[rich82fox]

hi

I have a powermac blue&white that currently has a G4 400mhz processor running in it

I am wanting to keep this machine and upgrade it

what's the furthest you can upgrade it to?

anyone have any ideas?

rich

[Cadaver]

It'll cost you... but:

•Processor: 1.1GHz G3 w/ 1MB on-die L2 cache is the fastest processor you'll find for it. There are some fast G4s, but these will cut your bus speed down to 66MHz. Not worth it, and will end up being slower than the G3.
•SATA drive controller: PCI cards; readily available. ATA/133 PCI controllers are also easy to find.
•Fast SATA drives: could even put a 150GB 10K rpm 16MB cache Raptor in to it.
•Video: Radeon 9200 PCI (128MB VRAM) is I think the best card you'll find.
•USB 2.0, FireWire 800: Both available via PCI cards.
•DVD Burner: just about any standard DVD burner, including dual-layer models.
•RAM: Up to 1GB max of PC-100 RAM. 256MB x 4... won't take 512MB DIMMs.

Do realize that adding all this will still not give you a machine as fast as a $500 Mac mini (with the exception of a faster 3.5" HD and a FireWire 800 port).

[bowwowman]

Yep you can do everything Cadaver listed above, but whether any/all of it is worthwhile money-wise will depend on what you intend to do with the machine.....

Cheapest/best bang for the buck upgrades in value order:

1) ~$50-80.00: Max da ram! psssss.......(let me know if you need some 256mb modules, I will have some for sale soon)

2) ~$50-75.00: Radeon 9200....fastest PCI card available for this machine. Makes alot of difference in OS X GUI performance

3) ~$50.00: ATA/100 or 133 HDD. Speeds up boot times and app loading significantly. Cheaper option since you already have the controller card

4) FREE: Overclock the CPU. Most G4 upgrade cards can go at least 50mhz, maybe 100mhz over the rated speeds. Post back if you want more info on this.

Dont really worry about USB 2 & Firewire 800 unless you have a continual need for superfast data transfers. The onboard stuff does just fine for everday uses.

The SATA & CPU are nice upgrades, but only if you really, really need them.

And BTW, unless you REALLY need it, sell/ditch the SCSI card.......it's a dead tech/rapidly dying OS X support/PITA issues

The main overall difference here is that you can add these things gradually, when your budget allows, but buying a new machine obviously involves a large cash outlay all at once.....

[OreoCookie]

Since the question on `how far' you can upgrade a b&w, the question you should ask yourself is rather how much you are willing to spend. If you do have a certain budget for the upgrades (which will not solve some of the shortcomings of the machine, for instance the relatively slow graphics card which will not run Quartz Extreme properly), I guess it would be wiser to spend it on a used PowerMac or a Mac mini (depending on your needs) and start from there. I heard you can get QuickSilver G4s for roughly $450-500 in the States, for instance.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Since the question on `how far' you can upgrade a b&w, the question you should ask yourself is rather how much you are willing to spend. If you do have a certain budget for the upgrades (which will not solve some of the shortcomings of the machine, for instance the relatively slow graphics card which will not run Quartz Extreme properly), I guess it would be wiser to spend it on a used PowerMac or a Mac mini (depending on your needs) and start from there. I heard you can get QuickSilver G4s for roughly $450-500 in the States, for instance.

RetroBox often has ~500Mhz G4s for ~$150, ~700Mhz G4s for ~$250, and ~900Mhz G4s for $350.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mduell

RetroBox often has ~500Mhz G4s for ~$150, ~700Mhz G4s for ~$250, and ~900Mhz G4s for $350.

Thanks. I'm not that familiar with the price structure of used Macs on the American market.

[rich82fox]

Originally Posted by mduell

RetroBox often has ~500Mhz G4s for ~$150, ~700Mhz G4s for ~$250, and ~900Mhz G4s for $350.

Is it possibe for the internals of a G4 to go inside the blue & white? (such as the internals of the quicksilver?)

any ideas anyone?

rich

[OreoCookie]

Why?
You'd get a new case … so why would you want to transplant a newer computer with a newer case into an older case … 

To answer your question, it is not possible with newer G4s, the first generation of G4s (Sawtooth, up to 450 MHz) might work (at least we had one like this at work). However if you don't have much experience with the internals of computers, I would not recommend such a procedure in the first place.

[Cadaver]

Originally Posted by rich82fox

Is it possibe for the internals of a G4 to go inside the blue & white? (such as the internals of the quicksilver?)

any ideas anyone?

rich

It would likely be a major PITA. You'd need to replace the power supply & cooling fans, redrill motherboard mounts to the case, mod the back panel some how (since the ports wont line up), etc.

Not saying it can't be done, just that it probably isn't worth it. If you really like the blue & frosty-white side panels that are on the G3, just pop those on to the case a G4 would come in.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why?
You'd get a new case … so why would you want to transplant a newer computer with a newer case into an older case …

My powers of deducation say that he wants to do it because he prefers the look of the B&W case.

[Salty]

You could certainly fit a Mac mini in a BW

[bluedog]

You *will* need a Firewire/SATA or IDE controller card. The mobo built-in only supports up to something like 20GB drives and not able to have two drives connected without the fear or corrupting data.

Do yourself a favor if you really want to upgrade this machine with a card for your drives. I like the Trio Tempo cards since they have Firewire, USB and then IDE internal connectors for all the major upgrades on a single card.

But the bus speed will really kill you if you want to push this machine. You have to balance the ugprade/performance costs against what you want it to do and how much you want to spend.

They are nearly obsolete for OSX other than a basic surfing and such, although your mileage may vary with what you expect out of it.

[lothar56]

Originally Posted by bluedog

You *will* need a Firewire/SATA or IDE controller card. The mobo built-in only supports up to something like 20GB drives and not able to have two drives connected without the fear or corrupting data.

Could you maybe cite a source? As long as it's a Rev 2, he'll have no problems with drives up to ~128GB. If you want to know anything about overclocking, go to the 'mac modifications' area an look for "overclocking a g4 sonnet upgrade.' I listed details on what jumper settings produce what speeds..you can't use standard jumper tables with the new ZIF. I have a G4/400 running solidly at 450MHz right now.

[bowwowman]

They are nearly obsolete for OSX other than a basic surfing and such, although your mileage may vary with what you expect out of it.

PURE BullySwocky!!!! On what EXACTLY do you base this statement, huummmm?

Properly equipped, the B&W's are perfectly capable workhorses that will continue to run very well for a long time. Granted, they are no G5, but that does NOT make them useless by any means !

I DO agree, however, that a pci controller card is the right way to go when adding more/bigger drives

My B&W G4/650 with 1GB ram & 4 SATA drives STILL runs Tiger rock solid for 8-12 hours per day every day, breezing through ANY & ALL graphic design tasks I throw at it, as well as surfing, email ect ect......

I know many graphics pros who do even more with them than I do, and they
certainly dont consider them "nearly obsolete" by any means

[JCT]

I think they still have some life in them.

I just received a "gift" B&W G3 450 Mhz -- scrounged enough RAM to bring it to 768, added a SATA card a two 80 GB drives and now have a perfectly good fileserver for my lab. When/if I want to upgrade I can pull the card and drives and place them in the next machine.

I loaded it up with Tiger and while it isn't a speed demon, it does the trick. Interestingly, I recently put together a new Imaging station (CCD + framegrabber) for gel documentation and densitometry. Since the B&W was just "hanging out" I tossed the PCI framegrabber in, downloaded ImageJ and was pretty thrilled to see the whole system work on a 7-year old computer!

I think as long as your expectations are reasonable and the cash outlay isn't extreme, the B&W might work out fine.

Good luck,

JT

[bluedog]

Originally Posted by bowwowman

PURE BullySwocky!!!! On what EXACTLY do you base this statement, huummmm?

Properly equipped, the B&W's are perfectly capable workhorses that will continue to run very well for a long time. Granted, they are no G5, but that does NOT make them useless by any means !

I DO agree, however, that a pci controller card is the right way to go when adding more/bigger drives

My B&W G4/650 with 1GB ram & 4 SATA drives STILL runs Tiger rock solid for 8-12 hours per day every day, breezing through ANY & ALL graphic design tasks I throw at it, as well as surfing, email ect ect......

I know many graphics pros who do even more with them than I do, and they
certainly dont consider them "nearly obsolete" by any means

Ok. Ok. It may work well for you. There's just a few limitations that will preclude doing some things a more recent machine can do with ease. Upgrading RAM, video and the IDE controller/drives will help a lot. But then you're probably adding a bunch of money into a machine that may work well today and into the future.

Sure it may run the latest OS today, and it certainly can be usable. I have a friend who has theirs set up to run an HD LCD projector and he plays iTunes and DVDs with a 5.1 sound card attached with great use. I just look at what I'd need to upgrade my b&w and think its just not worth it with the limited bus speed and video. And your 650mHz upgrade certainly helps it out a bit. I've got 7600's running tiger (and they are fair at it with 640MB ram. I just don't think they are going to win any speed races now and even more so in the next OS rev.

[Cadaver]

My daughter is using it now... I have a blue & white rev. 1 with a 900MHz G3 processor, a Radeon video card, an ATA/133 controller card, 1GB of RAM and an 80GB HD . Its connected to via DVI to a Dell 19" LCD. It runs OS X pretty well, actually. Its no speed demon, but its perfectly acceptible for office-style apps (MS office, iWork, Mail, Safari, iCal, Acrobat, Photoshop Elements, etc).

My mother "suffers" along with an 800MHz iMac G4, and I know the blue & white is faster.