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mrfoxxman · Sep 15, 2002, 08:15 PM

Maybe this was a Friday the 13th joke or something but I just checked out Apple's Download section to read the blurb they have about Watson and found this quote:

"Much faster than Sherlock, with nearly twice as many useful tools, including Google Searching, you�ll never need to launch Sherlock 3 again!"

Seems a straight forward statement..... what do you think? Wierd huh? Didnt ever think Id see a statement like this on Apple's website!

Adam Betts · Sep 15, 2002, 08:34 PM

Haha very odd!

Apple sure do have great sense of humor

Developer · Sep 15, 2002, 08:34 PM

OK, I had a look at it. It's in the main Watson page the "About Watson" text. Developers supply this text themselves. Apple reserves the right to edit the description, but in my experience they hardly do. So most probably that's what the Watson guy wrote.

Ryu · Sep 15, 2002, 08:34 PM

http://www.karelia.com/watson/

Go see what they say in the middle of the page in pink letters.

I think Apple just pasted what was written on this site but indeed, I find it quite curious what its intention is.

Personally, I do think that Apple owes Karelia a big apology and as they say on this site, as I already embrased Watson, Sherlock was present only when I first installed my Jaguar. Since then, gone...

bewebste · Sep 15, 2002, 08:36 PM

Yeah, that's kind of funny. But, that blurb wasn't written by Apple or anything - it's the same blurb that appears on VersionTracker.com for Watson. Heh.

Emotionally Fragile Luke · Sep 15, 2002, 11:27 PM

At first I felt sorry for Watson, now I just think that the developer is a big jerk and a crybaby.

superfula · Sep 16, 2002, 02:45 AM

A crybaby is right. He's the one who owes an apology to Apple. The idea implementation was there with Sherlock from the beginning. Sherlock 3 was just a logical step. Heck, if Apple doesn't make Sherlock, this dude would never have made Watson. As far as I'm concerned, Sherlock 3 is a much better program anyway. He can take his little rip to pc. Then of course he'll whine when M$ makes a similar product.

:XI: · Sep 16, 2002, 10:49 PM

there's a sample app in the dev tools called watson. it lets you search through your emails in mail.app or something

Arkham_c · Sep 16, 2002, 10:52 PM

Nah, Apple definitely ripped off the Watson app. The old sherlock was a complete piece of crap. The new one is an obvious ripoff, and Apple should have had to pay up. If the guys had any money he could easily win a lawsuit.

Not that I care. I never used Watson, and I never use Sherlock either.

KaptainKaya · Sep 16, 2002, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Nah, Apple definitely ripped off the Watson app. The old sherlock was a complete piece of crap. The new one is an obvious ripoff, and Apple should have had to pay up. If the guys had any money he could easily win a lawsuit.

Not that I care. I never used Watson, and I never use Sherlock either.

He was offered a job at Apple and turned it down. Greedy bastard...

King Bob On The Cob · Sep 16, 2002, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
If the guys had any money he could easily win a lawsuit.

You apparently don't know Apple legal

(Apple was working on Sherlock 3 since before Watson was created)

Developer · Sep 17, 2002, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
If the guys had any money he could easily win a lawsuit.

I'm not so sure about that. Applications with almost 100% overlapping functionality (clones) seem to be pretty usual (Illustrator<->Freehand, iMovie<->MovieMaker, Photoshop<->Gimp...)

Another problem is that he ist probably an ADC member, so he had to sign an agreement that he is fine with Apple making a competing product.

I'd say he would have very slim chances in a lawsuit.

::maroma:: · Sep 17, 2002, 01:07 AM

If the dude had a patent on the technology itself, then he could win. If he doesn't have one, then it's open season on Watson clones. My guess is that he doesn't.

Kristoff · Sep 17, 2002, 01:54 AM

Win a lawsuit?

What are you guys smoking?

We're talking Web Services here folks.

You guys don't get out much, do you.

All Sherlock and Watson are are cocoa/carbon UI for Web Services.
Whoopdie Friggin Doo!

Saying that either Apple or the "Watson cry-baby guy" can win a lawsuit against each other is like saying Tim Berners-Lee should file suit against Netscape/Microsoft/Opera/Omni, etc.

Tim Berners-Lee made the first client/server for transmitting HTML over HTTP, a protocol he invented. He made them on NeXTStep in 1990 at CERN.

He did not invent HTML. Just like neither Apple nor "Watson cry-baby guy" invented "Web Services".

So, back to the thread, you have an argument over who would win a lawsuit regarding the consolidation and display of publicly available information over standard protocols.

IT IS A STUPID AND POINTLESS ARGUMENT.

If you ask me, they both copied off of Yahoo. I think Yahoo should sue them both!

Personally, I think the Watson guy is an idiot for turning down the Apple employment offer, but that's my opinion.

But, enough with this who copied who. The fact is, the watson guy was early on a growing scene. He was able to capitalize, but he'll soon be swallowed up by a sea of Web Service aware applications.

Fotek2001 · 12:59 PM

Actually, Tim Berners-Lee *did* invent HTML (in partnership with Robert Cailliau):

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/ACHIEVEMENTS/web.html

Quote from: http://www.w3c.org/MarkUp/historical

Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Caillau both worked at CERN, an international high energy physics research center near Geneva. In 1989 they collaborated on ideas for a linked information system that would be accessible across the wide range of different computer systems in use at CERN. At that time many people were using TeX and PostScript for their documents. A few were using SGML. Tim realized that something simpler was needed that would cope with dumb terminals through high end graphical X Window workstations. HTML was conceived as a very simple solution, and matched with a very simple network protocol HTTP.

jcb9 · Sep 17, 2002, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Nah, Apple definitely ripped off the Watson app. The old sherlock was a complete piece of crap. The new one is an obvious ripoff, and Apple should have had to pay up. If the guys had any money he could easily win a lawsuit.

Not that I care. I never used Watson, and I never use Sherlock either.

If you've never used either app, how can you be so sure that one's a ripoff of the other?

curmi · Sep 17, 2002, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by KaptainKaya:

He was offered a job at Apple and turned it down. Greedy bastard...

What the fvck? He didn't want to work for Apple as he prefers to work for himself! It isn't everyone's dream job to work for Apple you know.

I can't believe you would seriously make a comment like that...

Gankdawg · Sep 17, 2002, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Kristoff:
Tim Berners-Lee made the first client/server for transmitting HTML over HTTP, a protocol he invented. He made them on NeXTStep in 1990 at CERN.

Wait a minute! Didn't Al Gore invent that?

Kristoff · Sep 18, 2002, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Fotek2001:
Actually, Tim Berners-Lee *did* invent HTML (in partnership with Robert Cailliau):

http://public.web.cern.ch/Public/ACHIEVEMENTS/web.html

Quote from: http://www.w3c.org/MarkUp/historical

While you are technically correct, I was actually referring to the works of Ted Nelson (first use of the word "Hypertext") in:
"A File Structure for the Complex, the Changing, and the Indeterminate."
20th National Conference, New York, Association for Computing Machinery, 1965.

And, Andy van Dam--creator of the Hypertext Editing System and FRESS in 1967.

These works were long before TBL ever hit the scene.

True, the actual HTML spec was Lee's--so I do stand corrected. But, the point remains the same.

dru · Sep 18, 2002, 05:47 AM

I've tried Watson a few times. The UI is an attrocity. Sherlock's UI is *FAR* more polished but the services suck. No weather (grrr). No tv listings (great for those of us who watch maybe two shows per week, and want to catch appearances by fave artists, etc. without wading through a paper tv guide). Flawed yellow pages maps (keeps thinking my zip code is 10 miles away... this and weather keep me going to Yahoo). No Google?! (WHAT was Apple THINKING?)

I find the Watson author's stance to be childish at best. If he can't differentiate his offering from Sherlock 3 (or 4 or X) than it deserves to die in the market. Simple as that. That's how the software business works. There's no reason for him to expect he would have a monopoly on plundering the Sherlock branding, etc.--a free ride on Apple's coat tails forever now did he? Compete or go away. Simple as that.

His juvenile whining has soured me on *EVER* purchasing Watson.

Arkham_c · Sep 18, 2002, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by jcb9:

If you've never used either app, how can you be so sure that one's a ripoff of the other?

I never said I'd never used either app. I said I don't use either app on an ongoing basis. It doesn't take a genius to tell that you can look at screenshots of the two apps and can't tell them apart. The Apple tool is a CLONE of Watson. No more, no less.

I'm not saying Apple should not have made Sherlock 3. What I am saying is that they stole his idea, and they should have compensated him. Believe it or not, some people don't consider a job at Apple compensation. Some of us don't want to pack up our lives and move to California.

Mongrel · Sep 18, 2002, 10:37 AM

Maybe if Sherlock 3 wasn't dog-slow I would consider using it... I can see why some might think the interface is more polished, but frankly pinstripes are pinstripes... they're pretty much the same when using the tools they have in common. The only thing Watson is missing in my opinion is the mapping function.

The real decider for me is by the time Sherlock actually ACTIVATES the tool, much less retrieves its information, Watson has already given my movie times for 20 theatres, the weather, and TV guide. I don't know WHAT'S plaguing Sherlock and Help center start time, but it sorely needs to be fixed.

absmiths · Sep 18, 2002, 05:20 PM

I can't believe this stupid debate has surfaced again - everybody, please reread Kristoff's post until you get it burned into your mind, then drop it!

nforcer · Sep 18, 2002, 07:44 PM

The developers supply the description themselves. It's interesting how 6 months ago Watson was marketed as a companion app to Sherlock. And now that's been completely reversed and it's intention is to replace Sherlock. Funny...

kovacs · Sep 19, 2002, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by curmi:

What the fvck? He didn't want to work for Apple as he prefers to work for himself! It isn't everyone's dream job to work for Apple you know.

I can't believe you would seriously make a comment like that...

I was about to post same comment, there could be lots of reasons why somebody doesn't want to work for Apple ( or any other company ).