[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

So HD-DVD's motto is "Where better because we aren't dead yet".

Whereas BD's motto is we've already won the war even though we haven't. They've been saying that since 2006.

The reason we are still in this war is not because of the price of players but because of the stupid studio's. Some movies come out for one format and not the other. One has a audio sync problem, the other a video one. Paramount goes HD because of a cash payoff late in the race when HD is losing for 12 months. Studio's dragging their asses to release any movies worth buying in HD.

Yeah, I think Disney and Warner should go back to HD DVD like they were in the first place just like Paramount, and that would end the war once and for all.

(P.S. Here's a hint... Disney got "incentives" to go Blu-ray, and Warner has been offered "incentives" from both sides to go exclusive.)

[hyteckit]

Bluray has been unable to pull away from HDDVD even with the big increase in number of PS3 sales in the last few months and the number exclusive new releases such as spiderman, pirates of the Caribbean, die hard, and ratatuoile.

I think the only reason why Bluray sales are higher this year is because of all the BOGO sales. There are at least 3 times more BOGO sales on the Bluray side than HDDVD. Just look at Amazon and it's recent BOGO sale on HDDVD and how it cause the top 20 hidef movies to all HDDVD titles except for 1 Bluray title.

For the same movies available on both HDDVD and Bluray, such as Planet Earth and the new Harry Potter movie (not part of BOGO sale), the sales of those movies are generally higher on the HDDVD side, which tell you something.


Predictions for 2008.

Warner will go HDDVD exclusive.

Disney will go format neutral.

More BOGO sales for HDDVD.

The pendulum is going to swing back to the HDDVD side in terms of movies sales.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

(P.S. Here's a hint... Disney got "incentives" to go Blu-ray, and Warner has been offered "incentives" from both sides to go exclusive.)

Ya the incentive to go BR is that you'll sell twice as many disks.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Then the $600 impossible to get PS3

Sorry, but when was the PS3 ever impossible to get? The only person who ever thought that was the head of SEA, and he got his ass handed to him by every gaming website that took photos of PS3s on store shelves. The PS3 has never been in short supply (mostly because it's never been in very high demand).

[jokell82]

And I like how people are talking about number of discs when no one recognizes that the top selling disc of EITHER format was an HD DVD. And now that an HD DVD disc is the first ever high definition format disc to reach #1 on Amazon's sales chart it's kind of difficult for *anyone* to claim that HD DVD is dead.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

And I like how people are talking about number of discs when no one recognizes that the top selling disc of EITHER format was an HD DVD. ...

Wow, I didn't realize that the top selling disc of the Blu-ray format was an HD DVD. Interesting!

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending December 16th, 2007 - Engadget HD

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Nielsen VideoScan High-Def market share for week ending December 16th, 2007 - Engadget HD

We won't get the numbers for the 23rd until next week, but here is the ranking:

Originally Posted by Eug 

Sales ratio for the week ending Dec. 23: 61 : 39

01. The Bourne Ultimatum - HD DVD
02. The Simpsons - Blu
03. Pirates 3 - Blu
04. Harry Potter - Blu
05. Harry Potter - HD DVD
06. Planet Earth - HD DVD
07. Spiderman 3 - Blu
08. Transformers - HD DVD
09. 300 - Blu
10. Planet Earth - Blu
11. Blade Runner - HD DVD
12. Blade Runner - Blu
13. Ratatouille - Blu
14. Shrek the Third - HD DVD
15. Die Hard 4 - Blu
16. Superbad - Blu
17. Oceans 13 - Blu
18. The Departed - Blu
19. The Silver Surfer - Blu
20. Casino Royale - Blu

[Face Ache]

Wandering into this thread on page 87, I didn't realise that some of you folks are quite emotionally and financially invested in these formats.

The way I see it, if Blu-ray loses the Format Wars, my PS3 is still going to be a great (and current) gaming console. If HD-DVD loses, your HD-DVD players will be the equivalent of the Betamax VCR or the Laserdisc player.

Mind you, I'm not eager to get screwed over by the movie distributors - I've just looked up the Ratatouille release dates down under:

DVD on Jan 16th - $28.
Blu-Ray on Mar 25th(!) - $43.

Say WHAT?! So I've decided my first Blu-ray movie purchase will be Ratatouille when it's around $30. I'm holding out until then. A big raspberry to the movie distributors.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Wandering into this thread on page 87, I didn't realise that some of you folks are quite emotionally and financially invested in these formats.

The way I see it, if Blu-ray loses the Format Wars, my PS3 is still going to be a great (and current) gaming console. If HD-DVD loses, your HD-DVD players will be the equivalent of the Betamax VCR or the Laserdisc player.

Well, I only have my HDDVD player for over 1 month, so I don't know how emotionally and financially invested in HDDVD I am. My HDDVD player is under $170 with 10 free movies, so it's not that big of an investment.

If HDDVD loses, my HDDVD player still plays DVD. If Bluray loses, your PS3 still plays games.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

We won't get the numbers for the 23rd until next week, but here is the ranking:

Wow, didn't realize Bourne Ultimatum is such a big seller. Spiderman 3 on Bluray is quite a disappointment.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

My HDDVD player is under $170 with 10 free movies, so it's not that big of an investment.

$170 with 10 free movies?! That's nuts. Sounds a little desperate (but a great deal for you).

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

$170 with 10 free movies?! That's nuts. Sounds a little desperate (but a great deal for you).

$800 for a Bluray player! That's nuts. I wouldn't buy outdated Bluray players for $300 either.

Considering Chinese companies are coming out with $100 to $200 HDDVD players, I'm guessing there is money to be made in cheap $100 to $200 HDDVD players? I doubt Toshiba reimburse Chinese companies for making cheap players.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Wow, didn't realize Bourne Ultimatum is such a big seller. Spiderman 3 on Bluray is quite a disappointment.

If you have seen Spiderman 3 you'd realize the MOVIE is a disappointment. I wouldn't buy it on DVD much less Blu-ray.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

If you have seen Spiderman 3 you'd realize the MOVIE is a disappointment. I wouldn't buy it on DVD much less Blu-ray.

Yeah, Spider-Man III sucked royally. I don't know what the hell they were thinking.

Actually I do, partially. There were a bunch of very vocal fans that demanded that Venom be in the movie. The director wasn't interested but the producers overruled him and demanded that Venom be in the movie. And then we get this hodgepodge mess.

[PaperNotes]

According to thedvdwars.com HD-DVD has taken the lead in post Xmas sales........because Blu-ray has sold out!!! There are no Blu-ray movies in stock at the moment!! Talk about a slaughter. Blu-ray won all year long and then sold out at Christmas.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

According to thedvdwars.com HD-DVD has taken the lead in post Xmas sales........because Blu-ray has sold out!!! There are no Blu-ray movies in stock at the moment!! Talk about a slaughter. Blu-ray won all year long and then sold out at Christmas.

Dumbest. Post. Ever.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, Spider-Man III sucked royally. I don't know what the hell they were thinking.

Actually I do, partially. There were a bunch of very vocal fans that demanded that Venom be in the movie. The director wasn't interested but the producers overruled him and demanded that Venom be in the movie. And then we get this hodgepodge mess.

That doesn't explain the dancing. Or the singing. Or the HORRIBLE dialog.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Dumbest. Post. Ever.

I was just being factual. I think I'll report your post for trying to do what you three or four HD-DVD fanboys have been doing for a year. Manipulating people into flame wars while ignoring how badly HD-DVD discs have been selling compared to other Blu-ray. Tough love.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Dumbest. Post. Ever.

Being partisan is one thing. Being rude is quite another. Don't. Just don't.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Being partisan is one thing. Being rude is quite another.

Perhaps. Nonetheless, it's not surprising that sentiment was expressed, considering it's a response to a complete bull post.

I'd be surprised if many of the BR fans here want this guy cheering for their side...

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

According to thedvdwars.com HD-DVD has taken the lead in post Xmas sales........because Blu-ray has sold out!!! There are no Blu-ray movies in stock at the moment!! Talk about a slaughter. Blu-ray won all year long and then sold out at Christmas.

Care to give a link to where on thedvdwars.com where it is claimed that BD discs are sold out?

I was at Best Buy the other day and they looked well stocked. A quick browse through Amazon finds a bunch of titles in stock.

Maybe you're confused and extrapolating Blade Runner to BD as a whole. There were supply problems for that title which led to it being backordered in many cases.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'd be surprised if many of the BR fans here want this guy cheering for their side...

Not naming any names, but I think there are people on both sides who are doing more harm than good to the side that they profess to support.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Montezuma58 

Maybe you're confused and extrapolating Blade Runner to BD as a whole. There were supply problems for that title which led to it being backordered in many cases.

Yes, although it has been mentioned that the supply problems applied to both formats. I guess Warner underestimated demand for this title overall. Furthermore, supply for the briefcase ultimate version was intentionally limited, as it is a limited-run edition.

Originally Posted by icruise 

Not naming any names, but I think there are people on both sides who are doing more harm than good to the side that they profess to support.

Nobody is denying that of course.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I was considering getting the simpsons movie on BR but I didn't think there would be a noticeable improvement in picture quality since it was a cartoon.
I downloaded a high def tailer of the BR disks and I was really impressed so I ended up getting it on BR.

It looks totally awesome and better than DVD for sure. They really upped the animation quality and you can see a ton more detail in the background images.

If you like the simpsons it is totally worth getting on BR.

[Lateralus]

I had been planning on taking sides in the HD war by snagging an HD-DVD player. But my new Philips Upconvert player does a much better job than I was expecting.

So I guess I'll wait a while longer

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I had been planning on taking sides in the HD war by snagging an HD-DVD player. But my new Philips Upconvert player does a much better job than I was expecting.

So I guess I'll wait a while longer

How big is your TV, and how far do you sit from it?

The bigger the TV and the closer the seating the distance, the more improvement you'll notice. I notice an improvement on my 42" from 8' away, but I notice it a LOT more on my 90" from 9' feet away.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I was considering getting the simpsons movie on BR but I didn't think there would be a noticeable improvement in picture quality since it was a cartoon.
I downloaded a high def tailer of the BR disks and I was really impressed so I ended up getting it on BR.

It looks totally awesome and better than DVD for sure. They really upped the animation quality and you can see a ton more detail in the background images.

If you like the simpsons it is totally worth getting on BR.

Yeah, I was wondering about this. I can most definitely believe it would be noticeably better on BR than DVD. However, the reports have been mixed. Some people have claimed that while the Simpsons BR is an improvement over DVD (of course), it's not as much of an improvement as with something like Ratatouille or Harry Potter.

In any case, Simpsons on BR hasn't sold that well, and I wonder if part of that is because of the belief by some that the DVD would scale well cuz it's a cartoon. (More likely it's just because it just doesn't appeal as much to those customers, but still, I wonder if there is an element of that DVD upscaling belief.)

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I was considering getting the simpsons movie on BR but I didn't think there would be a noticeable improvement in picture quality since it was a cartoon.
I downloaded a high def tailer of the BR disks and I was really impressed so I ended up getting it on BR.

It looks totally awesome and better than DVD for sure. They really upped the animation quality and you can see a ton more detail in the background images.

If you like the simpsons it is totally worth getting on BR.

The expanded color gamut of HD is a huge benefit all animation. That alone give the image much more "pop". CGI animation benefits even more since it can have much fine detail such as lighting, shading, and detailed materials.

Even though I ended up getting Shrek the Third on SD DVD though. My son wants to watch it all the time so I need to be able to play it on any set in the house. If it had been available on a combo disk I would not have hesitated to get it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Montezuma58 

The expanded color gamut of HD is a huge benefit all animation.

Yeah but doesn't Simpsons have a pretty limited colour palette to begin with?

Even though I ended up getting Shrek the Third on SD DVD though. My son wants to watch it all the time so I need to be able to play it on any set in the house. If it had been available on a combo disk I would not have hesitated to get it.

I got Shrek The Third on HD DVD... for free. It's been watched a few times by visiting kids at my house, but I still can't get myself to actually sit through the whole movie though. I watched a few scenes and thought they were kinda annoying.

P.S. Both my main sets have an HD DVD player so it's not an issue. I bought an Xbox 360 HD DVD drive last year, and then got a standalone this year... the latter mainly because it was only $199 with 9 free movies. Of those 9 movies I only wanted about 5 of them, but still, that means if it's $25 per disk, the player only cost me $75.

[keekeeree]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

I had been planning on taking sides in the HD war by snagging an HD-DVD player. But my new Philips Upconvert player does a much better job than I was expecting.

So I guess I'll wait a while longer

This is going to be my solution in the interim as well.

I knew the new HD players upconverted the standard DVD's, but just only discovered last week that the new standard DVD players were incorporating upconverting and for cheap (yeah...I need to get out more).

For $80 I get a new toy to play with and my DVD library will look significantly better on my 44" Panasonic. It just doesn't make sense to buy an HD player and to start buying titles when eventually one must-have movie will get released only on the format you didn't choose.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah but doesn't Simpsons have a pretty limited colour palette to begin with?


I got Shrek The Third on HD DVD... for free. It's been watched a few times by visiting kids at my house, but I still can't get myself to actually sit through the whole movie though. I watched a few scenes and thought they were kinda annoying.

P.S. Both my main sets have an HD DVD player so it's not an issue. I bought an Xbox 360 HD DVD drive last year, and then got a standalone this year... the latter mainly because it was only $199 with 9 free movies. Of those 9 movies I only wanted about 5 of them, but still, that means if it's $25 per disk, the player only cost me $75.

The Simpsons movie looked to me as if it had much more detail than it does on the TV series. I've only seen the movie on SD dvd though. But it seemed to me that HD would have been an improvement. Although probably not as much as a 3D animation title would.

If Eddy Murphy came into my house and started screaming I probably wouldn't notice. My son watches the Shrek movies so much I've learned to tune it out.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by Eug 

How big is your TV, and how far do you sit from it?

The bigger the TV and the closer the seating the distance, the more improvement you'll notice. I notice an improvement on my 42" from 8' away, but I notice it a LOT more on my 90" from 9' feet away.

37" and around 8' away.

Originally Posted by keekeeree 

This is going to be my solution in the interim as well.

I knew the new HD players upconverted the standard DVD's, but just only discovered last week that the new standard DVD players were incorporating upconverting and for cheap (yeah...I need to get out more).

For $80 I get a new toy to play with and my DVD library will look significantly better on my 44" Panasonic. It just doesn't make sense to buy an HD player and to start buying titles when eventually one must-have movie will get released only on the format you didn't choose.

Yeah, I'm really amazed. I bought the player more because I wanted the home theater in a box simplicity that it offered. Seeing that it was capable of upconverting was just something that I thought might be a nice feature but nothing really worth anticipating.

But it really does work very well, especially with newer movies. I'm very pleased with the upconverted picture compared to what I got from my previous player.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Perhaps. Nonetheless, it's not surprising that sentiment was expressed, considering it's a response to a complete bull post.

I'd be surprised if many of the BR fans here want this guy cheering for their side...

Seriously. I guess calling out bullsh*t isn't allowed (ok, maybe I could've phrased it better). But no rational Blu-Ray supporter would say that HD DVD was selling better because Blu-Ray was sold out - that's simply a ridiculously ignorant thing to say.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah but doesn't Simpsons have a pretty limited colour palette to begin with?

Normally but they totally upped it for the movie. There are actual light sources in most of the shots and they did the backgrounds and many of the objects in the 2.5D look that futurama does in smaller amounts.

Everyone watching it with me said how cool the animation, colours looked and I was hugely impressed.

The reason Harry poter or Ratatouille is because the have actual TEXTURES where you can see the detail and sharpness.

The Simpsons has no complicated textures and you can't see sharpness but it looks crisp and clean.

For sure it is one of the nicest looking cartoons I have ever seen.

[jokell82]

Sounds like how South Park looked in HD - even though it's a simple animation it still looked *awesome*.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

37" and around 8' away.

Yeah, in your case I wouldn't necessarily bother with either Blu-ray or HD DVD. Well, if you can pick up a $99 player with 7 free movies then go for it, but otherwise the benefit for you would not be huge, at least compared to the best DVDs. The good news is that all the players do upconvert DVD as well.

Originally Posted by Montezuma58 

The Simpsons movie looked to me as if it had much more detail than it does on the TV series. I've only seen the movie on SD dvd though. But it seemed to me that HD would have been an improvement. Although probably not as much as a 3D animation title would.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Normally but they totally upped it for the movie. There are actual light sources in most of the shots and they did the backgrounds and many of the objects in the 2.5D look that futurama does in smaller amounts.

OK, that makes more sense then. I was not aware of that.

[ort888]

Best Buy has a "buy 3, get 2 free" sale on all HD DVDs this week.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Face Ache 

Wandering into this thread on page 87, I didn't realise that some of you folks are quite emotionally and financially invested in these formats.

It's not that funny. By creating two competing formats the movie companys have put us all in a bad situation where half of us are going to get screwed-over eventually when our movie libraries become obsolete. I suppose the 'losers' movies will still work on their player until it dies and eventually both formats will become obsolete but it's still understandable that once you've bought into one format or the other you'd want it to 'win' and at this point a big part of winning is convincing the general public that your chosen format is 'ahead'. Sure it's stupid to root for a video format, but it's not as stupid as rooting for a political party or a football team or a religion or other traditional favorites!

[ghporter]

Rewind to the late 1970s and look at Beta versus VHS. Same sort of thing. The MARKET decided that less expensive and accessible/available beat out the technical advantage Beta had. Logical? In a way. I think that this will eventually come down to the same sort of thing, kind of like the DVD format tussle.

[Eug]

The easiest is to be format neutral. However, I won't be format neutral until Blu-ray sells a Profile 1.1 player for $199 (preferably with a few free movies), or else somebody releases an inexpensive dual-format player.

In the meantime...

Panasonic has announced a 9.5 mm thick Blu-ray burner for laptops.

This means it's small enough for MacBook Pros. However, I don't see any mention of a slot-load version yet.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The easiest is to be format neutral. However, I won't be format neutral until Blu-ray sells a Profile 1.1 player for $199 (preferably with a few free movies), or else somebody releases an inexpensive dual-format player...

I bet it's a huge advantage for a studio to be format-neutral right now because when a movie is released on both formats all the fans of each of them run out and buy theirs just to make it look like their format is doing well. What I'm saying is that if a movie is released on both formats it will sell more Blu-rays than if it were released on only Blu-ray and it will sell more HD DVDs than if it were released on only HD DVD. Or are people more likely to show support for movies that are released on their format exclusively? Or does nobody hardly care at all except for a few computer nerds on various forums.

[ort888]

I think the amount of people who buy a movie just to show support for their side is miniscule. A very vocal online minority.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I bet it's a huge advantage for a studio to be format-neutral right now because when a movie is released on both formats all the fans of each of them run out and buy theirs just to make it look like their format is doing well. What I'm saying is that if a movie is released on both formats it will sell more Blu-rays than if it were released on only Blu-ray and it will sell more HD DVDs than if it were released on only HD DVD. Or are people more likely to show support for movies that are released on their format exclusively? Or does nobody hardly care at all except for a few computer nerds on various forums.

That makes little sense. Ort's point is a good one.

Furthermore, it costs roughly twice as much to release on both formats. For low sellers, this means they can lose twice as much money on a title, because low sellers may not actually recoup authoring costs.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

That makes little sense. Ort's point is a good one.

But Ort just repeated what I just said at the end of my post that makes little sense.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

But Ort just repeated what I just said at the end of my post that makes little sense.

I was referring to the lines above that last line.

It's not that nobody cares about the war, but it's not as if many people out there are going to waste $$$$ just buying a bazillion titles they don't want just to support their side.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Seriously. I guess calling out bullsh*t isn't allowed (ok, maybe I could've phrased it better). But no rational Blu-Ray supporter would say that HD DVD was selling better because Blu-Ray was sold out - that's simply a ridiculously ignorant thing to say.

The numbers and dates are right there so easy to see on dvdwars.com. Amazon sold out of Blu-ray post Xmas and that has been the only time recently that HD-DVD beat Blu-ray sales there. Since the numbers are provided from Amazon and no third party then your calling me ridiculously ignorant is potty and nasty nonsense. You got your warning.

[PaperNotes]

And here's a screencap for those just to selfishly manipulative and downright rude enough that instead of agreeing on what is plain to see they have to try to start a flame war.....

Blu-ray out of stock on Amazon (new discs, not used).....

[icruise]

Copies of what in stock?

[PaperNotes]

Doh!

[goMac]

Fortunately, it is pretty simple to test this theory that Amazon is out of stock of Bluray discs...