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kcmac · Sep 23, 2003, 09:23 AM

What laptop/and or desktop is Panther not compatable with so far? Is it the DP 450?

Could this update be linked to that issue?

BTW. Works fine on my 12"PB and my 400DVSE iMac.

kulverse · Sep 23, 2003, 09:32 AM

For those of us with Network issues with 10.2.8. The fix is here. Basically you need to put the old AppleGMACEthernet.kext from 10.2.6 in the System/Library/Extensions folder. There is a link to the old file in the link provided.

GG Apple

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@@.5999d9d9/10

The AppleGMACEthernet.kext driver in /System/Library/Extensions has been updated from 1.2.4 to 1.3.0. The 1.3.0 version apparently breaks the onboard ethernet somehow. I found someone who had not yet installed the update, and copied their kext to a CD. To install it, back up your existing kext to your home directory, and then go to the terminal:

cd /System/Library/Extensions
sudo rm -Rf AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz
sudo cp -r /path/to/AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz .
cd ..
sudo rm Extensions.kextcache
sudo rm Extensions.mkext

Now reboot. The last two lines clear out the cache of Extensions. I don't know if they're strictly necessary. I posted the old kext at

http://web.mit.edu/apm/www/AppleGMACEthernet.tar.gz

I take absolutely no responsibility for this fix. Your mileage may vary. Please don't blame me if you hose your system doing this. Hope this helps.

Andrew

Cipher13 · Sep 23, 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Love Calm Quiet:
Question for ///Milien...

I've got same TiBook as you - your battery performance unchanged?

Q for all PB users: are ALL of you having battery degrading effects? Is it ALL models? Is it a guarantee my battery performance'll be scrood or just a risk?

I am (iBook).
Solidage is (PB 12")
AlbertWu is (Ti of some sort?)

Gator Lager · Sep 23, 2003, 09:54 AM

DP 450 here
I had the same problem. I rebooted to my other harddrive, yep OS9 drive, then switched back to OS X drive. TAA DAA, everything is ok??
Before I did this, I looked in SystemPrefs/Sharing. The network address was
blah....local huh?
Then I selected networking. The IP, Subnet mask address were screwed up and no sign of a router number.
But like I just mentioned everything is nominal now?

Anand · Sep 23, 2003, 10:02 AM

On my computers - a 800 iMac, a 933 G4 and a 1 Ghz Tibook everything is fine - except for the transparent dock - but that is easily fixed. Otherwise safari feels a lot faster - almost like it feels in Panther.

Timo · Sep 23, 2003, 10:08 AM

on this AlumPB 12" battery life is the same

PubGuy · Sep 23, 2003, 10:35 AM

Hey folks. Everyone that experienced the problem with the ethernet dying on the 10.2.8 update I have a quick survey question for you:

Do you have "BroadbandOptimizer" installed?

I'm wondering if Apple did something with the .kext that is now conflicting with Broadband Optimizer and reverting to the 10.2.6 .kext solves the problem.

Any thoughts????

PeterKG · Sep 23, 2003, 10:41 AM

Hi!

I told a freind in Hawaii about the update to 10.2.8. She was running Software Update, and sometime during the process her screen went black and all that was there was the mouse arrow. She restarted her computer without completing the update. Everything seemed fine but she can't open Classic.

It tells her she had a Resourse Update Error- when attempt to update the System Folder with Classic specific resources.

Can she download the 10.2.8 Combo updater and run it again over the first bad install? When she tried to run it through Software Update, it told her she was up to date. If not what would you suggest? It sounds like the installation did not properly complete. Thanks for any help!

Peter

gorgonzola · Sep 23, 2003, 10:50 AM

TiBook 15" (the last one), same battery life issue. Starts out at about 1:55-2 hours.

Love Calm Quiet -- if you have a PowerBook, just don't install it. In a week or two they'll likely have an updater available that fixes it, but so many laptop users have this issue that it's really not worth the risk. You could get lucky, but why bother? It's just another two weeks or so (due to QA and whatnot), and since it's a laptop, you're probably not running stuff like sshd anyway.

This seems to be the first really crappy Mac OS X update we've had so far...

RooneyX · Sep 23, 2003, 10:51 AM

I'm still trying to figure out those smug types who bother to post 'No problems here'. As if anyone needs to know.

These are the problems I've had with the update:

PB17 : Reduced battery life, reduced keyboard backlight brightness, sound to external speakers still need to be manually balanced, Flash downgraded.

PB12 : Reduced battery life, Flash downgraded.

rvassar · Sep 23, 2003, 10:52 AM

Working fine on my Beige mini-tower, with a Sonnet G4/500. Now I have USB 2.0! Just in time too... My wife bought me a USB 2.0 attached hard disk yesterday, and it really sucked at USB 1.1 speeds.

Rob

rvassar · Sep 23, 2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I'm still trying to figure out those smug types who bother to post 'No problems here'. As if anyone needs to know.

If someone is sitting on the fence, trying to decide if they should install it, then perhaps the positive responses are helpful. Based on this thread, if I had a powerbook, I'd think twice. But my old Beige loves it. So other Beige owners may find my post useful.

NeXTLoop · Sep 23, 2003, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
TiBook 15" (the last one), same battery life issue. Starts out at about 1:55-2 hours.

Love Calm Quiet -- if you have a PowerBook, just don't install it.

I second this advice. Just go over to the PB forums, and you'll see this update has created a crop of problems. Another issue PB owners are having is dimmed keyboard illumination. After the update the illumination is hardly noticeable, even when set on the highest setting.

Also, individuals in the PB forum have tried resetting the PRAM, resetting the PM, and even re-calibrating the batteries on their machines. Nothing seems to fix the power drain.

Seems Apple didn't test this update on PowerBooks as much as they should have.

crayz · Sep 23, 2003, 11:08 AM

PubGuy - I am pretty sure I did install that at one point in the past

Gator - Yes, the same steps wound up fixing my G4. Not sure if a simple restart might have done it as well

mitchell_pgh - When did I say the sky was falling? I told people not to install this update because it killed my networking and did for many others as well. Honestly no one who installed this and then had to find a second computer to go around figuring out a way to replace .kext files gives a flying f*ck about how nicely this update worked for you.

My post was a warning, because honestly this is a tiny update and if a decent percentage of users experience a huge problem because of it, it doesn't seem worth installing

The only possible explanation I can find for your absolutely virulent attacks in this thread are that you are such a Mac zealot that you don't even think the suggestion of a problem with Apple's software should be let stand, regardless of the truth of the claim.

You are, in short, a sad, sad man.

Powaqqatsi · Sep 23, 2003, 11:17 AM

I don't think I'm installing it

since I have a TiBook 867. Does Apple even test this crap ??

Moose · Sep 23, 2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I'm still trying to figure out those smug types who bother to post 'No problems here'. As if anyone needs to know.

I'm still trying to figure out those whiny types who bother to post "BIG PROBLEMS!!! DO NOT INSTALL THIS UPDATE!" As if anyone needs to know.

"No problems" is a datum. "Problems" is also a datum. For the impact to be known, it's important to know the true proportion of "no problems" to "problems." Also, any commonality among the "problems," especially when this commonality is different from the "no problems" is useful to determine what the issue might be.

While MacNN Forums isn't necessarily the place for such a study (due to voluntary response), hearing a proportion of "problems" and "no problems" is a lot better than hearing "I HAVE BIG PROBLEMS AND I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOU FOLKS WITHOUT PROBLEMS BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL PIGFU?KERS JESUS JESUS JESUS JUST SHUT UP ALREADY ABOUT YOU NOT HAVING PROBLEMS."

solbo · Sep 23, 2003, 11:22 AM

I had this same problem after an Airport update about a month ago. Suddenly all my networking just broke. Finally I deleted 2 files:

/private/var/db/SystemConfiguration/com.apple.airport.preferences.xml

and

/private/var/db/SystemConfiguration/preferences.xml

Then I restarted. I then reconfigured my network and everything was great. They must have been corrupt.

j0nkatz · Sep 23, 2003, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I'm still trying to figure out those smug types who bother to post 'No problems here'. As if anyone needs to know.

These are the problems I've had with the update:

PB17 : Reduced battery life, reduced keyboard backlight brightness, sound to external speakers still need to be manually balanced, Flash downgraded.

PB12 : Reduced battery life, Flash downgraded.

NO PROBLEMS HERE!

xi_hyperon · Sep 23, 2003, 11:33 AM

TiBook 500mhz here - I'm experiencing shortened battery life too.

absmiths · Sep 23, 2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I'm still trying to figure out those smug types who bother to post 'No problems here'. As if anyone needs to know.

People do need to know. If you think that your problem is your battery and 50 other people with your battery don't have the problem, then you need to look elsewhere (just an example).

I'm still trying to figure out all these people who can't think logically.

absmiths · Sep 23, 2003, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
TiBook 500mhz here - I'm experiencing shortened battery life too.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Safari running at 70% CPU when idle. I updated my Ti667 and Beige G3/300 with 10.2.8 and have full networking still, but I can't check my battery since I am away. I just did a top, however, and this is what I got:

PID COMMAND %CPU TIME #TH #PRTS #MREGS RPRVT RSHRD RSIZE VSIZE
551 Safari 67.3% 91:57.43 6 115 237 12.4M 8.75M 17.5M 74.7M
454 Finder 7.4% 4:19.60 6 156 273 3.82M 18.0M 8.26M 91.1M
567 top 6.6% 1:36.90 1 15 18 268K 284K 460K 13.6M
0 kernel_tas 1.6% 13:20.42 30 0 - - - 43.0M 488M

and this is with Safari sitting at home unattended. The CPU varies between 60% and 80%, with the majority of the time being spent around 72%. I think it might be displaying www.weather.com. and I don't remember if it did this before. I always use the power adapter so I am not too concerned, but it is annoying nonetheless. What does battery life look like without/with Safari running?

OwlBoy · Sep 23, 2003, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by Moose:
I'm still trying to figure out those whiny types who bother to post "BIG PROBLEMS!!! DO NOT INSTALL THIS UPDATE!" As if anyone needs to know.

"No problems" is a datum. "Problems" is also a datum. For the impact to be known, it's important to know the true proportion of "no problems" to "problems." Also, any commonality among the "problems," especially when this commonality is different from the "no problems" is useful to determine what the issue might be.

While MacNN Forums isn't necessarily the place for such a study (due to voluntary response), hearing a proportion of "problems" and "no problems" is a lot better than hearing "I HAVE BIG PROBLEMS AND I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ABOUT YOU FOLKS WITHOUT PROBLEMS BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL PIGFU?KERS JESUS JESUS JESUS JUST SHUT UP ALREADY ABOUT YOU NOT HAVING PROBLEMS."

My sentiments exactly.

-Owl

SMacTech · Sep 23, 2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
People do need to know. If you think that your problem is your battery and 50 other people with your battery don't have the problem, then you need to look elsewhere (just an example).

I'm still trying to figure out all these people who can't think logically.

Yes, people do need to know that this problem is not occurring to everyone as much as we need to know there is a problem.

BTW, I had no problems with my cube, but I didn't stay in 10.2.8 too long, as I booted back into Panther to try and find its problems.

parsec · Sep 23, 2003, 12:16 PM

gigahertz tibook. I unplugged after seeing this thread, and started at about 2.5 hours.
I don't often use the battery, so I'm not sure what I'd normally get, but I think it's probably higher.
It didn't seem to be decreasing as rapidly as people here are saying though.

-parsec

KidRed · Sep 23, 2003, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by AlbertWu:
nearly 50% of all apple sales are laptops. if nearly 50% of people that have bought macs now have issues with 10.2.8, i doubt it is an "isolated" issue.

also, many people depend on their ethernet ports for updates. if apple ****ed up their ethernet port, and they don't know how to swap out a kext, how are they going to fix it? (or even complain about it online?)

take your foot out of your mouth before you choke. i swear, some people are just so sheltered.

lay off. no one forced you to read this thread.

Well as it seems only G4 400/450 users are affected then yes, it looks as tho it's an isolated incident.

Need help getting *your* foot out of your mouth?

No problems here on QS dual gig and 800ghz iMac.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Sep 23, 2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by KidRed:
Well as it seems only G4 400/450 users are affected then yes, it looks as tho it's an isolated incident.

My G4 450 Cube is fine.

mitchell_pgh · Sep 23, 2003, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
My G4 450 Cube is fine.

I would like to retract the statement that this is an isolated incident. Three people (Mac users) at work came up to me after installing the update with "Ummm, why doesn't my computer work" type questions.

Yes, I was wrong...

Arkham_c · Sep 23, 2003, 12:53 PM

I installed on a B&W G3/350 and an iBook/600.

No known issues with either (Ethernet works on both).

As to battery life, my iBook's battery has been shot for months, so I can't make any global statements about battery life.

I am running XCharge as a test. Battery has dropped 7% in 7 minutes. At that rate, I'll get 1 hour 40 minutes, which is about what I was getting before the update.

parkscorner · Sep 23, 2003, 01:09 PM

<There is a post in the other 10.2.8 thread about it killing networking. This is *CONFIRMED*.>

Ditto here. My 4 hour old PowerBook 17" 1.3 Ghz ran fine via a new AirPort base station until I attempted to install 10.2.8. The installation failed without explanation. I tried 2 more times without success.

When I reinstalled OS 10.2.7, I then lost WiFi contact with the internet. Curiously the "DCHP" option was intermittently available for both the "Network" preference panel, and for the "Internet Connection" application. This means that the "DCHP" option in the pull down menu is sometimes visible and sometimes invisible. This is true whether I connect to the Aiport base station or go in directly with the ethernet cable from the IDSL modem. I receive a dynamic IP, but all internet apps time out in OS X and Classic mode.

A second reinstall from the original DVD fixed nothing.

Several other quirks occured less serious than loss of TCP/IP. The machine has been returned.

crayz · Sep 23, 2003, 01:12 PM

Yes, I was wrong...

Thank you. Not everyone would be willing to say this. I think it speaks well of you

maxelson · Sep 23, 2003, 01:16 PM

Massive updating all across my network. One reported issue which was traced to a corrupted finder. No other calls to this point. Had more upping to 10.2.6.

jasong · Sep 23, 2003, 01:31 PM

I am posting this from a TiBook with no networking and 20 seconds of battery life

OK, seriously, on my Beige G4/400 everything is fine, and I can't see/feel any differences.

On my TiBook, my networking runs better than before, it actually feels like my broadband got upgraded (maxing out a 1.5 Mb DSL line). Battery life seems to be about the same. I reset the PMU and and doing a battery calibration so I can see for sure. One thing noticed is that my energy saver was set to DVD Playback and not Automatic. I am not saying the update did this, since I was traveling last week, but those of you having battery issues might want to check your Energy Settings just in case.

Anyway, from where I stand, I say install the sucker.

-- Jason

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Sep 23, 2003, 01:38 PM

Are you all using DHCP server?

Gator Lager · Sep 23, 2003, 01:39 PM

well I did a restart and the problem returned. off to OS 9 drive then back to OS X drive. and everything is all better (temporary)
Next question? how do I uninstall this update.
Guess I get to do what I just did this past weekend. Erase and reinstall (OS X).
yea for me.

so the moral to the story is: if you have a DP 450 don't do this upgrade. can't speak for others.

crayz and others: you might want to do a restart to see if you have the same problem

absmiths · Sep 23, 2003, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by jasong:
...
One thing noticed is that my energy saver was set to DVD Playback and not Automatic. I am not saying the update did this, since I was traveling last week, but those of you having battery issues might want to check your Energy Settings just in case.

My energy settings before where "Custom" and they are still set for that. The options themselves seem not to have changed as well.

solitere · Sep 23, 2003, 02:01 PM

FYI, I updated today following macs to 10.2.8:

- 1 Pismo 500 mhz Powerbook
- 1 Powerbook 12"
- 2 "Digital Audio" G4 PM
- 20 "Quicksilver"G4 733 PM
- 1 "Quicksilver" G4 2x1 ghz
- 1 iMac Graphite 400 mhz'

Only problem so far that I encountered and noticed that that the audio slider on the sound meny was turned to the left On the Pismo and the "digital audio" Powermacs.

I have had no ethernet or display problems that many have reported!
- 10.2.8 seems a bit snappier on the older machines?

macgyvr64 · Sep 23, 2003, 02:04 PM

Working fine on my dual 500. It took a while to boot after installing, but it's okay.

cyberkid__s · Sep 23, 2003, 02:20 PM

I haven't had any major issues with 6 machines I installed 10.2.8 on, but I did see a couple of machines (iBook G3-300 & TiBook 867 DVI) occasionally lose the network connection without any known reasons all of a sudden. I looked in the System Preferences Network panel and there was no IP address or anything. It looked as if it was the same thing people have been discussing here.

First I thought I needed to reboot, but then I tried to log off and log back in and the network came right back. Then it happened again after an hour or so on both machines, so I simply pulled the Ethernet cable off and then plugged back in, and the connection came back right away. It's been staying on for hours since then, so I am not sure if it is related to the 10.2.8 issue, but while the network was lost on those machines all other machines were able to connect, so I wonder if it's related....

pendragon · Sep 23, 2003, 02:38 PM

Re the network probems. MacFixIt posted this:

"In some cases, 100 Mbps Ethernet continues to work, but the 10 Mbps mode is disabled. George Warner writes "The Mac OS X 10.2.8 update installed fine but I lost networking including ability to talk to my Apple Airport Extreme. After some experimenting, I was able to determine that my Mac (Dual-500 G4) was not able to talk to my 10 Base-T network. 10 Base-T is the least common denominator on my LAN. I require it for some other devices. Apparently, my updated Mac is stuck at 100 Base-T. A hub which provides a 10 to 100 bridge was able to band-aid my problem."

The solution is to revert the AppleGMACEthernet.kext from the new version (1.3.0) to the 10.2.6 version (1.2.4) and reboot. This file is located in System/Library/Extensions. You can pull this file from an older Mac OS X system that has not yet been updated, then replace it by booting into Mac OS 9 and overwriting the old file (which you should back up, just in case).

Of course, the main problem is that many readers who need this fix are not able to access the Internet after performing the Mac OS X 10.2.8 update. If you know some fellow Mac users who might be experiencing the issue, you may want to bring them the old AppleGMACEthernet.kext file on a CD.

Also, it is not yet known what other problems might be caused by using the old .kext file with the new version of Mac OS X."

BTW, If you need the want the v1.2.4 AppleGMACEthernet.kext file, just email me with AppleGMACEthernet.kext in the subject line.

ralphh · Sep 23, 2003, 03:12 PM

The battery life readout seems wrong by about a factor of two on my Ti 500.

I've just timed mine while running on battery only, and I'm 5 minutes from the time it originally said the battery should die and still have 51% charge left.

Can anyone else confirm this?

zandacar · Sep 23, 2003, 03:26 PM

I have a Gigabit Ethernet dual 500 MHZ,
and I also got nailed by the dead network.

I run a 10MHz ethernet LAN, so for those
of you running other duals, check your
lan speed. I suspect only 10MHz connections are failing, and those of you running 100Mhz are OK. Don't know what a 1 Gig LAN will do.

Kenneth · Sep 23, 2003, 03:31 PM

DP 1.25 here...
no Ethernet issue here...
Love the result.

LfGrdMike · Sep 23, 2003, 03:40 PM

My laptops battery life is well over 3 hours so Im all good. NP with update.

things · Sep 23, 2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by crayz:
It is now fixed. I am on a G4/400(gigabit). The fix was simply another restart into OS X. Somehow this corrected things. Others have not been so lucky.

And for Socially Awkward Solo, it is "confirmed" because I installed 10.2.8 on 3 computers, and one's network got killed.

And because others have had this problem. Am I supposed to care that you didn't? Is the fact that not everyone, or even not the vast majority of people, have a certain problem, mean that this update isn't dangerous?

yes

RAILhead · Sep 23, 2003, 03:47 PM

FWIW, five Macs and none had any issues with the update on my local network.

N.L · 03:57 PM

Edit: Nevermind

things · Sep 23, 2003, 03:57 PM

If your system is a mess then the update will probably give you problems.

If your system is nice and tight- the update shouldn't be any trouble at all.

Think before you update and before you

ryju · Sep 23, 2003, 03:58 PM

No problems here...at all...ever.

MDA · Sep 23, 2003, 03:58 PM

Originally posted by N.L:
I'm not sure if someone else mentioned it, but after installing the update, Safari no longer shows the downloads in the download window - the list is empty, though the download count at the bottom of the window is correct and the file is downloaded to the desktop. Anyone else notice this?

It still shows them for me. Make sure that "Remove download list items" isn't set to "Upon Successful Download" in the Safari General preferences.

MDA

Dale Sorel · Sep 23, 2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by crayz:
Do Not Install 10.2.8

Whatever dude...my USB connection on my keyboard now sees my digital camera consistently