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AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 02:49 PM

madhu, there's a couple of good reasons that I'd pick a PB over a PC laptop. First off, the operating system. OS X is so much nicer than WinXP. It's so much easier to operate, maintain, and also, you don't have to worry over viruses infecting your machine every week like WinXP users have to worry over. If you can obtain the software you need (Office v.X is 100% cross-compatible with the WinXP version of Office), the software tends to be much more user-friendly and feature an easier interface on Mac.

Then there's the size, weight, and battery life. The PB's are so much thinner & lighter than WinXP laptops, which means a lot when toting/traveling your machine. Plus, the battery life on Apple laptops are traditionally much longer than the Windows laptops...however, the new Centrino based laptops have great battery life, but their batteries are insanely expensive. Put simply, more battery life means you can work longer away from a power outlet.

The PB also has great built-in wireless...it connects to any network instantly WITHOUT CONFIGURATION with can't easily be said for WinXP machines.

Also, hardly ANY WinXP laptop has DVI-out, built-in Bluetooth, and such a tight integration between hardware and software.

Anyways, if you have specific Q's I can try my best to answer.

CPU · Oct 2, 2003, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
Then there's the size, weight, and battery life. The PB's are so much thinner & lighter than WinXP laptops, which means a lot when toting/traveling your machine. Plus, the battery life on Apple laptops are traditionally much longer than the Windows laptops...however, the new Centrino based laptops have great battery life, but their batteries are insanely expensive. Put simply, more battery life means you can work longer away from a power outlet.

The PB also has great built-in wireless...it connects to any network instantly WITHOUT CONFIGURATION with can't easily be said for WinXP machines.

Also, hardly ANY WinXP laptop has DVI-out, built-in Bluetooth, and such a tight integration between hardware and software.

Anyways, if you have specific Q's I can try my best to answer.

madhu,
I just bought a pc laptop in July, so i can give some info.

I bought a Compaq X1000 (1.4Ghz Pentium-M, 256Mb, 60Gb 5400RPM, Combo, ati 9200) for $1300 after rebates. It is an excellent machine, only 6.5 lbs and 1.3" thick (Not bad for a pc). I get about 4hrs of battery life. I didn't get the integrated bluetooth or wireless options, so i can't comment on those.

I don't mean to pursued you to get this over a pb, just want to make sure you have as much info as possible before making your decision. If you have any other questions about why I chose this laptop over the competition, feel free to ask.

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 03:22 PM

CPU, how kind of you to make your first post ever on MacNN as a comment swaying on to the PC World...considering he *works for Dell*, I'm sure he's had his feel for PC's. Even in my statements, I clearly said the laptops w/ the Centrino based technology got respectable battery life, but buying a notebook is about more than just battery life, and Apple's 12" PB can come extremely close to matching that 4 hours, and an extra battery won't cost you your first born.

CPU · Oct 2, 2003, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
CPU, how kind of you to make your first post ever on MacNN as a comment swaying on to the PC World...considering he *works for Dell*, I'm sure he's had his feel for PC's. Even in my statements, I clearly said the laptops w/ the Centrino based technology got respectable battery life, but buying a notebook is about more than just battery life, and Apple's 12" PB can come extremely close to matching that 4 hours, and an extra battery won't cost you your first born.

I wasn't trying to sway him, or anyone else for that matter. He wanted info on the differences between mac and pc notebooks. Since noone else who owned a pentium-m notebook provided any data, i figured i would. I agree buying a notebook is about more than battery life, if my earlier post seemed to indicate otherwise, i apologize. You seem to mistake me for a pc troll, i assure you that i am not posting to cause trouble. If you don't like/want my information feel free to ignore it. I hope that it will be useful to somone else.

-fyi- A new battery for my X1000 costs $129.99

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 03:43 PM

Hey, thanks a bunch guys.....that was good info...however, yes, since I have had my hands on all possible pc's...and the latest I am working on is a Centrina based 1.4 Mhz, with 256 DDR and 40 GB with Conbo, and a 14.1"...it does a good deal, and it weighs around 2 Kg...(sorry guys...not pounds here) It gives me around 3.5 hours of heavy usage standard....

But, my concern was about Mac in total. I have never used mac much. I was concerned about the compatibility with other networks and applications...I am cmopletely fascinated by the Powerbook. I had a sales person who came over for a demo...wow, man its neat...
I am obsessed...
But since there is Virtual PC, there should not be any issues with windows applications right? I will be using a DSL connectivity at home for the internet and would be networking with my existing PC...

Assassyn, could you please provide me with a review of the PB 12" Al Combo please???
You could also send it to my mailbox...
just wanted to ask you...where did you learn all this...I want to become a poweruser...I am sure with the help from MacNN that should not takemuch time...

CPU · Oct 2, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by madhu:
But, my concern was about Mac in total. I have never used mac much. I was concerned about the compatibility with other networks and applications...I am cmopletely fascinated by the Powerbook. I had a sales person who came over for a demo...wow, man its neat...
I am obsessed...
But since there is Virtual PC, there should not be any issues with windows applications right? I will be using a DSL connectivity at home for the internet and would be networking with my existing PC...

We have a lot of macs and pcs networked together where i work and we haven't run into a problem yet. The only issue that i can think of is that currently macs are unable to write to NTFS formatted drives. I think that they can still read them. I also think that panther is going to allow better compatibility.

VPC should handle most applications without much problem. I hear installing win2000 and maxing your ram will yield the best results.

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 03:53 PM

Understood CPU, thanks.

madhu, the amazing ease of networking w/ Macs in general (and the PBs) is incredible. It'll recognize any Wireless network you come into range with, and you can start surfing instantly. Also, with WinXP you have to tell the computer if you're using the ethernet jack or a Wireless card...not w/ a Mac. It auto-detects whether a cord is in the ethernet jack, and if not, if there's a wireless signal in range. And it auto-switches between cable/wireless if you need to plug in to make some huge file transfers without any hangups...WinXP makes a mess of this.

You'll have no issues at all networking into your DSL connection, and escp. no problems getting files from your PC onto your Mac. Just get them on the same network at home, hit Cmd+K on the Mac, mount your PC's hard drive onto your Mac's desktop, and you have instant drag & drop access to all your PC's files.

And a review? Just read the first post of mine here, as well as all my other posts afterwards answering questions...that should cover just about every aspect of it. If you have any other unanswered specific Q's, just ask.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 03:54 PM

I understand CPU, thanks for that info too...I know that it is important to know from people using different platforms...and their coments and reviews...i really appreciate it...
it is just natural that the Mac users appreciate Maac more than windows...thats all...I sm sure you understand right? Thanks again buddy....

CPU · Oct 2, 2003, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by madhu:
I understand CPU, thanks for that info too...I know that it is important to know from people using different platforms...and their coments and reviews...i really appreciate it...
it is just natural that the Mac users appreciate Maac more than windows...thats all...I sm sure you understand right? Thanks again buddy....

no problem, i definately advocate using the platform that suites you best. I actually really like the mac platform and i am also considering buying a 12" pb. I really like the 15" Ti 400 that we have in the office.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 04:07 PM

Awesome...that is neat...but what about your comments of Virtual PC???
Does is need more Mem to work..or will the stand 256 DDr do fine???
Over here, the Ram costs a Bomb...they nearly charge 5K for a 256MB ...(that would be approx $110)...
And a friend of mine said that he would provide me with all the possible softwares necessary....and these guys have promised me a 1 year complete support and warranty on the powerbook. Good eh? How about the general worries like warping and the white dots on the screen??? and what would you estimate the battery run-time to be?? approx 4-5 hours?
I also would be picking up a mobile charger (Car-Charger) and a spare adaptor, one for office and one for home...
Is the feet a major concern??? I decided to go for a leather case rather than a nylon bag...but I've asked my pop to get a Backpack from Singapore when coming down...

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 04:14 PM

Hey...is it something like we are not supposed to disclose our Ph#'s or email id's out here..??/ because I'l love to call you guys sometime to say hi and thanks which would be more than a few times...

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 04:16 PM

You honestly need more than 256MB RAM to run VirtualPC smoothly. I'd recommend 768MB at least. It'll run, but it's gonna be very slow.

Battery life can range between 2:15-4 hours, depending on how hard you're using it and if you're keeping the brightness all the way max or all the way dim.

The feet aren't a terribly big deal, just remember not to "slide" your PB across any desks to keep from them coming off. And nice pickup on the leather case, that should do you just fine.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the info again brother..you rock...
so i'll have to dig in for more dough to pick upaddon memory....I did read a lot of reviews about the warping and the white dots...what about those...I am waiting for a raise and would then be confirming on my order for my PB. They say it would take approx 2 weeks to get it..they are importing it from Singapore...a 12" PB Costs nearly $2200...I am sure you would get it a lot less expensive out there rigth?

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 04:27 PM

$2,200USD? Yeah, it's LOTS cheaper here...they're about $1,600USD.

As for the warping/white spots...the white spots have only been found lots on the "15"PBs, not 12" PBs, and the warping is very minor...many don't have the problem, a few people do, but it's easy to fix. Just place a thing sheet or object under the high corner to even it out on a flat surface...I wouldn't worry about it though.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 04:32 PM

There is something else I wanted to check with you....about the OS. They said that it would come with a pre-installed OSX Jaguar..not sure which version....but however, when I enquired about Panther..they said that they could provide me with a copy...but they do not garuntee smooth functioning. What do you suggest...Panther or Jaguar..and why?? I duno anything on this subject...please help me....I might be bothering you very often with my questions and queries...*sorry* :-(

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 04:35 PM

No problem...currently, the most recent Mac OS out here is "Jaguar", and it'll come with 10.2.7.

Panther is what WILL be the most recent Mac OS when it's released by the end of this year (no set released date yet, just before 2004). So for now, use Jaguar, and when Panther comes out, it's up to you if you want to upgrade. However, if you do, you can keep Jaguar installed and install Panther on a seperate partition if you'd like. I'd say use Jaguar now, as it's the latest, and buy Panther when it comes out to upgrade.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 04:57 PM

Cool...so you say that Jaguar is a good bet...well, then I am game for it...and, would there be a free upgarade for people who purchase a PB now or should we buy Panther seperately???
I got an excellent deal from E-Bay for a PB and a 23" Display....but there would heavy Import Duty levied on it when I get it down to India....doesn't that suck....sheesh...this is one main reason I love the US...it was awesome when I was there...and I really did not bother to pick it when I was in CA....now I am cursing myself for it.

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 05:00 PM

Yep, stick w/ Jaguar for now, which is what will come installed on it. Sadly, you'll hafta pay to upgrade, probably around $100USD.

And be very careful about buying off eBay, many of those "great deals" are scams stealing your cash. Anything that looks too good to be true, probably is on eBay.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 05:05 PM

You must be kiding...really??? oh..i thought that was an awesome deal...
infact, i did pick up a few things of there when I was in California....those were fine...maybe I was lucky....I am trying for the best deal for a iPod....that is worth it right???Wanna connect it to my amplifier and bang the neighbours walls.....*smile*

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 05:08 PM

Also, what is this thing about Rev A and Rev B Powerbooks???
I am a novice...please..

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 05:11 PM

Just make sure you contact the seller before buying to make sure it's safe.

And "Rev. A" means the first 12" PB, clocked at 867Mhz, while Rev. B stands for the newest 12" PBs, clocked at 1Ghz.

LfGrdMike · Oct 2, 2003, 05:17 PM

eh not really AssassyN

Their was more to the upgrade then just the processor. All that rev a and b mean is that a was the first book, and b was the second book released with new features, and updates, and perhaps some bug fixes.

Basicall if you were to buy a new 12 now you would get a revision B. Next time they are updated it will be C.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 05:21 PM

oh...ok..will remember that....Hey, I have a friend of mine doing her MS out there in US, if could provide me with some places where we could get some good deal on buying an iPod, i'll give her the info and check out on the best place..Thanks giving is coming up right..?? maybe we can get a good deal then...but then, can she go for a educational discount? and if yes, how do we go about it?
I am so sorry for bothering you so much.

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 05:27 PM

LfGrdMike, what I said is the easiest way to tell them apart, he didn't ask what diff. features were on them.

And to get the EDU discount you present a Student/Teacher ID when purchasing.

madhu · Oct 2, 2003, 05:39 PM

Thanks a tonn for all the info buddy....i'll take leave now..its around 3:15 in the morning..time to go home and hit sack...thanks a million again buddy....i'll be back with more questions to trouble...*smile* haev a great day to all...adios amigos....

legacyb4 · Oct 2, 2003, 06:15 PM

If you really want to work safely in OS X, demote yourself to a normal user account and create an admin account that is used exclusively for installing software or accessing parts of your system (pref changes, etc.) that require an admin account (essentially the equivalent of User in Windows 2000/XP).

You will effectively be "locked" out of accidentally moving any of the default system stuff but are able to do manage your computer if necessary.

I'm helping a pair of less computer technical friends who really just want to use their Macs for work from time to time and locking them down in this fashion has saved me a lot of headaches as you don't have to worry about critical system files being mucked around with by accident.

For those of you who remember, an OS 9 system could get pretty messed up by folks moving stuff around when aliases should have been used or the all too familiar "I saved it, but I don't know where it went..." routine.

Cheers.

Originally posted by LfGrdMike:
Dont go in the "system" folder though. Leave that be. Also be careful in the Library folders if you dont know what yoru doing you could mess up your apps or X. Its pretty easy once you understand what the library folders do, and how X works but until then new users should not touch these areas. Unless of course someone tells you too who knows what they are doing.

legacyb4 · Oct 2, 2003, 06:18 PM

Really? I love using partitions as it makes using Carbon Copy Cloner a breeze backing up specific sets of data without having to pick through (think /Volumes/Music, etc.).

Another reason I like using a partition is for music; it effectively throws up a hard limit for the amount of music collecting on my computer and I don't have to wonder where all my HD space went...

Cheers.

Originally posted by iomatic:
Down with partitions! No partitions! ack...I HATE partitions; talk about inconvenience.

US$.02

TheIceMan · Oct 2, 2003, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
[B]kaibutsu3, I forgot to mention, I did side-by-side screen comparisons, and at max brightness on both, I prefer the Rev. B 12" PBs screen. The Rev. A had a wonderful screen that I never had any issues with at all, but the new Rev. B just seems to be crisper and clearer...I can read everything on screen perfectly fine, and there's no ghosting at all when gaming, everything's perfectly fluid. Any rumors you've heard of a lackluster screen just aren't true about this Rev. B machine, it's screen is wonderful! And by the way, welcome the MacNN Forums!

AssassyN: From this reply was there a problem with "ghosting" on the Rev.A 12"? I stopped by the Apple Store here in Dallas and tried out the Rev. A 12" PB (they didn't have the Rev.B to show). All 3 of the 12" Rev. A PB I tried had some "glazed" ghosting" thing on the screen. It was hard to read the text. Was this what you were talking about for Rev. A, which has been corrected under Rev. B? Thanks.

Logic · Oct 2, 2003, 08:11 PM

Thanks AssassyN!

I'm waiting for my 12" right now. They say it won't arrive until after 3 weeks though

I will get a basestation and airport extreme card with it, and I hope we will be able to buy an airport card for our iMac, more RAM and hopefully a 20GB iPod as well.

Just three questions.

I know everyone says you should get more RAM, so I was wondering about what kind of RAM I should buy. All this DDR, SDRAM etc confuses me. What should I buy?

Then I was wondering about how I would set this up. I will have an iMac, 12" PB, printer, firewire HD and the internet(through ethernet if that helps) and hopefully an iPod as well that I'll need to connect together somehow. What will be the best way to do it?

Then I was wondering about all the music I have on my iMac. Will the PB be able to access it without a problem or will I have to copy all the music over to the PB as well? That is of course when I'm home.

Thanks

ps. I started with one question and ended up with three

mini-pbook · Oct 2, 2003, 08:25 PM

I currently have a Rev A 12"pb, and it has been the best computer I've ever owned. It sounds like all of the little things that were wrong with rev A seem to be fixed. I bought mine when it first came out, so it was 2 grand minus education discount. I'm still happy with everything, and my only question to anyone with the new powerbooks is this: how well does MS Word run? Everything I've thrown at this thing it has run beatifully, from Safari to light Photoshop work, but Word is pretty slow in all regards, whether it's scrolling or saving a document. I'd like to know if it's just a problem with Microsoft or a problem with my pb (I'm guessing it's MS).
P.S. I ran Xbench after a reboot, and had a score of 74.41 with 640mb ram. This compares to AssassyN's score of 85.43.

gator · 11:05 PM

Originally posted by Logic:

I know everyone says you should get more RAM, so I was wondering about what kind of RAM I should buy. All this DDR, SDRAM etc confuses me. What should I buy?

The 12" PB takes PC2100 DDR sodimms.. check dealram for price listings (tab links at top are for choosing different ram amounts):
http://dealram.com/prices/systems/23074/512MB.html

Then I was wondering about how I would set this up. I will have an iMac, 12" PB, printer, firewire HD and the internet(through ethernet if that helps) and hopefully an iPod as well that I'll need to connect together somehow. What will be the best way to do it?

I'd guess ethernet-->AE basestation, iMac with printer and firewire HD--> AE basestation. Enable File Sharing and Printer sharing in your system prefs on the iMac. Then, with your AE equipped 12" PB, find the iMac via Finder--> Connect to Server, and Printer through the Print Center somehow.

Then I was wondering about all the music I have on my iMac. Will the PB be able to access it without a problem or will I have to copy all the music over to the PB as well? That is of course when I'm home.

With iTunes 4, you should be able to access it if you turn on the sharing feature of iTunes on your iMac (Preferences --> Sharing --> Enable sharing)... then your PB should be able to connect to it.. it used to be a connect to server menu option, but I'm guessing that 4.0.1 just automatically searches on the same local network now for shared libraries if you have that option checked in the preferences.

nagromme · Oct 2, 2003, 10:01 PM

Thanks for the review! Anyone use UT2k3 on the new 12"?

I'm in the two-extremes situation myelf: get a 12" or a 17"?

AssassyN · Oct 2, 2003, 10:21 PM

TheIceMan, I never really gamed on the Rev. A, so I dunno if it had "ghosting" issues, all I know if the new Rev. B has no ghosting at all, and keeps up w/ the fast gaming action w/ no problem at all.

gator, thanks for answering that! And I must mention I recommend www.18004memory.com for the RAM. Any DDR266 or PC2100 SODIMM will do.

nagromme, no idea on UT2K3, sorry!

Welp, I just got back from Circuit City and got an awesome deal! Picked up the WarCraft III battle chest w/ the game itself and the "Frozen Throne" expansion pack, plus both strat. guides for $39! So I'm about to install & play that, cheers!

LfGrdMike · Oct 2, 2003, 10:46 PM

Sorry, AssassyN, its been a long day. I understand why you said that now duh lol.

LOTS of homework tis thee art of college. I just got to remember this is going to all pay off hehe. All those macs [shaking head rapidly]

gator · Oct 2, 2003, 11:07 PM

Assassyn... quick question that you might have the answer to... how's the battery life with energy saver on the "Longest life" settings or whatever it's called? I'll find out tomorrow anyways since my 12" PB should be delivered by then, but it'd still be nice to know ahead of time

AssassyN · Oct 3, 2003, 02:29 AM

gator, I can get between 3-4 hours on "Power Saving" mode, depending on brightness and how hard I'm using the machine...quite impressive.

Fellow2000 · Oct 3, 2003, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by gator:
Assassyn... quick question that you might have the answer to... how's the battery life with energy saver on the "Longest life" settings or whatever it's called? I'll find out tomorrow anyways since my 12" PB should be delivered by then, but it'd still be nice to know ahead of time

Gator, good to see you here! Never around neowin anymore. Congrats on your purchase.

Shaddim · Oct 6, 2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by AssassyN:
gator, I can get between 3-4 hours on "Power Saving" mode, depending on brightness and how hard I'm using the machine...quite impressive.

Ditto what AssassyN said. I get about 3-4 hrs on my PB on battery, depending on disc useage etc.

legacyb4 · Oct 6, 2003, 11:15 PM

Just quick note that I did my first DVD-R burn successfully using Toast 5.2 (Superdrive firmware UJ-816) at 2x (max speed selectable in Toast) using an Apple brand DVD-R that was lying around the office.

Took a little over 25 minutes for about 4.4GB of data.

Cheers.

PeterKG · Oct 11, 2003, 11:08 PM

Hey AssassyN,

I have been away from home and I don't know how I missed your great news about replacing your Rev. A with a Rev. B. I am extremely happy for you and am really impressed with this tread and all the time you have taken to respond to questions and comments. You truly make this forum great and as I told you, were a big influence in my trading up to the new 15" PB. Any Apple store would be blessed to have you behind the Genius Bar.

By the way I sold my Cube and got $680, and my 17" Apple LCD went for $475. So now I have a clean set up with just my PB.

Okay buddy, now I am waiting for the next product intro to see what you do!

AssassyN · Oct 11, 2003, 11:50 PM

Wow, thanks a bunch PeterKG! I truly love working w/ Macs and being a part of this community...the people here influenced me to get my first Mac, and since then, it's became a lifestyle. Thanks again bro, and best wishes!

fraeone · Oct 12, 2003, 06:36 PM

AssassyN-

I have to echo everybody else in thanking you for your comprehensive experiences between the two revisions. I am typing this on my first laptop, a bulky bargain-priced Dell--which has treated me fine, but it has become clear that form factor and build quality mean so much in the world of laptops.

This creaky, seven pound plastic monster is getting the ebay treatment, and a 12" PB will soon take its place--at least partly because of your great review.

Thanks again.

fraeone

AssassyN · Oct 13, 2003, 10:04 AM

fraeone, that's outstanding! Yeah, I just can't hardly even bear to hold a typical bulky Windows laptop after owning an Apple...congrats on making up your mind, you'll LOVE the PB!