[Developer]

Originally posted by Amorph:
First off, embedding browser code deep in the OS for any reason is dumb with a capital D U M B.

I don't think so. There are already a lot of apps that need HTML rendering capabilities (Help Viewer, Sherlock, Mail...)

Third party applications can also greatly benefit from it (especially with web-content getting more and more important for all kind off applications).

So I would say it is a must for a modern operating system to provide HTML rendering.

What OS X currently offers in Carbon and Cocoa is almost pathetic.

[Amorph]

Originally posted by Developer:
I don't think so. There are already a lot of apps that need HTML rendering capabilities (Help Viewer, Sherlock, Mail...)

Third party applications can also greatly benefit from it (especially with web-content getting more and more important for all kind off applications).

So I would say it is a must for a modern operating system to provide HTML rendering.

What OS X currently offers in Carbon and Cocoa is almost pathetic.

If you'd read the rest of my post, you'd have seen that I argued that Apple would/should do exactly what you're suggesting.

But providing a library or service that is safely modularized and outside the kernel is one thing; embedding browser code deep into the OS is dumb. So is providing one giant library that tries to do everything. (So of course, MS does both. But I digress...)

[Subzero Diesel949]

Originally posted by lookmark:



So what does Apple have to gain?


- Control. Integrating parts of the browser deeply into the OS, for maximum speed.

Isn't that what M$ was found guilty of?

Edit: Already asked

[dfiler]

Originally posted by Developer:
I don't think so. There are already a lot of apps that need HTML rendering capabilities (Help Viewer, Sherlock, Mail...)
...
What OS X currently offers in Carbon and Cocoa is almost pathetic.

This discussion would be a lot easier if there was a consensus on exactly what is encompassed by an 'OS'.

As the software industry and the field of computer science have become more mature, there has been a trend to use progromatically less efficient but more robust coding techniques. Software is more robust when the interface between components is sparse and well defined. Unfortunately, this means that in order to make code more stable, tasks will generally need to go through more APIs from start to finish.

If a software company had an infinite budget, then they would be free to use dangerous and less efficient development techniques. They could flatten all their APIs and run everything in the kernel space. This would definately speed up execution speed. However, this makes debugging a nightmare if not impossible.

Microsoft enjoys incredible economies of scale in comparison with other software firms. Thus, they were able to integrate much of internet explorer's code into the kernel. This is partially why IE runs so fast on Windows but also the reason why IE can crash and not be fixed until a reboot.

I hope Apple chooses to provide an NSHtmlView or some such equivalent. This should be done in a robust manner such that one crashed html-rendering app won't take down other html rendering apps. It should definately run in user space. We can always wait 6 more months for faster machines but chaotic code can remain buggy for many years.

[godzookie2k]

Originally posted by edddeduck:

Code:
requirements for this site:
newest flash plugin
netscape or ie 5.0+
css and php support

So it is not ie only just Not OmniWeb

tried using chimera... didn't work, but don't let me get in the way of a omniweb rip-rant, I love em!

[mrfoxxman]

Come on someone has to KNOW...i just wanted a metal version of Chimera.....anyone know where to get it?

[CheesePuff]

Originally posted by mrfoxxman:
Come on someone has to KNOW...i just wanted a metal version of Chimera.....anyone know where to get it?

Download the source code, change it in IB and then compile it.

[Brass]

Originally posted by CheesePuff:


Download the source code, change it in IB and then compile it.

No need to make it that difficult! Just open the package contents, find the .nib file(s) and open them in Interface Builder. Change the relevent objects to metal, save, quit, relaunch Navigator.

Easy!

(BTW Interface Builder is a free download from Apple)

[Ibson]

Originally posted by CheesePuff:


Download the source code, change it in IB and then compile it.

There's no need to do any of that. Just open up the package, find the browser nib file and tick "Texured Window". mrfoxxman's problem is that he doesn't have the dev tools. So, I opened up the Chimera browse nib and changed it. Download it at
http://acquaminerale.bebto.com/MetalChimera.tgz
After expanding it, control-click on the Chimera icon, choose "Show Package Contents", then copy the file to Contents/Resources/English.lproj/

[KidRed]

Originally posted by Ibson:

There's no need to do any of that. Just open up the package, find the browser nib file and tick "Texured Window". mrfoxxman's problem is that he doesn't have the dev tools. So, I opened up the Chimera browse nib and changed it. Download it at
http://acquaminerale.bebto.com/MetalChimera.tgz
After expanding it, control-click on the Chimera icon, choose "Show Package Contents", then copy the file to Contents/Resources/English.lproj/

Thanks, works great. The only prob is the status bar at the bottom is still aqua and the chimera globe is overlapped by the pull tab.

[mrfoxxman]

Ibson,,

Thanks a million for the post.....works great.; much appreciated....is there any way to make the page fit the window, or is that just what i get for 'jimmy riggin' the interface?

[Ibson]

Originally posted by mrfoxxman:
Ibson,,

Thanks a million for the post.....works great.; much appreciated....is there any way to make the page fit the window, or is that just what i get for 'jimmy riggin' the interface?

I'm sure you can resize it. But...hey, I'm lazy . You could use Pacifist to extract the Interface Builder application and framework then open it up.

[hudson1]

I think Amorph's comments on this subject are the most lucid that I've read. One point that I'd like to add: For many people now, the internet is the center of their computing experience. Following from that, Apple may be concluding that for the Mac to cement its position as the platform with the best user experience, the best internet portals (let me use that term instead of browser) are essential.

Now that's one potential argument for why Apple would/could be working on a 'browser'. But couple that with AOL's interest in Gecko and you can actually put some meat behind the argument, too. If Apple is convinced that AOL is going with Gecko, then you know that rendering engine will have legs in the real world. Webmasters will be forced to insure their code works with it. But for all it's promise, Mozilla/Netscape will probably never be a Mac-like browser -- it's simply not their goal and intent to do that as cross-platform (i.e. not Mac-like) is their thing.

So maybe this is where Dave Hyatt and Chimera come in. Apple takes a rendering engine that they know is good and sustainable and then employs it to make what they think is both the best and most Mac-like internet interface experience -- knowing that Mozilla will never fill that role in a satisfactory fashion.