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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Why Tiger File Management is Awful

Why Tiger File Management is Awful
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TheSpaz
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Dec 15, 2005, 09:47 AM
 
Take a look at this screenshot. I saved a file from Illustrator CS2.

Click Here For Screenshot (Warning: Large Image)

1. Finder thinks it's a PDF Document but, it's really Illustrator.
2. Finder doesn't show the file size until you close and re-open the folder again.
3. The file was created in Illustrator but, has a Preview PDF icon?
4. The "Open With" setting is even correct but, still has a Preview icon
5. Double Clicking the file opens in Illustrator CS2

6. Also, saving an Illustrator document with PDF compatibility turned on creates a file with an Adobe Acrobat Reader icon but, opens in Illustrator.

I wish files worked the same way they used to in Panther. I didn't start having wrong icons before I installed 10.4.3 so I think it's a new bug from 10.4.3.


Does anyone else experience these problems? By the way, I did reset my launch services.
( Last edited by TheSpaz; Dec 21, 2005 at 12:34 PM. )
     
Weyland-Yutani
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Dec 15, 2005, 10:13 AM
 
I concur, the Finder sucks very very much. The zero K file size issue is also something I first noticed with 10.4.3 although not immediately. A coincidence perhaps. Either way it is present in 10.4.3. Funny how one thing breaks when another is fixed.

Granted an OS is more vast than any one app, but even the Apple apps tend to work pretty much bug-free after 3 or 4 revisions. Except OS X and the Finder.

cheers

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cmeisenzahl
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Dec 15, 2005, 10:21 AM
 
I just switched back to Mac last spring, so please pardon the question. Can you expand on how Tiger does this differently from Panther?

Thanks!
Chris
     
CaptainHaddock
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Dec 15, 2005, 10:29 AM
 
I think there's a problem with your Illustrator installation, and it's not assigning creator codes and stuff properly. I don't have the problems you're having in the Finder.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 15, 2005, 10:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock
I think there's a problem with your Illustrator installation, and it's not assigning creator codes and stuff properly. I don't have the problems you're having in the Finder.
My Illustrator installation is brand new... just installed it a few days ago and these bugs have been here even in Illustrator CS1 so it's not my CS2 installation. Also, I work with 2 other pre-press operators and they experience the same exact problems and it annoys them as well. It never used to be like this in Panther, if you saved a file in a certain app, it would only open in that app (and it also had the correct icon).

Ah, Tiger... gotta love it.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Dec 15, 2005, 11:40 AM
 
How come TheSpaz always has odd problems that nobody else has?

Ah, TheSpaz...gotta love ya.

I heard Tiger 10.4.4 will check if user = TheSpaz and install a special version of 10.4.4 for you which will revert you back to 10.3. That'll fix aaaaaaaaaaaall your problems.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 15, 2005, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!
I heard Tiger 10.4.4 will check if user = TheSpaz and install a special version of 10.4.4 for you which will revert you back to 10.3. That'll fix aaaaaaaaaaaall your problems.
I WOULD LOVE THAT! At least then the OS would work correctly. By the way, I'm not the only one with these problems.
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 15, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Keep it civil, will ya. Spaz, if you post images, make sure they comply with the image guidelines! Horsepoo, don't attack users when it is not called for.
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Big Mac
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Dec 15, 2005, 02:22 PM
 
I think Tiger does a pretty decent job maintaining file associations. I don't use Illustrator, but if there's a problem cropping up with its files I would suspect it before blaming the OS. Do you have proof that it's Apple's fault?

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GENERAL_SMILEY
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Dec 15, 2005, 02:38 PM
 
I run Illustrator CS2 & 10.4.3 - I don't see this happening. Does it happen consistently? What happens when you re-associate the file with Illustrator?
I have Mac
     
Tesseract
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Dec 15, 2005, 02:49 PM
 
I've heard of this problem before, though I've never experienced it. It sounds more like Adobe's problem than Apple's.

You may be able to use RCDefaultApp to fix your file associations. (It's a handy utility to have around anyway.)
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 15, 2005, 05:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Tesseract
I've heard of this problem before, though I've never experienced it. It sounds more like Adobe's problem than Apple's.

You may be able to use RCDefaultApp to fix your file associations. (It's a handy utility to have around anyway.)
Thanks, I started using RCDefaultApp and it works rather well.. my only other complaint is... why doesn't it let you choose an earlier version of the App as default? Say I wanna open all .ai files in Illustrator CS1 instead of CS2... Mac OS X and Default App refuses to do it. Pretty lame if you ask me.
     
Chuckit
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Dec 15, 2005, 06:15 PM
 
That is technically accurate. Illustrator files are PDF files, and Illustrator does mark them as such. As someone else said, it looks like Illustrator didn't set the file information properly.

Incidentally, there was a file association bug that was pretty common before Tiger that would cause files to look like the wrong type, but it seems to have disappeared for most people since 10.4, so I'm not sure if this is a regression or what.
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TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 16, 2005, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
That is technically accurate. Illustrator files are PDF files, and Illustrator does mark them as such. As someone else said, it looks like Illustrator didn't set the file information properly.

Incidentally, there was a file association bug that was pretty common before Tiger that would cause files to look like the wrong type, but it seems to have disappeared for most people since 10.4, so I'm not sure if this is a regression or what.
1. I did not have a problem with files opening in the wrong apps in Mac OS X Panther. Panther was flawless (in my opinion) in this area.
2. Since Tiger I've had problems associating files to applications such as telling .eps files to open in Illustrator (it will open any .eps file in Illustrator such as photoshop eps files or in fact... ANY file that has the .eps extension such as disk doubled files will TRY to open in Illustrator even though you get an error because Illustrator cannot recognize it.)
3. Ever since 10.4.3 I've been getting the weird icon problem of the file opening in the correct app but, not actually changing the icon to that App.
4. I've reset all of my Launch Services
5. Technically, Adobe Illustrator files used to be called "Adobe Illustrator Document" in the old Panther Finder, so Tiger's Finder shouldn't call them PDFs.
6. Forcing all PDFs to open in Acrobat Reader will then cause Illustrator files to open in Acrobat Reader too? That's not right.
7. What am I doing wrong that other people are doing right to make my files double-clickable and actually open in the App they were created in AND have the correct icon at the same time... seems pretty bad to me. So, if anyone can tell me what actually changed in Tiger to make my files be stupid, I'd love to know.
8. Even in the Illustrator Save Dialog, .ai files are called "Adobe PDF Document" when you're choosing a Save Format. And in Panther it was called "Adobe Illustrator Document", it's quite annoying cause I always have to double check to see if I'm saving an "Adobe PDF (pdf)" or an "Adobe PDF Document". See screenshot below.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 16, 2005, 03:13 PM
 
Unfortunately, here at work, we do not have any registered versions of Mac OS X Panther, so we cannot downgrade to Panther. If we did, I would definitely suggest to the crew, that we revert back.
     
TETENAL
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Dec 16, 2005, 03:47 PM
 
I don't have this problem with Tiger and Illustrator 10. You don't have to do anything to make this work. It just works correctly out of the box.

My guess would be that your LaunchServices database is messed up for some reason. Try deleting all files called "com.apple.LaunchSErvices-XXXX.csstore" in /Library/Caches and reboot. This will probably fix the issue for you.
     
Apfhex
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Dec 16, 2005, 06:14 PM
 
For me, Illustrator CS2 files are called "PDF Document" (sans "Adobe") when saving from the app (this is what Adobe changed from CS1, where they were called Illustrator CS1 Documents or something like that). The Finder calls these .ai files "Adobe Illustrator Document" and they have the correct CS2 icon and open in Illustrator CS2.

Every other Mac I've used with Illustrator CS2 has behaved the same way.

What you're getting certainly isn't the correct behavior, must be some really bad luck. ><
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Catfish_Man
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Dec 16, 2005, 06:19 PM
 
The wrong icon bug has been around for ages, and is actually a bug in LaunchServices. It shows up quite irregularly though, so I'm not surprised you hadn't seen it before.
     
CharlesS
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Dec 16, 2005, 07:18 PM
 
Maybe you should get your house tested for radioactive materials. It could be possible that whatever is making your brain the way it is might also be affecting your computer.

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mr100percent
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Dec 16, 2005, 11:03 PM
 
For the "Zero KB" bug, I just select and highlight the file, then move up or down in the list, it updates immediately without having to close and re-open the window.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 17, 2005, 12:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Apfhex
For me, Illustrator CS2 files are called "PDF Document" (sans "Adobe") when saving from the app (this is what Adobe changed from CS1, where they were called Illustrator CS1 Documents or something like that). The Finder calls these .ai files "Adobe Illustrator Document" and they have the correct CS2 icon and open in Illustrator CS2.

Every other Mac I've used with Illustrator CS2 has behaved the same way.

What you're getting certainly isn't the correct behavior, must be some really bad luck. ><
You are wrong. I used Illustrator CS 1 at work even before Tiger and the save dialog said "Adobe Illustrator Document" exactly as I typed it. Now, after upgradeing to Tiger, I see that even in Illustrator CS 1 and Illustrator CS 2 (now) says "Adobe PDF Document" and the Finder says it's a PDF Document (in the Finder columns) but, it says "Adobe Illustrator Document" in the Get Info window. I don't understand why there's so many different names for Adobe Illustrator files.

Also, I did mention a few times that I did delete and clear all my Launch Services prefs and cache files and I have tried re-installing Illustrator. Also, if I delete Preview.app and Adobe Acrobat Reader, my files change back to Adobe Illustrator Document.

It just frusterates me that Panther worked so well and Tiger is like a big mess... and I've seen this stuff happening on other people's machines at work and I even went and did an Archive and Install and re-installed all my Apps and it's always the same. I don't know how you people with your configurations are not seeing this happen. It just baffles me.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 17, 2005, 12:40 AM
 
As for now, I am using RCDefault App for my file associations since the Finder can't do it right but, I still have my Illustrator dialog telling me it's a PDF.

Another weird problem is... what happens if I want to change all .ai files to open in Illustrator CS 1? It CANNOT be done, it automatically chooses the latest version of the App Illustrator CS 2. I Get Info on an .ai file and choose Illustrator CS and it quickly reverts back to Illustrator CS2... that doesn't make any sense!!!
     
Kees
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Dec 17, 2005, 06:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz
8. Even in the Illustrator Save Dialog, .ai files are called "Adobe PDF Document" when you're choosing a Save Format. And in Panther it was called "Adobe Illustrator Document", it's quite annoying cause I always have to double check to see if I'm saving an "Adobe PDF (pdf)" or an "Adobe PDF Document". See screenshot below
I donb't know what's up with your Illustartor installation, but mine (version 12.0.1) shows this in OS X 10.4.3:

     
Armas
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Dec 17, 2005, 09:59 AM
 
I confess, I have seen some... less than flawless oddities in Tiger as well... I share your frustrations, in some ways, yet OS 9 used to have issues as well...

I am using Illustrator 10 or 11 ( what's the diff? 7-CS2 -no change! ) and shooting between PhotoShop 7 - not sure how many times, as is my custom... I was shocked, ALL had PDF save as default - in Save, or save as... So I also saved a FEW versions in some xxx.ai.pdf - but if *I* open a PDF I refuse to use Acrobat! Preview uses the PDF engine in the OS - and is 17x faster...
Check what the save as format is ( should still be Illustrator ONLY <and which version compatible with!>, SVG, PDF, and 44 others LOL ) Then it should associate correctly.

Finder is Carbon, sorry, so is 90% illustrator, OS X & Tiger seem to LOVE Cocoa app's - and less & less transparency between code bases. ( As you know, the push for all Cocoa, xcode, so all apps are CPU/OS independent - is a goal which needs to start & end soon.... Adobe uses Code Warrior still...and still lots of 68K code...

Anyway, note PDF save options, and you can control click / Open with/ and choose a new app as default - or get info - and make that a system default for all .ai/PDF/ files....

Don't lose your head!
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OsakaBill
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Dec 17, 2005, 12:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by CaptainHaddock
I think there's a problem with your Illustrator installation, and it's not assigning creator codes and stuff properly. I don't have the problems you're having in the Finder.

You are right gaijin-san!

Going so off topic it is not funny...

So what's up with all of the ex-pats living in Japan posting to these forums lately? I was just reading the discussion about the future of FireWire in Macs and there were messages from an ex pat ALT and now here we have you. What's the deal?

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krove
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Dec 17, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
These are shots from my copy of CS1 installed under 10.4.3.



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mudzilla
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Dec 17, 2005, 04:27 PM
 
spaz, tried updating Illustrator?
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kahuna
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Dec 19, 2005, 10:05 PM
 
as far as getting a file to launch in an app that is not default, it is as easy as dragging the file to the app in the dock and dropping it on top of it. you can choose whichever app you want. illustrator 10, cs1, cs2, photoshop 3, 5, 6, cs whatever. i keep 3 versions of illustrator, 2 versions of quark, and anything else i need in my dock. how quickly we forget how even this works better than in windows
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 19, 2005, 11:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by krove
These are shots from my copy of CS1 installed under 10.4.3.


I realize that I can reset my launch services and it will say EXACTLY that but, here's the problem: If I change my settings to let all .ai files to open in Illustrator, it mysteriously changes the dialog to say "Adobe PDF Document". Right now I'm using RCDefaultApp and it makes my Illustrator say that.

I am also aware that I can drag to the Dock but, I'm constantly switching between projects and I don't like dragging all my files to the icons in the Dock.

Here's the conclusion, if I reset all my launch services and stuff I get a perfect dialog in Illustrator CS and CS2 but, Illustrator 9 files still open in Adobe Acrobat Reader and outsider .ai files are forced to open in Preview by default. With the settings at default, only what I SAVED with MY version of Illustrator will open in that Illustrator... any outside files that are put on my machine that weren't on my machine will open in Preview.app. It's quite frustrating.
     
kahuna
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Dec 20, 2005, 12:01 AM
 
i like the vast majority of mac owners i know, don't want to "work" on their machine everytime they work. if that is what i want to do i would switch to the evil empire (m$). so i try to take in stride every upgrade from cupertino, smile @ their efforts, and anticipate that i will have to conform somehow to some method i don't want to consider. if i have to drag files to the dock to open, so be it. i have made this my prefered modus operandi. i try to not look back after "improvements" in software, simply work around them.
     
Catfish_Man
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Dec 20, 2005, 02:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by kahuna
i like the vast majority of mac owners i know, don't want to "work" on their machine everytime they work. if that is what i want to do i would switch to the evil empire (m$). so i try to take in stride every upgrade from cupertino, smile @ their efforts, and anticipate that i will have to conform somehow to some method i don't want to consider. if i have to drag files to the dock to open, so be it. i have made this my prefered modus operandi. i try to not look back after "improvements" in software, simply work around them.
Meanwhile, I'll be noting bugs (such as launchservices getting confused), filing bug reports (bugreport.apple.com), finding workarounds (deleting the launchservices cache), and writing software to fill in holes (nothing for this particular case). Have fun with your way, though
     
Steve
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Dec 20, 2005, 02:41 AM
 
I'm downgrading my DP 2.7 G5 from Tiger back down to Panther, after having a ton of Finder problems. It's main purpose is for video editing and production, which it was doing a fine job of until the upgrade to Tiger.

The Finder will randomly lock up, with a spinning beach ball for 10 minutes. It also doesn't display file information correctly, will unmount external hard drives, and a ton of other oddities.

After initially "upgrading" from Panther to Tiger and having similar issues, I thought that a format/reinstall would fix it. But, it hasn't, so it's back to Panther for me (on the G5 at least).

Just thought I'd weigh in and let readers know that it isn't only TheSpaz that has terrible Finder issues.

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Chuckit
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Dec 20, 2005, 03:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Steve
Just thought I'd weigh in and let readers know that it isn't only TheSpaz that has terrible Finder issues.
Thus far, you're the only one in this thread having terrible Finder issues. TheSpaz seems to have a moderately annoying glitch related to LaunchServices (since, as he noted, it doesn't just occur in the Finder).

After looking into it a little, I think this is a bug in Illustrator. It assigns the same OSType to both .ai files and .pdf files, which makes it ambiguous. Why the problem didn't show up before, I'm not sure. Maybe Panther looked for file extensions before OSTypes while Tiger looks in the opposite order. Anyway, that's what it looks like to me. I hope that sheds some light on the subject.
Chuck
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Steve
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Dec 20, 2005, 03:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Thus far, you're the only one in this thread having terrible Finder issues. TheSpaz seems to have a moderately annoying glitch related to LaunchServices (since, as he noted, it doesn't just occur in the Finder).
You're right. I should have posted this in its own thread, but after quickly skimming the thread, it seemed appropriate to post it here.

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Apfhex
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Dec 20, 2005, 04:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by TheSpaz
You are wrong. I used Illustrator CS 1 at work even before Tiger and the save dialog said "Adobe Illustrator Document" exactly as I typed it.
Oops, you're probably right... I was thinking about something else. I haven't used that version since I got CS2 in May.

Just for reference here's what my Illustrator CS2 v12.0.1 documents looks like when I save them in OS X 10.4.3...

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TETENAL
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Dec 20, 2005, 04:57 AM
 
For those of you, who have CS2: What is the HFS file-type of Illustrator files saved with that version?
     
Chuckit
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Dec 20, 2005, 05:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL
For those of you, who have CS2: What is the HFS file-type of Illustrator files saved with that version?
Bet you it's 'PDF', because that's the exact same save dialog I get in CS1. Which is what I was talking about when I said it overloads the 'PDF' type.
Chuck
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TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 20, 2005, 11:12 AM
 
Well, gosh darnit! Why doesn't Adobe follow the Apple programming guidelines and actually make their software more compatible with the Mac OS. A lot of my problems come from using Adobe Apps and being related to the Finder. Here's the Apps I use at work.

Illustrator CS
Illustrator CS2
Indesign CS
Indesign CS2
Photoshop CS
Photoshop CS2
Adobe Acrobat Reader 7
Quark Express 6
Suitcase X1

There's something in the way Apple changed the Finder to handle files differently because I didn't have these file association problems in Panther at all.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 20, 2005, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Thus far, you're the only one in this thread having terrible Finder issues. TheSpaz seems to have a moderately annoying glitch related to LaunchServices (since, as he noted, it doesn't just occur in the Finder).

After looking into it a little, I think this is a bug in Illustrator. It assigns the same OSType to both .ai files and .pdf files, which makes it ambiguous. Why the problem didn't show up before, I'm not sure. Maybe Panther looked for file extensions before OSTypes while Tiger looks in the opposite order. Anyway, that's what it looks like to me. I hope that sheds some light on the subject.
I think you may be right... that sounds believable to me. I wonder why files can't keep the information about which App they were created in... that way, when I get an email with a .eps file, it opens directly in Illustrator instead of Preview.app. Of course like a few of you have mentioned, I can change the Get Info settings to make all .eps files open in Illustrator but, then Photoshop EPS files will open in Illustrator and that isn't correct.
     
Yose
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Dec 20, 2005, 11:44 AM
 
Have you tried creating a new account and seeing if this problem persists there?

I know it might sound silly... but doing this might answer some questions for you.
Yose.
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TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 20, 2005, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Yose
Have you tried creating a new account and seeing if this problem persists there?

I know it might sound silly... but doing this might answer some questions for you.
Yes, I have. Under a new account, all your launch services are set to default... which brings me back to the beginning again. It doesn't help... it's like you have to have it one way... or the other... can't have both... you know?

You either keep it at default where your documents are assorted in whatever app Mac OS X feels like making it open in... or you change it and then have every PDF compatible document opening in the same App all the time which is also wrong. I just wish it was like Panther again... it's too bad Adobe can't just release an update which fixes this (maybe even throw in .tmp file fix too!)
     
THE MAC GOD
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Dec 20, 2005, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by cmeisenzahl
I just switched back to Mac last spring, so please pardon the question. Can you expand on how Tiger does this differently from Panther?

Thanks!
Chris
One major thing...

Spotlight is beautiful... Files appear instantly...

HOWEVER, try renaming a file. Go ahead... do it in a folder with a lot of items in list/column view.
It will take forever for that item to be resorted into it's correct spot.
It's like this on all the G5's at work and at home. So, it's definitely an OS thing.

Hate that. Panther was immediate.

All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.
     
CharlesS
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Dec 20, 2005, 07:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by THE MAC GOD
One major thing...

Spotlight is beautiful... Files appear instantly...

HOWEVER, try renaming a file. Go ahead... do it in a folder with a lot of items in list/column view.
It will take forever for that item to be resorted into it's correct spot.
It's like this on all the G5's at work and at home. So, it's definitely an OS thing.

Hate that. Panther was immediate.
I agree; that is annoying. However, I think it is deliberate. Windows behaves this way, and they've apparently emulated that in Tiger. Apparently they think that the file jumping around like that could confuse the user or something, so they made it stay in the same place until after a specified time period. Whatever; it would be nice if there were a way to turn this off...

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Join Date: Nov 2003
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Dec 21, 2005, 12:26 PM
 
Hello folks. I think I have my computer working properly now!!! Lemme tell you how I did it.

Step by step right here:

1. Uninstalled RCDefault App preference pane.
2. Completely delete all launch services files.
3. Restart
4. Install Illustrator 9 (which wasn't previously installed)
5. Installing Illustrator 9 made it so AI9 files were no longer labeled as generic PDF documents.
6. Restarted again (just to be safe)
7. Opened a file in Illustrator and saved it to the desktop (which gave it a Preview PDF icon, I'll get to that in a second)
8. I then used "Get Info" on that document and changed the "Open With" to Preview.app and hit "Change All". Then without closing the Get Info window, I changed it back to Illustrator CS2 and hit "Change All" once again. Now, all Illustrator files saved from Illustrator keep the CS2 icon. YAY!.
9. I repeated step 7 on a PDF document saved from Illustrator, except I changed it to Adobe Acrobat Reader, obviously.

In conclusion, files being saved from Illustrator keep their Illustrator icon and open in Illustrator. Illustrator save dialog correctly says "Adobe Illustrator® Document". So if anyone else is having the problems I was previously having, refer to the above steps for assistance.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 21, 2005, 05:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by THE MAC GOD
One major thing...

Spotlight is beautiful... Files appear instantly...

HOWEVER, try renaming a file. Go ahead... do it in a folder with a lot of items in list/column view.
It will take forever for that item to be resorted into it's correct spot.
It's like this on all the G5's at work and at home. So, it's definitely an OS thing.

Hate that. Panther was immediate.
How do I get this bug to happen? I tried renaming a file in a very long list view and it immediately jumped into the appropriate spot. Is there something else I need to do?
     
cla
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Dec 21, 2005, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS
Apparently they think that the file jumping around like that could confuse the user or something/.../
That user would be me:
1) Create the folder
2) Locate the folder
3) Rename the folder
4) Relocate the folder, since Finder moves it at the exact point in time when you are about to use it.

The feature took care of point 4. And I miss it.
     
TheSpaz  (op)
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Dec 21, 2005, 09:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by cla
That user would be me:
1) Create the folder
2) Locate the folder
3) Rename the folder
4) Relocate the folder, since Finder moves it at the exact point in time when you are about to use it.

The feature took care of point 4. And I miss it.
Ah... I see what you mean now. Very annoying.
     
Grrr
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Dec 23, 2005, 12:55 PM
 
I think im onto something here folks..


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