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"_____" while black (Page 7)
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Thorzdad
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May 7, 2020, 06:15 PM
 
We kind of do. It’s called Attorney General, and they can bring down some heavy pressure on local and state law enforcement if need be. Unfortunately, the current holder of the office is too busy covering Trump’s ass and wiping his butt with the Constitution to care about a murdered black guy.
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OAW
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May 7, 2020, 09:00 PM
 
The public outcry caused by the video has finally led to an arrest. It's being announced by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) so it would appear the local cops still wouldn't do it so the state cops had to step in. Imagine that.

Two men involved in fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery face murder charges, GBI says | CNN

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OreoCookie
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May 7, 2020, 09:42 PM
 
At least the pressure is working. I cannot imagine what has slipped by for decades when there was no video. This really has to stop.
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andi*pandi
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May 8, 2020, 11:37 AM
 
Wasn't sure where this went, but it seems like in this case, legislating while black and having excellent supporters is a win?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...htwing-protest
     
OAW
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May 14, 2020, 01:43 PM
 
Delivering furniture while black .....

A black delivery driver was trapped for more than in an hour in a gated community in Oklahoma City earlier this week by a white man claiming to be president of the local homeowner’s association.

The encounter, live-streamed by furniture and home appliance delivery driver Travis Miller on Monday, went viral as fears around the country have spiked over the lengths white people will go to defend spaces they see as theirs.

Miller had completed a delivery in the Ashford Hills neighborhood in Northeast Oklahoma City and was attempting to leave the gated community when a white man blocked him in with his car.

The man, who later identified himself as David Stewart, president of the local HOA, demanded to know where Miller was going.

“It’s none of your business. I’m going out, that’s where I’m going,” Miller responded.

After Stewart identified himself, a frustrated Miller replied, “I don’t care what your name is, move out the way.”

Miller waited in his vehicle for another 30 minutes when another man approached him: “All we want to know is why you’re in here and who gave you the gate code. That’s all we need to know,” the homeowner said.

Miller refused to divulge the information, not wanting to share his customer’s personal information, he told KFOR-TV.

He was held up for another hour before the customer finally emerged and talked to Stewart.

“They just spoke for a minute, and [Stewart] moved out the way,” Miller said on the livestream.


Moments later, an emotional Miller called the customer, who he said apologized profusely for the incident.

“Normally I could have handled it a little differently, a little better, but emotionally I have a lot of things going on,” Miller told the customer. He added that he didn’t want to move his car right away out of concern that police would think he was fleeing the scene.

Miller then called the police himself, just to make sure he was in the clear. On his Facebook Live, Miller can be seen wiping tears from his eyes before he gets back on the phone.

“I have my video, but ain’t no telling what they will or won’t watch,” Miller told a passenger in the vehicle.

To Miller, it’s clear Stewart’s actions were racially motivated. In his Facebook post, Miller referred to Stewart as a “white supremacist racist” and “the newest overt self-proclaimed defender of white flight spaces.”

Tensions are running high across the country as recent news events have highlighted clear racial divides. Foremost in many people’s minds is the killing of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia at the hands of two white men, Travis and Gregory McMichael, who ambushed the young man as he was running through their Satilla Shores neighborhood. They claimed they suspected Arbery was a burglar.

But protests over coronavirus closures have touched on similar themes of white entitlement. Across the country, majority-white protests have called on state governments to lift shelter-in-place measures meant to mitigate the spread of the deadly virus, which has been devastating black communities, indigenous populations, and communities of color throughout the country.

“I just know that emotionally, it was hard to maintain restraint, especially when I’m dealing with death in the family, two family members within two days of each other,” Miller told KFOR. “I just did the best I could to make sure I didn’t make a bad situation worse.”
Black Delivery Driver Held Against His Will in Gated Oklahoma City Community by White Homeowners | TheRoot.com

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May 19, 2020, 01:57 PM
 
More shenanigans here in suburban St. Louis. Returning a TV while black ....

A 68-year-old black woman in Missouri is suing four white police officers claiming that she and her son were injured when officers threw them to the floor of a big-box store on the false accusation that they had stolen a television.

Marvia Gray, 68, said the incident began when she and her son, Derek, went to a Sam’s Club in the St. Louis suburb of Des Peres on March 23 to buy a television, according to the complaint filed in St. Louis County Circuit Court on Monday against the city of Des Peres and four of its police officers.

The TV they bought did not fit into their SUV, so the Grays told the store they would come back to pick it up, the complaint says. When Derek returned to the store with his receipt, the TV was “withheld from him on suspicion that he was attempting to steal it,” the complaint alleges. Eventually, the television was released to him after a "store employee interceded with management and confirmed that Derek had in fact made the purchase."

When Derek went to load the television into his car, an officer followed him.

The complaint alleges that a store employee informed the officer that Derek had purchased the television, but the officer nonetheless made an “emergency phone call” saying he “witnessed Gray steal a TV and place it in the parked vehicle.” When Derek returned home with the TV and told his mother he was accused of stealing, the two decided to return the TV and went back to the store.

While at the store attempting to get a refund, the lawsuit alleges that four Des Peres police officers "without cause or adequate provocation and in the presence of countless witnesses, violently and physically seized Marvia Gray and Derek Gray, throwing them to the floor, beating them, handcuffing them, then arresting them."

The incident was captured on a store surveillance camera.

Marvia and Derek Gray were both arrested, and their TV and other purchases they had made at the store were seized and their car towed, the lawsuit says. Their purchases were returned to them by police the following day.

The mother and son both suffered multiple injuries and extreme emotional distress from the incident, the complaint says.

Andrew M. Stroth, of Action Injury Law Group, a national civil rights law firm representing Marvia Gray, said his client “thought her son was about to be another black man unjustifiably shot and killed by the police,” according to The Associated Press. “You can see in the video that she is terrified with respect to what they’re doing to her son,” Stroth said.

In a press release, the Des Peres Public Safety Department said its officers “were dispatched to the Sam’s Club for a reported Larceny” and upon arrival learned “it was the previous subjects from the earlier incident,” referring to when the officer followed Derek Gray to his car.

The statement said Derek Gray “did not comply and began to struggle with officers” and that Marvia Gray was arrested after she “began to grab and pull at the officers” during the interaction. Derek Gray was charged with aggravated assault of a police officer and “stealing in the near future” and Marvia Gray was charged with interfering and resisting arrest.

The city said it is investigating the incident, and Des Peres Police Capt. Sean Quinn told NBC News in an email, "There is a lawsuit that has been filed and because of this I cannot comment any further."

Sam’s Club could not be immediately reached for comment by NBC News on Tuesday.

The St. Louis County chapter of the NAACP told KSDK that it is standing with the Grays to seek accountability for the officers.

"Unfortunately, I get these complaints way too often," the chapter's president, John Bowman, said. "It appears in more and more police interaction between people of color and white police officers, there seems to be this feeling that they treat black people as a weapon because of their color.”
Missouri police sued for beating 68 year old black woman, her son at a Sam's Club | NBCNews.com

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Laminar
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May 19, 2020, 02:27 PM
 
“stealing in the near future”
     
reader50
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May 19, 2020, 10:35 PM
 
So you're at risk if you take a TV out of the store. And you're at risk if you bring a TV back into the store. Obviously the problem is local brick-and-mortar stores. Screw local employment, order our TVs over the internet.

Seriously, local stores are struggling. They should be emphasizing customer service experience vs online savings. Not this kind of experience.

I'd consider avoiding local Sams Clubs, except there doesn't seem to be any nearby. Does that make them easier or harder to avoid?
     
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May 26, 2020, 03:09 PM
 
This is murder. Plain and simple.



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Thorzdad
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May 26, 2020, 05:03 PM
 
I heard about this just this afternoon. Insanity. This cowboy BS will continue to happen until the boys in blue start being tried, convicted, and placed in the general population of the state prison.
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OAW
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May 26, 2020, 07:03 PM
 
What you can't see from the video angle is that there were two other "officers" involved. All four have been fired at least. Though I fear Minneapolis might explode tonight.



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OreoCookie
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May 26, 2020, 07:54 PM
 
I made the mistake clicking on the video when I browsed my Twitter timeline this morning before breakfast. I’ve lived on both coasts in the US, and I still don’t get how the cops usually get off scott free.
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reader50
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May 27, 2020, 12:12 AM
 
Based on incidents like this continuing to happen, the most reasonable guess is they were happening all along. And police body cams haven't helped much, due to turn-offs and departments that only release police-favorable recordings.

I'm really appreciating public-recorded smartphone videos. Along with YouTube and consistent court decisions that it's OK to record the police. Those three items have combined to rewrite the rules.
     
OreoCookie
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May 27, 2020, 03:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Based on incidents like this continuing to happen, the most reasonable guess is they were happening all along. And police body cams haven't helped much, due to turn-offs and departments that only release police-favorable recordings.
I remember Dan Carlin on his (now essentially defunct) politics podcast talking about his days at the news desk of an LA newspaper. He said he’d get calls by relatives of victims of police violence, mostly people of color, and he’d have to deny their request for the newspaper to pick up the story because it cannot be verified. It’d just be he said-she said at the end, where the victim would say one thing and the police officers another.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'm really appreciating public-recorded smartphone videos. Along with YouTube and consistent court decisions that it's OK to record the police. Those three items have combined to rewrite the rules.
Oh yes, and it shows how essential they are to create pressure to change the culture in the police force. The whole system is sick, starting from police training that places an overabundant emphasis on the use of force and the incentive structure, which makes it hard for “good cops” to rise through the ranks and set the tone.

I’ve heard that the police officers have been fired, which is progress with a very small p. A few years ago, they at best would have been reprimanded and put to desk duty. Ideally, they’d be in handcuffs now. Perhaps we’ll get there. But how many more will have to needlessly die.
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andi*pandi
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May 27, 2020, 11:13 AM
 
I can't even watch the video, the screenshot is painful to see.
     
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May 27, 2020, 12:12 PM
 
And then there’s this: Central Park Dog Walker Threatens Bird Watcher.

Now maybe part of the positive here is that the white (not a great person) dog walker is that her prior bad behavior came out because of her wielding the threat of calling the police on a (black) bird watcher who objected to her dog being off lead. It’s certainly a very satisfying part, from my perspective as a fan of karma...

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May 27, 2020, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
And then there’s this: Central Park Dog Walker Threatens Bird Watcher.

Now maybe part of the positive here is that the white (not a great person) dog walker is that her prior bad behavior came out because of her wielding the threat of calling the police on a (black) bird watcher who objected to her dog being off lead. It’s certainly a very satisfying part, from my perspective as a fan of karma...
She is the epitome of a "Karen". And what makes white women like her so dangerous is that the black man who simply asked her to leash her dog could have easily ended up dead like the black man in Minneapolis. And the fact that A) there are clear and unmistakable signs that dogs must be leashed in that area of the park, and B) she was well aware of the fact that this is the law .... was completely immaterial to her. A black man dared question her as a white woman. And she played the "race card" from the bottom of the deck in retaliation. The way white women have been known to do for centuries. There is absolutely nothing new about this phenomenon. Countless numbers of black men have been lynched and entire communities massacred and burned to the ground as the result of lies told by white women.

And for those who may not be familiar with the "vernacular" in use these days ....

"Becky" - A white woman who is ignorant of both her privilege and her prejudice.

"Karen" - A “Karen” is basically a graduated "Becky" who’s extremely aware of her privilege and weaponizes it. A "Becky" convinces herself—and attempts to convince others—that her whiteness doesn’t matter. A "Karen" doesn’t even bother to fake it. She knows it’s her Big Joker and plays it whenever necessary.
The Difference Between a 'Karen' and a 'Becky,' Explained | TheRoot.com

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May 27, 2020, 04:52 PM
 
And the initial Minneapolis PD story that George Floyd was "physically resisting arrest" has already fell apart.

Additional video shows George Floyd was not resisting arrest as police claimed | TheGrio.com

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reader50
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May 29, 2020, 02:21 AM
 
I wouldn't want to be in those 4 (former) officers' shoes normally. But right now, especially not. Commit a convincing-looking murder. Do it on camera, from multiple angles. In front of a ton of witnesses. Get fired collectively, and trigger nation-wide protests.

They're probably on airport watch lists. In case they try to flee the country.

However, the riot looting sucks. Those businesses (and car owners) most likely had nothing to do with the 4 cops. I can see burning the local police station, but removing small kitchen appliances (?) from local stores? Not seeing the political message there.
     
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May 29, 2020, 02:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I wouldn't want to be in those 4 (former) officers' shoes normally. But right now, especially not. Commit a convincing-looking murder. Do it on camera, from multiple angles. In front of a ton of witnesses. Get fired collectively, and trigger nation-wide protests.
Vigilantism is not a solution here.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
However, the riot looting sucks. Those businesses (and car owners) most likely had nothing to do with the 4 cops. I can see burning the local police station, but removing small kitchen appliances (?) from local stores? Not seeing the political message there.
If viewed in isolation it makes no sense, yes. But just think about the larger context: 40 % of the people who make under 40k have been laid off. Most of those are people of color. Wealth inequality has been growing for decades. Poorer people do not have access to health care, and people of color are overrepresented amongst the casualties of Covid-19. There is a lot of anger. Secondly, I'd be very cautious about thinking that this damage is representative of the protests as a whole.

I've seen something similar while I was in Chile during the riots there. The immediate trigger for the unrest was an increase in the subway fare. If you watched the international news, which took >1 week to really pick up on the topic (save for The Guardian), then you'd be forgiven to think that there was a civil war going on. In reality, though, most of the protests were peaceful, there were concerts in parks, peaceful assemblies with children where people gave out free water to other protestors, etc. On the other hand, on the day the protests erupted the police was ready. Already in the morning you had police officers in full riot gear at my subway stop. (That should have clued me in, but I haven't been in that situation before.) Even the very peaceful protestors at the posh university my friend and colleague worked at were shelled with tear gas. So it seems to me that both the police and the violent minority knew they were ready to “play”.

And I am saying that even though I was almost mugged and relieved of basically every important possession I had on the first day the protests really erupted. (I stuck to the large streets with people on my way home, but when I turned into the side street my AirBnB was located in, two guys pincered me. I had my Mac, my iPad, my passport, my wallet and a large bundle of cash (a reimbursement in cash from the university) in my backpack. Fortunately, a local yelled from his balcony and they let go of me.)
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May 29, 2020, 08:47 AM
 
…I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention.
“Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena,” he told the assembled crowd of mostly white doctors and academics. “They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking.”
One of the foundational notions of nonviolence is that in order to be respected, one must behave well and abide by the social contract: work hard, follow the rules, and prosper. The problem is that since the beginning of the Atlantic Slave Trade, black people had worked harder and followed more rules, more strictly than anyone in America. And still they found themselves in an impossible and impoverished situation. King might not have been as militant as the militants would have liked, and he may have become an even greater citizen of the world while cities were on fire, but by the time he spoke in the fall of 1967, he recognized that it would no longer be effective to tell black folks to only protest peacefully, kindly, and respectfully. They could not prosper in a game where they were the only ones expected to play by the rules. King closed that speech with a stark truth:
“Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society.”
If you've been quiet through 300+ years of systematic, planned, purposeful oppression and violence, of extralegal executions and law enforcement that condones, participates in, and refuses to prosecute those that oppress, but one dude stealing a toaster is what causes you to say, "WAIT A MINUTE NOW! We have LAWS!", then I don't know what to say to you.

Not pointed at anyone here specifically, but that's the general response from shitty white people during these types of events - Baltimore, Ferguson, etc.

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reader50
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May 29, 2020, 02:24 PM
 
Derek Chauvin (the knee-on-neck man) has been arrested and charged with manslaughter. Authorities anticipate charges against the other three. I expect the manslaughter charge will be upgraded when they have more evidence lined up for the court.
The Hennepin county attorney said Derek Chauvin has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter.

“There may be subsequent charges later,” Mike Freeman told reporters at a press conference. He said a detailed complaint would be made available this afternoon.
Since manslaughter is 3rd degree murder, undoubtedly both were listed by the department of redundancy department.
     
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May 31, 2020, 06:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
If you've been quiet through 300+ years of systematic, planned, purposeful oppression and violence, of extralegal executions and law enforcement that condones, participates in, and refuses to prosecute those that oppress, but one dude stealing a toaster is what causes you to say, "WAIT A MINUTE NOW! We have LAWS!", then I don't know what to say to you.

Not pointed at anyone here specifically, but that's the general response from shitty white people during these types of events - Baltimore, Ferguson, etc.
But going down on one knee before a sports game is SO disrespectful. So don't do that either.
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May 31, 2020, 11:02 AM
 
Riots in our city last night. Pretty much everywhere?

Cra-zy.
     
subego
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May 31, 2020, 12:01 PM
 
Yeah... we have a curfew, which is the kind of shit from before I was born I’ve always heard stories about.

It’s just one thing, but the 120 year old camera store I hung out at in art school burned down.
     
andi*pandi
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May 31, 2020, 12:19 PM
 
Apparently many of the people who started fires, breaking windows etc, were out of town white guys, some of whom are definitely white nationalists who came intentionally to stir shit and make things bad for black people. Of course Barr does a presser saying it was Antifa leftists.

last night many police in many cities gassed peaceful protesters, arrested journalists, rubber bullets into the crowd (one woman lost an eye) and otherwise being jerks.

Society has broken down. I mean, it wasn't great before, but what the hell is going on.

Notably different, and a cause for hope... in some places it went differently. In Flint Michigan the (white) sheriff put aside his baton and marched with protesters to cheers.

I hope the protest in Boston tonight ends peaceably and none of those outside instigators get away with anything.
     
Thorzdad
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May 31, 2020, 02:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Society has broken down. I mean, it wasn't great before, but what the hell is going on.
I think you’ll find the answer in your first paragraph. White nationalists have been working a long time for opportunities like this to foment their long-dreamed-for race war. Having a black president sent them over the edge, and now they have a president they see as a kindred, if not figurehead.

We have at least one dead here in Indy after last night. No one knows who shot whom right now. 8pm curfew tonight.

Trump, of course, says he’s going to declare antifa (which doesn’t exist as an organized, coherent group. it’s just a banner for the idea that fascism should be opposed by any means necessary) a terrorist group. Because, of course he would. The Proud Boys, the Three-Percenters, etc. approve wholeheartedly, I’m sure.
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May 31, 2020, 03:57 PM
 
I'm buying it that the looters are a distinct group from protesters, with minimal overlap. The protesters want policy changes, while the looters want to stir the pot. And/or score some cheap housewares. Protesters have been condemning the looters.
     
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May 31, 2020, 06:53 PM
 
What is all this doing for Trump's popularity? Can we call America officially fascist yet? Or do we have to wait until he starts trying to "postpone" the election?
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May 31, 2020, 06:55 PM
 
While I'm at it, the problem with your cops (aside from so many of them being under-trained, impotent, angry and constantly terrified authoritarians) is that as long as guns are so widespread they have an excuse to exercise extreme force in inappropriate situations because they have to assume everyone is heavily armed. Take away the guns, take away the fear, take away the excuses.
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May 31, 2020, 07:39 PM
 
I agree that with guns as expensive as they are, whites likely own more per-capita than blacks. So cops feel safer skipping politeness and going for max violence vs blacks. But taking away guns not only requires a suspension of the Constitution (which authoritarian regimes like to do), it would also give cops carte-blanche to safely go max violence on whites too.

I don't think this is a gun issue.

It's more an issue of law-enforcement-to-the-max policies, compounded by racism in the ranks, and an almost total lack of accountability. Cops are shielded by many laws, with courts giving them the benefit of the doubt beyond reason. Resulting in very few convictions. Even when bad cops are fired, they frequently get jobs in other police departments. Police union rules helpfully bury misconduct reports.
     
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May 31, 2020, 08:36 PM
 
There is a lot of focus on the looting and violence by protestors, but police is also showing their true colors. The Verge has a collection of more senseless police violence against protestors, bystanders, even people who dare to be on the porch of their own home (how dare you!). In many cases it just seems that the cops's frustration against the population they are supposed to serve is breaking out in the open — and affixed to (digital) film. It also explains better (≠ justifies) why police stations are put on fire.
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Jun 1, 2020, 10:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I agree that with guns as expensive as they are, whites likely own more per-capita than blacks. So cops feel safer skipping politeness and going for max violence vs blacks. But taking away guns not only requires a suspension of the Constitution (which authoritarian regimes like to do), it would also give cops carte-blanche to safely go max violence on whites too.
Thats a combination of not what I said and the usual "its the rules so it has to be the rules" nonsense.

Is it a gun issue? No. Its an issue that you have way over quota when it comes to racists and toxic inadequate men obsessing over fully auto penis extensions. And that so many of them are drawn to law enforcement and then poorly trained, disciplined and policed. Doesn't mean that sensible modern gun laws won't go a long way towards fixing it. You don't need to suspend the constitution, you need to amend it. Or more specifically unamend it.

Cops have to assume that anyone they stop or try to arrest is carrying a gun until they can search them for one.
Its not just the cops either. Burglars and trespassers get shot because homeowners are not only allowed but frequently encouraged to shoot intruders or just strangers on the street.
None of that explains why they shoot people with knives from long distances, or people who have the gall to run away or of course people who are unarmed and only suspected of very minor crimes. Nothing explains why you'd need to restrain anyone for nine minutes especially once they are on the floor and in cuffs.
Except (to a partial extent) that high stress level that comes from perpetual fear.

In the UK when someone approaches a cop on the street there's sometimes a slight wariness, but most of them are pretty good students of body language and can tell when they need to be on high alert and when someone is just going to ask them for directions or to help find a child that wandered off. I don't imagine that's true in the US. Every person who approaches them or looks at them funny as they pass. Every driver they stop, every jaywalker or shoplifter to them is only a split second away from pulling a mac 10 and killing them, their partner and half a dozen bystanders. Having high levels of stress hormones constantly in your bloodstream can cause all sorts of damage and from what I gather a high percentage of your cops are republicans which means they were probably already angry and paranoid to begin with.

The other thing we have is the Independent Police Complaints Commission. They investigate every instance of a police officer making a fatal shooting. Seems like a federal agency to investigate cases like George Floyd would be a good idea. Agents brought in from far afield with no cause to 'have the backs' of bad officers they will likely never work with again. I can't imagine its practical to investigate every fatality at police hands but they could start with the unarmed ones and those in custody.
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subego
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Jun 1, 2020, 11:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
What is all this doing for Trump's popularity?
Every major city in this country, all run by Democrats, have just literally set themselves on fire.

From a purely optical standpoint, this is an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats.
     
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Jun 2, 2020, 02:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Thats a combination of not what I said and the usual "its the rules so it has to be the rules" nonsense.
A bit of nonsense seemed called for. We have largely unaccountable police committing murders for years (this entire thread as evidence). No one is supposed to be deprived of their life without due process of the law. And certainly not by the law enforcers.

So a proposed solution to our right (to live) being lost ... is to take away another of our rights. So the police committing the murders will feel safer, and maybe murder less. With few consequences so far, I'm pretty sure they feel very safe already. Up to a week ago, anyway.
     
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Jun 2, 2020, 03:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
A bit of nonsense seemed called for. We have largely unaccountable police committing murders for years (this entire thread as evidence). No one is supposed to be deprived of their life without due process of the law. And certainly not by the law enforcers.
You see, that's a tricky point. If you look at how, statistically speaking, white people with guns are treated by police, then you are right that there are safer ways of police interacting with citizens. And it does not excuse lethal interactions with unarmed people such as the one that cost George Floyd's life.

However, the presence of guns does make many interactions with police more dangerous, e. g. when police executes a no knock warrant (how the eff is that a good idea) and the owner of the house (reasonably IMHO) thinks he or she is under attack by someone and defends him- or herself. Gun laws must be part of the discussion, because also gun laws are applied unfairly to people of color.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
So a proposed solution to our right (to live) being lost ... is to take away another of our rights. So the police committing the murders will feel safer, and maybe murder less. With few consequences so far, I'm pretty sure they feel very safe already. Up to a week ago, anyway.
I think this is a bit simplistic and feeds into the “The federal government is going to take all of our guns away.” narrative that is used to pump fear into a part of the population. More sensible gun legislation and regulation is absolutely necessary. Stand your ground laws are way too broad in most cases. Ditto for laws that essentially let most cops off the hook when they kill someone unnecessarily in the line of duty. Police should not be armed to the hilt with military tech from past wars. Gun ownership should be replaced with responsible gun ownership, i. e. clear rules that determine what you should know and how you should behave when you choose to own a firearm. For example, there should be a clear procedure in case a legally armed person is stopped or even arrested. We have had a video or two where the gun owner is a person of color and the cop panics. That should not happen.
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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 2, 2020, 07:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
So a proposed solution to our right (to live) being lost ... is to take away another of our rights. So the police committing the murders will feel safer, and maybe murder less. With few consequences so far, I'm pretty sure they feel very safe already. Up to a week ago, anyway.
The idea that losing a right is somehow heretical is just propaganda. Once upon a time you lost the right to own slaves. Perhaps you think that unreasonable?
It has other benefits of course, like making everyone genuinely safer. How awful.
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Jun 2, 2020, 10:28 AM
 
From a purely optical standpoint, this is an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats.
I could see how the right will try to spin it that way. The news does enjoy showing footage of fire over people kneeling. As to who started fires the most... let's not forget the outside instigators.

I don't think the President tear-gassing clergy so he could have a photo op in front of their church will go over well.
     
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Jun 2, 2020, 10:59 AM
 
If only things were this simple again ...

In a series of videos posted on Instagram, a White pregnant woman is filmed calling the police on a Black woman seemingly for sitting in a public park on the Upper West Side of New York City.

The soon-to-be mother identifies herself in the video as Svitlana Flom, who is a restaurateur and supposed socialite.

In the post of 10 short videos, the New Yorker, who in her bio identifies herself as a health care worker, says that Flom called police on her multiple times. “She was too ‘alarmed’ that I was sitting ‘comfortably’ in ‘her neighborhood.’

”She’s playing the Black card,” Flom is heard saying, “She’s filming me.”

According to user Pretty Brown‘s caption, the first call was because the woman thought she was smoking in public. By the third call, the post says, Flom was crying and saying that the woman behind the camera was threatening her and her children.

Flom said she wanted the footage to be erased. (OAW: Oh I'm sure you do now!)

In one of the videos, the Black woman pans the camera and says, “that’s my building. This is my neighborhood. I have the right to be here.”

Even more audaciously, when police finally come near the scene, Flom beckons to the woman filming to walk with her to them. “Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that? Me, leaving my comfort to walk with you to the police?”


According to the Daily Mail, Flom co-owns Madison Vivienne, a French restaurant with locations in Southampton and the Upper East Side.

The incident lasted for over an hour and the woman’s husband, former President and CEO of Jaguar Land Rover Manhattan Gary Flom, walked away early in the confrontation leaving his wife and children. She, however, remained sitting across from the woman filming her.

The Black woman said that she could have “walked away,” but wondered how the woman could feel “so privileged and so comfortable to tell me I should leave?”

Police did eventually arrive and told Flom that there was nothing to be done about a woman sitting in a public park in her own neighborhood.

theGrio reached out to the woman who posted the video but did not hear back from her by the time of publishing this story. An email requesting comment on the video was sent out to an email address listed on Flom’s Instagram page, but a return email indicated the email address is no longer active.
NYC socialite falsely calls cops on Black woman in public park: ‘She’s playing the Black card’ | TheGrio.com


OAW
     
Laminar
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Jun 2, 2020, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Every major city in this country, all run by Democrats, have just literally set themselves on fire.

From a purely optical standpoint, this is an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats.
Those with an ounce of empathy and a smidge of historical perspective will have the ability to understand what's happening. The self-absorbed reactionaries being told what to think by global media conglomerates will be very angry about the looting. So it will basically fall along party lines.
     
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Jun 2, 2020, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
let's not forget the outside instigators.
I don't think that's a helpful drum to keep beating. Whether 1% or 95% of the violence and destruction was triggered by these rumored outside actors, it reeks of conspiracy theories and overshadows the opportunity to explain why the violence is happening at all.

"Why are people looting and burning?"

"Well you know, it's Soros, Antifa, White Nationalists instigating it!"

vs.

"Well you know, here's 400 years of subjugation. Here's the genetics behind how trauma is passed down from generation to generation. Here's the blatant, obvious evidence of inequality in our "free" country. Here are all of the peaceful protests that went ignored or were mocked for being useless and pointless. Here's the history and context of racially-motivated riots. Here is what came from them."
     
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Jun 3, 2020, 07:09 AM
 
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reader50
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Jun 3, 2020, 08:49 PM
 
Derek Chauvin (the knee-on-neck man) had his charges updated to 2nd degree murder. The other three (J Alexander Kueng, Tou Thao and Thomas Lane) have now been charged with aiding and abetting murder.

It's not clear from the article if they've been arrested yet. They've probably made themselves scarce.
( Last edited by reader50; Jun 3, 2020 at 09:16 PM. Reason: typo)
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 4, 2020, 02:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Every major city in this country, all run by Democrats, have just literally set themselves on fire.

From a purely optical standpoint, this is an unmitigated disaster for the Democrats.
On the other hand, Trump is in charge, cops everywhere have felt empowered to attack peaceful protestors, bystanders and members of the press with fists, feet, batons, tasers, cars rubber bullets and paintballs in plain view of cameras with no apparent concern of being caught or punished. Troops are on the streets, Trump has threatened to deploy more troops (without being asked by the states), there are curfews all over and this is all following a terribly mismanaged response to a deadly pandemic.

America appears to be on the verge of collapse and/or fascist dictatorship under this president. If you're talking about the optics.
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Laminar
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Jun 4, 2020, 09:02 AM
 
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 4, 2020, 11:39 AM
 
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reader50
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Jun 4, 2020, 08:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Derek Chauvin (the knee-on-neck man) had his charges updated to 2nd degree murder. The other three (J Alexander Kueng, Tou Thao and Thomas Lane) have now been charged with aiding and abetting murder.

It's not clear from the article if they've been arrested yet. They've probably made themselves scarce.
The other three appeared in court today.
In Hennepin county district court, a judge set bail at $1m each for Tou Thao, Thomas Lane and J Alexander Kueng. Bail would be lowered to $750,000 if they agreed to certain conditions, including forfeiting any personal firearms.
I didn't see if bail was offered for Chauvin.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 5, 2020, 05:25 PM
 
Needy Amin mentioned George Floyd during his self-congratulation over having a 13% unemployment number...
"Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying: 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country.' This is a great day for him."
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Jun 13, 2020, 07:32 AM
 
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el chupacabra
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Jun 15, 2020, 12:44 PM
 
Driving drunk then attacking a cop then grabbing a weapon (that liberals always argue is deadly when it fits their double standard narrative) & discharging at police while trying to escape because he thought he could get away with anything for being black...

How unprofessional the racist kkk cop was. Don’t the police know they’re suppose to have the professionalism of a bellboy while being expected to wrestle & overpower every single criminal fighting them without hurting that poor innocent criminal? For god sakes that criminal who wouldve eventually killed someone on the road has a FAMILY! Stop asking innocent intelligent people to do such difficult things as freeze & comply with our very weak rules & laws.
You arent special. You dont have value just because you were born. You are a net drain on the planet. Respect must be earned & your value must be proven.
     
 
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