[olePigeon]

Suppose you're on a boat and ALL officers are killed (or captured, or whatever), and you can't communicate with any command official, and only NCOs are left on the ship; does the highest ranking NCO become captain, and does he or she assume all rights and privileges of being a captain?

Are they required to relinquish command to the first Naval officer that shows up, even without orders?

[Big Mac]

I bet Glenn would know.

What makes you wonder about such a scenario?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I bet Glenn would know.

What makes you wonder about such a scenario?

Had an argument with a friend who said that there are NCOs that outrank 2nd Lieutenants, I told him that a 2nd Lieutenant outranks any NCO, but he would be a moron (and probably punished by his superior officer) for ignoring advice from a veteran soldier and/or ordering him or her around all the time.

I remember reading that during WWII (and only during WWII) there was a special rank for a Sergeant with no contact with an officer that gave them the equivalent rank, privilege, and responsibility of a lieutenant, but that was the only time they ever did that.

In any event, this particular situation would have an NCO outranking an officer, but only if they didn't have to relinquish command to a Naval officer. Also, only if they were still considered an NCO and not assume some sort of field commission of Captain.

I don't know much about military contingency command structure.

[ThinkInsane]

I couldn't say for certain, not being a swabbie and all, but I would assume the way you stated it would be the case. The senior NCO would take command and act as Captain until relieved. Even if that NCO was given a battlefield commission, I don't imagine he/she would be left as Captain of a ship.

[SpaceMonkey]

One has to imagine that if this scenario occurred, the ship is likely not in a condition to be going anywhere anyway!

[The Final Dakar]

If all Admin and Moderators of NN are killed (captured, whatever), does the person with highest post count takeover?

Because, honestly, that'd be frightening.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

If all Admin and Moderators of NN are killed (captured, whatever), does the person with highest post count takeover?

Because, honestly, that'd be frightening.

Are you planning a mutiny?

[The Final Dakar]

No, I'd never get to power. Assuming I have posted the most (doubtful) I'd be knocked off the technicality that they weren't all on the same account.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

If all Admin and Moderators of NN are killed (captured, whatever), does the person with highest post count takeover?

Because, honestly, that'd be frightening.

I believe the official policy in such a situation is that control be decided Highlander-style. Get your swords sharpened, there can be only one.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I believe the official policy in such a situation is that control be decided Highlander-style. Get your swords sharpened, there can be only one.

I think we all know who would win in that event. Well, did his mom ever let him get the sword?

[Spheric Harlot]

[SpaceMonkey]

Actually, I think after he got the sword the only remaining mystery was whether he ever figured out how to properly clean it. Who knows what it looks like now! The advantage then might go to an expert sword caretaker, as opposed to an expert destroyer of Mac clones.

[ghporter]

The "captain" of a vessel is its commander, whether that person is a commissioned officer or not. Thus the highest ranking Petty Officer (the Navy calls the senior enlisted petty officers rather than Non Commissioned Officers) would be the "captain" of the vessel. This is a touchy subject; In part because some officers are threatened by people who are more experienced and better learned (and often much smarter) than they are, and in part because you'd better be darn sure you ARE the highest ranking person before claiming captaincy.

Practically, the highest ranking person who can do anything takes "acting" command and ensures the survival of the ship before all else in such a disaster. Once everything is less critical, the smart step would be to do a full search of the ship and account for everyone. This tends to locate people who were trapped in compartments that had no communication, etc., and thus potentially find higher ranking people than the one who got the ship out of harm's way.

[olePigeon]

Thank's ghporter.

[Rumor]

E-1 Seaman Recruit (SR)
E-2 Seaman Apprentice (SA)
E-3 Seaman (SN)
E-4 Petty Officer Third Class (PO3)
E-5 Petty Officer Second Class (PO2)
E-6 Petty Officer First Class (PO1)
E-7 Chief Petty Officer (CPO)
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer (SCPO)
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer (MCPO)
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (MCPON)

W-1 Warrant Officer 1 (WO)
W-2 Warrant Officer 2 (CWO2)
W-3 Warrant Officer 3 (CWO3)
W-4 Warrant Officer 4 (CWO4)
W-5 Master Warrant Officer (CWO5)

O-1 Ensign (ENS)
O-2 Lieutenant, Junior Grade (LTJG)
O-3 Lieutenant (LT)
O-4 Lieutenant Commander (LCDR)
O-5 Commander (CDR)
O-6 Captain (CAPT)
O-7 Rear Admiral (Lower Half) RADM (LH)
O-8 Rear Admiral (Upper Half) RADM (UH)
O-9 Vice Admiral (VADM)
O-10 Chief of Naval Operations /Commandant of the Coast Guard (ADM)
O-10 Admiral (ADM)
Fleet Admiral (Wartime only)

Assuming all the O ranks are dead, command would go to a Warrant Officer. If they are not present, it would go to the highest ranked Enlisted. Say there are to E-7's on board, then I am not sure what would happen. Perhaps Thunderdome?

[Cold Warrior]

If the rank is the same, one uses the date of rank (when the person was promoted to that rank). The person holding the rank the longest is in charge in your scenario.

[The Final Dakar]

What if the two people happen to be conjoined twins that were promoted on the same day?

[vcutag]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

What if the two people happen to be conjoined twins that were promoted on the same day?

Then they're both in command and make decisions by flipping a coin.

[lpkmckenna]

I'm Army. I gotta say, this "situation" would be unusual, even for us. Regardless, while Senior NCOs are expected to respect junior officers, they're rarely commanded by them. For instance, if I were a platoon Sergeant, my superiors would be a Warrant Officer and a Captain. There's just no place for a 2Lt, unless his only job was admin assistant to the captain. Given this situation, the death of the platoon's captain would lead to the warrant assuming command, not some 2Lt becoming commander.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

What if the two people happen to be conjoined twins that were promoted on the same day?

Thunderdome.

(A set of conjoined twins flopping around on stage at a Tina Turner concert)

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

If the rank is the same, one uses the date of rank (when the person was promoted to that rank). The person holding the rank the longest is in charge in your scenario.

It can come down to the individuals' birth dates after that.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

It can come down to the individuals' birth dates after that.

It absolutely can. Had a pop quiz one day in ROTC about that since we'd all been sworn in on the same date (didn't have commissions yet). I never knew if the Cpt was joshing us or not, but he'd been a senior NCO for so long (before HIS commission) that he had a truly refined gift for sarcasm.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I'm Army. I gotta say, this "situation" would be unusual, even for us. Regardless, while Senior NCOs are expected to respect junior officers, they're rarely commanded by them. For instance, if I were a platoon Sergeant, my superiors would be a Warrant Officer and a Captain. There's just no place for a 2Lt, unless his only job was admin assistant to the captain. Given this situation, the death of the platoon's captain would lead to the warrant assuming command, not some 2Lt becoming commander.

That may be the expectation in the Canadian army, but not the US Army. Officers are expected to lead and command, even as a 2LT, and that 2LT as PLT LDR is most certainly in charge of his PSG. Any other structure in practice is an abdication of everyone's duties as NCOs and COs. Again, US Army, and PLTs are usually led by a LT (1/2LT) while companies are led by CPT. But a PLT led by an NCO or WO would likely not take orders from a 2LT in another platoon unless that 2LT were acting as company XO.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

That may be the expectation in the Canadian army, but not the US Army. Officers are expected to lead and command, even as a 2LT, and that 2LT as PLT LDR is most certainly in charge of his PSG. Any other structure in practice is an abdication of everyone's duties as NCOs and COs. Again, US Army, and PLTs are usually led by a LT (1/2LT) while companies are led by CPT. But a PLT led by an NCO or WO would likely not take orders from a 2LT in another platoon unless that 2LT were acting as company XO.

I think different organizations use the warrant classes differently. I always thought the WO desigination was for technical types (or pilots) not for folks in chain of command (unless commanding a ground crew or something).

In any case, the interesting question is, after 33 days in a lifeboat, who we should eat first.

"How long is it?"

"That's a rather personal question, sir."

[ThinkInsane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant...(United_States)

I never realized the Air Force didn't utilize Warrant ranks. I also didn't know the Coasties would let a Warrant Officer hold a command. Learn something new every day!

[ghporter]

The Air Force retired their last WO about 35 years ago. For some reason they felt they could do without Warrants while the other services feel they're essential. The duties of WOs were divided between Senior NCOs and junior commissioned officers. I would say that the success of this was a mixed bag-few SNCOs are generalist enough to be good stand ins for Warrant Officers, and few junior officers are experienced enough to be good officers, let alone specialized, technical officers.

The first time I had WOs show up for a class I was teaching, I thought they were civilians; they were listed as "Mr. Smith" and "Mr. Jones." They were very good about educating me (I was an E4 Senior Airman at the time) without condescension or sarcasm. I like Warrants a lot because of this.