[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No he's not. Reality eludes you again.

Yeah he was... so, wrong again, I see?

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Is it not possible for someone to have an untrainable voice?

Only if that person is a complete idiot and incapable of following even basic instruction.

I find it harder to believe someone trying to ascend to the presidency just went, "Nah, we'll skip the voice lessons." Doubly so given her husband. It's not like she hasn't heard the complaint before, either.

So, she's a muppet?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Are we not being asked to make a subjective determination by all the discussion of its historicism?

Huh? She's either the first or she isn't. I don't understand the question.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Yeah he was... so, wrong again, I see?

No he wasn't. Look at the post I was responding to. You think I was replying to the one above it.

[The Final Dakar]

Anyway, I look forward to andi weighing in because at the end of the day my perspective is still that of a dude.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No he wasn't. Look at the post I was responding to. You think I was replying to the one above it.

Wow, the "pedantic-ness" is real.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Anyway, I look forward to andi weighing in because at the end of the day my perspective is still that of a dude.

Why? Does she get more than one vote in the election?

I love how we've been having "gender doesn't matter, it's a social construct" drilled into our heads, but suddenly it becomes a thing when people want it to. Either there's equality or there isn't, you can't have it both ways.

[andi*pandi]

In some cases, sure, gender SHOULDN'T matter, but equality doesn't mean gender neutral or that we all don't have perspectives. Dakar's point was from one of perspective. Unless at some point in your life Shaddim, you've been a woman, you won't have a woman's perspective. Our perspectives as individual men and woman does vary with other life experiences of course.

Today I saw a friend, she was wearing her vintage Mondale Ferraro tshirt. That brought me back. It was a revelation that a woman could be on the ticket. There were haters. 1984. America wasn't ready. Even other women, interviewed on the street, weren't sure a woman could do it.

When Bill was running for office, Hillary was vilified for saying she wasn't the "stay at home and bake cookies" type of wife. Like how she made cookies was even a qualification for FLOTUS, they tried to put her in her place. Bill and Hillary advertised themselves as a "twofer" meaning two thinking policy people in the White House, but many were put off by that, by any potential FIrst Lady who did anything other than host charity events, wear pearls, and look pretty. Heck, recently even health eating and exercise campaigns caused suspicion in some.

Obama just burst on the scene, but the people were ready. America still isn't ready for a woman in power. Or are they?

more later, gotta go.

quick edit: Maggie Chase Smith.
http://digital.olivesoftware.com/oli...03&sk=6869198F

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No he wasn't. Look at the post I was responding to. You think I was replying to the one above it.

Her oratory wasn't the subject of that post. Her oratory wasn't even mentioned in that post.

That very well may not be the post you were replying to, but it's the only one where the reply is comprehensible.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Is it not possible for someone to have an untrainable voice? I find it harder to believe someone trying to ascend to the presidency just went, "Nah, we'll skip the voice lessons." Doubly so given her husband. It's not like she hasn't heard the complaint before, either.

An untrainable voice is possible, but I'd say more likely than "this is how we talk soft... THIS IS HOW WE TALK LOUD" Sesame Street level shit being completely beyond her, is she reacts poorly to criticism about it.

To the point where friends and confidants stopped talking about it because all discussion served to do was antagonize her.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Huh? She's either the first or she isn't. I don't understand the question.

Whether it's historic or not is binary. The importance of the historicism is not.

I'm arguing the importance of the historicism is being overvalued.

The value of any given piece of historicism is going to be based in part on the height of the barrier which has been jumped. The height of the barrier can often be inferred from how exceptional one needs to be to successfully vault it.

I question her exceptionalism based on the existence of more exceptional candidates (Liz Warren), and therefore question the height of the barrier which has been crossed.

[subego]

I vote this as the best moment of the convention.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Obama just burst on the scene, but the people were ready. America still isn't ready for a woman in power. Or are they?

Of course the US is "ready", but that doesn't mean it must be Hillary. Honestly, people look for sexism in places where it doesn't exist (or it exists in tiny amounts, just like what men are dealing with in academia, and is blown entirely out of proportion).

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by subego 

I vote this as the best moment of the convention.

Nah, best moment is Bill getting caught on camera falling asleep during Hillary's acceptance speech.

[subego]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Obama just burst on the scene, but the people were ready. America still isn't ready for a woman in power. Or are they?

I'm not sure people were all that ready. I'd actually argue they were more ready for Hillary.

Obama made people ready by being Democratic Jesus.

I honestly don't want to downplay Hillary's accomplishments. I'd say Hillary has made people ready as well, but knocked down the barriers back in 2008. She didn't knock them down again.

[subego]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Nah, best moment is Bill getting caught on camera falling asleep during Hillary's acceptance speech.

He was contemplating his balloon flip technique

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Tell me he wasn't thinking about flipping a big pair of coconuts.

[subego]

"That speech you wrote about your wife... it was soooo caring."

[Jawbone54]

I don't care what your spouse is running for...

After all the stress of a convention week, I'd be falling asleep during such a long speech too, and I'm not even 70 years old.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

"It's the economy, stupid"

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Oooh nice, "James Carville, 1992"

During that 1992 election, one of the Clintons campaign slogans was it was the "worst economy in fifty years" I don't think they should run with that again, being they are the party in the White House.
Seven Years Later, Recovery Remains the Weakest of the Post-World War II Era - Real Time Economics - WSJ

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I don't care what your spouse is running for...

After all the stress of a convention week, I'd be falling asleep during such a long speech too, and I'm not even 70 years old.

I was commenting to a friend that I don't think the dietary restrictions agree with him. He looks like the vegetarian lion from Futurama. He just seems to be missing something. Of course I'm gleaning this from a handful of reaction shots of the one speech I actually watched. But he comes of as older than his age.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I heard a rumor that he has Hep-C and his liver is barely hanging on.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Her oratory wasn't the subject of that post. Her oratory wasn't even mentioned in that post.

Originally Posted by subego 

Evidence:

You can be a really lousy woman and get nominated. This is in contrast to the black guy, who needed to be the best orator on the planet.

You mentioned Obama's oratory in contrast to Clinton being a lousy candidate. Maybe I read into it, but what I got was "She's not good as him and somehow she waltzed in."

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Wow, the "pedantic-ness" is real.

Yes, that happens when people try to muddle the waters on you.

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Why? Does she get more than one vote in the election?

Or because she has a different perspective than me because I can only empathize with her on what it is to be a woman in this culture. She has faced unique challenges I can't fathom.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

I'm arguing the importance of the historicism is being overvalued.

I think I've already agreed to a certain extent by ragging on having Thatcher in the 80s and the UK now having it's second female PM. But within the context of the US, it is not because of the dearth of female representation at the federal level.

Originally Posted by subego 

The value of any given piece of historicism is going to be based in part on the height of the barrier which has been jumped. The height of the barrier can often be inferred from how exceptional one needs to be to successfully vault it.

Has any previous female candidate for President even one a single state primary prior to Clinton? To me that illustrates how high the barrier has been. No one else has even come close.

Originally Posted by subego 

I question her exceptionalism based on the existence of more exceptional candidates (Liz Warren), and therefore question the height of the barrier which has been crossed.

What are Liz Warren's credentials? All I know is I like her views on economic regulation and she may or may not have a drop of native-american blood in her.