[GK]

[Adam Betts]

InsideMacGames hold that information.

[xyber233]

There was a problem when Apple switched to 10.1. They are waiting to see if 10.2 solves the problem.

[Leonard]

Just seen an update on this on IMG... see http://www.imgmagazine.com/news/stor...ArticleID=4649

Apparently they are working on it and getting some tips from Apple on what to look for.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Leonard:
<STRONG>Just seen an update on this on IMG... see http://www.imgmagazine.com/news/stor...ArticleID=4649

Apparently they are working on it and getting some tips from Apple on what to look for.</STRONG>

Ugh...I hate the way the Adams' make it sound like they're doing work on UTX. "Oh yeah, we've been in touch with Apple about the problem...yeah, they're going to help us next week."

I hope they're working on other parts of the game that need work (through 10.0.4 of course)...rather than sit and stare at that one problem that makes the game crash on startup.

Not that I'm not grateful that they're porting UT to OS X...it's just the Westlake team are a talented bunch (at least with OS 9 games they are) and I would have thought that a problem such as this one could have been found much earlier.

[Archangel]

How about you just pop on in at the Westlake HQ and figure it all out for them? That would be great! Mmmmkay? Thanks.

Glenda Adams is doing this for free and on her own time. I'm sure she's doing all she can give these limitations. Give her a break.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Archangel:
<STRONG>How about you just pop on in at the Westlake HQ and figure it all out for them? That would be great! Mmmmkay? Thanks.

</STRONG>

Maybe I will smart-ass! It would be funny to see the looks on their faces when I break in and fix the code and sneak out though.

Edit: I bet the Omni Group could do it in their own free time also...and get it down before the end of the week...but I guess it's a little more complicated since whoever owns UT's probably not going to give the source code to anyone but Westlake.

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

[Jansar]

Well, keep in mind that Westlake Interactive's been busy with a myriad of games. Check out apple.com/macosx/applications to see what I mean.

[Leonard]

I think they're doing a great job - both Mark and Glenda. At least they ARE working on it. They could work on things in their spare time that they are actually getting paid for - they have a ton of other projects to work on. The thing I question in the article is how much support are the getting from Apple.

[blizzard]

Just FYI...Mark = Glenda

Check out IMG for the details.

[Guy Incognito]

Are you sure they're working on it? Seems to me like Glenda Adams was just putzin' around for about 3 months trying to figure out what the problem was and then gave up and asked Apple for some help.

I appreciate her effort but I wanna see some improvements...or at least hand the project over to Omni (if they're willing to do the porting) or something. As of lately we're not getting any news about the port other than "wah, wah...I can't put my finger on the bug that makes UT crash in 10.1...wah, wah!" And like I said this has been going on for over 2-3 months...unless she refuses to mention that she's actually working on fixing other parts of the game (I did hear some news that she's gotten Harry Potter's music engine working which is the same engine used in UT, so I guess that's good news.)

[Brad Oliver]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>As of lately we're not getting any news about the port other than "wah, wah...I can't put my finger on the bug that makes UT crash in 10.1...wah, wah!"</STRONG>

Glenda is working full-time on shipping Harry Potter, another UT-based game which works in OSX. She's been rolling fixes one-by-one back into the main UT code, but obviously one person can only do so much, especially when paying projects have more priority over 2 year old games. Show a little composure and patience - it'll be ready eventually.

Brad

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Brad Oliver:
<STRONG>

Glenda is working full-time on shipping Harry Potter, another UT-based game which works in OSX. She's been rolling fixes one-by-one back into the main UT code, but obviously one person can only do so much, especially when paying projects have more priority over 2 year old games. Show a little composure and patience - it'll be ready eventually.

Brad</STRONG>

I know...I've over-reacted and I apologize. It's just that I get frustrated when I the only news update we get is 'the bug is still present and there's nothing we can do about it'...why wouldn't Glenda tell us the progress she's made with other parts of the game rather than dwell on bad news?

A simple 'I've fixed this and this and this but I won't release the preview yet until the crash-on-launch bug is fixed' would make me a happy man.

[Jansar]

I cannot wait until the day. Within the next six months or so, there will be a ton of mac gaming titles available.

[Brad Oliver]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>why wouldn't Glenda tell us the progress she's made with other parts of the game rather than dwell on bad news?</STRONG>

You will not be shocked to find out that she has the same crash that everyone else does - she can't _play_ the game to know that the bugfixes being rolled in from Harry Potter work as advertised. So the options are a) fix the bug or b) work on something else.

Brad

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Brad Oliver:
<STRONG>

You will not be shocked to find out that she has the same crash that everyone else does - she can't _play_ the game to know that the bugfixes being rolled in from Harry Potter work as advertised. So the options are a) fix the bug or b) work on something else.

Brad</STRONG>

Oh my freakin' God...you mean she can't revert back to 10.0.4 to test it out like she did before? I thought you were a good programmer. I respect your work such as MacMAME and stuff but that last comment took the cake.

Apparently UTX worked well under 10.0.4 and broke under 10.1...or so Glenda says. What was even weirder is that she said that '10.1' was *strongly* recommended. This is where the confusion begins. It seems she tested it out under 10.0.4 but not under 10.1 or else she would have found that bug right (or so you say since she can't test out the other bugfixes), so why the hell would she 'STRONGLY recommend' 10.1? *BUT* I *ALSO* remember hearing that she *WAS* running UTX under 10.1 with no problems and that she was having a hard time reproducing that crash-on-startup-bug on her setup(s).

So don't give me anymore bullshit...please! I know that you're required to defend Westlake from the angry mob now that you work for them but c'mon...don't feed me this garbage.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

What's your problem? She's doing this for FREE! She is not required by you or anyone else to release it. You think Glenda has the game fixed and just isn't releaseing it? Yah that's it because she just likes to see us suffer. I don't ever remember her saying she could run under 10.1 fine. If you think you can do better, then get together a small group of modders and fix it yourself. But don't start dogging Westlake or Glenda or even Brad for somthing none of them have to do.

Strider

[Brad Oliver]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>Oh my freakin' God...you mean she can't revert back to 10.0.4 to test it out like she did before? I thought you were a good programmer. I respect your work such as MacMAME and stuff but that last comment took the cake.</STRONG>

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. My programming has nothing to do with UT - I thought you knew that. You know that a trip back to 10.0.4 requires a lot of work, right? There's not really any point in that. I mean, who still runs 10.0.4? And why would she hose her dev machine to test it under 10.0.4 when nearly everything needs to run under 10.1 nowadays? Of all the projects Glenda is working on, UT is the only one that's being done for free in her spare time. It's pretty easy to make the call in that case.

<STRONG>*BUT* I *ALSO* remember hearing that she *WAS* running UTX under 10.1 with no problems and that she was having a hard time reproducing that crash-on-startup-bug on her setup(s). </STRONG>

I know this is going to be very hard for you to believe, but sometimes when you make changes to the code (for example a simple upgrade to CodeWarrior 7.1), a hard-to-reproduce problem can suddenly happen every time. The first preview ran fine for her under 10.1, the second one dogs it every time.

<STRONG>So don't give me anymore bullshit...please! I know that you're required to defend Westlake from the angry mob now that you work for them but c'mon...don't feed me this garbage.</STRONG>

If it were my call, I wouldn't be working on it. I would certainly have no desire to finish it on your behalf. Luckily for you, it's not my decision. You need to quit whining and start acting your age - this is just a game, and it's certainly not worth getting worked up about. If you can't handle the truth, then it's time to move on to other things you can handle.

Brad

[Guy Incognito]

No, no, no...don't get me wrong, I couldn't care less if the game was carbonized or not. And no, I don't need to quit my whining for anyone. And in case you might be wondering, there are plenty of people that would probably carbonize or make a cocoa version of UT for FREE if the source were given to them. But nooooo, it's stuck behind Westlake's doors and it'll take as long as they want it to take because it's all done on Glenda's free time and she doesn't have to do it if she doesn't feel like it.

Sorry, bub, but I'm sure in the hands of someone else, the game would have been done by now and for free too (Mmm, Fruitz of Dojo, OmniGroup.)

And how do you know I'm not 8 years old and am acting my age.

Anyways, like I said, I don't care if the game gets carbonized or not. I just feel sorry for everyone that has to sit down and listen to Glenda whine about not being able to fix a bug that has been present since the first release of the preview about 3 months ago.

Good day.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

[Guy Incognito]

*removed at the request of Apple Legal*

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

The release of the source code is not up to Westlake it's up to Aspyr. Second no one forced them to sit down and listen to Glenda as you have stated. Quit resorting to sad insults and accept the facts, it wouldn't come out at all if it weren't for Glenda and if it takes her long to fix a bug then deal with it. I'm sure she would give it more priority if you were to send her somthing in the sum of a couple thousand dollars. You have to understand if there is a choice between porting a game you get payed for and one that your doing as a hobby, your going to pick the one you get payed for. I wont be replying again, because obviously you refuse to accept anything but what you want to think.

Strider

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by &lt;Strider&gt;:
<STRONG>The release of the source code is not up to Westlake it's up to Aspyr. Second no one forced them to sit down and listen to Glenda as you have stated. Quit resorting to sad insults and accept the facts, it wouldn't come out at all if it weren't for Glenda and if it takes her long to fix a bug then deal with it. I'm sure she would give it more priority if you were to send her somthing in the sum of a couple thousand dollars. You have to understand if there is a choice between porting a game you get payed for and one that your doing as a hobby, your going to pick the one you get payed for. I wont be replying again, because obviously you refuse to accept anything but what you want to think.

Strider</STRONG>

I think the communication channel got severed somewhere along the line. I don't give a flying **** if UT gets ported to X.

I've paid for UT and UT:GOTY, I've played it thoroughly and had my fun playing UT against my friends. I don't have much time for games anymore...and if I were to play games now, I'd certainly get myself something new.

But face it, jack-ass, if Aspyr aloud someone else to get the source code for UT, someone would definitely port it for free on their own free time. Fruitz of Dojo, Omni, iD, Blizzard are all example of companies or small (sometime one member) that have ported their games or old games using open-source code.

iD ported Quake 3 using Omni almost instantenously.
Omni ported Oni, Heavy Metal F.A.K.K. They did that for free.
Blizzard kindly ported StarCraft to OS X...on their own free time, and they're not asking a cent for it. They're doing the same with Diablo 2.
Fruitz of Dojo have ported Quake 1 and Quake 2 in a matter of days. For *gasp* FREE! ON THEIR OWN FREE TIME!

Wow...the demand is there for UT, I've seen message boards fill up with people wanting UT to be ported to OS X. Give the source code to one of the above dudes and one of them might be willing to port it to OS X FREE on their own FREE TIME.

If they don't, there are lots of freelancers that will do it.

I don't care if you do or don't reply again. I've analyzed both sides of the coin...the poor UT fans that have to swallow this 'I can't get that darn bug fixed' for 3 months...and poor Glenda that needs to be sympathesized with because she's porting UT on her own free time and not getting paid for it so it'll take as long as it has to take.

And my analysis is that Glenda needs no sympathy. If she doesn't want to port or wants to take her time on it, I'd kindly ask her to ask Aspyr to allow some other porting house or freelancer to port it.

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

[a2daj]

Wow, you don't give a damn, but you go out of your way to be a jackass to everyone else over the game. Really mature there. IMO, your incessant whining is more reason to not even bother finishing up the port. Thankfully, not everyone out there shares your sentiments. I feel sorry for anyone that has to put up with your BS.

And if you haven't noticed, Omni doesn't have as much time to work on free ports as they use to since they're getting paid for commercial products now. If they did, they probably would have finished their Quake 2 port a long time ago. Omni has ported Quake I and Quake II to NextStep/OS X Server in the past. And with my experience with the Quake sourcecode, there's a lot of similarity between the code bases. It's not too far of a stretch to think that the Quake III source is similar enough to be able to reuse code from their Quake I and II code to get Quake III up fairly quickly.

I highly doubt Fruitz of Dojo would be able to get the Unreal engine up and running that quickly. The game is written in C++ and C++ is notorious for having issues across different platforms, particulary when PC programmers use weird tricks that cater to how PC compilers handle C++ code, which may not translate very well to Mac compilers. The Quake code is highly portable. It's written in C and doesn't really rely on weird C tricks. I'm not saying Fruitz of Dojo is bad, I'm just saying the Unreal engine isn't as easily portable. Working with a 'new' OS with a number of quirks and a new compiler which may cause more problems can be a pain in the ass.

Oh, and guys, Macsoft owns the rights to Mac Unreal Tournament...

[Brad Oliver]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>I think the communication channel got severed somewhere along the line. I don't give a flying **** if UT gets ported to X.</STRONG>

So you're posting to this thread because...? To quote you earlier: "I appreciate her effort but I wanna see some improvements" Your *** may not be flying, but it's not sitting still either.

<STRONG>But face it, jack-ass, if Aspyr aloud someone else to get the source code for UT, someone would definitely port it for free on their own free time.</STRONG>

Aspyr won't "aloud" anything about UT itself. MacSoft owns the rights. What's more, the PC developer would have to open-source the Unreal engine, which isn't going to happen. You can't just "give" code to someone. If that were the case, PC companies would be open-sourcing their old non-profitable games left and right and the Mac would get a windfall of 2-3 year old games.

<STRONG>For *gasp* FREE! ON THEIR OWN FREE TIME!</STRONG>

What you fail to notice is that these companies don't have nearly the workload. How many titles does iD crank out a year? Blizzard? There's also a big difference between the UT engine and the Q3 engine. Q3 was designed and meant to be easily ported. UT was not. About the only thing they have in common is that they are 3D engines.

You miss another critical point: both Q3 and the Blizzard games have the same development team and publisher. For MacSoft to hand off the UT source, it would effectively screw them (and Glenda) out of any hope of future income/royalties on a game that still sells because the PC publisher and developer are different on UT.

<STRONG>And my analysis is that Glenda needs no sympathy.</STRONG>

No one is asking for sympathy for her. They're asking for you to get a sorely-needed clue, and perhaps some manners. Repeat after me - "it's just a game, and I don't give a flying ****."

Brad

Well.... I read a post of Glenda this morning:
"&gt; Thanks for all the hard work Glenda, you and Westlake rock! Of course
&gt; what will we call it, Deus Double X? BTW, any chance RtCW will be on the
&gt; shelves by Janurary 25th? It'd be a nice birthday present;-)
&gt;
That's a good question.. Deus XX - sounds a bit too racy Not sure
when RtCW will hit the shelves, but its getting close!

A bit of good news on the UT X front- I fixed the problem with
command/control/shift keys not working in the engine (this was a bug
that showed up in Harry Potter too), so at least that will be fixed in
UT once I fix the loading bug.

And no promises, but now that Rune HOV is finally finding an outlet,
maybe I will reconsider re-opening Rune someday to put X support in it.
It may depend how HOV sells, since I have to gauge how popular the game
still is. We WON'T be doing Klingon Honor Guard for X Even if
Utterer does want it!

&gt; Also, I want to congratulate you on your recent decision. So many people
&gt; push away thier truths of self in this day and age, it's good to see
&gt; that you are not falling victim to introspective blindness. The best of
&gt; luck to you, and know that there are many who support your choice.
Thanks. Response from the community really has been very good, which is
a great relief."

You get that she is still working on UT X, but really: How would one debug a game where you cannot see the bug fixed/not fixed in?
Secondly: Q3 was designed using TCP/IP, using OpenGL, making a port as easy as possible. This makes every Q3-basing game (Elite Force, RtCW, FAKK 2, and on and on) incredibly easy to port. You know that Omni ported those games actually in a day to OS X.
B U T Omni also could always use the mac os 9 code which helped a lot. you can see that in the case of Giants, which needed some months to be ported - there was no OS 9 version.
So, UT was meant NOT to be ported. Easily because the mac market was no target market for the publisher, because the mac market is not profitable. So, they have written it very fast, this means they have tied the games to windows. It uses Direct3D and Glide for example as 3D APIs, BOTH do not exist in OS X, nor in OS 9 (you can count out Glide....). you have luck you can play online, since it does not use DirectPlay. This game was (if you ask glenda ([email protected]) a hell of difficult to port and it is very difficult to port it to OS X. Ask Glenda for details, she will be happy to tell you.

Oh, and I think as far as your arguments are concerned, we can count on you to be not older than 10 anyway.

Steve

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Brad Oliver:
<STRONG>

What you fail to notice is that these companies don't have nearly the workload. How many titles does iD crank out a year? Blizzard? There's also a big difference between the UT engine and the Q3 engine. Q3 was designed and meant to be easily ported. UT was not. About the only thing they have in common is that they are 3D engines.

Brad</STRONG>

I'm growing tired of hearing all your pathetic replies (Brad's replies included)...but this last quote can't go unheeded.

You're not the real Brad Oliver are you? The real Brad Oliver is much smarter than this.

iD *MAKES* games. Blizzard *MAKES* games. These companies don't have nearly the workload MY ASS! Westlake ports games. They don't make games. Heck, I could port some games with my basic programming knowledge. I'd need to get lots more skills to port a game as complex as UT but the less complex games I would certainly be able to port. But needless to say, it's much, MUCH easier to port a game than to build it from scratch and coordinate the project.

Brad Oliver...you make me laugh. And the respect I had for you and MacMAME is gone. You probably don't care that I've lost respect for you...or maybe you do but won't admit it. Either way, there are some better programmers out there...you're not one of them.

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

[jcadam]

once UT runs good under OS X, I'll have no reason to boot into OS9. Actually, I could probably remove it from my machine altogether........

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>

I'm growing tired of hearing all your pathetic replies (Brad's replies included)...but this last quote can't go unheeded.

You're not the real Brad Oliver are you? The real Brad Oliver is much smarter than this.

iD *MAKES* games. Blizzard *MAKES* games. These companies don't have nearly the workload MY ASS! Westlake ports games. They don't make games. Heck, I could port some games with my basic programming knowledge. I'd need to get lots more skills to port a game as complex as UT but the less complex games I would certainly be able to port. But needless to say, it's much, MUCH easier to port a game than to build it from scratch and coordinate the project.

Brad Oliver...you make me laugh. And the respect I had for you and MacMAME is gone. You probably don't care that I've lost respect for you...or maybe you do but won't admit it. Either way, there are some better programmers out there...you're not one of them.

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]</STRONG>

Does UT X use OpenGL as opposed to RAVE (gag, puke)?
The OpenGL version of UT on the PC is still considered 'Beta' and people are encourage to use Direct3D (ever tried to program in Direct3D, it's freakin insane).

OpenGL programs should be fairly easy to port (esp. if they use GLUT, which you really shouldn't use if you want performance), only the program-specific code for each GUI windowing system, sound, input device, etc. would need to be messed with......

Then again, I've written programs in OpenGL that ran fine on the SGI I coded on, then re-compiled and ran fine on a mac w/ OS X, ran fine on a Linux PC, but totally didn't work on a windows PC.

[seanyepez]

Losing a game isn't worth getting worked up about. However, the company owes it to its customers to port the release over. By releasing the game, it pledges support to the platform.

[blizzard]

They don't pledge UNLIMITED support, though. It's not Westlake's responsibility to do any of this; their responsibility ended as soon as the game was released and the contract ended. All the patches and future support are goodwill only. Whether some people in here want to believe it or not, Glenda Adams, Brad Oliver, any one of the people who have ever ported a game, none of them OWES any of us anything. And by complaining and insulting them, the only thing you are accomplishing is the possible end of this support (remember Half-Life?).

Keep up the good work, guys, and try not to let these types of people be representative of the community at large. The majority of us appreciate the work you do.

[Adam Betts]

Guy, **** off! Get yourself some large milk bottle. You'll need it for sure.

If your not happy with the status of games on OS X, then I would highly recommend you to switch to the dark side where there's more choices of crap games.

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
<STRONG>Guy, **** off! Get yourself some large milk bottle. You'll need it for sure.

If your not happy with the status of games on OS X, then I would highly recommend you to switch to the dark side where there's more choices of crap games.</STRONG>

LOL!

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Guy Incognito:
<STRONG>
Either way, there are some better programmers out there...you're not one of them.

[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]</STRONG>

There are smarter people out there... you're not one of them.

You probably don't care that I've lost respect for you...or maybe you do but won't admit it.

Don't flatter yourself.

I'm growing tired of hearing all your pathetic replies (Brad's replies included)...but this last quote can't go unheeded.

Look who's talking. Your say you don't care about this game but yet you feel so inclined to argue about it. You said you don't have the time to play UT. IMO you have plenty of time seeing all the post you have replied to. Honestly no one cares if you care. Yours sad insults accomplish nothing and all your doing is destroying the Mac community. Oh and if you could be so great and port us UT X, be my guest. If you would have to study up on it more go ahead, you can't seem to wait or even comprehend what's involved so why don't you do it yourself? Go ahead and insult me and the others, it only shows how much of a fool you are.

Aragorn

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by &lt;Aragorn&gt;:
<STRONG>

Look who's talking. Your say you don't care about this game but yet you feel so inclined to argue about it. You said you don't have the time to play UT. IMO you have plenty of time seeing all the post you have replied to. Honestly no one cares if you care. Yours sad insults accomplish nothing and all your doing is destroying the Mac community. Oh and if you could be so great and port us UT X, be my guest. If you would have to study up on it more go ahead, you can't seem to wait or even comprehend what's involved so why don't you do it yourself? Go ahead and insult me and the others, it only shows how much of a fool you are.

Aragorn</STRONG>

Hehe, coming from some unregistered idiot...I'm flattered.

Hehe, coming from some unregistered idiot...I'm flattered.

Like I said you have no arguments that have any meaning. You just have to resort to insults. Pretty sad when that's the best argument you can pull.

Aragorn

[Guy Incognito]

Originally posted by &lt;Aragorn&gt;:
<STRONG>

Like I said you have no arguments that have any meaning. You just have to resort to insults. Pretty sad when that's the best argument you can pull.

Aragorn</STRONG>

Where are your arguments? At least I had an argument (even if it was a poor one that had no meaning.)

Insulting people is so fun.

[blizzard]

I sense a peculiar lack of direction to this argument. Might I suggest a return to the question at hand, or at least the ability of this tired old dog of a thread to die a peaceful death? Thanks in advance for your help.

Sounds cool to me. Lets just let this die and forget it.

Aragorn

Wow an interestingly vitriolic thread! Well at least on one person�s part

Here�s the real story on UT X. I work on it in my spare time. I know the UT engine on Mac better than any one else on the planet (with the possible exception of Ken Cobb also at Westlake). The loading bug is very non-trivial, and I�ve thrown every trick I�ve learned in 15 years debugging games at it. I�ll be the first to admit if I worked on it full time I would have had it fixed by now. But the time I can work (an hour here and there, or a weekend) hasn�t proven enough to fix it. As to giving the source to some other company to port, it�s not going to happen. Epic & MacSoft are extremely pleased with Westlake�s performance on the Unreal engine port. To even suggest someone could just whip out a port from the PC code is laughable. The original Unreal took a team of highly experienced Mac programmers two programmer-years to port. This game is the most complicated code I�ve seen in 15 years and 40+ games.

As far as �whining�, all I am doing is letting people know where the game is. It still isn�t fixed. I�ve tried a lot of things and nothing has worked. I could take the tact of other developers and just not say anything for 3 months, and let the users wonder. But I figure the vast majority of gamers would like to hear what is going on, even if it�s the same news for three months.

I haven�t read a good flame war in a while, and I have to say �Guy� , you are a pretty decent troll. Your biggest fault is wandering into the technical areas out of your depth- facts are too easy to refute. Stick with name calling and wild unsubstantiated claims like �Omni could port UT to X in 5 minutes, and serve me a hamburger at the same time!�.

Why am I bothering to post to this thread? Mostly I'm just bored on a late Monday night. And no, I don�t feel like working on UT X tonight And I�ve been having such a great week, even reading some guy�s nasty posts doesn�t phase me right now.

Thank you Glenda for all your hard work. Keep it up!

Aragorn

[seanyepez]

Originally posted by &lt;Aragorn&gt;:
<STRONG>Thank you Glenda for all your hard work. Keep it up!

Aragorn</STRONG>

That added to the thread immensely! Thanks!

[Guy Incognito]

Well you all have fun waiting for the game now.

Thank you, Glenda, for sharing how difficult it is to port UT to OS X. I also hope you have fun not working on the game.

Frankly, I think Westlake has a lack of OS X knowledge. I haven't seen one good carbon port come out of Westlake yet...you guys know your sh!t when it comes to OS 9 but you haven't a clue when you're coding for OS X. I think Westlake can be compared to GraphSim when it comes to OS X...terrible, slow ports with lots of bugs. I would have been happy with ST: Elite Force if Omni had been aloud to release their port.

Anyhoo, feel free to disagree.

btw, is RTCW carbon or cocoa? I thought Graeme Devine was working on it at some point...if Devine was working on it, it should have been cocoa or some Core OS X components since he took over the Quake 3 for OS X project from Omni. I'm rather amused that there are carbon and cocoa versions of the Q3 engines...seems like a lot of precious man-power is being wasted.

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Guy Incognito ]

RTCW is carbon. Graeme is working closely with Westlake from what I've heard.

Aragorn

[Leonard]

Originally posted by blizzard:
<STRONG>I sense a peculiar lack of direction to this argument. Might I suggest a return to the question at hand, or at least the ability of this tired old dog of a thread to die a peaceful death? Thanks in advance for your help.</STRONG>

I too was hoping that this thread would die... that's why I stopped responding to it. It's gotten way off the original track and has just become a flame email. But, just when it's about to reach the bottom of the list it comes back, just like Arnold Swarznegger.

I would like to say, though, that I do appreciate Glenda's work on UT X. Even if I get RTCW, I'm still going to play UT X every now and then when the load bug gets fixed.

Okay, you can go back to flaming each other and the rest of the world...

i'm a lurker. never post much. but this thread made me want to vomit all over guy incognito. he obviously didn't get enough attention as a child. he finds insulting people to be "fun." i've found that people who insult do so because they themseleves have been victims of insults. ie, this is what he (or she) learned from whatever limited social interaction they have had, and therefore don't know any better. probably has a small d1ck, too.

Guy Incognito, you are the weakest link. Goodbye

[blizzard]

*sigh*

OK, I think that'll be about enough of that. Guy's made his point, as have those who choose to flame him. Between that and the fact that two of the strongest programmers the Mac community have posted their thoughts on the subject....I think this has gone as far as it deserves to go.

Nighty night.