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70 Killed in Iraq
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Troll
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Jun 24, 2004, 09:41 AM
 
I just thought I'd post this to remind everyone that less than a week before the occupation officially ends (and one would assume the war then finally ends too), this is the state of security in Iraq!

We seem to have grown blas� about the deaths in Iraq - the deaths of soldiers and civilians.

This was not a country plagued by terrorists before the US came. Was it not Powell who said, "If we break it then we will own it"? June 30 is next Wednesday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3835001.stm
     
phoenixboy70
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Jun 24, 2004, 09:47 AM
 
typical. wack the bees' nest and bail out.

i knew this was going to happen. iraq is going to be a big festering sore and a security risk for years to come.

mission accomplished, - indeed.
     
zachs
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Jun 24, 2004, 10:16 AM
 
"Bring 'em on."

Indeed. And I have a suspicision it isn't going to get any better after June 30th.
     
Zimphire
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Jun 24, 2004, 11:47 AM
 
Originally posted by Troll:
This was not a country plagued by terrorists before the US came.
Yes it was. Iraq was full of them.

Saddam, and his sons being some of them.
     
eklipse
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Jun 24, 2004, 11:55 AM
 
Everything is going according to plan.

- One of the last remaining nationalistic Arab leaders has been deposed.
- One of the most powerful Arab armies in the region has been dismantled.
- One of the most powerful economies in the region has been devastated.
- One of the most proud, educated and advanced Arab peoples are engaged in a civil war that will likely last for decades.
- Oil contracts are secure.
- Israel is safe.


This article from the Washington Post made me laugh: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jun23.html
U.S. Immunity In Iraq Will Go Beyond June 30

By Robin Wright
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 24, 2004; Page A01



The Bush administration has decided to take the unusual step of bestowing on its own troops and personnel immunity from prosecution by Iraqi courts for killing Iraqis or destroying local property after the occupation ends and political power is transferred to an interim Iraqi government, U.S. officials said.

The administration plans to accomplish that step -- which would bypass the most contentious remaining issue before the transfer of power -- by extending an order that has been in place during the year-long occupation of Iraq. Order 17 gives all foreign personnel in the U.S.-led Coalition Provisional Authority immunity from "local criminal, civil and administrative jurisdiction and from any form of arrest or detention other than by persons acting on behalf of their parent states."

....

In Baghdad, U.S. officials have been engaged all week with interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and national security adviser Mowaffak Rubaie. Both sides hope to finalize the terms before Bush leaves for the NATO summit in Istanbul at week's end, U.S. and Iraqi officials said.

The administration is taking the step in an effort to prevent the new Iraqi government from having to grant a blanket waiver as one of its first acts, which could undermine its credibility just as it assumes power. But U.S. officials said Washington's act could also create the impression that the United States is not turning over full sovereignty -- and giving itself special privileges.

The administration's move comes when issues of immunity are particularly sensitive, in light of the scandal over the abuse of U.S. detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yesterday at the United Nations, the administration, citing opposition on the Security Council, withdrew a resolution that would have extended immunity for U.S. personnel in U.N.-approved peacekeeping missions from prosecution before the International Criminal Court.

...
America can't get immunity from prosecution at the UN, so it decides to 'bestow' (with the support of it's freshly installed government of course) immunity on itself in a newly 'liberated' and 'free' (allegedly) country. Brilliant!

Nice to know that Allawi is playing the good puppet too,
     
Troll  (op)
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:19 PM
 
And in an effort to improve security, the US just fired 30,000 policemen!
     
PacHead
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:28 PM
 
Let me know when the amount of people killed surpasses that which Saddam was responsible for.

Maybe you guys would have an argument, if you come back and make your points, in about 50 years. That's probably how long it would take at the current rate.

     
Troll  (op)
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:28 PM
 
Sorry, one more thing. If this thread was about ONE American civilian having been beheaded we'd be on page 3 by now. But it's about 60 odd Iraqis, 3 American soldiers and a handful of others so comparatively few care.

I wonder what message the comparative lack of interest sends to the Insurgents. Cut off one head and you'll make headlines for three weeks. Kill 70 locals with a bomb and you'll be lucky if Euro 2004 doesn't knock you off the front page before tea.

One might argue that it's better to encourage them to cut one head off a week than to kill 70 a week with bombs. Unfortunately, it seems their aim is to prevent collaboration with the occupation and the puppet government it has installed rather than just media attention so they seem committed to killing policemen with the resultant collateral damage.
     
eklipse
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:31 PM
 
Originally posted by Troll:
And in an effort to improve security, the US just fired 30,000 policemen!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...245926,00.html
Up to 30,000 Iraqi police officers are to be sacked for being incompetent and unreliable and given a $60m payoff before the US hands over to an Iraqi government, senior British military sources said yesterday.

Many officers either deserted to the insurgents or simply stayed at home during the recent uprisings in Falluja and across the south.
ROFL!


They're probably better off for it - who'd wanna be a walking target?
     
Logic
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:31 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Let me know when the amount of people killed surpasses that which Saddam was responsible for.

Maybe you guys would have an argument, if you come back and make your points, in about 50 years. That's probably how long it would take at the current rate.

Does the Iranians killed by in the war count as well? You know since they used US weapons and the US gave them the locations of the Iranians forces. Just trying to make sure how narrow your definition is.

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
Zimphire
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:32 PM
 
Originally posted by PacHead:
Let me know when the amount of people killed surpasses that which Saddam was responsible for.

Maybe you guys would have an argument, if you come back and make your points, in about 50 years. That's probably how long it would take at the current rate.

They will be happy when and if a Democratic president takes over. Then all of a sudden everything will be ok in Iraq. Out of nowhere.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jun 24, 2004, 12:33 PM
 
and in the end, the iraqis will have paid a small price for their freedom.

we should all be so lucky.
     
lil'babykitten
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Jun 24, 2004, 05:44 PM
 
What a sad state of affairs.
     
Logic
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Jun 24, 2004, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
and in the end, the iraqis will have paid a small price for their freedom.

we should all be so lucky.
Who are you to make the decision to sacrifice more than 10 thousand innocent Iraqis for their "freedom"?

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. OBL 29th oct
     
itai195
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Jun 24, 2004, 05:58 PM
 
Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
What a sad state of affairs.
Ditto.
     
Atomic Rooster
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Jun 24, 2004, 06:07 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yes it was. Iraq was full of them.
Zimphire knows because he was there.

( Last edited by Atomic Rooster; Jun 25, 2004 at 12:22 AM. )
     
Dr.HermanG.
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Jun 24, 2004, 06:49 PM
 
About 60 people per day died during Saddam's reign while he was in power. Was that newsworthy?
     
phoenixboy70
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Jun 24, 2004, 06:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
About 60 people per day died during Saddam's reign while he was in power. Was that newsworthy?
apparently not in the us. especially in the 1980s when saddam was "teh good guy�"
     
thunderous_funker
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Jun 24, 2004, 07:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Dr.HermanG.:
About 60 people per day died during Saddam's reign while he was in power. Was that newsworthy?
Odd how that never made it into the national masturbation session over Reagan's Legacy.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
tie
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Jun 24, 2004, 07:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
and in the end, the iraqis will have paid a small price for their freedom.

we should all be so lucky.
Will they end up free? What happens when the US eventually leaves? Will the Iraqi government be able to stand or will it fall to these rebels? Or is the US going to stay there forever?
     
itai195
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Jun 24, 2004, 07:51 PM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Odd how that never made it into the national masturbation session over Reagan's Legacy.
You might not want to mention sexual acts around DrHerman. Just a tip
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jun 24, 2004, 11:41 PM
 
Originally posted by tie:
Will they end up free? What happens when the US eventually leaves? Will the Iraqi government be able to stand or will it fall to these rebels? Or is the US going to stay there forever?
Iraq, as a nation, will stand or fall on its own merits just as it did before its liberation.

I'm not really all that concerned one way or the other.

It only takes a weekend to invade, kick ass, and remove the leadership. Then we can leave again.

Maybe we should just keep doing that until we're satisfied with Iraq.

Ain't nobody gonna stop us.
     
Zimphire
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Jun 25, 2004, 12:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Atomic Rooster:
Zimphire knows because he was there.

( Last edited by Zimphire; Jun 25, 2004 at 03:35 AM. )
     
Zimphire
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Jun 25, 2004, 12:07 AM
 
Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
Odd how that never made it into the national masturbation session over Reagan's Legacy.
Or Clinton when he dies I bet. 8 years of doing basically nothing for Iraq.
     
phoenixboy70
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Jun 25, 2004, 02:46 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Iraq, as a nation, will stand or fall on its own merits just as it did before its liberation.

I'm not really all that concerned one way or the other.

It only takes a weekend to invade, kick ass, and remove the leadership. Then we can leave again.

Maybe we should just keep doing that until we're satisfied with Iraq.
you should hurry up then. come november the us won't have a fascist warmonger as a president any longer.

btw, the us' military supremacy is only possible due to the fact that eurasia (still) sees the us as a benevolent country.

should this ever change, i am sure most civilized countries could produce a nucular arsenal that would easily match that of the former soviet union.

on second thought, people shouldn't even wait that long. i think the south and the mid-west of the us is what really needs to be invaded. that would at least take care of 90% of america's problems.
     
Zimphire
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Jun 25, 2004, 03:36 AM
 
One of these days, Atomic will learn not to steal people's bandwidth.
     
Taliesin
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Jun 25, 2004, 04:02 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Iraq, as a nation, will stand or fall on its own merits just as it did before its liberation.

I'm not really all that concerned one way or the other.

It only takes a weekend to invade, kick ass, and remove the leadership. Then we can leave again.

Maybe we should just keep doing that until we're satisfied with Iraq.

Ain't nobody gonna stop us.
What you suggest is only possible like this Iraq-war, because other arabic and not arabic countries allow the US to use their states as military-bases, like Saudi-Arabia, the small Gulf-states, Israel and Turkey, and Pakistan, and now also Afghanistan, etc...

If all these countries, eventhough most are US-neo-colonies, had decided to not cooperate with the US, it would have been much more difficult for the US to invade Iraq.

Taliesin
     
thunderous_funker
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Jun 25, 2004, 06:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Iraq, as a nation, will stand or fall on its own merits just as it did before its liberation.

I'm not really all that concerned one way or the other.

It only takes a weekend to invade, kick ass, and remove the leadership. Then we can leave again.

Maybe we should just keep doing that until we're satisfied with Iraq.

Ain't nobody gonna stop us.
And who continues to pay for this endless fiasco? You do.

I guess your taxes aren't high enough? National debt not insufferable enough?

I'm tired of faux-patriots bankrupting our nation and mortgaging our future on futile, endless wars that only continually perpetuate the same fundamental errors in judgement.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die." -- Hunter S. Thompson
     
Xeo
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Jun 27, 2004, 12:40 AM
 
Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Iraq, as a nation, will stand or fall on its own merits just as it did before its liberation.

I'm not really all that concerned one way or the other.

It only takes a weekend to invade, kick ass, and remove the leadership. Then we can leave again.

Maybe we should just keep doing that until we're satisfied with Iraq.

Ain't nobody gonna stop us.
Wow, you don't even care about them? Then why do you support paying for it?
     
   
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