[sheer]

Originally posted by xylon:
I can't understand why anyone would want to do grahpic design on anything but a Mac. I work as technical help at my University's Media Relations center and we only work on Macs. While there will always be problems, I've found that they're minimal and often related to user error. Macs are the standard for graphical design and the fact that your IT head doesn't realize this is quite appalling. I'd definitely put all my weight behind a motion to get Macs, or even to have a few test machines running OS X before you commit yourselves to P4's.

I've been trying to extol the benefits of OSX since it's release. The fact that it's got better and better since then, while m$ seem to take as many steps backwards as forwards seems lost on him. He seriously believes 2k Pro is the dog's danglies. And from a systems tech point of view, would you want to be patching 200+ machines as often as m$ machines need patching? The easy solution would be to have them update automatically, tho with the 256k dedicated line we have (I live half a mile away and have 1mbit ADSL, MR IT guru won't even go to 512k ADSL @ 20:1 contention as he says it's only as quick as our current 256k @ 10:1 contention, just so you can see the level of idiocy I have to deal with). Don't get me wrong, I use a PC (XP Pro) at home (gaming/music/3d) which integrates nicely with the OSX box we have, and personally I have no issues with it FOR THAT PURPOSE, but as you said, Macs are the industry standard, especially in print media which is what I work in.

[Cadaver]

I'm faculty at the medical center of a Big 10 university, and on the medical campus the only "supported" machines are a few specific Dell models running the med. center image of Windows NT! Gack!

So, I bring my PowerBook in to use in my office, and I ask one of the IT guys I'm familiar with about connecting it to the Novell network.
"Cool," he says. "I'm about to buy myself a 17" PowerBook."
I come to find out that at least 4 other medical center IT guys use OS X at home, and at least as many contemplating G5s!

It's amazing... the only "supported" system is WinNT 4.0, but a good chunk of the IT department use/want OS X. Many others use Mandrake.

Needless to say, getting my Mac connected was no problem - they had a pre-prepared a document detailing exactly how to connect OS X and the Prosoft Novell client to the network

[voyageur]

Originally posted by Cadaver:

I come to find out that at least 4 other medical center IT guys use OS X at home, and at least as many contemplating G5s!

It's amazing... the only "supported" system is WinNT 4.0, but a good chunk of the IT department use/want OS X. Many others use Mandrake.

Time for a revolution...

[Rainy Day]

Originally posted by sheer:
from a systems tech point of view, would you want to be patching 200+ machines as often as m$ machines need patching?

That's called "job security" (for the admin).

[gomariners]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
No, there is no logical reason at all for his actions... He just doesn't like other machines, or seemingly any OS that is not Windows NT!

(Although I think Macs are a particular hatred for him...)

I have permission from the Uni central IT dept, an open access ethernet point to connect to... everything is set up. It just needs him to sign the paper and sort out a login in... and he won't.

Hey Placid,
Here's an idea that probably won't work and someone has no doubt already written but I haven't noticed.

I'm in a Dell/Mac house (I'm the mac, girlfriend is the dell). If you got a Dell that had 802.11b couldn't you hook it to the network and use it as a wireless router? I'm sure the sysadmin found out he'd be po'd but I won't tell him if you won't.

I think you can do this, just like on the Mac. Through the "let others access the internet through my connection" option.

[OsakaBill]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
No, there is no logical reason at all for his actions... He just doesn't like other machines, or seemingly any OS that is not Windows NT!

Actually, there is something of a logical reason for his actions. Windows networking offers the IT department to create something much like Users in Mac OS X. When students fire-up their PCs, they login to the system with their account. The account allows them to access certain apps and preferences only and allows them to store documents on the file server. This allows for a measure of security and control, much as the Admin of a Mac OS X maintains a level of security and control over other users of the machine.

A Mac cannot access this Windows user system directly. But the thing is, you wouldn't need to. All that would be needed was access to part of the server where documents reside. You'd be using your own local apps.

Actually...I was at a univeristy set up as I described above. I was able, by using a student's password, able to access the file server and Internet witout fail (from a TiBook running 10.2.6).

The thing is, you would not need to access this system. You would be

[iomatic]

But, you should make a business case for it. If you don't have experience with Flash on Macs, Illustrator, Quark or Indesign, or Photoshop, also, well, thanks for sending your r�sum� in, but we probably won't be hiring you.

Our agency and every agency I've worked for (except for one dot-com that insisted on forcing us to use PCs, which of course is NOW DEFUNCT), uses Macs, and it's because they're simply easier to deal with in a money-sensitive production timeline. We can't afford to go down, while our IT manager runs around patching Windows and fixing hardware for the Account team.

Feel free to send this post to your administrators.

Originally posted by klinux:
Sure, easy for you to say but you are not the one who has to do the budgeting.

Hey, I am not bashing Apple but if someone comes to me with free computing power, I am not going to turn it down.

[smezjj]

"I am wondering if assassination is a valid solution..."

If you would like to go that route I am available. Don't worry about contacting me, I will find you.

[sheer]

Originally posted by Rainy Day:
That's called "job security" (for the admin).

This is true, tho if they actually spent some time making the NT network run as it should and fixing macs as they should they would still have 'job security' (not that job security should be an issue when you only have 1 manager + 2 sys techs)

[olePigeon]

Ah budgets. "But it's cheaper now, let's worry about being broke next year."

You'll be hit real hard after the first year when you have to pony up for client access licenses, upgrade licenses, and additional fees.

That doesn't include repairs not covered in the warranty.

CSU system went through the exact same thing. Getting rid of all their Macs for Dells. Now they're bankrupt.

Guess some people never learn.

Good luck.

[Talleyman]

Originally posted by Super Glitcher:
LOL

damn.. that sucks. Time to start bringin in your own powerbook to work on. That's what I do...

Me Too! It's So great to have a good OS to work with every day..XP has a new set of updates at least once a week. I love my new powerbook...connects to our novell network without hassell.

JT

[ciphun]

care to post his email address?

:-)

[theDailyGrind]

Originally posted by rlane:
We recently dumped our Apple systems to Dell Inspirons 5100s running XP Pro. What the "F" were we thinking?

Even without the grant, the cost savings are impressive; especially if you are buying hundreds of machines.

For example, the Dell catalog that came with this morning's paper offers 3.2GHz 1GB @ 400MHz / 120GB + DVD burner + Radeon 9800 with 17" CRT for A$3,000. A 1.6GHz G5 starts at A$3,300 on the education pricelist. Plus a cheap monitor and RAM upgrade, and it's A$1000 dearer for an inferior machine. I am having doubts whether I can justify spending the extra dough when I replace my ancient G3 iMac.

Apple does deserve some kudoes for the eMac, which is price-competitive at the lower end of the market, where unis & schools should be buying, but Dell's prices are very alluring.

[Thinine]

That price is offset by the fact that it's Windows. If your time is worth nothing, then the Dell may just be cheaper. But if you want a computer to use instead of fix, get the Mac.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by theDailyGrind:
For example, the Dell catalog that came with this morning's paper offers 3.2GHz 1GB @ 400MHz / 120GB + DVD burner + Radeon 9800 with 17" CRT for A$3,000. A 1.6GHz G5 starts at A$3,300 on the education pricelist.

Where are you? The dual G5/2.0 is $2999 for us regular folk from www.apple.com. It has mostly the same specs, and is a superior machine in EVERY respect to the Dell.

Dell makes 1 thing - cheap WinBlows $hit computers. They are not quality machines by any stretch of the imagination. They are dirt cheap because the components in them come from the bottom of the barrel and the cheapest sources imaginable. Not quality. I say that with 10+ years as a PC tech to back me up.

Dell = Crap. You're better off going with a teir 2 vendor or a local shop and getting a much better box in just about every respect.

[cal4ever]

I usually take for granted how liberal and progressive (even technically!) my university is, until I read threads like this. I go to the University of California, Berkeley and I work for the student computing facilities on campus. The facilities here are made up of PCs (running Windows ME) and G4 towers (w/ Jaguar, 256mb, 867mhz (I think)). I think there are as many macs in the facilities as there are pcs. If not, it's pretty close to even.

In fact, I decided to switch because I saw so many of my professors using powerbooks or ibooks for class. I figured, if they can use macs in the academic world, I'm sure I'd able to as well.

As far as network problems (connecting to the university network and servers in the dorms), I haven't heard about any. The university just launched a wireless network on campus, and I found that there are more PC users who are having trouble connecting to wireless network than we, mac users

So, GO BEARS! :-P and go macs!

[jeremyh]

For example, the Dell catalog that came with this morning's paper offers 3.2GHz 1GB @ 400MHz / 120GB + DVD burner + Radeon 9800 with 17" CRT for A$3,000. A 1.6GHz G5 starts at A$3,300 on the education pricelist. Plus a cheap monitor and RAM upgrade, and it's A$1000 dearer for an inferior machine.

What educational pricing are you looking at? I can get a G5 1.8 with 1GB RAM, a SuperDrive, 160GB Serial ATA HD, RADEON 9800 Pro, 17" Mitsubishi monitor, all for $2,888.00 from our educational site. If I wanted to spend as much on my Mac as the Dell I could bump up to the 250GB Serial ATA HD and be right at $3000.

Viruses and worms not included

[jamesa]

Originally posted by coolmacdude:
Rendezvous kind of does the same thing. Oh well.

Not really. AppleTalk used to send out its own specific packets - as if you were transferring information. Rendezvous simply tacks itself on to empty space in TCP packets. Big difference - there's virtually no overhead.

As for Placid's problem - why don't you take it to the student newspaper? He might not like all the publicity

-- james

[zusch]

I teach at a University in Virginia, and when I asked why our institution had not gone all-OSX yet, the IT guy said "OSX is full of holes, and they have to be locked down or all kinds of problems will arise."

Huh?? Holes??

Apparently this guy has a very limited sense of irony. This was in the midst of the recent PC worm epidemic. I refrained from pointing out that the whole worm problem is possible because XP still ships with five of its ports WIDE OPEN, all of which, of course, come closed by default in OSX. Or that nothing can install itself on the computer without the admin password. Or that THERE AREN'T ANY VIRUSES OR WORMS THAT AFFECT OSX (yet). How could this guy talk about OSX's "holes" with a straight face?

People are fixated on government as "big brother" practicing mind control and squandering public money, meanwhile not noticing that it's huge, monolithic corportations like Microsoft that are the real criminals. They manage to make billions of dollars while putting out a product that is about as reliable as a 10-year old Yugo, all while practicing what can only be called mass-mind control. How else can you explain PC users' attitudes?

Nice job, Microsoft!

[besson3c]

I think that policies like this about particular platforms in a University Environment are an abstraction above a more fundimental problem.

The real question, to me, is is the University a trade school or a University? The objectives of a trade school are to prepare people for work, whatever is used within the market (therefore, in many cases, PCs). The teaching approach is "xxx for dummies", students memorize whatever steps they need to do whatever in the particular version of the hot app of the week.

Most Universities are about teaching concepts and critical thinking, so that students don't need to just memorize a bunch of steps and can begin to understand the sum of the parts. In an environment like this, the best tools for the job need to be used, and in many cases these are Macs.

I have heard many rants like these in Universities like ours, but nothing is rarely done. People who are entangled in the politics are afraid to make a move which would disrupt the political climate.

If you have nothing to lose, write some letters.... there is *always* somebody to write to, always somebody higher up in the chain. Stuff *does* get done this way, with persistence, or at least these questions are brought to the fore and both sides examined.

[FoxFour]

1. Get old PC. Admin will give you log in, probably with admonishment to not use your "unauthorized Macintosh."

2. Go off campus and connect to internet. Go to: http://www.microsoft.com/mac/otherpr...windows2000sfm
Download appropriate UAM for your Mac OS version. Install.

3. Remove PC. Plug in Mac. Hey presto, you're a PC to the network and you can ignore the idiot.

[jendmb34]

I was recently accepted into a part-time MBA program, and am considering purchasing a laptop. The business program building is completely wireless. The school's website states the following:

IEEE 802.11a is the preferred wireless networking standard. 802.11b will be available, where necessary.

Am I going to have a problem if I decide to go with a mac? I am considering purchasing the 15" powerbook g4 with the superdrive. I just emailed their computer support people to see if they think I will have problems. Their website says that they do not support macs

[jendmb34]

their response was as follows:

The SecureW2 wireless client and configuration for wireless will only
work on Windows XP machines. It is not compatible for MAC. If you want
wireless connectivity support on campus you will need to purchase a
Windows XP compatible machine.



Thank You,
User Support


Is there any way to get around this? Bear with me, I'm new to this stuff...

[besson3c]

Originally posted by jendmb34:
their response was as follows:

The SecureW2 wireless client and configuration for wireless will only
work on Windows XP machines. It is not compatible for MAC. If you want
wireless connectivity support on campus you will need to purchase a
Windows XP compatible machine.



Thank You,
User Support


Is there any way to get around this? Bear with me, I'm new to this stuff...

Here is your letter for them:

Dear User Support,

MAC is not an acronym, you freaking idiot.

Can you please tell me which parts of campus support wireless B? Is a VPN connection required? If so, what is the VPN server name.



(since this sounds like a very MS-centric campus, I'm sure the VPN will be PPTP, which OS X supports)

Chances are, you can get online on a wireless B network. No chance with A (that I know of).

[Scooterboy]

Originally posted by jendmb34:
I was recently accepted into a part-time MBA program, and am considering purchasing a laptop. The business program building is completely wireless. The school's website states the following:

IEEE 802.11a is the preferred wireless networking standard. 802.11b will be available, where necessary.

Am I going to have a problem if I decide to go with a mac? I am considering purchasing the 15" powerbook g4 with the superdrive. I just emailed their computer support people to see if they think I will have problems. Their website says that they do not support macs

Airport and Airport Extreme are only compatible with 802.11b/g, not 802.11a. If you buy a PowerBook 15" or 17", you can use a 802.11a PC Card in the CardBus slot.

[besson3c]

Originally posted by Scooterboy:
Airport and Airport Extreme are only compatible with 802.11b/g, not 802.11a. If you buy a PowerBook 15" or 17", you can use a 802.11a PC Card in the CardBus slot.

Excellent point. It is hard to say how these drivers will work within OS X, but because PC Cards are pretty common/universal, I'm sure you can sell the card on eBay if it doesn't work out well.

I'm sure you can find a card that is OS X compatible via Google.

[Scooterboy]

Originally posted by jendmb34:
I was recently accepted into a part-time MBA program, and am considering purchasing a laptop. The business program building is completely wireless. The school's website states the following:

IEEE 802.11a is the preferred wireless networking standard. 802.11b will be available, where necessary.

Am I going to have a problem if I decide to go with a mac? I am considering purchasing the 15" powerbook g4 with the superdrive. I just emailed their computer support people to see if they think I will have problems. Their website says that they do not support macs

Airport and Airport Extreme are only compatible with 802.11b/g, not 802.11a. If you buy a PowerBook 15" or 17", you can use a 802.11a PC Card in the CardBus slot.

[jendmb34]

well this sounds slightly more promising. thanks for the input. if you think of alternate ways of getting around this, please let me know.

[howiedmb41]

doesnt it say right in the message that she got that 802.11b would be available when necessary and therefore the airport would work? im asking because i go to this school and im cosidering getting an ibook. i think the main problem is with the software theyre using to secure the network, they say it will only work on windows xp.

[besson3c]

Originally posted by howiedmb41:
doesnt it say right in the message that she got that 802.11b would be available when necessary and therefore the airport would work? im asking because i go to this school and im cosidering getting an ibook. i think the main problem is with the software theyre using to secure the network, they say it will only work on windows xp.

You guys need to provide more information (or at least find these answers):

1) where on campus is wireless B available?
2) is the network secured with VPN? PPTP or IPSec? Do you have a website where this is documented?

If you can get a wireless signal, I'm sure there is a way to use the network. Each computer's MAC address might have to be registered with their DHCP server, but if you can get them to do this, I'm sure you can use the network.

[howiedmb41]

heres the link to the info on the wireless network

http://www.unit.villanova.edu/suppor...uirements.html

[besson3c]

Originally posted by howiedmb41:
heres the link to the info on the wireless network

http://www.unit.villanova.edu/suppor...uirements.html

So it's an 802.1X network, and Panther supports this form of encrypted network. I would think that it would work, although the site is very particular that "MACs" are not supported.

[howiedmb41]

yeah they made a point to tell me that only xp would work

[Hi I'm Ben]

I like Windows XP.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by howiedmb41:
yeah they made a point to tell me that only xp would work

In the worst case, if their application somehow truly is OS-dependent, why not just use Virtual PC 6.1 - With Windows XP Professional?

Whoever wrote their Wireless Support @ Villanova Web page apparently couldn't tell the difference between hardware and software. You can run Windows XP on a Mac (except for G5's or very old/underpowered Macs).

--DekuDekuplex

[forcelite]

95% chance you WILL be able to connect.

The network is not A, cause that was a very limited standard.

It is most likely b, cause that was, and still is the most widely used wireless standard.

The Mac can connect to almost every wireless network.

I bet the reason that they stress no mac is cause they dont want to take the time or resources to help people out with configuring macs to the network.

Macs defiantly are easier to set up with neworks, but Wireless can be tricky on any platform.

So long story short, 95% sure you will be able to use you mac on the network.

Id bet lunch on it

[aktive]

802.11b is just the default standard for wireless network. Your Airport or AE card will support this and should work fine.

By the looks of the support page you posted, they want to use Zero Wireless Configuration in WinXP to set up all the client machines. Therefore, they don't tell you the network SSID (it name) or the password. Just walk around campus until your airport menu detects a network and try and join it. The only problem that I see stopping you is it seems that you University use some sort of custom secure client (i.e. not standard WEP) and the only client they offer is a WIN32 version, so unless you can get someone in the know how to get around it, this might be your stumbling block.

I'm sure mac's will be able to work on the wireless network somehow, I'm sure some of the design professors have macs and want to use the wireless network. The techs probabally just can't be bothered holding the mac users hands to get it to work.

Keep trying, I'm sure you'll get where you want eventually.

[besson3c]

Originally posted by Hi I'm Ben:
I like Windows XP.

I like carrots.

What was the point of this again? Oh yeah, carrots...

[besson3c]

Originally posted by aktive:
802.11b is just the default standard for wireless network. Your Airport or AE card will support this and should work fine.

By the looks of the support page you posted, they want to use Zero Wireless Configuration in WinXP to set up all the client machines. Therefore, they don't tell you the network SSID (it name) or the password. Just walk around campus until your airport menu detects a network and try and join it. The only problem that I see stopping you is it seems that you University use some sort of custom secure client (i.e. not standard WEP) and the only client they offer is a WIN32 version, so unless you can get someone in the know how to get around it, this might be your stumbling block.

I'm sure mac's will be able to work on the wireless network somehow, I'm sure some of the design professors have macs and want to use the wireless network. The techs probabally just can't be bothered holding the mac users hands to get it to work.

Keep trying, I'm sure you'll get where you want eventually.

The page had info about 802.1x stuff. My bet is that he'll be able to pick up a signal like you said, but will not be able to leave the network until he authenticates somewhere.

[sonofcolin]

Originally posted by besson3c:
The page had info about 802.1x stuff. My bet is that he'll be able to pick up a signal like you said, but will not be able to leave the network until he authenticates somewhere.

Download a copy of Kismac
http://www.binaervarianz.de/projekte...mieren/kismac/

This may shed some more light on what is going on with the network.

The other suggestion to get a WinXP user to share their connection is a good interim solution.

[daftpig]

Originally posted by besson3c:

Most Universities are about teaching concepts and critical thinking, so that students don't need to just memorize a bunch of steps and can begin to understand the sum of the parts. In an environment like this, the best tools for the job need to be used, and in many cases these are Macs.

Not when your uni is one that gets to install XP Pro even before it is officially released in the country...

Or when your uni invites Ballmer over for a talk on cutting edge digital media technologies.

The uni where I'm studying, was a year late in prepping the Cisco VPN client for Macs. It only soon got out when a fed-up me downloaded a client I found from another uni's site, notified their IT admin and Cc-ed the email to the President of the Uni, who later fwded it to the overall IT I/C (a prof) for the uni.

Being a pest works sometimes.

[pcwizard]

Been a mac and pc administrator for some years now and believe the pc is a much more durable device.
I find that macs have far more complicated hardware issue's than the pc's here, and consequently need to sent to back to apple, where the pc's are allot more easier to fix and restore, due to the millions of companies developing one particulr hardware component.
I'm totally against the consulsion, that cos something looks good, it will perform better.
This generally shows the intelleigence of mac user's who do most of this ill natured complaining between mac and pc's.
Most mac user's haven't got a clue about pc's and how vast and dynamic this environment is.
Bought a mac a few years back and yes, within a couple of months the motherboard had blown - back to apple it went.
Now it's in the bin.
Maybe instead of making a machine that looks like a faggots toy, they should release something more durable?

At least IBM are making the chips now - thankgod.

R ;-)

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by pcwizard:
Been a mac and pc administrator for some years now and believe the pc is a much more durable device.
I find that macs have far more complicated hardware issue's than the pc's here, and consequently need to sent to back to apple, where the pc's are allot more easier to fix and restore, due to the millions of companies developing one particulr hardware component.
I'm totally against the consulsion, that cos something looks good, it will perform better.
This generally shows the intelleigence of mac user's who do most of this ill natured complaining between mac and pc's.
Most mac user's haven't got a clue about pc's and how vast and dynamic this environment is.
Bought a mac a few years back and yes, within a couple of months the motherboard had blown - back to apple it went.
Now it's in the bin.
Maybe instead of making a machine that looks like a faggots toy, they should release something more durable?

At least IBM are making the chips now - thankgod.

R ;-)

wow, check out that illiteracy in action.

-r.

[pcwizard]

****!

[besson3c]

Originally posted by pcwizard:
Been a mac and pc administrator for some years now and believe the pc is a much more durable device.
I find that macs have far more complicated hardware issue's than the pc's here, and consequently need to sent to back to apple, where the pc's are allot more easier to fix and restore, due to the millions of companies developing one particulr hardware component.
I'm totally against the consulsion, that cos something looks good, it will perform better.
This generally shows the intelleigence of mac user's who do most of this ill natured complaining between mac and pc's.
Most mac user's haven't got a clue about pc's and how vast and dynamic this environment is.
Bought a mac a few years back and yes, within a couple of months the motherboard had blown - back to apple it went.
Now it's in the bin.
Maybe instead of making a machine that looks like a faggots toy, they should release something more durable?

At least IBM are making the chips now - thankgod.

R ;-)

I would rather have Apple worry about the engineering of my machiine than you. I'll take a manufacturer warranty, thank you.

How old are you? 15?

[pcwizard]

Originally posted by besson3c:
I would rather have Apple worry about the engineering of my machiine than you. I'll take a manufacturer warranty, thank you.

How old are you? 15?

Got for it buddy!
I don't give a damm what you do with your crappy purchase or the warranty for that matter.

You must the one that�s fifteen, I'm not using a OS designed for idiots - Prat!

[besson3c]

Originally posted by pcwizard:
Got for it buddy!
I don't give a damm what you do with your crappy purchase or the warranty for that matter.

You must the one that�s fifteen, I'm not using a OS designed for idiots - Prat!

And you are here talking to us idiots because.... ?

[nagromme]

Compare the cost of a bunch of $749 eMacs to a bunch of free Dells. Include cost of support, and length of usable life. Then factor in what people will be most productive using.

Accepting "free" Dells may not be the savings it seems!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by rlane:
WWhat the "F" were we thinking?

You were probably thinking dollars, not sense.

[MilkmanDan]

My small liberal arts college of only 2,000 people has wireless over most of campus. Oddly enough most of the IT people here are Mac users by choice, though there is a general push from the top to move to windows. Also, the only people I ever see who use wireless are all Mac people. So darn weird. My only wish is that we'd move away from 9.2 on all of our brand new emacs.... and put 10.3 on them. hell, we even have an xServe. The humanity. Thank goodness I started up a MUG again.

http://www.SeeNoEvil.org