[sMACk]

The only things missing for me (and maybe they do have some of these but I can't find them in the specs) Spoken word management capability, some kind of clip or pouch for going running or rolllerblading, and a way to lock the buttons so you don't accidentally push buttons.

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: sMACk ]

[Leaping Gnome]

$150 cheaper

Although it is a great product, even at the current price...

[greener]

a way to lock the buttons so you don't accidentally push buttons

it has a hold button, on top

[PeteWK]

It would be much better if it printed 100 dollar bills (one a day would be enough) and erased the balance on my credit card. Now, there's technology we need.

PeteWK

OK, and it would be cool if it had a color LCD and would play QT files.

Good sounding 16bit 44.1k/48k stereo analog audio input, and decent sounding mic pre with mic input. Device could then be used to record audio out of mixers, or in the field with a mic for videography or as a dictaphone recording lectures.

Work with Mac OS 8.6 or later. (Mac OS 9.2 as requirement severely blows since i have had to downgrade to 9.1 due to freezing and other problems/incompatabilities)

Time/date and alarm. Time can be sync's to world atomic clock's when connected to the mac with active net connection.

The device could be made a little larger and have intergrated mobile phone capabilities. ie a nokia that records, plays back audio, transfers files over firewire....now thats a breakthru device.

Make it $750 and i'd buy one.

Targon

[Immortal K-Mart Employee]

$299

[doctre]

It amazes me how many people here have seen the tech specs on this device, which include the (at least retail) prices of most of the components and still complain that Apple is charging to much. There isn't a device like this currently commercially available on this planet, this is the first. Its breaking new ground, it has functionality that no other *single* device out there has. It cost Apple a pretty penny just in components not to mention the fact that they've been developing this device since January (according to Steve in the presentation). All that is going to add up to a premium price. Besides as so many others on this forum and others have stated this is the "oh my goodness I have to have one right now because its so cool and people will be envious of me" early adopter price. I'd expect that either mid-november (after the first batch has shipped to the early adopters, of which I am one) or mid-december (just in time for Christmas) Apple will either lower the price or (as I think they will) begin to offer either bundles of Macs with the iPod or a rebate on the iPod if you buy a Mac. Those of us that are early adopters are helping Apple to recoup some of the cost that they have put into this device. Those of you who, for whatever reason, wish to wait until the price drops / there is a new iPod, be my guest. Its not going to bother me that you are doing so. I'll probably be envious of you anyway as you'll get a better deal / newer features but I will have had a iPod in my hands and been able to wonder at the marvel that it is in person with my own music on it. Anyway I've rambled enough. Apple has priced it where they can still sell quite a few to the early adopter types and still recoup costs. Anyone who doesn't fit into the early adopter mode of thinking just be patient, your iPods are coming.

things that would make the iPod perfect:
� audio input (optical and analog) and the ability to record in AIFF or mp3- for recording conserts and stuff
� optical output - for hooking it up to recievers
� remote control (on headphones) - I bet apple could make a really cool, easy-to-use one.

Now I don't know if this already works this way but I would like it so that when you plug the ipod in your mac itunes plays the songs from the ipod and not from the harddrive, so you don't have to have 5 gigs of mp3s on your computer when you have it all on the iPod. I know you won't be able to copy mp3s from the iPod to your mac but they should make it possible to only be able to listen to them.

If it's available now, it's just perfect.
I've been looking a MP3 player for my needs.
iPod has the best price/spec.
I need now.
geez.....

[OAW]

What would make the iPod ]perfect?

If in addition to the it's MP3 capabilities, it also had a color screen, and the ability to display photos, and playback quicktime video!

Imagine ... your riding on an airplane (911 notwithstanding) listening to your MP3s on your iPod and the guy next to you strikes up a conversation and asks "Do you have any kids?". You say, "Sure, here they are right here." ... and you press a few of the buttons on your iPod and you are instantly scrolling through color photos of the rugrats. You hit another button and you put it on "slideshow" so you don't even have to bother scrolling anymore. And right when the guy is about to say, "Cute kids! Hey, what is that little thing?", you press a few more buttons and all of a sudden you are showing full him full color, full motion iMovies of the little rascals too! At this point the guy has completely forgot about your kids because he is thoroughly fascinated by this little gadget you have. His jaw drops and he simply utters, "Cool! Where do I get one of those?".

I can see this happening, not in the near future because a color screen would make the price skyrocket right now. The color screen would also suck the battery like there is no tomorrow. But I believe that this is what iPod can evolve into. The infrastructrure is already there. All Apple needs to do is include a color screen and Quicktime.

OAW

Frankly, as a user of a Nomad Jukebox, i can't believe i have to use iTunes and a Mac to make a "playlist"

I can create/add playlists/songs on my Nomad Jukebox as i'm listening to songs on it -- it's great for "freeforming" your "soundtrack of life"

i think iPod is an amazing product on many counts and would love to get one, i'm just having a problem figuring how it fits into MY usage and needs of an MP3 player.

I almost see it as a portable/traveling version of what my larger 20gb jukebox does.

I use the JB at work all day and at home on the weekends constantly...

I think the iPod would be best suited for traveling on the bus/subway/car or working out -- when i have a shorter duration of time to listen to what i want - keeping it in a pocket (something i cant do with the JB)

Damn - i think i just sold myself.....

Originally posted by doctre:
<STRONG>There isn't a device like this currently commercially available on this planet, this is the first.</STRONG>

It is a Creative Nomad knock-off.

And overpriced.

Nobody is going to pay $399 for a frickin walkman.

[vvedge]

Originally posted by &lt;wiggles&gt;:
<STRONG>

It is a Creative Nomad knock-off.

And overpriced.

Nobody is going to pay $399 for a frickin walkman.</STRONG>

Well, creative sure thinks they can sell a 20 gig jukebox for $399... and laugh their way to the bank as users are transfering the songs via painfully slow USB... How long would it take someone to tranfer 20 gigs of mp3s over USB, do the math...

Maybe you're not a portable music buff, but this iPod is definitely ahead of the Nomad... Nomad is probably scrambling to make their machine more appealing right now.

I mean, JUST LOOK at the two. There's no comparison except they both play mp3s and are spacious... Apple did it better, Apple did it right... Creative's got nothing on the iPod...

Smash Mouth guy is right, this does "kick every other players' as$"

a high quality builtin voice recorder would make the device perfect at it's current price point. Wouldn't cost a lot to do either, it shoud have included this feature.

Originally posted by vvedge:
<STRONG>

How long would it take someone to tranfer 20 gigs of mp3s over USB, do the math...</STRONG>

HOW MANY TIMES does someone transfer 20 gigs?

You transfer your entire collection once (which you can do overnight) and then you do incremental changes of 20-30 tracks once a week or so. Which will take 10 seconds through firewire or a couple of minutes on USB. Big deal. It takes more time than 2 min to pick which 30 tracks you want to take with you anyway.

What would make it great? Simple: Bluetooth headphones. Bye bye wires. Plus then it would be easy to hook into other devices. Imaging a bluetooth cassette adapter that you stuck in your car so that listen while you drive.

[kidtexas]

Here is what I want out of the iPod. This would make it a killer product. It has come damn close to killing the portable MD market in one fell swoop, but there are still some nice features on those units. My idea would give all the advantages to the iPod. And most importantly, its not some pipe dream of having Apple remanufacture the iPod so it has a color, touch sensitive screen, a 48 gig hard drive, and wings. All it would require them to do is a firmware update.

My take on the iPod pricing - its a lot of money, but feature wise, it is competitive pricing in the MP3 player market, which happens to be expensive right now.

Now, here is what I really want. If the iPod had a recording means, it would be badass. At first, I thought they should do an iPod and an iPod Pro (with line in, etc). But then I got to thinking. How annoying is it when you buy the top model, and realize later that you would have been perfectly satisfied with the cheaper model, or vice-versa? I can see a better solution for this.

A firewire expansion unit (ePod?). Sell a little brick that has RCA ins/outs, digital ins/outs, a mic input, a 9V battery, some ok quality A/D and D/A converters (like the kind found in an MD unit - nothing spectacular, but decent), and finally, a jack so you can plug in an AC converter (which could be easily be replaced with a DC plug for your car). Why all this? If this was too much, they could market a simpler version as well with line out/line in and a plug for a power adapter for you car. Don't make the iPod have different capabilities, make the expansion packs have different abilities.

With the first expansion pack described (or any), the iPod merely pipes out audio digitally down the firewire cable into the expansion unit (just like in DV camera). The ext. unit would then convert the output to RCA or digital depending on your taste. Alternately, send signal in through the RCA ins/digital in/Mic and down the firewire cable would (again, just like DV), would allow the iPod to record. Slap a simple firmware update on the iPod to give it a simple recording interface (gain, start, stop). Make sure this ext. unit has a 9V battery or two to help the preamp for the Mic and to give extended recording time (10 hrs of play back is probably only like 2 of recording activity). The addition of the power supply would allow you to do all of this in your car (RCA outs -&gt; car stereo would be better than headphone outs), home (make the iPod a real part of your stereo), or on location (recording live concerts, etc.).

Anyway, I think this would be perfect. Upgrade in audio standards? Upgrade the ext. unit and the iPod firmware and there is no need to buy a new iPod (which would entice more buyers because they know their product would last). And even larger harddrive sizes, while nice, wouldn't be overly important, because 4.6 GB at CD quality sound is around 500 mins of audio - that is a lot.

Why not include a line in on the iPod? It would be cool if they did, but the thing is released. An ext unit gives me all the same functionality, and I can leave the stuff at home if I don't intend on using it. Even with a line in on the iPod itself, you have to remember to bring your mics, etc. all the time. That isn't happening. I also don't have to pay extra if I didn't want the feature. If at some later point down the road, I decided I needed the extra functionality, I could get it. Sell the ext. unit for $100-200. Sounds like a lot, and it is (and it would be cheap to make - if the DV converters, which essentially do what I just describe with the addition of DV codecs and video capabilities, sell for $200-300, surely they could get an audio only version for $100 less). This would mean added value for Apple - instead of scaring everyone away with mega featured & expensive iPod, they could sell the same unit to a lot of people, some of whom would go buy the expansion unit. And the ability to upgrade the iPod would make more people more willing to go buy it, even if they never upgraded (wasn't this one of the arguments on the Cube? And most people never upgrade their computer, but they would like to think they have the option if they wanted to).
Is $150 too much for the expansion unit? We will ignore the cost of any mics, assuming that you would need them for both units. Let's look. Minidiscs are popular because they are small, can store 80 mins at great quality on a tiny disc, and record (live concerts, sound clips, etc.). Problem: even at highest settings, there is some compression. Solution: none. Problem: Concerts are longer than 80 mins sometimes. Solution: switch discs at a good time, or use MDLP, lose quality, and fit the whole show in 160 mins. Problem: you just recorded a digital recording, you now want to transfer it to your computer digitally to edit -&gt; burn CD. Solution: buy a MD deck (for the digital out) and a sound card (for the digital in on your computer).

Price of this (I am underestimating this - believe me, until 2 days ago, I was slowly pursuing this trail):
Decent portable MD recorder: $200
MD Deck with digital out: $150
Mic preamp (for loud concerts): $100
Sound card (digital in for comp): $150
Total: $600

iPod: $400
Ext. unit: $200
Total: $600

Ok, about the same price. Yes, they could get an external unit like this out for around 200. Advantages of iPod solution: 5GB hard drive (500 mins of CD audio). PC connectivity. You can plug your iPod into your Mac and download 500 mins of digital audio in AIFF in 10 mins. Start editing right away. On MD, this transfer would take 500 mins, spread over 7 discs. Never mind the annoyances involved with timing switching discs during the show, etc. Apple could even have the AIFF's saved in a folder accessible to iPod playback and the firewire drive mode, and you could edit right on the mounted iPod - no need to transfer songs over.

Advantages of MD solution: longer battery life.

Both solutions have to deal with the external mic preamp for good recordings, external mics, etc. The MD advantage is also decreased by the limited life of the ext mic preamp battery.

Apple would have a monster on their hands. And it is all ready to go. Just market a little box that did some of this. They wouldn't even have to make it. Update the capabilities of the iPod, and get someone like M-Audio to make the expansion box. Tell me what you think.

[amphibious]

ability to record!

[amphibious]

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>Apple would have a monster on their hands. And it is all ready to go. Just market a little box that did some of this. They wouldn't even have to make it. Update the capabilities of the iPod, and get someone like M-Audio to make the expansion box. Tell me what you think.</STRONG>

Except M-Audio makes absolute garbage. Their Quattro box doesn't work AT ALL with any Mac software, and I believe the PC version is still delayed... they'd have better like with somebody like eMagic.

[kidtexas]

M-Audio - that is fine. That wasn't my driving point. I'd much rather have Apple do it, but they won't make a little functional BLACK METAL box with connectors, would they? It would almost be better if it came from some soundcard/music hardware company who could do it good for cheap.

[iPaul UK]

I have a couple of good idea's that would make it more attractive. For a start, regardless of what some other people have said, it could still do with at least $50 knocked off the RRP. A larger 10 gig drive would also be a worthwhile bonus. (Keeping in mind that similar products have as much as 20gig HD's in them)

BUT!!! Just imagine if the iPod had a USB port squeezed onto it as well. The idea being that you could hook up your iPod to not only older Macs such us early iBooks and iMacs etc, but ALSO be able to plug it straight into Apples own iStick with iSub type speaker system! That would just be an unbelievebly cool feature to have. iMagine, a highly cool and unique computerised all Apple audio system! You gotta admit thats a frickin cool idea.. So maybe Apple has missed out there.. However, maybe there will be a MK 2 iStick speaker system which uses FireWire? Now that really would be worth paying good money for!

[Sinemacula]

Line in and/or a built in mic. With that, I'd have plunked down my $400 already. As is... I'll wait for Rev.B

[FormerLurker]

First choice: 10 GB hard drive

Second choice: $299 price tag

Anyone who thinks the iPod is crap compared to the Nomad:

-------------------------------------------------------------
iPod thoughts from a Nomad Jukebox owner on Slashdot:

I tried to stay out of this, but the iPod bashing seems to continue.

Seems to be a lot of talk about the iPod being dead-in-the-water (or nearly so) as an MP3 player. I, as a NJB owner and occasional Apple owner (my G3 has been powered up twice in the past year), find the iPod quite appealing, and would gladly exchange my NJB plus two hundred dollars for one. Here's why the iPod will, IMHO, kick the NJB's butt.

#1 - Size. The NJB is exactly the wrong size, as are all the other HD-based MP3 players I've seen. Too big to be really carry-in-on-you portable, too small to hold a useable display or enough buttons to properly save/name playlists, manage files, explore your collection etc.

#2 - Data storage. The NJB didn't used to do this, and even now barely does.

#3 - Speed. USB. Slow. Firewire. Fast. Swapping out even a 6GB NJB MP3 library takes a LONG, LONG time, like many hours. Assuming the software doesn't time out on you [nomadness.net], which, ten firmwares later, it still does. Often.

#4 - Reliability. PB5300s be damned, Apple makes decent stuff. I'm on my second NJB, and its starting to die too. Creative puts a *90-day [nomadworld.com]* warranty on the things, they're so flaky. Really.

#5 - Battery life. The NJB gets 2 hours IME from a set of NiMH AAs. There are also issues with overheating, failure to charge, and improper charge status reporting on the units. What good is 1000 hours of music if you can only enjoy it two hours at a time? Many NJB owners are resorting to $50-$70 ratpacks worth of bulky NiMH D-cells to get to the 10hr battery life the iPod advertizes as standard. Bring on the lithium polymer.

#6 - Support. 1-800-SOS-APPL vs. we-wont-even-give-you-a-number-to-call-unless-you- go-through-this-web-wizard and "we think you dropped it [nomadness.net]". Worse if you're outside the US. Sign me up for some iPod Applecare - after two dead Rios and two dead NJB's, I could use some warranty love.

#7 - Output level. Based on the Reg's comment about the iPod sounding good, and based on the fact that NJB owners everywhere are opening up their units (voiding their 90 day warranty) to try to solder in a reasonable output level [kuren.org].

#8 - Aesthetics. 'nuff said.

#9 - Price. The iPod is cheaper ($400USD) than the NJB was when I bought my first one at $759CAD ($499USD) [creative.com], less than a year ago. If this 1.8" drive format is standardized, then bigger drives should be able to be shoehorned in, as NJB owners have been doing.

#10 - Drive letter (or the mac version, mount-it-on-the-desktop) support. Try using cheeseball banner-ads-galore gotta-use-it-to-load-the-device-whoops-i-crashed-a gain Creative Playcenter and you'll see what I mean.

#11 - Boot times [nomadness.net]. Even with the latest firmware, its still 20+ seconds from powering the unit up to getting a sound out of it. For those with bigger HDs, older firmware, or less-than-perfect ID3 tags, startup times of two minutes or more are the norm. I can't imagine the iPod would be worse than THAT.

#12 - Proprietary file system with no repair / diagnosis options. There's no way to do a "real" format on an NJB. As in one that actually looks for bad sectors. One bad sector on your fragile fujitsu 2.5" HD? Count on lockups, freezeups, and untold general annoyances. There's no defrag, either.

There's plenty more, but I think the point is made. 'nuff of the pooh-poohing. As soon as someone can get this thing to accept MP3s from a PeeCee running Windoze and/or Linux, it will be the next big thing. (and save the archos jukebox praise, unless you've actually used one - or at least fondled a dead one).

[waffffffle]

kidtexas, you're missing something very important about this. This is a common misconception about the MD format. People think that a MiniDisc holds 650 MB of data which equals 74 minutes of CD quality audio. That is not true. The MD format uses a proprietary compression format so that you can squeeze 74 minutes of audio on to such a small disc. I have yet to figure out what the actual capacity of the disc really is, but its NOT 650 MB.

That is why a MD player cannot function in the same capacity that a digital music player. Any good concert taper knows that you NEVER record a show using compressed audio of any kind. A MD recorder is not an acceptable solution for recording shows in my opinion and that sentiment is shared by many people within tape trading communities. Anyone who records shows with a Minidisc thinking that they are getting 100% straight audio is only fooling themselves.


However your idea for the iPod is a good one, although even just Apple adding analog audio input would be good enough for recording, and then the music could be taken off digitally through firewire. The only problem with the current implementation is that the music part of the HD is seperate from the data, so when you mount the iPod on your desktop you cannot see any of the mp3 files on there. But your add-on idea would potentially allow writing to that area since it would essentially be a peer device seeing the iPod as a hard disk, just like a computer does, and would be able to write to that portion. However it would need it's own output jack as well, and dedicated hardware in order to play audio off the iPod (and probably it's own screen).

I hope that some clever company can come up with such an addon for the iPod, and maybe they can get it to work with any firewire hard drive. That would become the ultimate taper tool, especially if it can use larger drives.

[Mediaman_12]

LOL.
Pong.

[kidtexas]

On the MD format - Yeah, I know that MD's are compressed. MD's are about 165 megs I think. I know this isn't the best way to do it, but we are talking about consumers here, not pros. MD does have a lot to offer in this area - small (stick it in your underwear to smuggle it in), good battery life, cheap media. And the players aren't too expensive. Last I checked, portable DAT recorders were a lot more expensive. And hey, even if MD's are compressed, they still sound a heck of a lot better than cassettes And even though they are compressed, they sound pretty good. But surely, a lossless recording format like DAT, hard drive, etc is the way to go. That's what makes the iPod so attractive - the recording mechanism is already there (the harddrive can write data), all it needs is an input! Which, in some senses is already there too. Arrggg! I wish my dream would come true to give me the iPod with some type of input - any type!

Now, this is all speculation, but I think unless the iPod dynamically partitions it' s drive to separate music and data, the music is probably stored in some invisible folder or something, and some enterprising person will figure out a way to get to the mp3's transfered through itunes while the iPod is in hard drive mode. Even if this isn't the case, I'm sure Apple could work something out (they did make the damn thing) so that these recorded files could be accessed from both the iPod to play, and in mounted hard drive mode.

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: kidtexas ]