna be that it's iOS/Mac-only. If you have one Android user in the group, you have to use something else. My wife's office is all iOS, and they've been doing their weekly staff meeting via Facetime since the lockdown started. Seems to do really well, even with five or six people in the meeting.

I haven't used Skype in I don't know how long. A couple of years, at least. It was always...okay. I seem to recall MS making some kind of typical MS dick-changes to the mobile app and made a ton of users mad. I can't recall what it was, though. Reduced features? Reduced parity between PC/Mac/desktop/mobile versions? Beats me. I just know Skype is rarely mentioned anymore.

Lately, I've been seeing ads on tv for MS Teams. More businesses using Zoom, and MS is seeing lower-than-expected usage of Teams during the lockdown?

I wonder how things are going over at WebX right now? Anyone remember them? Before the lockdown, my wife was doing a monthly girls-night-out with a bunch of friends. They've been continuing the meet-ups via WebX. I have admit, it's the first time I heard anyone mention WebX throughout this. I mentioned it so a friend, and they had never heard of WebX.
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subego
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Apr 24, 2020, 09:40 AM
 
I’ve never heard of it. Sounds like a graphics format or something.
     
turtle777
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Apr 24, 2020, 09:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Lately, I've been seeing ads on tv for MS Teams. More businesses using Zoom, and MS is seeing lower-than-expected usage of Teams during the lockdown?
My company uses MS Teams, and extensively. We have banned Zoom. We are not even allowed to join outside Zoom meetings due to the security concerns.

The reason why Zoom exploded is for multiple reasons:

1) multi-platform
2) free when used lightly
3) Allows screen sharing ( Apple, when do we get screen sharing on FaceTime )
4) Easy to use. Again, Apple is [email protected]$%ing things up by making some feature s(like group calls) very undiscoverable.

Also, very important for corporate users: you can't easily schedule FaceTime calls via email. It's a disjointed experience.
MS Teams is great. Set up a meeting, click a button to make it a Teams meeting, and then when you get the meeting reminder, press a button to connect and be in. No dialing, no entering of codes, nothing. You're just in.

I'm liking MS Teams more and more.

-t
     
Thorzdad
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Apr 24, 2020, 10:11 AM
 
I think Facetime is the way it is because of Apple's typical focus on non-business, personal, one-to-one use. It's more of an outgrowth of iMessage/Messages than a bespoke video meeting app, the way Teams and Zoom were conceived. Making group Facetimes more discoverable would definitely be a help, though.
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andi*pandi
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Apr 24, 2020, 10:24 AM
 
We used to use Adobe breeze, and various vendors used gotomeeting, join.me, etc. We tried moving to skype for business a year or two ago, but the consensus was that microsoft had f****ed it up: screenshare didn't work, video quality sucked, mac client was flaky. So we went back to the adobe thing until we got zoom, and that took off. Adding a zoom button in outlook, being able to connect with a link not a %^&*( pin code, made it much easier, as did the compatible apps. Most vendors have also converted.
     
turtle777
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Apr 24, 2020, 11:39 AM
 
I don’t understand why Skype for Business is so bad, but MS Teams works great.
I would have thought the underlying IP conferencing stack to be the same.

-t
     
Thorzdad
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Apr 24, 2020, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I don’t understand why Skype for Business is so bad, but MS Teams works great.
I would have thought the underlying IP conferencing stack to be the same.

-t
Probably a victim of the Not Invented Here syndrome.
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Laminar
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Apr 24, 2020, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Entire world after lockdown: "Have you discovered Zoom? All you have to do is find it, download the app, install it, create an account, wait for everyone else to do the same, work out how to use a whole new interface then have all your data hacked and your camera taken over!! It's awesome!"
That's inaccurate. What happens is that somebody sends you an invite to a Zoom meeting. You click the link and it downloads and installs on its own, and you're able to instantly join a video conference. No login, no accounts, no finding anything. The interface isn't the point and isn't even needed. Once you're in the call, you're in. If you want to go so far as to mute yourself, there's a big button for that. Extra stuff like changing your name or background or whatever else isn't necessary for casual users.

If you want to make your own meeting, you need an account, but you don't need one to join. Can you join a Facetime call without an AppleID or a Skype call without a Skype account?

I've been to Zoom birthday parties with 50+ people and it actually works. We tried a Facetime call with 5 of us and not only was it a pain to invite and join, but the stupid floaty screens thing was both a massive waste of screen real estate and felt like it was trying to make me seasick. Similarly, we tried to Facetime with another family computer-to-computer and kept running into the scenario where only one of us could see the other. We spent several minutes starting and stopping, you call me, I call you, quit and restart, etc. Then in about 2 minutes I made a Zoom account and sent them an invite, they joined, and we were good to go.
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Apr 24, 2020, 02:04 PM
 
We use MS Teams extensively at college as it offer both the connections AND the file storage with assignment tracking features. E video conferencing is pretty solid.
All our staff groups have teams.
The students hate it. We are teaching them using Discord.
TBF it’s pretty good. You can sling up a server in no time and it’s great at pulling students from groups into one-to-oneswhen needed.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
OAW
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Apr 24, 2020, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
My company uses MS Teams, and extensively. We have banned Zoom. We are not even allowed to join outside Zoom meetings due to the security concerns.

The reason why Zoom exploded is for multiple reasons:

1) multi-platform
2) free when used lightly
3) Allows screen sharing ( Apple, when do we get screen sharing on FaceTime )
4) Easy to use. Again, Apple is [email protected]$%ing things up by making some feature s(like group calls) very undiscoverable.

Also, very important for corporate users: you can't easily schedule FaceTime calls via email. It's a disjointed experience.
MS Teams is great. Set up a meeting, click a button to make it a Teams meeting, and then when you get the meeting reminder, press a button to connect and be in. No dialing, no entering of codes, nothing. You're just in.

I'm liking MS Teams more and more.

-t
This right here. My company uses Cisco WebEx and MS Teams. But we are migrating to Teams and will eventually discontinue using WebEx. We just find it much easier to use with much better audio-visual quality.

OAW
     
Brien
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Apr 24, 2020, 03:00 PM
 
Apple could develop FaceTime into a legit video conferencing app, but they won’t.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Apr 24, 2020, 05:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I am confused as to how Zoom came to take over the world.
Pre lockdown...
Mac users: "We have FaceTime built into every one of our devices. Its super intuitive, works great and its already there.
PC Users: "but, everyone else in the entire world uses Skype. It's free, easy to use and everyone has it."
Percentage of PC market already covered by and installed on peoples machines...FOR FREE - 100%
Entire world after lockdown: "Have you discovered Zoom? All you have to do is find it, download the app, install it, create an account, wait for everyone else to do the same, work out how to use a whole new interface then have all your data hacked and your camera taken over!! It's awesome!"
Microsoft: "bu... Skype... you already have it.. we don't spy on you.. remember Skype..."
Apple: "FaceTime.. remember when that was cool?"
??
Same thing happened with Skype ten years ago. Mac owners already had iChat but they didn't know until the media started going mad for Skype.

Same with mobile emails and Blackberry. That was driven by CEOs on golf courses but mobile email was old before BB existed.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
mindwaves
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Apr 24, 2020, 06:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I am confused as to how Zoom came to take over the world.
Pre lockdown...
Mac users: "We have FaceTime built into every one of our devices. Its super intuitive, works great and its already there.
PC Users: "but, everyone else in the entire world uses Skype. It's free, easy to use and everyone has it."
Percentage of PC market already covered by and installed on peoples machines...FOR FREE - 100%
Entire world after lockdown: "Have you discovered Zoom? All you have to do is find it, download the app, install it, create an account, wait for everyone else to do the same, work out how to use a whole new interface then have all your data hacked and your camera taken over!! It's awesome!"
Microsoft: "bu... Skype... you already have it.. we don't spy on you.. remember Skype..."
Apple: "FaceTime.. remember when that was cool?"
??
Totally agree. I never even heard of Zoom until 1.5 months ago and find it is a publicly traded company.
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Doc HM  (op)
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Apr 25, 2020, 04:19 AM
 
I am surprised at the difference between Skype and Teams. Teams video is so much better but MS must have bought Skype partially to leverage the tech into teams.
As to FaceTime well Apple has a rich and varied history of having something potentially great built into its product and leaving it to flounder.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
andi*pandi
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Apr 25, 2020, 11:52 AM
 
Having a proprietary app might make marketers think it will draw more people to the platform?

For fun video chatting, I am using Marco Polo to stay in touch with friends. More private than facebook video, and you don't have to be online at the same time. Better than texting.
     
OreoCookie
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Apr 25, 2020, 11:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
I am confused as to how Zoom came to take over the world.
Pre lockdown...
Mac users: "We have FaceTime built into every one of our devices. Its super intuitive, works great and its already there.
PC Users: "but, everyone else in the entire world uses Skype. It's free, easy to use and everyone has it."
I'm working in academia, and I have seen the explosive growth of Zoom in my niche in the last few weeks. A few thoughts: Skype is sh*t. It's probably Microsoft's worst-managed asset. It's such a pile of manure. Every now and then the interface is completely revamped — just never for the better. I still cannot edit my user name that I have chosen (in bad taste) over 15 years ago. And you never ever have new features. And don't get me started on audio inputs. I typically have to re-launch the app if I put in my AirPods after launching Skype. Or, to be honest, I just default to using Skype on one of my iOS devices.

In my (limited) experience Zoom brings three things to the table: (1) It is built for large audiences. So you can moderate and mute. Perhaps you can do that with Skype for business or whatever it is called, but this works out of the box. People can virtually raise their hand if they have questions, etc. (2) You have a virtual blackboard/whiteboard. This is huge in my field. Skype, where art thou? And (3) you don't need to add people to your buddy list so that they can listen in on a “call”.

FaceTime was not developed for this either, and it isn't cross platform, which is a deal beaker.

Most other apps like Signal, WhatsApp and the like are not built for use case either.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
   
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