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Maintenance without root password
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bkb
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Jan 12, 2005, 12:13 PM
 
I'm trying to help a friend who'se iMac at work keeps freezing. I figured I'd start with the basic maintenance procedures. However, her IT guy refuses to give her the root password. So far, I've found that she can hold command+s at startup to get into SU mode and run fsck, but how does she repair permissions and run the periodic scripts from there? 'periodic daily weekly monthly' fails, and I don't know the command to repair permissions from the terminal. Also: is there a way to run the hardware test without the CD?

Are there any other options?

Thanks,
BKB.
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Turnpike
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Jan 13, 2005, 01:42 AM
 
isn't there a way you can change the admin password from the CD?

I don't know if this will work if root is enabled or not... I've never messed with a system that has root enabled...
     
bkb  (op)
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Jan 13, 2005, 11:33 AM
 
Originally posted by Turnpike:
isn't there a way you can change the admin password from the CD?

I don't know if this will work if root is enabled or not... I've never messed with a system that has root enabled...
I believe there is, as long as there isn't an Open Firmware Passoword (which can be over come by zapping PRAM a couple times and some other things...). But the person I am trying to assist doesn't have the CD nor the root password, hence my last question, "is there a way to run the hardware test without the CD? ".

Thanks.
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Turnpike
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Jan 13, 2005, 08:11 PM
 
I think without a CD, there isn't much you can do. As you've already found, periodic won't work unless run with privileges, Disk utility never asks me for permission to run, though... so you should be able to run that without trouble.

Any OS CD will do... you don't necessarily need the ones that came with the computer. So if she's running Panther and you have some Panther disks at home, you could use yours. If you have a powerbook handy, you could boot her machine from firewire target disk mode to do some of the basic maintenance, such as repairing permissions and the disk. You could also run some of the 3rd party stuff off of that machine. Remember, you can boot off of an iPod, too, if you installed stuff on there to help troubleshoot (although doing this frequently will be bad for the iPod...).

You could download... what is it, BootCD? I think that would let you start up from the CD to make running some 3rd party troubleshooting apps a little more effective.

Bottom line, you're either going to have to do what you can without the password and leave it at that, change the password from an OS CD (and risk pissing off her IT guy... he won't be happy when he finds the password is different.. but she could feign ignorance), or use some utility to crack a password... which is probably illegal to do on her work computer, and the IT guy would definitely throw a fit... if he found out. I'd do whatever maintenance I could without the password... meaning at the very least boot from a different volume and repair the disk. Talk to the IT guys again, and if they still refuse to either a) look at it and fix it pronto, or b) give the password, I'd whip out an OS CD and change the password. Do whatever other maintenance you want to do that you couldn't do before, and then tell your friend to pretend she doesn't know you did anything of the sort if they ask.


Also, depending on the nature of the freeze, other things might be in order, eg swapping RAM, making a clean user folder (will need admin privs for this), et cetera.


Good luck
     
utidjian
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Jan 13, 2005, 08:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Turnpike:
Talk to the IT guys again, and if they still refuse to either a) look at it and fix it pronto, or b) give the password, I'd whip out an OS CD and change the password. Do whatever other maintenance you want to do that you couldn't do before, and then tell your friend to pretend she doesn't know you did anything of the sort if they ask.
I agree with just about everything you said but this last bit. If the company she works for owns the laptop or leases it or whatever, neither she nor anyone else that isn't authorized by the company should alter the laptop or circumvent the admin password. Obviously it could get her fired. Asking her to feign ignorance is asking her to lie.

If the IT staff can't or won't fix the laptop then she should go through the channels and get permission to let someone else fix it.

If the laptop belongs to her... then have at it.
-DU-...etc...
     
Rainy Day
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Jan 13, 2005, 09:32 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
I'm trying to help a friend who'se iMac at work keeps freezing. I figured I'd start with the basic maintenance procedures. However, her IT guy refuses to give her the root password.
Well then it's the IT guy's responsibility to fix it. Call him up and make him earn his pay.

Seriously. It's his job, and you shouldn't try to do it for him. If he doesn't want to fix it, or won't, or whatever, then that's something your friend should take up with her boss. My experience in the corporate world is that it is far better to let the corporate system fail rather than fix it unofficially. If you fix it under the table, then they don't know their system is broken and they won't try to fix it. If they have an IT guy who is trying to build a little empire, your doing an end-run around him won't help improve your friend's work environment. And if he's only trying to do his job, then you really need to let him do his job. Either way, you shouldn't be involved.

There are other ways to impress your friend. Try flowers... or offer to buy her a drink after a hard day at the office and a shoulder to cry on. Listen to her rather than try to fix her problems for her. That's probably all she really wants anyhow.

So far, I've found that she can hold command+s at startup to get into SU mode and run fsck,
Yes, but since fsck is run automatically every time MacOS X boots, there really isn't much point in that.

but how does she repair permissions
Permissions can be repaired from the HD; doesn't require the CD. But repairing permissions is somewhat overrated. Doesn't do as much as most people want to believe (at least, that is, if the user hasn't been playing around in the Terminal and messing things up with chmod).

and run the periodic scripts from there? 'periodic daily weekly monthly' fails,
The scripts just do a little housekeeping; not going to affect machine stability.

and I don't know the command to repair permissions from the terminal.
One should never mess with the Terminal on a Mac which is not their own unless they are an expert!

Bottom line is: you shouldn't be doing anything to your friend's work computer. Leave that job to the IT guy. Getting involved can only go badly for your friend, and that will jeopardize any relationship you hope to have with her.
     
bkb  (op)
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Jan 14, 2005, 12:15 PM
 
Thanks for your feedback.

Originally posted by Turnpike:
Any OS CD will do... [...]

You could download... what is it, BootCD? [...]

Bottom line [...]

Also, depending on the nature of the freeze, [...]
Some interesting ideas to look into.

Originally posted by utidjian:
If the IT staff can't or won't fix the laptop then she should go through the channels and get permission to let someone else fix it.
It's an old iMac. But won't this upset the IT staff anyway, by making them look inept?

Originally posted by Rainy Day:
There are other ways to impress your friend. Try flowers... or offer to buy her a drink after a hard day at the office and a shoulder to cry on. Listen to her rather than try to fix her problems for her. That's probably all she really wants anyhow.

[...]

Getting involved can only go badly for your friend, and that will jeopardize any relationship you hope to have with her.
LOL - you're too much. "I fixed your computer now will you sleep with me ."

Yes, but since fsck is run automatically every time MacOS X boots, there really isn't much point in that.


I thought fsck was only run if you hold Shift when booting up?

Bottom line is: you shouldn't be doing anything to your friend's work computer. Leave that job to the IT guy.
I see, but then I have to hear things like "in my experience, Macs are much more unstable than PCs" and "my Mac crashes at least twice a day, I can't stand them". As a Mac lover I just can't sit on the sidelines and watch this happen. Don't get me wrong: I know there is a risk involved here. And an unstable computer is clearly better than unemployment. But what if one day I find myself in a similar situation. I want to know my options.

A related issue is that I've often come across people who would be better off on a Mac but don't know it. I often encourage them to go Mac and sometimes they buy one. When they have problems with the switch, they come to me. One user's PB took 5 minutes to boot up from the login window to the Finder, and lost Bluetooth support. Another didn't know how to import .PSTs into Entourage. Another got affected by the Stuffit Expander launch bug. I've learnt a great deal fixing mine and other people's computer problems. I enjoy showing people how insanely great these computers are - and I often voluteer help. In general, would you say that this is a good thing, or is it better not to get involved at all? What are the criteria here?
( Last edited by bkb; Jan 14, 2005 at 12:23 PM. )
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utidjian
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Jan 14, 2005, 12:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Rainy Day:
Permissions can be repaired from the HD; doesn't require the CD. But repairing permissions is somewhat overrated. Doesn't do as much as most people want to believe (at least, that is, if the user hasn't been playing around in the Terminal and messing things up with chmod).
If she is a "regular user" (not an admin) then, theoretically, there is nothing she can do that will alter permissions in the first place outside of her home folder. Repair permissions will not touch anything inside her home folder. In short... unless repair permissions has never been run since extra software has been added by the IT guy then that will not fix her problem(s) now or in the future.


One should never mess with the Terminal on a Mac which is not their own unless they are an expert!
Oh pshaw... If one is a "regular user" (not an admin) there is nothing one can do to a Mac via the Terminal to mess it up that one can't do via the GUI... "expert" or not.

Other than that I totally agree.
-DU-...etc...
     
utidjian
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Jan 14, 2005, 02:27 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
It's an old iMac. But won't this upset the IT staff anyway, by making them look inept?
Duh... sorry, dunno why I got the idea it was a laptop. If, as you say, this is an "old iMac" then presumably they have been supporting it all along and should know something about Macs. Is she the only Mac user there?

I know one can run Mac OS X on pre-flatpanel G3 iMacs but from my experience the user experience sucks, freezes or not. If it is one of the newer iMac FP G4s then it should run Mac OS X perfectly AND have a good user experience.

The trick here is to get the IT staff to fix or replace her Mac. It could even be that the problem is with how she uses the machine or her preferences and not something the IT staff has or has not done. Have you tried trashing any of her .plist files yet? If you had the admin password and could run all the little fixes you think the IT staff hasn't tried yet and the Mac still freezes does that mean that you are inept? It could be some flaky hardware that even the hardware test CD won't uncover. These things happen.

If the freezing problems with her iMac are such that it is significantly impeding her ability to do her job then she has to explain this to the IT staff. If they still can't/won't help here then she should go through the appropriate channels and to hell with the IT staffs feelings. Let her supervisor worry about their feelings.

I see, but then I have to hear things like "in my experience, Macs are much more unstable than PCs" and "my Mac crashes at least twice a day, I can't stand them". As a Mac lover I just can't sit on the sidelines and watch this happen. Don't get me wrong: I know there is a risk involved here. And an unstable computer is clearly better than unemployment. But what if one day I find myself in a similar situation. I want to know my options.
Usually when people who actually use Macs say things like that they are telling the truth. Why would they not? It may be that the reasons are beyond their (or your) control.

The same is true if you are in a similar situation as your friend. Even if you know more about troubleshooting a system than the IT guys you still shouldn't bypass their security. Instead try to make some suggestions. Depending on how you do it... even the most inept IT support staff with sensitive egos are willing to learn a thing or two.
-DU-...etc...
     
Rainy Day
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Jan 14, 2005, 03:15 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
It's an old iMac. But won't this upset the IT staff anyway, by making them look inept?
Bingo!

I thought fsck was only run if you hold Shift when booting up?
No, every time. The only time it's not done on startup is if you boot into single-user, or from a CD-ROM. Check out /etc/rc.boot if you don't believe me.

I see, but then I have to hear things like "in my experience, Macs are much more unstable than PCs" and "my Mac crashes at least twice a day, I can't stand them". As a Mac lover I just can't sit on the sidelines and watch this happen. Don't get me wrong: I know there is a risk involved here. And an unstable computer is clearly better than unemployment. But what if one day I find myself in a similar situation. I want to know my options.
Well, first off, what is she calling a crash? Is it just some M$ app freezing up and quitting? Or is it a real crash requiring a reboot? And does it really require a reboot? Or is it just �user head gap�? If she's a Windoze fan, she may not know any better and reboot when she doesn't need to. Many things are possible here, so you should not assume that what she calls a crash really is a bona fide crash.

One way to get to the bottom is to look at /var/log/system.log. Look for what was happening just before the system was restarted to see what may have caused the crash.

If it really, truly is an unstable Mac, there's a good chance it's an HD problem. Even though fsck is run automatically on startup, sometimes running it a second time is useful. As you know, you can do that manually from single user mode without the need to know an admin password. Also, since this is an older iMac, it will boot to OS 9 (which essentially has root access to the HD). You can run Disk First Aid from there. Although Disk First Aid is unlikely to fix anything which fsck won't, it can't hurt to try.

More likely, however, the problem at this point of the diagnosis is a directory problem, and Disk Warrior can fix whatever might be wrong with a directory. It can be run from OS 9 too. If you don't have Disk Warrior, you really should. Every Mac user needs it, IMO. Forget Norton. Piece of crap. In fact, it once hosed an HD of mine. It turned a marginally bad HD which would still mount into an HD which wouldn't mount at all. I eventually was able to undo the damage Norton had done after manually tinkering with the disk's Volume Table of Contents with a sector editor. Once i got the HD that far, Disk Warrior fixed the rest.

A related issue is that I've often come across people who would be better off on a Mac but don't know it. I often encourage them to go Mac and sometimes they buy one. When they have problems with the switch, they come to me. One user's PB took 5 minutes to boot up from the login window to the Finder, and lost Bluetooth support. Another didn't know how to import .PSTs into Entourage. Another got affected by the Stuffit Expander launch bug. I've learnt a great deal fixing mine and other people's computer problems. I enjoy showing people how insanely great these computers are - and I often voluteer help. In general, would you say that this is a good thing, or is it better not to get involved at all? What are the criteria here?
I think it's perfectly fine to help people. I draw the line in a situation you described previously where your friend has IT support and they obviously want to maintain control over their computers (i.e. absolutely no Admin access for users, etc.). In that situation, you're dealing with the larger issue of corporate politics. But even there there is a grey area nonetheless. I think you might be able to justify running fsck from single user mode, or Disk First Aid or Disk Warrior from OS 9. Absolutely under no circumstances should you be changing root or admin passwords, etc. But it is a grey area and not without risk of political fallout. I would be extremely cautious.

Originally posted by utidjian
One should never mess with the Terminal on a Mac which is not their own unless they are an expert!
Oh pshaw... If one is a "regular user" (not an admin) there is nothing one can do to a Mac via the Terminal to mess it up that one can't do via the GUI... "expert" or not.
This is not true. The original poster was talking about booting into single user mode. That's root. Not only is it root, it's root at a lower SecureLevel! More damage can be done in SU mode than in root under multi-user mode!

But even as a non-root, non-sudo user in multi-user mode, it is still much easier to inadvertently delete or modify files in the Terminal than from the GUI. The GUI has all sorts of safety nets which the CLI simply doesn't have. And there are things which you can do from the CLI for which there are no GUI equivalents.
     
Hal Itosis
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Jan 14, 2005, 03:26 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
So far, I've found that she can hold command+s at startup to get into SU mode and run fsck, but how does she repair permissions and run the periodic scripts from there? 'periodic daily weekly monthly' fails, and I don't know the command to repair permissions from the terminal.
In order for permissions repair and the cron scripts to work, I believe the filesystem needs to be mounted first. (The command for doing that is printed right in the single-user screen). Once mounted using that command, perms can be repaired using this command:

diskutil repairPermissions /

I think.
-HI-
     
bkb  (op)
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Jan 14, 2005, 03:51 PM
 
Originally posted by utidjian:
If, as you say, this is an "old iMac" then presumably they have been supporting it all along and should know something about Macs.


I wouldn't presume that much.

Is she the only Mac user there?


No - her office is largely Mac based.

I know one can run Mac OS X on pre-flatpanel G3 iMacs but from my experience the user experience sucks, freezes or not. If it is one of the newer iMac FP G4s then it should run Mac OS X perfectly AND have a good user experience.


It's an iMac FP G4.

The trick here is to get the IT staff to fix or replace her Mac. It could even be that the problem is with how she uses the machine or her preferences and not something the IT staff has or has not done.


Clearly.

Have you tried trashing any of her .plist files yet?


No, not yet. Which plist would I trash if - for example - taking screenshots often causes freezing?

If you had the admin password and could run all the little fixes you think the IT staff hasn't tried yet and the Mac still freezes does that mean that you are inept?


I am inept regardless. That's why I'm asking questions.

It could be some flaky hardware that even the hardware test CD won't uncover. These things happen.


I've seen this before. A friend of mine had this experience with the new iMac G5. The extended hardware test didn't discover it. He sent it back in - they replaced the motherboard and the problem went away.

If the freezing problems with her iMac are such that it is significantly impeding her ability to do her job then she has to explain this to the IT staff. If they still can't/won't help here then she should go through the appropriate channels and to hell with the IT staffs feelings. Let her supervisor worry about their feelings.


Agreed.

Usually when people who actually use Macs say things like that they are telling the truth. Why would they not? It may be that the reasons are beyond their (or your) control.


I don't see how a person using a iMac that freezes twice a day is telling the truth about Macs? She's telling the truth about a problematic sysem - which IMHO is uncommon, and can be fixed.

The same is true if you are in a similar situation as your friend. Even if you know more about troubleshooting a system than the IT guys you still shouldn't bypass their security. Instead try to make some suggestions. Depending on how you do it... even the most inept IT support staff with sensitive egos are willing to learn a thing or two.
Agreed.
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[APi]TheMan
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Jan 14, 2005, 06:34 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
[BAnother didn't know how to import .PSTs into Entourage.[/B]
I (unfortunately) do a lot of support for Exchange e-mail clients here at my university. One of the things we do pretty often is move people from Outlook 2001 (or older sometimes) to Entourage. The way to move personal folders into Entourage X or 2004 is to move them up to the server (yes, even if you have 10 gigs of them). Once they're on the server you can configure Entourage with your user's account and then pull the folders back down into Entourage.

Note: We have a 50 meg limit for users on our campus, so if they have more than 50 megs of data they are not able to send mail while they're moving the files up, and we make sure to get them back down.
"In Nomine Patris, Et Fili, Et Spiritus Sancti"

     
Rainy Day
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Jan 14, 2005, 07:11 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
It's an iMac FP G4.
I thought you said it was a really old iMac (which i assumed to be a CRT/G3 iMac). The Lamp Shade model isn't that old!

No, not yet. Which plist would I trash if - for example - taking screenshots often causes freezing?
Hmmm... could also be a corrupted system. If trashing plists and running DiskWarrior don't fix, it may need a fresh install of the system (this can be done without affecting the /User folder, btw).

I seriously doubt a hardware problem. Almost always this kind of problem is software related (unless it has cheap third-party RAM; that can cause this kind of problem... and so can a bad power line).
     
bkb  (op)
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Jan 14, 2005, 08:06 PM
 
Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
I (unfortunately) do a lot of support for Exchange e-mail clients here at my university. One of the things we do pretty often is move people from Outlook 2001 (or older sometimes) to Entourage. The way to move personal folders into Entourage X or 2004 is to move them up to the server (yes, even if you have 10 gigs of them). Once they're on the server you can configure Entourage with your user's account and then pull the folders back down into Entourage.

Note: We have a 50 meg limit for users on our campus, so if they have more than 50 megs of data they are not able to send mail while they're moving the files up, and we make sure to get them back down.
Not sure about Exchange, but I did this very easily with an IMAP server very.

You might be interested in applying for MS's .PST Import to Entourage beta (requires 2004).
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bkb  (op)
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Jan 14, 2005, 08:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Rainy Day:
I thought you said it was a really old iMac (which i assumed to be a CRT/G3 iMac). The Lamp Shade model isn't thatold!
I said this:

Originally posted by BKB:
It's an old iMac.
Hmmm... could also be a corrupted system. If trashing plists and running DiskWarrior don't fix, it may need a fresh install of the system (this can be done without affecting the /User folder, btw).
Nothing like a clean install, but that would require root password, unfortunately.

I seriously doubt a hardware problem. Almost always this kind of problem is software related (unless it has cheap third-party RAM; that can cause this kind of problem... and so can a bad power line).
Just wondering - what 'types' of problem are hardware related?

Thanks,
BKB.
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Turnpike
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Jan 15, 2005, 02:45 AM
 
hardware problems generally end in kernel panics... unless you can see something obvious (there is no video going through my video card, et cetera). This isn't 100% accurate, but it's a good start.

Also, things that are very hardware intensive crashing the system is a clue... games, for one, or a large photoshop procedure... both can cause crashes with bad RAM. Word probably won't. Screenshots most definitely will not cause a hardware related crash to come up... unless it is a sign of something different (volume is messed up, so when it tries to save the screenshot it dies) or such.

Is it only screenshots that crash it, or is it just anything? I remember unstable OS 9 systems where just about anything could cause a crash... I remember Dreamweaver (2, I think) was screwed up on my system and touching the edit menu would crash the app, and the app would take down the whole system. If the whole system is going down in X, it is almost ALWAYS a problem with the system, the volume, or hardware. Most apps simply don't have the power to crash the whole thing by accident.

You could try removing the entire preference folder... make a .zip archive of it so you don't lose anything. reboot. If things have fixed themselves, then start moving old prefs in a few at a time (or any other method... I prefer moving in half, then half the remaining, and so on, until I find the problem.. OS 9 extension conflict troubleshooting days...) until you find the problem. If it doesn't fix it, you can rule out anything in the preferences folder and replace everything.

I'm not sure, other library folders might be suspect, too. I had a program called CocoaGestures (I think) installed that caused major problems with some cocoa apps. It supported mouse gestures in all cocoa apps. I removed it (from ~/Library/InputManagers) and everything straightened out. You could check for suspect things in the Library if you have enough experience with Library folders to know what is usually there and what might be some sort of haxie or add-on... if not, don't worry about it.

Can you get any specifics? What happens when it crashes (kernel panic?), what is happening before it crashes (is it always a screenshot? perhaps snapz is installed and causing problems).... does it always happen with certain apps open, or lots of apps open? Does it happen if she's not on the network? Any info you get would help narrow it down.

Good luck.
     
utidjian
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Jan 15, 2005, 05:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Rainy Day:
[B]
Oh pshaw... If one is a "regular user" (not an admin) there is nothing one can do to a Mac via the Terminal to mess it up that one can't do via the GUI... "expert" or not.
This is not true. The original poster was talking about booting into single user mode. That's root. Not only is it root, it's root at a lower SecureLevel! More damage can be done in SU mode than in root under multi-user mode!

But even as a non-root, non-sudo user in multi-user mode, it is still much easier to inadvertently delete or modify files in the Terminal than from the GUI. The GUI has all sorts of safety nets which the CLI simply doesn't have. And there are things which you can do from the CLI for which there are no GUI equivalents.
What I said is true as I said it... In the part of the your post I was responding to you specifically said "the Terminal". You did not say "single user mode". They are both very different things used for different purposes.
Read what I said again (you highlighted it in red). I said "regular user" (not an admin) which also means not root. Single user mode is not the Terminal if you meant the Terminal.app.

I said nothing about which is easier or which has more safety nets. I still say there is nothing that a "regular user" (not an admin) can do with the /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app (just so we know which exact Terminal I am talking about) to screw up their system that they can't do via the GUI. In either interface the worst they can do is delete all the files in their home folder and nothing else. Sure it might take a few extra steps in the GUI but it is still possible. The only thing the GUI uses that the CLI doesn't is the .Trash folder. With a couple more mouseclicks the user can empty their trash. Some admins even set it up so that all users have 'rm' aliased to 'mv !* ~/.Trash' and then they get same outcome as trashing files in the GUI Finder. Many even have the admin users 'rm' aliased to, at least, 'rm -i'.

In most work environments the "regular user" (not an admin) isn't even trusted to maintain their own files. Their home folder and any shared folders are usually kept on (a) central file server(s) and backep up regularly.
-DU-...etc...
     
[APi]TheMan
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Jan 15, 2005, 06:10 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
Not sure about Exchange, but I did this very easily with an IMAP server very.

You might be interested in applying for MS's .PST Import to Entourage beta (requires 2004).
Yeah, it is a little different on Exchange, but yes I'm very interested in that tool. Thanks for the heads up.
"In Nomine Patris, Et Fili, Et Spiritus Sancti"

     
utidjian
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Mahwah, NJ USA
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Jan 15, 2005, 06:26 PM
 
Originally posted by bkb:
No - her office is largely Mac based.


Then it should be easy for them to swap out her iMac for a different one. One with a fresh image of whatever their standard set of apps are.

It's an iMac FP G4.


That isn't "old".

Which plist would I trash if - for example - taking screenshots often causes freezing?


Her job requires that she take screenshots twice a day???

If, as you have hinted, that only certain apps cause the system to freeze I would start with trashing the plists for those specific apps. You can start with the one for screen shots. Should be in '~/Library/Preferences/ByHost/com.apple.ImageCaptureExtension2.<somestring>.plis t'
(or some such)


I don't see how a person using a iMac that freezes twice a day is telling the truth about Macs? She's telling the truth about a problematic sysem - which IMHO is uncommon, and can be fixed.
What I mean was they are most likey telling the truth about their experience with their Mac. I doubt very much they mean all Macs.

Really the simplest thing to do (IMO) at this point is to get her a different iMac. That is what I do when a user where I work has a problem with a Mac that can't be fixed by a short 5 minute visit (and I do mean short). It takes all of 1-2 minutes to swap an iMac off of someones desktop with one with a "fresh" image. If the problem goes away... problem solved. I take the offending Mac back to the lab and I don't even waste the time trying to debug it. I just re-image it and then test it out if there are no problems it goes on the spares shelf.
-DU-...etc...
     
Rainy Day
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Oregon
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Jan 16, 2005, 03:56 PM
 
Originally posted by utidjian:
What I said is true as I said it... In the part of the your post I was responding to you specifically said "the Terminal". You did not say "single user mode". They are both very different things used for different purposes. Read what I said again (you highlighted it in red). I said "regular user" (not an admin) which also means not root. Single user mode is not the Terminal if you meant the Terminal.app.
No, your misunderstanding was in assuming i meant Terminal.app. Had you read more carefully, you would have realized this from the context of the original poster's message (to which i was responding) which reads:
So far, I've found that she can hold command+s at startup to get into SU mode and run fsck, but how does she repair permissions and run the periodic scripts from there? 'periodic daily weekly monthly' fails, and I don't know the command to repair permissions from the terminal.
The terms "Terminal" and "Console," in Unix-speak, roughly translate today into CLI, Terminal.app, or single-user mode. You should never assume "Terminal" might only mean "Terminal.app".

I still say there is nothing that a "regular user" (not an admin) can do with the /Applications/Utilities/Terminal.app (just so we know which exact Terminal I am talking about) to screw up their system that they can't do via the GUI. In either interface the worst they can do is delete all the files in their home folder and nothing else. Sure it might take a few extra steps in the GUI but it is still possible.
I certainly understand what you're trying to say. I understood it the last time you said it. But the bottom line is this: for a novice, using the CLI is not as safe as using the GUI (thus my warning that folks should not issue commands they don't understand, particularly on someone else's system!) It doesn't matter that it's possible to do the same amount of damage in the GUI as CLI, what matters is how likely is it?
     
   
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