[PJStyles]

I have to say that I've been thinking non-stop over the past few weeks about seriously moving over to the Mac platform. I've been reading up on Apple news regularly, been finding myself visiting a lot of different Apple/Mac discussion forums and reading up a lot on Mac OS X and I have to say that the Mac community and the Mac OS X is just absolutely first class.

So what are the things that are making me consider switching over? Easy :

a) Awesome Mac Community
b) Mac OS X
c) Style & Style & Style
d) Vision

I have to say... I have never ever seen a more stunning OS than Mac OS X. Of all the quicktime movies I've seen, screenshots, reviews and other endless documents I have to say I'm just flat out impressed. I also read some of the complaints a few of you make and I just sit back and laugh because you have no idea how good you have it!

I have used Win95/98/ME/NT/2K and have even seen Windows XP in action and they are all the same crap with a slight variation on the Kernel and the fact that XP is a lame attempt to duplicate the Mac OS X.

So that bodes the question... why haven't I moved over to the Mac yet?

a) Software Support
b) Hardware Pricing

Those are the only two I can think of right now. I use Cold Fusion Studio for my web development projects and just love it! It has really come in handy and not sure if there's an alternative on the Mac Platform. Also, I love games and there seems to be a serious lack of games... Although nVidia has committed their geforce3 video card for the mac platform, that doesn't mean game developers will follow so I do have my concerns.

The other problematic point is prices. Macs are so damn expensive. Yes, I'm well aware of the MHZ comparison and that it's not accurate to compare MHZ speeds from Intel chips to the PPC. That's not my point. The point is pricing in general for Mac hardware is quite inflated.

So I guess what I was hoping for was to get major feedback from all the people that have recently converted from PC's to the Macs... tell me what made you switch over, how you dealt with the lack of game support, and whether you still use your old PC etc etc...

I'd also be interested to hear some of the life-long mac users state their opinions on the future... one thing I'm certain of is I'm completely fed up with MS stealing everyone else's work and then screwing it up. I mean come on... LUNA.. what the heck is that!

Marco

P.S - Looking forward to your responses.

[iCartman]

Do you require additonal input for all your decisions in life? If you need someone to convinve you to use a Mac, then perhaps buying a Macintosh isn't going to do you any good.

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respect mah athoritah!

[mindwaves]

Web development - Webobjects in full Java

Pricing- macs are expensive, but they are more reliable and better.
they cost more because they cost more to produce. everything from a colored box (instead of a brown carboard one), superior plastic wrapping, and the apple fit and finish, is going to cost more. i know that I am happy to pay a little more to get the best.

games- roge spear, oni, bugdom (only oni is carbonized so far)

[ctt1wbw]

I don't think Macs are more expensive at all. Put a Mac and a Dell, for instance, side by side, and the Mac will have far more features (Firewire, USB ports, etc etc) than the Dell, or any other computer. There are plenty of serious comparisons out there regarding prices of Macs versus others, and they all say the same thing. Macs are better deals.

As far as the games go, buy a Playstation 2. That is what they are made for. Macs are made for work, although I do have Cribbage and Spades on my Powerbook. I am addicted to these card games...

I would buy a Mac before anything. I have been using them all my life and I am on my third one. I feel they are far superior to anything out there, except maybe a Silicon Graphics workstation...

Buy one and get OS X and you won't regret it at all. You will love it.

I am almost 16 and about 3 months ago I had the privlage of telling my parents which computer to buy. Let me tell you i definetly made the right choice. i am now a mac finatic. I love the mac community and boards. All the macs shortcomings are true and hopefully being dealt with by apple, but what platform doesn't. i am totally exciteed about the possibilities of Mac Os X even though I will not be and immediate switcher for my parents sake. When i had to choose i too was disappointed in the lack of games in the mac community because at my age thats what you do. I have found that even though all the games aren't ported usually the really good ones are. Now they are significantly later than the pc counterparts but its worth the wait. i have Virtual PC from Connectix and the faster the G4s get the better it runs. i have found old games work great on it. So that is my answer to the great games that never come out for mac. Any other specific questions i will be happy to answer. I am sure the mac community will be happy to have you : )

[gorgonzola]

While the lowest price of Macs is higher than PC's, but if you do a BTO thing at Apple Store then you'll see the price is actually very close to PC's of comparable power.

I would strongly suggest buying in July after MWNY.

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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[Spliff]

Don't bother trying to rationalize purchasing a Mac. Just close your eyes and leap. Trust me, you won't be disappointed if you buy a Mac. Any OS and any piece of hardware will have things you don't like about it. However, the Mac OS is so much fun to use and owning a Mac is like owning a BMW. You can't stop yourself from admiring it and polishing it.

Top end PCs are like Corvettes or Mustangs. They're fast, cheaper than BMWs, but they're unreliable and they rattle a lot.

[PJStyles]

What do you anticipate happening in July? Also is IBM now producing PPC chips in volume again to make up for Motorolla's short comings?

Marco

[nigeljedi]

Hey, if you want people to advocate Macs to you, you're in the right place! Most of us here wouldn't use anything else.
Price is always an issue...but so is quality. If you want quality, buy a Mac; sure, there are less choices in the Mac world than in the Wintel world, but life always presents sacrifice situations. So, it stands to reason that you won't find as competitive of prices. What you will find, however, is that a lot of the headaches you've probably been used to using Windows will be alleviated.
Hardware concerns: well, with the intro of DVD burners here recently, there are not many hardware items we Mac users can't have. You'll find a great selection from many on and offline sources.
Software: well, you won't find Microsoft golf for a Mac, but do you really need it? My point is this: more and more software is being ported to Macs...some is dual platform, some is exclusively Mac.
That help any? I hope so. You won't find a happier computer user than a Mac user.


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FireMac
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -Yoda

I am almost 16 and about 3 months ago I had the privlage of telling my parents which computer to buy. Let me tell you i definetly made the right choice. i am now a mac finatic. I love the mac community and boards. All the macs shortcomings are true and hopefully being dealt with by apple, but what platform doesn't. i am totally exciteed about the possibilities of Mac Os X even though I will not be and immediate switcher for my parents sake. When i had to choose i too was disappointed in the lack of games in the mac community because at my age thats what you do. I have found that even though all the games aren't ported usually the really good ones are. Now they are significantly later than the pc counterparts but its worth the wait. i have Virtual PC from Connectix and the faster the G4s get the better it runs. i have found old games work great on it. So that is my answer to the great games that never come out for mac. Any other specific questions i will be happy to answer. I am sure the mac community will be happy to have you : )

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by PJStyles:
What do you anticipate happening in July? Also is IBM now producing PPC chips in volume again to make up for Motorolla's short comings?

Marco

I anticipate significant updates to Mac OS X since many things will be left out of Beta. They'll have something that will have bug fixes, more features, etc. Also Mac OS X will come preloaded, and I also anticipate updates to half the hardware line (Cube, iMac, iBook). Most of the apps will be released then as well.

If he's upgrading just for OS X, then July is definitely a better time to upgrade.

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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

I'm a non-Mac guy that has switched as much as possible. What made me switch was the "vision" you spoke of (evident from hardware and software design), interesting technology (Cocoa) and a weariness of Windows problems. Un*x is my preferred platform, but I develop on Windows as well. I don't mind Windows at all, I just prefer un*x platforms.

I know what a lot of Mac folk will tell you, but it is more expensive. Substantially, in some cases. If you're careful, you can get a Mac in almost the same ball park, price-wise, if you do the research and add any extras later (RAM, HD, etc.).

I'm not a big gamer, but I like to play. Most of the games that I 'm interested in (except for a few like EverQuest) have been ported, eventually, to the Mac.

Application wise, the biggest problem that I've run into so far is Visio, Rational Rose and Dope Wars (I haven't really checked much for Mac client though). Visio and the Rational Suite are some of my preferred tools, but reasonable equivalents are not available, although ConceptDraw may be a viable alternative to Visio (still checking). Office 2001 is very nice and made the move MUCH easier. I actually prefer it to Office 2000, accept for the lack of an Access port.

As for Cold Fusion I don't know. I've never really worked with it.

The community is generally good, although there are a few evangelists that just take it a little too far and a little too seriously. Over all, I agree with you. The community is extraordinarily friendly and knowledgeable. In some other communities those often seem to contradict each other .

Yes, I still use my PC for a lot of stuff. Virtual PC helps, but it isn't the same at all. I'll always have a PC though. I never intended a full migration. I prefer the whole multi-platform thing, so I guess I don't count. Although, it would be nice to be able to do all my work on the Mac.

Damn, that was a lot of nothing. Sorry I couldn't help you out much.

[jblakeh1]

I think it's pretty sad the first response to this thread is as rude as it is, without justification. iCartman owes someone an apology.

PJStyles, what is it about ColdFusion that you like so much? I might be able to recommend a suitable alternative, but I need to know what features you use. There are plenty of Mac html programs, but they all have their strong points.

I was issued a PC at work recently, and up until now, I hadn't realized how un-stylish PCs actually are. In a word, Wintel is klunky! Five LED lights, and I have no idea why any of them are blinking... it took me five minutes to find the on/off switch!

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.b
http://homepage.mac.com/jblakeh1
http://www.sit3.com

there is NO alternative to Cold Fusion Studio, though Macromedia Ultradev will allow you to hook into a Cold Fusion server environment. Macromedia has just purchased Allaire so you may want to inquire with Macromedia as to their plans for Cold Fusion.

[JB72]

Originally posted by iCartman:
Do you require additonal input for all your decisions in life? If you need someone to convinve you to use a Mac, then perhaps buying a Macintosh isn't going to do you any good.

virgin.

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JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[frawgz]

I've been a PC-to-Mac convert for about 4 years now, and I haven't looked back. Your concerns are natural - I felt the same back then, too, although those were the cloning days and I had access to cheap Mac clones. However, I quickly learned that what I gained in wallet weight I lost in Apple's legendary fit and finish, attention to detail, and clean integration of hardware and software. And this was on a computer running the Mac OS. What Wintel hardware has over the Mac in terms of $$ is exactly the same, only 10 times worse. Trust me, when you use a Mac for an extended period of time and find yourself at a PC station, you'll be almost aghast at how you ever put up with Windows' horrific inelegance, bugginess, etc etc (need I say more?). In fact, I often see problems with PCs in terms of hardware failures, software failures, and whatever else you can think of failures (especially with bargain PCs - the ones that make you think Macs are expensive).

As for software, I have had to put up with a few setbacks occasionally, but none that have ever made me regret being on the Mac. The rhetorical question that is often used (and I find it very appropriate) is would you rather have 50 crappy word processors or 5 good ones? It seems to be an unfair generalization, but I find that apps on the Mac (the ones that aren't lazy ports from Windows anyway) really enhance user experience and make computing a joy. It's not going to be a chore for you to go out and find big, technical reasons why owning a Mac would be better than owning a Wintel machine, but there are thousands of little reasons that add up quickly and make your experience as a whole so much the better. For example, I have two roommates with Wintel PCs - one of them has formatted his more times than I can count due to Windows problems (once he upgraded to IE 5.5, which caused his setup to barf; why is it that the only way to reinstall Windows is to reformat?). I think every Mac user on this forum would agree with me when I say that it would be truly shocking if any installation of IE (or ANY app) ever trashed a Mac to the point of requiring a clean system install, let alone a reformat!

[JB72]

I used to surf to Macweek.com and some Copeland rumor site all the time in '95-'97 thinking it was right around the corner, and I'd go down to the local computer store to check out the Mac machines. I finally gave up. But with Jobs' hardware, and the promise of a new modern OS, I finally jumped ship in summer '99. I can't beleive I had to use windows. I would never go back. The only problem I have now is that I spend too much time with my computers. Ironic that I'm still waiting for the next OS, and still really have to wait till summer. Still, I'm absolutely sure that OS X will increase Mac market share at least two percent, and who knows how much more. I would love to see Mac OS X running on 15% of all computers. That would be amazing. Maybe five years from now.



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JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[gotterdamm]

1. PJ, I made the move from PC to Mac about three years ago and haven't looked back since. Think about taking the leap this way: with OS X, Apple is offering a user experience never seen anywhere before. They have taken the most powerful system architecure available on a PC and blended it with an interface that will change the way we interact with our computers forever. What is Microsoft offering you that they having given you before? Pay-per-view software.

2. On behalf of all other Macnn forum members I would like to apologize for iCartman. Every forum has a troll and ours has just been spotted. It's not his fault really, he just posted to the wrong forum.


[This message has been edited by gotterdamm (edited 03-03-2001).]

[JB72]

Great forum link, LOL! . I wish I would have thought of that.

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JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[Bluebomber21XX]

virgin.

Come on JB, you say it like it's a bad thing. =P

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The online resource for Rockman and Forte!
http://bluebomber.darkmazda.com/

[JB72]

Originally posted by Bluebomber21XX:
Come on JB, you say it like it's a bad thing. =P

Actually that's true. It's not a bad thing in and of itself. Not at all. But if it's frustrating someone, I think it has more to do with Gotterdamm's diagnosis.

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JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[dtriska]

Originally posted by Past Tense:
I know what a lot of Mac folk will tell you, but it is more expensive. Substantially, in some cases. If you're careful, you can get a Mac in almost the same ball park, price-wise, if you do the research and add any extras later (RAM, HD, etc.).

PJStyles, I'd like you to take a look into the future. If you do, you'll see Macs are far less expensive than PCs. What you pay for upfront saves you serious money down the road. I know this because I'm a tech and I saw my paycheck balloon by a factor of 4.5 once some Windows stations were thrown into the mix at my work. To be honest, I'd rather sacrifice the money and keep my sanity.

Regarding software support, I'm not sure if this applies to the apps you use, but some software companies offer price plans for switching platforms. Adobe comes to mind. Adobe offers a plan where, if you're switching to the Mac platform and now need a Mac version of Photoshop (for example), they offer a greatly reduced price. This reduces the app cost of switching platforms significantly.

If you can wait, I suggest you buy in July, as well. Mac OS X will be polished up and feature complete (the March 24 release is mainly for software companies to Carbonize apps, and for the "hardcore" users who "gotta have it now") and most of the hardware will be updated. Also, all of the wonderful iApps will be Carbonized by then.

I hope you join us soon and enjoy the new platform. You won't regret it.

[SnowmanX]

Why must you "switch," PJ? Why not "add," instead? I've been a PC user since early Windows 2.x and a Mac user since OS 7.6/8.0, so about 10 and 4 years, respectively. Becoming a Mac user has only enriched my life and knowledge of computers. Think of things in this light, and you'll find it easier to justify "adding" a Mac into your life.

Yes, I now prefer Macs, but Windows ain't that bad either (well, at least not Win2K). So jump aboard and enjoy the roller coaster ride that is the Mac world.

[PJStyles]

I have to say all the responses have been amazing. One of the reasons I must do a "switch" instead of "add" is financial reasons. I just don't have the capital to fork out over $3,000 CDN$ for a Mac. Even then at that price i'd be looking at a dual PPC system. Based on everything I've read and everyone I've talked to, I will definitely be making the switch - but I will be waiting until the summer time when OS X is firmly in place and when hardware prices drop off a bit.

If anyone has any other links of use for Mac newbies please let me know... I'm looking to add more Mac websites to my favorites list

Thanks again...

PJStyles

[mindwaves]

macintouch.com
macworld.com
macnn.com
maccentral.com
machome.com
apple-history.com (it maybe applemuseum.com, not quite sure... to lazy to check)

Originally posted by dtriska:
If you can wait, I suggest you buy in July, as well. Mac OS X will be polished up and feature complete (the March 24 release is mainly for software companies to Carbonize apps, and for the "hardcore" users who "gotta have it now") and most of the hardware will be updated. Also, all of the wonderful iApps will be Carbonized by then.

I hope you join us soon and enjoy the new platform. You won't regret it.

Heh...I don't think I'm a "hardcore" user, but I definitely "gotta have it now"

Everyone here has offered excellent and insightful views on the subject, so I don't have too much more to add except a few comments about price.

I work in digital imaging for a local photography studio (which means I am digital imaging/hardware and software tech. support/network admin...all for the bargain price of $8/hr...yeah, I'm getting ripped off, but I digress...). At work we have a network of Win95/98/Me/NT machines. I will speak from the experience of the one main machine that I work on. It isn't much: a PIII 500Mhz, with 32MB ATI Rage Fury Pro, 256MB CL2 PC100RAM, 20 GB HD, USB scanner, 10/100T Ethernet, and Wacom Graphire, 17" Monitor, WIn98. Total initial cost: $1800

At home I have a PowerMac G4 w/ 16MB Rage Pro, 576 MB of PC100 RAM (one stick is CL3, the rest are CL2...not too huge of a difference, but it is there...need to get it changed), 40 GB HD, USB scanner, builtin 10/100T ethernet, Wacom Graphire, optical mouse, usb hub, 17 " Monitor, very cool looking case and monitor MacOS 9.1. Total initial cost: $2600

So, initially the PC is cheaper. However, I have put in almost $4000 of overtime at work trying to get that machine to keep running so I can get my work done(that is a rough estimate, but it is more likely underkill than overkill). It crashes an average of 3 times a day. The first crash is when I start it up in the morning, log on to the network, and then when Win98 is fully booted, I move the mouse. System freeze. Other common crashes are due to the CD player software, and running more than 2 peices of software at a time (Yes, I know not everyone has this kind of PC experience, but this is my anecdotal evidence for the day). Not to mention that this machine is sllllloooooowwwwww.

Now, I don't often do a lot of profitable work at home on my Mac. Sometimes I bring work home though. Also, there are other things that I do, so I can kind of compare my productivity. I would estimate that on an equivalent scale, I have spent/lost maybe $600 in productivity on my mac. The main cause of crashes on my Mac? Internet Explorer (do you have any idea how annoying it is to get out of memory errors when running only IE while having 576MB of RAM?).

So, the machines at work and my machine at home were bought at about the same time. Now the total cost of owning/using them since last July:
Win98 Box: $5800
PowerMac: $3300

And this is only productivity. We have also replaced the video card in the Win98 box twice, so there is probably another $400. Unfortunately my boss only sees on the short term and thinks cheaper is better, so he will continue spending more and more on his PCs. Case in point, he just bought 4 HP pavillions because they were cheap. They are nothing but trouble.

Now, I do realize that a lot of these costs can be alleviated by not being an idiot like my boss. For example, picking out the parts yourself and building your own PC can make a very nice and stable box (well, at least untill you put Windows98 on it ). So these costs aren't necessarily the "global" perspective.

But then again, not everyone is a hacker who constantly needs to be under the hood of his machine or his OS just to keep things running. To paraphrase the old saying:

"I would much rather work with my Mac than work on my PC."

Hope this helps.

[edit]About other sites, here's a couple more:
http://macslash.com
http://macopinion.com
http://macedition.com


[This message has been edited by interactive_civilian (edited 03-03-2001).]

[Dr Evil]

Another site I love is www.appleturns.com. It even got a 4 star rating on the ill-fated Apple iReview. It takes a dramtic turn on Mac news and happenings and has a very funny poll every day. =)

[PJStyles]

I have to say that I am now completely convinced... and the reason for my new conviction is this :

My cousin just called me and said that he got some error message in Windows 98 saying that his registry was corrupt. He knew to call me since every single person in the family calls me whenever they have computer trouble which is quite often. And although we finally got his problem fixed I quickly realized that he would never have had this problem on a Mac and I would never have had to spend the time to try and fix this really lame problem.

So once I get some cash together, I'll be buying a Mac for sure.. probably in the late summer months. I will be selling my PC and when someone calls me to ask for Wintel troubleshooting help I will reply "I don't use windows any more I use a macintosh - best advice, sell your pc and buy a mac". I'm just so tired of helping people around me fix their computer trouble.

Thanks guys.. all of you have been a great help here!

PJStyles

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by Dr Evil:
Another site I love is www.appleturns.com. It even got a 4 star rating on the ill-fated Apple iReview. It takes a dramtic turn on Mac news and happenings and has a very funny poll every day. =)

bah!! AtAT got a 5 star review! Get your facts straight!



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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

How much does happiness cost? That is something thats not even offered by a Windows system.

[gorgonzola]

Originally posted by PJStyles:
I have to say that I am now completely convinced... and the reason for my new conviction is this :

My cousin just called me and said that he got some error message in Windows 98 saying that his registry was corrupt. He knew to call me since every single person in the family calls me whenever they have computer trouble which is quite often. And although we finally got his problem fixed I quickly realized that he would never have had this problem on a Mac and I would never have had to spend the time to try and fix this really lame problem.

So once I get some cash together, I'll be buying a Mac for sure.. probably in the late summer months. I will be selling my PC and when someone calls me to ask for Wintel troubleshooting help I will reply "I don't use windows any more I use a macintosh - best advice, sell your pc and buy a mac". I'm just so tired of helping people around me fix their computer trouble.

Thanks guys.. all of you have been a great help here!

PJStyles

I'm glad you switched, but don't think it'll stop. It never ends, I tell you.

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the oddball newsletter
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it's only after you lose everything that you're free to do anything

[dtriska]

Originally posted by PJStyles:
I have to say that I am now completely convinced... and the reason for my new conviction is this :

My cousin just called me and said that he got some error message in Windows 98 saying that his registry was corrupt. He knew to call me since every single person in the family calls me whenever they have computer trouble which is quite often. And although we finally got his problem fixed I quickly realized that he would never have had this problem on a Mac and I would never have had to spend the time to try and fix this really lame problem.

So once I get some cash together, I'll be buying a Mac for sure.. probably in the late summer months. I will be selling my PC and when someone calls me to ask for Wintel troubleshooting help I will reply "I don't use windows any more I use a macintosh - best advice, sell your pc and buy a mac". I'm just so tired of helping people around me fix their computer trouble.

Thanks guys.. all of you have been a great help here!

PJStyles

I'm glad to hear this, too. Keep posting and let us know what computer you decide to pick up this summer.

[Jellytussle]

Originally posted by Spliff:
Don't bother trying to rationalize purchasing a Mac. Just close your eyes and leap. Trust me, you won't be disappointed if you buy a Mac. Any OS and any piece of hardware will have things you don't like about it. However, the Mac OS is so much fun to use and owning a Mac is like owning a BMW. You can't stop yourself from admiring it and polishing it.

Top end PCs are like Corvettes or Mustangs. They're fast, cheaper than BMWs, but they're unreliable and they rattle a lot.

BMW? Surely not; one of those soulless, aspirational, cold and arrogant vehicles is not how I see my Mac. Macs have heart, fire, and syle by the bucketload, and I survive the occasional shortcomings because I know that taking one for a spin will lift my heart.

Macintosh is the Alfa Romeo of computers!

Cuore Sportivo

ps My new 156 Veloce gets delivered the week after OS X - gonna be a good April.

[This message has been edited by Jellytussle (edited 03-04-2001).]

[dtriska]

Originally posted by interactive_civilian:
Unfortunately my boss only sees on the short term and thinks cheaper is better, so he will continue spending more and more on his PCs. Case in point, he just bought 4 HP pavillions because they were cheap. They are nothing but trouble.

I know the feeling. My boss (who's fighting for more funding for Macs) uses this analogy: you can buy a truck for $1000 and fill it with gas 3 times a week, or you can buy a truck for $1200 and fill it with gas once a month. This takes away the whole "this PC is $200 cheaper" argument.

3 words:

Apache
PHP
mySQL

Now go develop the worlds fastest websites on the worlds fastest webserver on the worlds cheapest/best development software on the worlds best operating system on the worlds best hardware.

[parallax]

Switch over?
Didn't bother to go IBM in the first place.

Anyways, there are too many reasons to switch. But the basic idea is that Microsoft's stuff is terrible from an average consumer's standpoint, and more importantly, from an advanced user's standpoint. Microsoft may "copy" Mac OS X, but all they copy, as you said, is the interface (and not even a great job of it!)- They'll never make an attempt to duplicate the gracefulness of the inner workings, simply because most users don't care.

If you ever want to get intimate with your Operating System, Mac OS X is the way to go.

Anyway, most of us are used to playing the same game for a while. We're the spin-around-and-head-shot-in-mid-air snipers you're undoubtedly sick of :-)

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http://gilgalad.dyndns.org/

[FunandBlindness]

Macintosh is the Alfa Romeo of computers!


I like to think of mine as the Mini of computers!

[NeilCharter]

Luckily for me I've only had to use a PC a few times and that was enough.

No one has really mentioned the lack of crashes that Macs have nowadays. 9.1 rarely dies on me and its usually cos of netscape.

X is going to be even better and a joy to work with.

I think the thing I like about the Mac is that once you've set it up to do what you want, then you're flying. A certain times I have to do a lot of photoshop work and I can do my want I have to do very quickly now.

As far as price is concerned - if you're not too fussy, then getting one of the older G4s could save you a lot of cash. I bought mine six months ago for about 1500 - two months later they were down to 1200! So that's one way of getting a Mac for cheap.

Also don't forget that you can reuse your old PC monitor - it will probably work. I'm waiting for cash for a 19 inch monitor - but for now my old 17 inch monitor that I bought with a 6100/60 (sucked) will do.

Memory is the best thing you can get and it's a real bargain at this time. Also worried about lack of CD-RW in the older models - don't. A firewire drive is less that 300 and boy they're great. Love my Que.

Good luck and happy hunting.

Neil

[happypork]

Originally posted by parallax:
If you ever want to get intimate with your Operating System, Mac OS X is the way to go.

Intimate with an operating system? I guess it takes all kinds.

[maxpowr]

Originally posted by PJStyles:

The other problematic point is prices. Macs are so damn expensive. Yes, I'm well aware of the MHZ comparison and that it's not accurate to compare MHZ speeds from Intel chips to the PPC. That's not my point. The point is pricing in general for Mac hardware is quite inflated.

I started using a computer in 93. I needed word processing for school and got a portable pc using dos with a built in monochrome monitor. I bought a panasonic printer and all my "expert" friends, though they sounded very knowledgeable, were unable to make it work properly. I was extremely unimpressed at the effort required to perform what I thought a very basic task. Then I had a final paper due which I composed on wordperfect, but just wasn't printing, so on the spur of the moment I went to circuit city (?) and bought something made by apple (performa 600). It took me a few months to figure out that I could have done better if I had done some research, but I opened the box in the afternoon and got the computer to recognize my pc floppy, keep the formatting, spit it back out as a mac format, went to kinko's and had a laser print done 30 minutes before my deadline that night. I didn't know anything about computers at the time, but I was impressed to the max. Since then I bought photoshop (student price), and got involved in video editing (radius video vision studio). I bought a PM 8100/80 and shortly after that caught on to the cycle of the machines. I bought a umax s900 at the end of cycle 3 years ago and it's running strong today. Yes, I've upgraded with a newertech g3/400 (end of cycle for under $300), added a usb card, an ide controller so I could use the ibm gxp fast drives, a voodoo 3/2000 ($60), etc., and while you could say that my machine is not the fastest, it does quite well. My total out the door on this box is between $2000-2500 spread over 3 years. I may or may not be able to run osx when it comes out, but I will easily get 2 more years out of my box without adding any more money to it.

I didn't mean to go on like that, but the bottom line is that I think I've spent less money on my computer over that period of time than my pc friends, and had a LOT less frustration.

Word of advice, don't buy the latest unless you need it.

[clebin]

Originally posted by PJStyles:
Those are the only two I can think of right now. I use Cold Fusion Studio for my web development projects and just love it! It has really come in handy and not sure if there's an alternative on the Mac Platform.

Java - a mixture of JavaServer Pages and Servlets, with Enterprise Java Beans (EJBs), Java Database Connectivitiy (JDBC). jakarta-tomcat is a good JSP/Servlet engine that you can download for free from <www.apache.org>. This will link with Apple's Java 1.3 implementation, and with Apache if you want it to.

A good Java XML parser, SAX is available (again for free) from the W3C. Codewarrior and JBuilder are two good IDEs if you don't want to use the shell. Good sources of info: <www.gamelan.com>, <www.javaworld.com>

PHP3/4 - it's free and comes bundled with OS X. It's also open-source, and the Apache/PHP/MySQL model is threatening to become THE model for websites. <www.php.net> offers good information.

WebObjects - Apple's own technology is, apparently, very good has been rewritten in Java. You'll have to pay for it, but you'll be used to that with Coldfusion.

Coldfusion - like someone else mentioned, Dreamweaver Ultradev will let you develop for a Coldfusion server, and I wouldn't mind betting that they'll bring Coldfusion server to OS X in due course.

Chris

[tdominey]

I also want to point out something a typical Windows probably doesn't consider, and that's resale value. I upgrade my Macs every couple of years and sell my older ones, like trading in a car before it gets TOO old. I've never had a problem selling a used Mac, and at a good resale price too, but I'll be damned if I can get some money out of my 333mhz Dell Dimension. I've tried and tried, and I can virtually nothing for it. It's worth more as a screensaver and a fax machine than dollars.

Same can't be said for Macs. Buy one, resell it, buy another. Macs depreciate slower than Wintel, IMO.

I think a point that isn't stressed enough is the useful life you can get out of a mac. Also, I think the Mac price conceptions are based on the past and not the present.

I've got 6 year old mac (PowerMac 8500/120) and I run 9.1 on it just fun. Granted I've added some ram and harddrive space over the years. But, for the most part it's a stock machine. Try to run Win2k on a 6 year old machine!!! The money I save in not having to upgrade every 18 months or so to keep up with the bloatware that MS and others put out MORE than makes up for the small added costs of getting a Mac. Nowadays getting a mac is not substancially (sp?) more than getting an EQUIVALENT pc. Remember when people quote prices they compare a stripped down pc to a fully-featured mac. I used a sample config from Dell below. I think that we could all agree that Dell has some of the cheapest prices out there for a pre-built, name-brand PC.

I was just at Dell's site and configured a Dimension 4100 with a:
933 P3
128 MB of ram
40 GB HD
10/100MB Ethernet
8X/4X/32X CD-RW Drive
Firewire board with video-editing sw (note: this takes up a PCI slot. also I SERIOUSLY doubt that the bundled sw touches iMovie)
Wireless networking (this takes up a PCI slot)
MusicMatch bundled (not as good as iTunes IMHO)
Windows ME

I got a price of $1,386. A G4 sells for $1,699. It's more I agree but there are a few things to note. You DO get superior software (iTunes, iMovie, OS X (in summer) 9.1 for now, the antennae for the wireless network is INTEGRATED into the case (I imagine that on Dell's the antennae hangs out the back of the card. I could be wrong though.). AND if you're willing to give up some expandibility and a some harddrive space (20GB vs. 40GB) you could get a G4 cube for $1,299.

Another note, I'm quoting Apple's Store prices. You can get cheaper prices and/or more extras (free memory, free sw, etc.) from other online merchants such as: www.outpost.com www.macmall.com www.maczone.com www.clubmac.com

These guys are always running specials. Frequently they add more ram for free. For instance, right now clubmac.com and macmall.com are adding and additional 256MB of RAM for free with PowerMac G4s. Making for a total of 384MB of ram vs. 128 for the Dell. So comparison shop before you buy. Here's another helpful link:
http://www.nextag.com/serv/macbuy/custom/c1/index.html

It's a price comparision engine for mac stuff. It's the same concept as C|net's shopper comparison site. Good luck!

Lastly, since Mac's use standard VGA, USB, IDE, and standard PC memory (PC133). Getting future upgrades and peripherals will not be any more expensive than doing them on the PC (not like the old days of ADC, ADB, SCSI, non-standard serial connections). Speaking of peripherals and memory, you may be able to salvage some of your extra memory, extra HDs, printers, scanners, and monitor from your current computer.

I hope that this has addressed you price fears you first mentioned.

[Boondoggle]

The Mac is the Ferrari of computers.

Beautifully styled, temperamental, hard to find parts, expensive, somewhat rediculous, and hold thier value (even if only to you) better than mere mortal computers.

And once you drive one, your soul is lost forever. (but you'll like it)

Bd

[nuckin futs]

Originally posted by nigeljedi:
Hardware concerns: well, with the intro of DVD burners here recently, there are not many hardware items we Mac users can't have. You'll find a great selection from many on and offline sources.

you will also be surprized that some hardware that says for PC only actually works fine on a mac and are usually less troublesome to install.

[SirCastor]

Originally posted by FunandBlindness:
Macintosh is the Alfa Romeo of computers!

Gosh, for some bizzare reason I read that and saw "Macintosh is the Alf of all computers!" And so I sat thinking for a moment why on earth someone would compare a Mac to the alien star of a late 80's NBC television sitcom.

That's my contribution for the day

-Aaron