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CharlesS · Jan 11, 2009, 09:12 PM

Okay, so I just bought a 4 GB RAM upgrade for my MacBook Pro (the previous generation) from Crucial. It cost $45.99, certainly a reasonable price for 4 GB. Just to compare, I decided to go over and see how much OWC charges for 4 GB, since people are always raving about their prices. It was... $42.99? That's it? People on here are willing to go with unbranded RAM for a mere $3 savings?

I just don't get why people are always saying Crucial is so expensive. They're not!

Cold Warrior · Jan 11, 2009, 09:34 PM

I priced some desktop RAM recently and Crucial came within a few bucks compared to the no-name stuff. I went with Crucial.

MallyMal · Jan 11, 2009, 09:38 PM

4GB RAM for my Mac Pro...

Crucial: $135.99

OWC: $93.99

mduell · Jan 11, 2009, 10:01 PM

Currently 2x2GB for DDR2 Intel Macs is $35 for Crucial (via Newegg) vs $43 at OWC, which is right on par for the usual 20% OWC mark-up.

CharlesS · Jan 11, 2009, 11:17 PM

Ah, that's the same RAM I just bought for $46, isn't it. Crap. Oh well, it's only $11.

This does make OWC look even more non-cheap compared to Crucial, though.

B Gallagher · Jan 12, 2009, 03:41 AM

Just checked RAM prices for my MBP at Crucial - they just keep coming down! ^_^/

Simon · Jan 12, 2009, 04:49 AM

Newegg's 2x2GB DDR2 SO-DIMM kits

Crucial is $35, the cheapest is $33. The most expensive is Mushkin for $57.

Ted L. Nancy · Jan 12, 2009, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

unbranded RAM

You think OWC is not as good because it is "unbranded"??

CharlesS · Jan 12, 2009, 01:23 PM

I know I wouldn't trust generic RAM in my machine.

vmarks · Jan 12, 2009, 02:32 PM

Hynix, Samsung, Hyundai, they're the names on the chips used in the modules. The Crucial modules use those same chips.

I've paid for the Crucial modules, and I've bought modules that weren't branded Crucial, and the great coincidence was that they were exactly the same modules and chips.

CharlesS · Jan 12, 2009, 02:42 PM

The difference being that the branded RAM has gone through more QA testing after it comes from those manufacturers, so you have less likelihood of getting a defective module.

I've seen machines start crashing like crazy once brand-new, generic RAM was added - more than once. Since bad RAM is one of the main things that can make OS X start crashing more often than a motorcycle racer on meth, I really don't see the appeal of saving $3 by going with unbranded RAM. YMMV of course.

shifuimam · Jan 12, 2009, 04:20 PM

I don't really buy that. I've had Kingston, PNY, and Corsair RAM all be bad right out of the box...I've also had Avant RAM (they strictly sell to OEMs) be bad right off (bought on eBay).

However, all the above brands have a lifetime warranty. Even the Avant RAM - it's a much smaller company, and I talked directly to a sales guy who took care of my RMA. It was no different than exchanging RAM with one of the big companies.

Of course, part of the issue in the cases above are that you were looking at OWC, which has higher markups than other online retailers, specifically because they cater to Mac users.

mduell · Jan 12, 2009, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

Hynix, Samsung, Hyundai, they're the names on the chips used in the modules. The Crucial modules use those same chips.

You forgot Micron, the parent company of Crucial, who Crucial uses for most of their chips.

CharlesS · Jan 12, 2009, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I don't really buy that. I've had Kingston, PNY, and Corsair RAM all be bad right out of the box...I've also had Avant RAM (they strictly sell to OEMs) be bad right off (bought on eBay).

However, all the above brands have a lifetime warranty. Even the Avant RAM - it's a much smaller company, and I talked directly to a sales guy who took care of my RMA. It was no different than exchanging RAM with one of the big companies.

Of course, part of the issue in the cases above are that you were looking at OWC, which has higher markups than other online retailers, specifically because they cater to Mac users.

I'm not saying that name-brand RAM can never be bad, which is obviously not true. However, it has a significantly lower probability of being bad. I myself haven't yet got a bad stick from Crucial, Kingston, or Viking, whereas the cheap no-brand RAM I've used in the past has been bad a significant percentage of the time. As always, YMMV.

Ted L. Nancy · Jan 12, 2009, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I'm not saying that name-brand RAM can never be bad, which is obviously not true. However, it has a significantly lower probability of being bad. I myself haven't yet got a bad stick from Crucial, Kingston, or Viking, whereas the cheap no-brand RAM I've used in the past has been bad a significant percentage of the time. As always, YMMV.

Just because it has been tested is has a lower probability of being bad? I don't quite follow..

Anyways, I've never had OWC RAM go bad, and even if it did, I wouldn't care since it has a lifetime warranty just like Crucial, etc.

CharlesS · Jan 13, 2009, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Ted L. Nancy

Just because it has been tested is has a lower probability of being bad? I don't quite follow..

If it failed the testing, then presumably it would be thrown out and not sold to you, no?

Anyways, I've never had OWC RAM go bad, and even if it did, I wouldn't care since it has a lifetime warranty just like Crucial, etc.

If you're willing to risk going through the hassle of repeatedly returning RAM modules, then sure.

Ted L. Nancy · Jan 13, 2009, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

If it failed the testing, then presumably it would be thrown out and not sold to you, no?

Certainly. But does that decrease the chances of the modules that you get from going bad? Just because you throw out module that are tested to be bad off the shelf does not improve the quality of the RAM. It's still the same junk. It is the manufacturing process that matters.

Ultimately, when it comes to RAM, there are really only three marketing tools that a company can use to try to separate itself from other brands: Price, claims of testing, and some form of warranty. All RAM is essentially the same stuff.. manufactured the same. When you get down to it, a 4GB module of DDR3 is still a 4GB module of DDR3 no matter which way you look at it. It is just sold under different banners.

Also, there are two statistical approaches to this. Forgive the analogy, but this is the best way to explain it: If you flip a coin twice, you have a 1/4 chance of it coming up heads both times. However, if you flip a coin once, you have a 1/2 chance of it coming up heads. The second time you flip it, you still have a 1/2 chance of it coming up heads. Your chances of it coming up heads on the second flip were not reduced simply because you flipped it once before. Likewise, suppose there were two RAM modules, one bad and one good but which has a potential for failure. You receive the good one. Just because the bad one was eliminated doesn't have any affect on the potential of the good one to fail. The chances of failure for the good module exist independent of anything that happens to the bad module.

Although I can appreciate that eliminating bad RAM modules up front decreases the chance up them shipping a bad one to you, I do not believe that your chances of this are increased simply because you purchased "unbranded" RAM. I think that all companies, branded or not, test their RAM sufficiently and any supposed extra testing that goes into Crucial is going to have a negligible effect on your chances of receiving bad RAM (i.e. there are so few extra that Crucial may actually catch that the other companies don't that it really doesn't make a difference any more than saving the extra $3 does).

CharlesS · Jan 13, 2009, 04:42 AM

That would seem to contradict a lot of information that is available on the Web, as well as my own experience.

And frankly, the statistics aren't hard to figure out. There's a bunch of RAM in the market, and a certain percentage is bad. If you remove a bunch of the bad RAM from the market, then the odds of a random module out of the bunch being bad are reduced. The coin flip analogy makes no sense in this case at all.

Veltliner · Jan 13, 2009, 04:58 AM

I bought my RAM from crucial exclusively, and never had a problem (knock,knock, knock). I bought it directly from crucial.com.

I'm surprised to hear OWC RAM is unbranded RAM. Their external hard drive cases are quite pricey...

Bottom line: why would one save a hundred dollars by buying lesser RAM to put into a 3000$ MacPro, for example? It's like some people buy an expensive camera and then go out and get the cheapest CF cards available.

CharlesS · Jan 13, 2009, 05:03 AM

OWC is a store. OWC RAM == RAM named after a store == store-brand RAM. It's a "budget" option, being cheaper than the well-known brands such as Crucial, Kingston, etc (unless you buy through Newegg, apparently). It's generic, and therefore, I don't trust it.

I will say that OWC does make excellent hard drive cases, though.

Spheric Harlot · Jan 13, 2009, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

I'm not saying that name-brand RAM can never be bad, which is obviously not true. However, it has a significantly lower probability of being bad. I myself haven't yet got a bad stick from Crucial, Kingston, or Viking, whereas the cheap no-brand RAM I've used in the past has been bad a significant percentage of the time. As always, YMMV.

This is not my experience.

And AFAIK, the brand RAM isn't tested, either - except for the same sporadic production tests that all manufacturers run. NOBODY can afford to run full tests at today's prices.

You CAN get fully tested RAM IIRC, but it's *significantly* more expensive.

Simon · Jan 13, 2009, 05:50 AM

Do we have any evidence that brand RAM means every single DIMM is tested before it is sent out? My guess it isn't. Just like non-brand RAM.

Spheric Harlot · 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

This is not my experience.

And AFAIK, the brand RAM isn't tested, either - except for the same sporadic production tests that all manufacturers run. NOBODY can afford to run full tests at today's prices.

You CAN get fully tested RAM IIRC, but it's *significantly* more expensive.

And by "significantly more expensive", I mean SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive:

http://www.ordersite.com/canadaram/certified.htm

You want fully tested RAM? You got it:

2GB (1+1GB) PC5300 for $CAN 360.
3GB (2+1) for iMac Core 2 Duo: $1000.
4GB (2+2) PC5300: Email for pricing.

You really think ANY manufacturer fully tests their RAM before throwing it on the market at $25?

Edit:
Although oddly, the very same site offers 4GB "Certified" PC 5300 RAM for just $91 on this page:
http://www.ordersite.com/canadaram/a...acbook_pro.htm

CharlesS · Jan 13, 2009, 06:29 AM

Of course it's not fully tested, but my understanding has been that the branded RAM has more tests applied to it than the non-branded RAM - i.e. more of the RAM modules are tested, and more of the faulty ones are removed from circulation before being sold.

Ted L. Nancy · Jan 13, 2009, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

And frankly, the statistics aren't hard to figure out. There's a bunch of RAM in the market, and a certain percentage is bad. If you remove a bunch of the bad RAM from the market, then the odds of a random module out of the bunch being bad are reduced.

Except that there is still a bunch a RAM out there being used that has the potential to fail.

Why are we beating a dead horse over small percentages and $3?? I quit.

solofx7 · Jan 13, 2009, 10:36 AM

I still prefer crucial.
I have used both, and there is a perceived quality difference and I think that it is worth the difference in money.

Doc Juansinn · Jan 13, 2009, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by Veltliner

Bottom line: why would one save a hundred dollars by buying lesser RAM to put into a 3000$ MacPro, for example? It's like some people buy an expensive camera and then go out and get the cheapest CF cards available.

Really!

I once purchased OWC RAM and it was DOA. In fact, it was the only time I've ever heard that breaking glass sound. By contrast, all of my TechWorks RAM purchases have worked properly from day one (and continue to work to date).