[nemanirc]

There is a KB article on what parts in the new G5 iMac are intallable by the user:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86812

Love that I can easily upgrade the hard drive. Wish that I could upgrade the video card. I may have found a repalcement for my aging B&W tower.

[macfinn]

So this means I could replace the combo on a 1.6ghz with a dvd-burner for under 100 dollars. Does anyone know, wheter for example LG drives are compatible with macs? The superdrive in my PB seems to be made by Matshita..

[echosphere]

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...133-004&depa=1

Buy the Combo iMac, plop the above Superdrive in, and put keep the Combo in an external case. These drives are OEM and natively supported under OSX. Sweet!

[Amorya]

Hmmm - monitor is upgradable... mebbe someone will start selling an iMac sans display, so you can plop the panel from your old one in when you upgrade...

Do they have VGA ports? If so, you could run your old one headless like that...


Amorya

[iPoder]

Based on what it states on the Apple website, Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, and so forth) is replaceable.

Does it mean that Apple may eventually provide a upgrade mother board in the rev b, c, etc...?

If so, all the bitching about the poor graphic chip should not be the issue.

Let's cross our finger that this is Apple's intention. Afterall, this iMac G5 is most upgradable consumer machine Apple ever came out with.

[solbo]

There is always hope for third party upgrades. That wasn't really an option at all with the iMac G4. That was the least upgradable iMac ever.

[Parky]

What a huge turnaround!!

[iPoder]

Yes, there are always possibilities that third party vendor will provide an upgrade path. But what if the first party vendor Apple decides to provide that option?

What stops you from calling them up two years later to ask for a replacement motherboard of the most recent revision of iMac? That replacement should have better graphic chip, memory bus, higher speed of memory support, larger L2 cache, etc..... As long as it fits into the model you have. You can keep the LCD screen, power-supply, disk drive, optical drive to reduce the overall upgrade cost.

And based on the picture of bared guts of the iMac, it does not seem that upgrade by yourself is that difficult. At least, it is much simpler than the previous two generations of iMac.

This might be the first user-upgradable iMac that Apple ever makes.

[Eug Wanker]

Kewl!

Now what about that GPU?

[ManOfSteal]

Damn, I wasn't expecting this news at all...this could lead to some very BIG things down the road!

[TheDeathman]

Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, and so forth).

If someone made a motherboard that fit the iMac case, in theory couldn't another company make a mobo with a better gpu?

[dws]

Making the CPU, GPU & fans one unit makes a lot of sense for a consumer device. Apple is able to sell consumer devices cheaper because the main logic board is less robust than what one sees in the PowerMac. All the current one can handle is what is soldered into place.

At the very least, a different CPU or GPU would require a different fan configuration. From a mass-marketing point of view, it makes sense to sell upgrades of entire logic boards.

This announcement (along with all of the other stuff that is replaceable) clearly indicates that the current iMac form is here to stay. In fact, I get the impression that this has been worked on for a long time; and the last iMac may have simply been a placeholder device until their new plan was ready. I think that the new iMac form will be THE form for a number of years to come; since Apple would have seen no need to go to all the work of making all these parts replaceable!

The average consumer could care less, of course; but will certainly care when something dies and they are told that it is easily (and relatively cheaply) replaceable.

For geeks, this changes the entire iMac landscape. People can buy a beautiful 20" LCD screen, in an amazing form factor; and be secure in the knowledge that in a couple of years they will be able to replace the logic board with whatever latest-and-greatest Apple is offering.

Perhaps I'm suffering from RDF, but I honestly think that this changes the whole discussion.

[joe]

Great move by Apple! Most all-in-ones are a PITA to service. Even a simple hard drive upgrade can be major hassle. Wouldn't it be great if Apple offered a mobo upgrade? Environmentally friendly since you keep your old case. But still get a faster cpu/gfx when desired?

3rd party already does something similar for the slot load iMac motherboards (faster G3s/G4 upgrades). And of course the original rev A-D iMacs had socketed cpus and a mezzanine slot. But neither of those were designed to be as user serviceable as the new G5 iMacs. There's a lot of potential here for Apple or 3rd party down the road.....joe

[DeathMan]

yeah, I didn't read it...

Has apple said they are planning to create an upgrade path? or is it just that its physically possible?

From a technical standpoint, what is the actual probability of this happening? And what are the estimated costs involved? From what I've read, ATI (or was it NVidia) doesn't sell the mac version of their video cards to anyone but apple. Is this a concern?

[dws]

Originally posted by DeathMan:
yeah, I didn't read it...

Has apple said they are planning to create an upgrade path? or is it just that its physically possible?

From a technical standpoint, what is the actual probability of this happening? And what are the estimated costs involved? From what I've read, ATI (or was it NVidia) doesn't sell the mac version of their video cards to anyone but apple. Is this a concern?

Even though Apple hasn't announced an upgrade path, the fact that they made the logic board removable must mean something...

The Mac OS and new software tend to require ever-increasing amounts of processing and graphics power. And yet, history has shown a reluctance among many Mac users to replace their aging, but still completely workable, computers. As the situation now stands, many people have underpowered computers; leading to discontent (but not enough to convince them to buy a new computer). And Apple makes no money. Offering an upgrade path on their iMac logic boards would provide an additional source of revenue for Apple. A price premium would be paid for the upgrade, of course, but it would still be less than buying a new computer. An $800 logic board on a $1500 iMac (pulling a somewhat random number out of my hat), might be cheap enough to convince people to spend money that Apple wouldn't have made if they hadn't offered the upgrade possibility.

Again, why make the logic board removable by the user unless it was part of some plan that will make Apple money?

[Eriamjh]

There will be no upgrade path. There never has been or ever will be. You might be able to replace the entire mobo with a newer one (like with a Rev B, whenever they come out), but it will cost so much you might as well just buy a whole new machine.

Where do you people get these pipe dreams from?

[iPoder]

I never remember that Apple ever said mobo of previous iMac's is user-replaceable. But the website clearly indicates that on the new iMac G5, even with the LCD.

Maybe Apple will never publicly admit that iMac G5 is upgradeable because they can make more money on selling the whole new mac to the Mac franatics (or morons) like us every two years. But, I will call their supports up in two years, and ask for a replacement part (like it is suggested on the website) for the whatever new model they have.

By making the whole system flat and in traditional regular shape like a pizza box, unlike iMac G4, opens up whole new opportunities for third party vendors and Apple itself. Maybe a nutcase PC user will put a PC notebook mobo into the iMac G5 (not that I will condone it. )

Never underestimate Apple's willing on new way of thinking. At least based on my observation, Apple is willing to think unconventionally now than ever (or conventionally in the PC world). Remember the "Hell freezes over" scene that Jobs admits on moving iPod/iTune to PC world. And new Airport express for PC? And they did enjoy the huge success over their change of heart on supporting PC users.

Only time will tell, but I am crossing my fingers on it.

[iPoder]

If there is any Apple employee (or decision-maker) reading this, I hope that I can make a little business sense out of you.

There is very little cost to support upgrade path with no R&D cost (simply repackaging the system board into a box, instead of assembling it into an iMac in the factory), minimum advertising cost, but it eases the potential iMac buyers' concern over aging GPU and high cost of replacing a perfectly fine LCD monitor simply because the CPU or GPU is too slow.

Upgrading may not be for everyone (grandpa or grandma), but it is still a healthy industry to make some money out of it. Why let third party vendor make the profits while Apple can easily claim them?

For consumer, even 50% of original price to upgrade to a new mobo or system, though high, is still worthy of a thought before buying a new computer every three or four years. A win-win situation for both.

So my question to Jobs is "WHY NOT?"

[Ratm]

Really cool! I was going to post the same link. I saw this over at AI... linky
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=636

[tigas]

If that PCMCIA card inside the iMacG5 is the Airport Extreme, it's *another* airport form-factor that Apple has introduced. At least make it be compatible with the old Airport "classic" slots, please!

[iPoder]

You can tell that I am pretty excited about this possibility. Here is another post from me.

Let me do an intelligent guess on the price structure of current iMac parts, factoring in all the markup and profits they have to make. For iMac 20" G5 ($1899),

Whole system - $1899
LCD - $999 (compared to Apple Studio Display $1299)
160 GB HD - $150
4X Superdrive - $75
256 MB RAM - $50
Power adapter - $25
keyboard and mouse - $50
System housing (the case, and the stands) - $50,

so the cost of the main system board, including CPU, GPU, L2 cache, ports, fans, speakers, etc, should be around $600, which is about 1/3 of the total system cost.

Assume in two years, Apple comes out with rev. d of iMac G5, and manage to reduce the price to $1699 with the following configuration (if the history of past iMac revision holds)

3.0 GHz G5 (probably a norm at the time)
512K L2 cache
1.0 GHz system bus
same ports as in current version, maybe a 1394b firewire support
Radeon 9800 with 128 MB RAM
512 MB RAM
12X Superdrive
300 GB HD
533 MHz DDRAM support
same case and stand,

If the price structure of each part still holds, we are looking at the cost of system board (sans memory, HB, optical drive, power adapter) around $600.

The question is : will you upgrade your existing iMac G5 to this new system (with slower optical drive, and smaller HD,etc) for that price?

And Apple can market it as the "genuine part from Apple" like automaker.

For me, I will definitely think about it.

[Simon]

Originally posted by iPoder:
So my question to Jobs is "WHY NOT?"

For the same reason as always: Because Apple makes more money when they sell you a completely new iMac than when they sell you a new rev motherboard.

Apple is not the red cross. It's a business. It might be sad, but it's true.

[The Jackalope]

Even if they don't offer an upgrade path, this is still fantastic news. That has done it, I'm definitely getting the 20" model. I'll be looking forward to a 16x dual-layer DVD burner to replace the superdrive within a few months. The idea of larger SATA drives in the future is also great.

Apple pulled a win with this one (I don't play games, so the GPU is ok by me).

[pliny]

From the kb article:


iMac G5 parts you can install yourself

Think you need a new part? You can replace many of your iMac G5's parts yourself.

The iMac G5 is designed to make it easy for you to install replacement parts if you need to. The parts you can install yourself are:

AirPort Extreme Card

Memory - DDR 400 MHz (PC3200) SDRAM

Hard drive

Optical drive

Power supply

LCD display

Modem card

----> Mid-plane assembly (contains the main logic board, the G5 processor, fans, NVIDIA graphics processor, and so forth).

I wonder what this means. The whole thing or separate parts in the midplane?

If the LCD is swappable, and the hd and the o-drive, then why not the graphics card?

This kb article seems to suggest it is.

[iPoder]

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the same reason as always: Because Apple makes more money when they sell you a completely new iMac than when they sell you a new rev motherboard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, this is the flawed logic that Apple needs to get out of it.

For most of non-rich people, they are simply waiting longer (5 years or more) to get a new machine.

If there is a chance that they can renew their machine by buying the new mobo, they might do it sooner (2 or 3 years).

For those upgrade fanatics (plenty of them out there), they will do it even more frequently.

Just like the way Apple charges their part (mouse, keyboard, wireless card, etc), I think the profit margin selling the parts is actually higher than selling a whole new computer. So you do the math to see which way might generate more profits for them. This is not counting on those people, who hesitates on AIO design concept that Apple might persuade to buy an iMac.

How many reviews that you have seens on the web point out the fact that iMac is non-upgradable. Or the negative opinion on the all-in-one design. Fact or not, this is a negative compaigne or image for selling iMac.

Just like you say, it is all business. I am simply pointing out the different ways of doing business. Or different way of thinking.

[galarneau]

This whole idea of user upgradeable motherboard as a future upgrade path doesn't make much sense to me.

Why spend (let's guess) $300-400 on a replacement upgraded motherboard when you can sell your iMac for a $300-400 loss in a year or two and get a new machine with bigger hard drive, new screen, more memory, faster dvd-r, etc?

I think the ease of replacing parts is more useful from a servicing standpoint than a future-upgrade-path.

That's one of the benefits of having a machine that holds its value.

[george68]

Look guys, this isn't going to f*cking happen. The ONLY imac that had an upgradable graphics card was the FIRST generation FIRST revision iMac, since it had an expansion slot ON THE MOTHERBOARD which was basically a really small PCI slot called a 'mezzanine connector'.

Replacing the ENTIRE board, with the CPU, logic, gpu etc would not only cost a complete shitload, but it would be stupid. What would you do with the old one? You'd have a G5 processor mobo and almost nobody would want it, since that's what everyone already has.

The list of parts are not 'future upgrades', it **** you can REPLACE if it BREAKS. As for the HD and superdrive being swapable, is this big news to anyone?!?!? I've replaced drives on every single generation of iMac to date (save the G5).

- Rob

[george68]

Also, replacing the whole mobo is STUPID. Why? With the exception of the graphics card, everything is top notch. HENCE.

APPLE: REPLACE THE F*CKING GRAPHICS CARD.

- Rob

[iPoder]

Hey guys, I am not here to debate whether it is going to happen or not. If Apple does not provide the upgrade path, third party vendors will take advantage of it. Whether people will choose one way or the other is their own decision-making.

If the upgrade does not make sense, the whole industry will not exist. Last time I check, there seem to be plenty of companies out there making money by selling mother boards, hard drives, optical drives to you.

Even everything on the new iMac is top-notch today, it does not mean it is still good enough for daily use in two years. I still feel the resentment I had when I bought the first revision of white iBook G3 with the lousy ATI graphic chip. After merely a year, I couldn't even run Mac OS X decently. A year !! Not 5 years later.

When I buy a car, I want to make sure the company provides sufficient parts for me in next ten years or longer. I feel more confident on spending 20 grands on it. Why it is so different on buying a computer?

[Eriamjh]

What about this: If Apple made the computer more serviceable by the user, maybe they are planning on cutting back on support and going to start saying "Look at the LEDs. If they are doing (fill in the blank), then you need (fill in the blank). Fix it yourself <click>."

However, it may also be a tool to help Apple help its customers diagnose problems over the phone, making phone support quicker and easier and cheaper. I vote for the latter.

I do think that Apple should bring back the mezzanine slot. Let third party devlopers make expensive Radeon cards. At least we'll have a choice.

How about just ONE PCI, PCI-X, or PCI-Express slot? Even if it is a mini.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by george68:
Also, replacing the whole mobo is STUPID. Why? With the exception of the graphics card, everything is top notch. HENCE.

APPLE: REPLACE THE F*CKING GRAPHICS CARD.

- Rob

ahh ... so the g card ISNT user replaceable ... ok .. then all the griping is warranted .. =) .. a better card SHOULD be made an option .. seem i am behind in Mac Required reading

[tigas]

Originally posted by tigas:
If that PCMCIA card inside the iMacG5 is the Airport Extreme, it's *another* airport form-factor that Apple has introduced. At least make it be compatible with the old Airport "classic" slots, please!

Wishful thinking. It's the mini-PCI, but face downwards...

[BenN]

Originally posted by george68:
Look guys, this isn't going to f*cking happen.

I recall someone called Ryan was equally emphatic about what Apple would or wouldn`t do; I`d be careful with your predictions if I were you.......

Replacing the ENTIRE board, with the CPU, logic, gpu etc would not only cost a complete shitload, but it would be stupid. What would you do with the old one?

Well, for myself, I would probably get a cheapo PC case & see if I could make a G5 FrankenMac with the leftover parts, for use as a hobby box.

As for the HD and superdrive being swapable, is this big news to anyone?!?!? I've replaced drives on every single generation of iMac to date (save the G5).

The difference being, with the G5 iMac you won`t void your warranty by replacing these parts.

Even if mobo upgrades don`t materialize, I still think this is a great step forward for Apple; the inability for users themselves to upgrade or replace their G3/G4 iMac`s HDD or optical drive, and still keep their warranty, was dumb IMO.

[nemanirc]

I think it will be an opportunity for the third party card manufacturers. If the G5 has a good GHz upgrade path ahead of it, I could see Sonnet or XLR8 releasing an iMac upgrade down the road. The difficulty upgrading the gumdrop and desk lamp iMacs is why I have not taken the plunge with them and have stuck with my upgradeable B&W G3.