[sdilley14]

Ok, so I'm thinking about trading in my Jeep and getting a new vehicle. I have it narrowed down to these two...

Cars for Sale: 2006 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5L in Niles, IL 60714: Sedan Details - 273768944 - AutoTrader.com

Cars for Sale: 2006 Honda Civic EX Sedan in Fond Du Lac, WI 54937: Sedan Details - 265201837 - AutoTrader.com

Reviews on either vehicles? Opinions? Pricing seem fair on both? I'm looking for something with 4 doors, preferably 30+ mpg, has to have a sun roof, and having good style, fit, and finish is important to me. Wanting something reliable, durable, and good at holding resale value goes without saying (but I just said it). And I need something in the price range of both of these vehicles.

What do you think? Anyone own either of these vehicles? How do you like (or dislike) them?

[Laminar]

Only a ****ing idiot would get a ****ing car with a ****ing automatic. ****

[The Final Dakar]

Obvious prediction:This thread will be moderated.

[turtle777]

When it comes to the interior, the Jetta beats the Honda hands down.

The Civic just looks busy and cluttered compared to the Jetta.

-t

[imitchellg5]

Depending on your driving style and routes, you'll probably be pretty hard pressed to get 30 MPG on the Jetta. The Honda will get much better gas mileage and be cheaper to maintain. I'd go for the Honda.

[ort888]

I would get either an SUV or a hybrid.

[sek929]

I personally don't like VWs much at all, everyone I know who owns/owned one had no problems with the drivetrain, but endless crap to deal with regarding mechanical devices like door locks, mirror knobs, dashboard units, etc.

Not huge on the styling of the Honda Civic, I'd rather get a similarly priced Accord.

[sdilley14]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Only a ****ing idiot would get a ****ing car with a ****ing automatic. ****

Hahah, easy big shooter, it'll be ok. I'm not at all interested in driving a manual. Period. I don't care if its more fun, gives you more control, helps on MPG. Don't care, not interested.

[sek929]

Laminar was channeling his inner Rob. I think if you commute enough and spend time in traffic you'd have to be a masochist to buy a manual tranny.

[sdilley14]

I'm looking at getting a similarly priced Accord. Its difficult finding one with the options/mileage I want at the price I'm looking for.

I own an SUV now. I want something with better fuel economy and something that is front wheel drive. My 16 mpg Jeep with rear wheel drive just isn't cutting it in these Wisconsin winters. I have the on-the-fly 4WD, but engaging that knocks the gas mileage down even more. Not good.

As far as hybrids go, trying finding a decent looking hybrid with the options I want for anything less than $20k.

[Railroader]

Of the two I'd pick the Honda. Depending on how long you own it, the VW will be expensive for parts in the future, and that will effect the resale value in the short term.

[dedalus]

***

[sdilley14]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Of the two I'd pick the Honda. Depending on how long you own it, the VW will be expensive for parts in the furutre, and that will affect the resale value in the short term.

I'd keep it for two or three years.

This is a tough choice. I like the looks of the Jetta a bit better, but I get the feeling the Honda is going to hold up better mechanically over time. Also, I'd say 80% of my driving is town/city driving. 10-20 mi. round trip to work every single day, 30-35 mph the entire time, usually hit 2-3 stop lights. So fuel economy in the city is really more important than highway MPG when I look at the big picture.

[sdilley14]

Originally Posted by dedalus 

There is nothing wrong with ****ing automatics. I have been driving cars with ****ing automatics for over a ****ing decade, and even though I come from a racing pedigree, I would never, ever ****ing consider going back to a ****ing manual transmission, at least with a ****ing automatic I can concentrate on the ****ing road. ****.

I hope you recognise the ****ing sarcasm.

My ****ing point exactly! I don't care about being speed racer in town or shifting aggressively or having 100% control over my RPMs. Could care less. I just want to be able to drive in the city with as few distractions as possible.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by sdilley14 

I'd keep it for two or three years.

This is a tough choice. I like the looks of the Jetta a bit better, but I get the feeling the Honda is going to hold up better mechanically over time. Also, I'd say 80% of my driving is town/city driving. 10-20 mi. round trip to work every single day, 30-35 mph the entire time, usually hit 2-3 stop lights. So fuel economy in the city is really more important than highway MPG when I look at the big picture.

The Jetta won't get good mileage in that environment, I would estimate about 22 mpg. A 5 cylinder isn't really advantageous in a small car as far as economy goes. You're right in feeling that the Honda will hold up better, but two or three years isn't really a long time to keep a car, so I guess it probably doesn't matter much. If it comes down to MPGs, then you've gotta get the Civic.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

You're right in feeling that the Honda will hold up better, but two or three years isn't really a long time to keep a car, so I guess it probably doesn't matter much.

Hold up better in value ?

I'm not sure that's right. Both, VW and Honda had the highest resale value of all brands.

Which Brand Has The Best Resale Value?

Honda and VW have best resale values - MotorAuthority

-t

[sdilley14]

I'm leaning towards the Civic at this point. I like the interior quite a bit better on the VW, but city MPG, mechanical dependability, and resale value are more important.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Drove a 2.5L 5-c, 4-dr Rabbit this past weekend. Fit and finish is undeniably superior to the Civic, in pretty much all aspects. Much less cabin noise; speakers sounded far better as a result (but are better anyway). Surprising amount of pep for a car loaded with 4 people and winter gear almost to the roof. Only points I'd give to the Civic would be Honda's wicked design of the backseat footroom, especially in the middle. The way they flattened out the floor is design genius once you notice it.

Mileage on the Volks not as good of course. Overall I liked the Rabbit better than the Civic, and I would prefer it myself. Not sure about the maintenance problems referred to - I was under the impression VW had tried to address that - but over 2-3 years I wouldn't think that would be an issue anyway.

greg

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Hold up better in value ?

I'm not sure that's right. Both, VW and Honda had the highest resale value of all brands.

Which Brand Has The Best Resale Value?

Honda and VW have best resale values - MotorAuthority

-t

As brands, yes. But it seems like, at least here and in Washington State, that Civics hold their value better than Jettas.

[downinflames68]

If you want to save money, get the Honda. Period. VWs are much less reliable. I'm not saying they're bad cars; I'm just saying a honda runs for ****ing ever with mostly just oil changes. Plus they're efficient. Germans, not so much.

[ghporter]

Basically what Rob said, but without the cussing. I had a Civic hatchback for 9 years and the only reason I traded it was that I needed a more spacious back seat. I never even changed a lightbulb on it. Oil, yes, other stuff, not at all. I got a coupe to replace the hatchback and traded that after 5 years for the '07 EX sedan I have now. So yeah, I think you'd do better with the Honda, and spend less time and money on upkeep and repairs too.

[-Q-]

My wife's Honda Civic ran for 13 years without issue. I just spent way too much money this month getting the VW repaired (yes, it's more fun to drive than the Civic for sure). I'd get the Honda.

[olePigeon]

Subarus are solid cars, too.

Just wanna say that if your attention is divided between shifting and driving, then you really shouldn't be driving a manual transmission. Ever.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Basically what Rob said, but without the cussing. I had a Civic hatchback for 9 years and the only reason I traded it was that I needed a more spacious back seat. I never even changed a lightbulb on it. Oil, yes, other stuff, not at all. I got a coupe to replace the hatchback and traded that after 5 years for the '07 EX sedan I have now. So yeah, I think you'd do better with the Honda, and spend less time and money on upkeep and repairs too.

My 11-year old Accord finally had the third brake light burn out... that thing was a sucker to get out of the sun-baked plastic housing

Only bulb that's ever gone out on it (I did replace the headlights with Silverstars, which I HIGHLY recommend for everyone who's car didn't come from the factory with HIDs).

[Macfreak7]

Having driven a Jetta for 2.5 years, I'd go with the VW in a heartbeat. Much better build quality, drive and a much preferred overall simplistic styling. Granted the resale value or mileage might not beat the Civic, but at least it gives you a better reason to get out and drive (I did have a manual and for me that's what actually made it a super fun car).

[sek929]

I'd say better interior quality and materials, but if we are talking about overall build quality then there aren't many cars that can rival a Honda Civic.

[Oneota]

Everyone I've ever known with a VW has had nothing but a parade of problems with them. Not just one or two people. But *everyone.* To me, that's enough to never buy a VW, ever.

[shifuimam]

What about Hyundai?

I've turned into a total Hyundai fan since I got my 05 Tuscon last July. It's a great car, the interior is very nice, and it's much more affordable than similar models from Honda, Toyota, and others.

The Sonatas after 2006 are extremely nice, inside and out, and are very affordable - and you can't beat the warranty.

If you're set on choosing between the Honda and the VW, Count me as a vote for the Honda. I've heard nothing but bad things from VW owners - loads of problems.

Also, tbh, resale value should be the last thing on your list of qualities in a car. It's silly to only drive a car for three or four years, sell it (always at a loss, mind you), and turn around and buy another car. If you buy cars with financing, you're constantly paying off various vehicles. It seems to make a lot more sense to keep a car until it actually needs to be replaced.

[turtle777]

Maybe VW owners are whiners ?

Well, if you want a FUN ride, the Jetta will provide more.
Apparently, it comes at a cost / premium in form of lesser reliability.

For the record, I own a 2004 Jetta and only had minor problems, which were all covered by my warranty.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

It takes skill to come off as indignant when consensus is your car company of choice is unreliable.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

What about Hyundai?

I've turned into a total Hyundai fan since I got my 05 Tuscon last July. It's a great car, the interior is very nice, and it's much more affordable than similar models from Honda, Toyota, and others.

The Sonatas after 2006 are extremely nice, inside and out, and are very affordable - and you can't beat the warranty.

The Elantra (especially the SE) is a very nice ride, with good gas mileage too. The OP could always take a look at that as well.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Maybe VW owners are whiners ?

Well, if you want a FUN ride, the Jetta will provide more.
Apparently, it comes at a cost / premium in form of lesser reliability.

For the record, I own a 2004 Jetta and only had minor problems, which were all covered by my warranty.

-t

I would say that the Civic would be more fun than the Jetta... the 2.5L is quite a grouchy motor if you ask me. Sure it has plenty of torque, but a free revving Honda is much more satisfying.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

What about Hyundai?

If he had asked what car without prefacing a few models I would certainly say get a Hyundai. If you want good mileage, reliability, and good price Hyundai cannot be beat. 10yr/100,000 mile warranty is simply ludicrous.

If I had to buy a car tomorrow it would be a Hyundai.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Hyundai's are a great car for the money but there's a world of difference between a VW and a Hyundai in terms of quality IMO. From design to overall fit and finish the VW wins hands down. Just get in and close your door - it feels solid, not like the "light and cheap" feel you get with cheaper cars in its class. That's just something I happened to notice anyway.

I enjoyed the 2.5 engine in the Rabbit, and like I said we were loaded down with four people and snow gear. I managed to accidentally hit 140kms several times without realizing it. And with much less cabin noise; I find the Civic to be a little annoying in that department.

greg

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

(I did replace the headlights with Silverstars, which I HIGHLY recommend for everyone who's car didn't come from the factory with HIDs).

Silverstars are shit. They put a blue coating on the exterior of the bulb, which reduces light output. Then they overdrive the filament to make up for it, leading to extremely short bulb life. Look up the hours of a silverstar vs regular bulb. If you want more light, do the 9006/9005 mod. That will give you about 50% more light output. Or, if you have projectors, just get HIDs from DDMtuning. $29.99 for the raptor kit. Have a set installed in my Audi, they work great!

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Silverstars are shit. They put a blue coating on the exterior of the bulb, which reduces light output. Then they overdrive the filament to make up for it, leading to extremely short bulb life. Look up the hours of a silverstar vs regular bulb. If you want more light, do the 9006/9005 mod. That will give you about 50% more light output. Or, if you have projectors, just get HIDs from DDMtuning. $29.99 for the raptor kit. Have a set installed in my Audi, they work great!

They do have a shorter lifespan, but I've not had to replace mine yet. Maybe they do put a coating to reduce light, but that's fine by me, since they are so bright anyway. I would agree that a 9006/9005 mod would be the ideal setup, but that's not practical for everyone. Silverstars are a good OEM replacement though that you can pick up in every auto parts store.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

If you want more light, do the 9006/9005 mod. That will give you about 50% more light output. Or, if you have projectors, just get HIDs from DDMtuning. $29.99 for the raptor kit. Have a set installed in my Audi, they work great!

Reference for "the 9006/9005 mod" please. I've seen "HID mod kits" for 9006-equipped cars like the Civic-any feedback on them?

[sdilley14]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

The Elantra (especially the SE) is a very nice ride, with good gas mileage too. The OP could always take a look at that as well.

I have a hard time going with a Hyundai. I had a Tiburon 8-9 years ago and the transmission went to complete crap on it. Ever since that experience I've been really turned off to Hyundai. I've always thought of them as a cheap, "B" grade auto maker. Maybe my perception is wrong though?

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by sdilley14 

I have a hard time going with a Hyundai. I had a Tiburon 8-9 years ago and the transmission went to complete crap on it. Ever since that experience I've been really turned off to Hyundai. I've always thought of them as a cheap, "B" grade auto maker. Maybe my perception is wrong though?

Well, your perception of a Hyundai of that age is correct. But nowadays Hyundai builds some quality stuff. As far as quality of materials, I would rate them higher than Toyota these days (acceleration issues notwithstanding), and some of their products, like the Genesis sedan, are BMW/MB/Lexus quality. They offer a lot of value for the money as well; the Elantra SE comes with a lot of loot for the price (Bluetooth, a very good stereo, etc.).

The bottom line is that if you have your heart set on a Jetta or Civic, you obviously won't need to look at Hyundai. But if you're open to more options, I'd give them a look. Certainly can't hurt anything ;-)

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Reference for "the 9006/9005 mod" please. I've seen "HID mod kits" for 9006-equipped cars like the Civic-any feedback on them?

Sure. You can get HID kits for almost anything. My Audi also uses 9006 bulbs for the low beams, and I recently upgraded to HIDs for only about $39. Much greater output. I got mine from DDM Tuning - HID Kits, DEPO Lights, BMW Bumpers & Lighting.

HOWEVER.... you do not have projectors. I'm not being an elitist, but if you do not have projectors, you do not want to put in HIDs. See, the optics of your headlight were designed for a standard bulb, not a long thin HID bulb. This means you will create a lot of glare, and scatter the light upwards, annoying other drivers. If you upgrade your headlight housings to a projector setup, you have a lot more options.

The 9005/9006 mod is even cheaper than HIDs:

BMW E34 Website

But given how you can get REAL hids for only like $30 some dollars now, it is kind of pointless.

[ghporter]

I'll have to do some thinking on this. More lumens is better, obviously, but as you note, my headlights are not reflectors (my wife's S2000 does have HID reflector lights, and the difference is um...striking). So I could drop almost $250 on aftermarket headlight sets, or do something else. The "something else" is a xenon HID conversion kit, with 9006-compatible HID lamps and "plug and play" electronics...which is sort of dodgy to my way of thinking... So, replace the headlight fixtures with very cool halo HID fixtures (lots of screws, new headlight alignment required) or put 9006-compatible HID lamps in my non-reflector fixtures?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I'll have to do some thinking on this. More lumens is better, obviously, but as you note, my headlights are not reflectors (my wife's S2000 does have HID reflector lights, and the difference is um...striking). So I could drop almost $250 on aftermarket headlight sets, or do something else. The "something else" is a xenon HID conversion kit, with 9006-compatible HID lamps and "plug and play" electronics...which is sort of dodgy to my way of thinking... So, replace the headlight fixtures with very cool halo HID fixtures (lots of screws, new headlight alignment required) or put 9006-compatible HID lamps in my non-reflector fixtures?

Projectors. Not reflectors.

[downinflames68]

Anything with a halo is ricey garbage. I think you'd have to post pictures to know what you are talking about, because you're just confusing the issue with using the wrong words.

[sdilley14]

I may have found THE car I'm going to purchase...

It is almost exactly what I want. Exterior color, interior (almost every black Civic I've found has that nasty tan-ish interior), EX package with sunroof and alloy wheels, it's 2 years newer than the other Civic I was considering, and it has half the mileage. Still similarly priced. I may have to move on this one (pending Carfax report).

#424889 Findcars.com Vehicle Information

[downinflames68]

Black car? Ruh roh. Good luck keeping it clean. I'm done with those.

PS: Check craigslist. There should be a ton in Madison/Milwaukee.

[sdilley14]

I'll check it out. I've checked Craigslist in the La Crosse area where I'm at and its pretty thin pickins!

I've just got a thing for black cars, always have. Black paint with a slight tint job. Boo yeah baby!!

[downinflames68]

Yeah, I'd imagine everything in LaCrosse is pretty thin pickens. It's a small city. Just check out Madison before you drive all the way to another state for what is a pretty common car. Civics are very popular, no sense driving so far for one.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Projectors. Not reflectors.

Most Google hits seem to equate the two. The problem is that I just want the brighter, lower power lights, not the fancy "ricer" stuff. Replacement fixtures that provide real HID capability are only (apparently) available as ricer parts...

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Anything with a halo is ricey garbage. I think you'd have to post pictures to know what you are talking about, because you're just confusing the issue with using the wrong words.

Ricey garbage.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Most Google hits seem to equate the two. The problem is that I just want the brighter, lower power lights, not the fancy "ricer" stuff. Replacement fixtures that provide real HID capability are only (apparently) available as ricer parts...

Projectors have a lens to focus and direct the light:

(In this case, the bright circuit and the turn signal use a reflector, and the main bulb is a projector)


Reflectors are what everyone has, they just have mirrored surfaces to vaguely tell the light where to go: