[Dopetrackalistic]

Seems to me solidworks= photoshop
vectorworks= paint

[himself]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

Seems to me solidworks= photoshop
vectorworks= paint

I'm starting to believe that you've never used Vectorworks before. It is extremely capable, and competes well with AutoCAD, Solidworks, etc. Try it first.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

Seems to me solidworks= photoshop
vectorworks= paint

Seems to me you know nothing about that of which you speak.

[Dopetrackalistic]

I've never used vectorworks, but I've never heard of anybody using vectorworks either.

[demograph68]

MAC VS PC OMG

another thread gone to ****! alert the media!

[Mediaman_12]

Are Mac apps better than Windows apps?
I am continually aggravated (at work) by the lack of app's/utils with a simple UI.
There seams nothing on the Windows side that compares with Toast or Transmit. Every Win equivalent seams packed with seemingly useless features that clutter the interface and distract from the single main use of the app.
e.g. Toast: open app. Select type of disc (Audio, data, video, etc.) and disk type (CD,DVD). Drag files, burn disk.
Nero: Open app. Select from seemingly endless options presented in a multiple tab modal window Use a plainly idiotic FTP style interface to add files to disc. Discover that a tiny icon of a match next to a CD, (hidden among the raft of other similar tiny icons in the toolbar) represents Burn Disk. Get presented with a very similar looking modal window to the one before, Burn disk is a button here.

[ryaxnb]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

PC: All the latest games, engineering software, rending software, alias, cad programs, solidworks, etc


Mac: ....
...

...

..

>crickets<

Troll. For one thing, you really shouldn't be on this site if you hate Macs - you obviously do.

For another thing, your argument makes no sense.
loki74's examples start here -- Originally posted by loki74
-games. who cares? Nobody buys a Mac to play games.
-engineering software. Really, I don't know enough about this one, so I'll give it to you
-rending software. Do you mean rendering software? Hate to break it to ya, but all the best rendering software is also available on Mac. (NextLimit's Maxwell, Worley's Fprime, Kray, PIXAR's RenderMan, Yafray... the only one I can think of that's still PC only is Vray)
-alias. Uh... acquired by Autodesk, duh. And Autodesk has yet to kill any of the Mac versions of Alias's software.
-CAD programs. Okay, I've give you this one--the industry standard CAD apps are PC only... but there are a lot of good CAD options available for Mac as well.
-Solidworks. Who cares? Solidworks isn't some holy grail of graphics computing, like, oh, say Shake, RenderMan, or Maya.
-etc. Uh huh... I suppose you mean:

-Shake (having used both Shake and Combusion, I can say from experience, Shake is far superior)
-Modo (hands down, the best 3D modeling solution, no contest)
-Final Cut Pro (sure you can use Avid, but FCP is much easier)
-DVDSP (really, is there a better DVD app on PC?/loki74

Ok done with loki74.
Now what about casual use programs?
Movie making? iMovie 6, the industry leader (not in sales, I mean the industry follows iMovie's lead,) is only on Mac - and bundled with every mac, or with other great programs for $79, only about $20 more then most moviemaking programs cost alone. iDVD - the best DVD making program, with tons of great pre-made themes, and the ability to define your own. GarageBand and Jam Packs - with tons of pre-made loops, and full audio-in and MIDI support. OmniWeb - With tab drawers, workspaces (the ability to have multiple working eviornments, i.e. sets of windows and restore them even if the browser or computer crashes or is forced to shutdown,) site preferencess, Services support (sending pieces of information to a helper app to do something with it) and more.
iChat- 2-4 person video conferencing w/ H.264 on just a DSL/Cable connection.
QuickTime w/ Flip4Mac - Classic formats like Cinepak, Sorenson, Apple Video, h.261 and DivX:-) and read-only WMV7, and new formats like XviD, MPEG-4, h.264 (best codec yet!,) Pixlet, 3G and with Flip4Mac, Read/write WMV9!
Stone Create
LaunchBar - Launch any app fast. Launch anything or even load anything (even bookmarks) fast!
Quicksilver - Similar to LaunchBar, but slower, clumsier, cheaper, and much more powerful. can manipulate, launch, or change most settings/things in just a few keypresses/typed words!
DragThing - The best Dock-like app ever! Like the Dock, but infinitely more flexible.
DVDManager - FREE dvd management application!
Pages - A simple publishing/light word processing app with a focus on small document publishing.
Keynote - With themes it's like no other presentation app.
More and more are coming!

[Kerrigan]

Yes Rob just got owned by an 8 year old

ryaxnb:


Awesome job dude

[Dopetrackalistic]

Originally Posted by ryaxnb

Troll. For one thing, you really shouldn't be on this site if you hate Macs - you obviously do.

I have been a mac user longer than you have been alive. I owned a windows machine once, for 1 year, and it was a secondary machine, a laptop, sony vaio, purely because i got a good deal on it. I hated windows so much I barely used it, then sold it. I don't hate macs, I was just pointing out that they don't have ALL the best software ALL the time. So... troll. You shouldn't be on this site if you're going to be a total ****ing mac zealot and take anything against the system so personally. Oh wait. There are a lot of zealots around here who can't handle the truth.

For another thing, your argument makes no sense.
loki74's examples start here -- Originally posted by loki74
-games. who cares? Nobody buys a Mac to play games.

Why's that? Oh, because the consumer level macs generally had total ASS for GPUs. They always stuck in outdated graphics card from the get go, this has FINALLY changed with the new iMac and hte X1600. That is the first DECENT Gpu the iMac has ever had, EVER. The first imac came out with a rage IIc, which was pathetic. Then the updated to the already outdated Rage Pro, then the Rage 128 when Geforces were hot, then Geforce 4mxs when Radeons were hot, then 5200s when they were already outclassed by ATi, etc. The reason that NOBODY buys macs ot play games is that in order to game on a mac you had to purcahse a powermac, which = HELLA CASH. A $500 pc could outperform a $2500 powermac until only recently... probably stil would, I haven't checked.

Now what about casual use programs?

I completley agree with you. That's why I didn't mention casual use programs in the PC area. The only advantage to having a PC is the latest games, fastest games, fastest hardware, expandability, and super specific programs that are industry related.

[Dopetrackalistic]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Yes Rob just got owned by an 8 year old

ryaxnb:


Awesome job dude

Not really. I stated that PCs have an edge in super specific fields, and the latest greatest games. They do have an edge here. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Simple as that.

[JoshuaZ]

Eh, does it matter? I mean from all the news I've been reading online apple has been 6 months away from death for the past 25 years.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

Not really. I stated that PCs have an edge in super specific fields, and the latest greatest games. They do have an edge here. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. Simple as that.

So what? Mac apps ARE generally of better quality than equivalent Windows apps, and have at least an equal amount of apps that have acceptable counterparts in the Windows world.

Sucks if you are a mech engineer, architect or hardcore gamer on a mac. But it equally sucks if you are doing photography or video editing on Windows. I would rather gouge out my eyes and put together a braille flipbook than ever edit with Avid again.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Sucks if you are a mech engineer, architect or hardcore gamer on a mac.

So true, without considering virtualization.

[ism]

For the mac using mechanical engineers out there (And I really can't believe there are that many*), things are on the up now that UGS have announced NX on the mac. All is really missing is one of the big FEA codes like Ansys, which would be really easy to port.

* So the moaning is disproportionate. And those mech engs using macs are using them for personal use and really if you need MCAD, FEA, etc you university has computer labs for a reason. It's not like you are trying to make a living doing mechanical engineering and the only hardware option is a mac. That'd be cause for complaint. Plus, do you really want this software on a mac? If it gets ported it'll likely still look and act like a windows app.

[ism]

Comparing something like Toast vs Nero. I'd say at any given time Nero is more powerful and has more features, but Toast is a much more pleasant user experience. So based on this you could say mac apps are better to use as in 'nicer to use', but maybe not better to us as in 'suits the task at hand'

[Dopetrackalistic]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

So what? Mac apps ARE generally of better quality than equivalent Windows apps, and have at least an equal amount of apps that have acceptable counterparts in the Windows world.

Sucks if you are a mech engineer, architect or hardcore gamer on a mac. But it equally sucks if you are doing photography or video editing on Windows. I would rather gouge out my eyes and put together a braille flipbook than ever edit with Avid again.

Agree 100%. Which is why everything I've said does not clash with what you've said. Again, I was just pointing out that macs don't have the best software for every needed application or field.

[Dopetrackalistic]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

So true, without considering virtualization.

Virtualization and gaming? HAha. I hope you were kidding.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by ism

Comparing something like Toast vs Nero. I'd say at any given time Nero is more powerful and has more features, but Toast is a much more pleasant user experience. So based on this you could say mac apps are better to use as in 'nicer to use', but maybe not better to us as in 'suits the task at hand'

I've found a number of Windows applications to have more features... but their Mac counterparts are more "usable"

A feature is only valuable if you can use it. To many novice computer users, they don't use ANY of the advanced or even non-basic features of Windows applications because they don't know how.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

There is no ****ing autocad for the mac. Hence, it is not a great platform. There is no solidworks, no autocad, and most of alias's field specific apps do not run in OSX. Period.

Originally Posted by Doptrackalistic

Agree 100%. Which is why everything I've said does not clash with what you've said. Again, I was just pointing out that macs don't have the best software for every needed application or field.

You said the Mac is not a great platform. I don't think I've ever seen you enter a thread and actually agree with what's being said. You'll take the opposite side just to argue.

You change your tune quite often.

Originally Posted by Dope

The reason that NOBODY buys macs ot play games is that in order to game on a mac you had to purcahse a powermac, which = HELLA CASH.

And I'm sure it has nothing to do with comparatively few games made for the Mac. Granted, the big ones are there, but most often the performance is weaker and one has to wait several months after the PC version is out.

[Dopetrackalistic]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You said the Mac is not a great platform. I don't think I've ever seen you enter a thread and actually agree with what's being said. You'll take the opposite side just to argue.

You change your tune quite often.

Sorry. I meant it's not a perfect platform. I think the mac is a great platform for most everything I do. You got me though, I used the wrong word.

And I'm sure it has nothing to do with comparatively few games made for the Mac. Granted, the big ones are there, but most often the performance is weaker and one has to wait several months after the PC version is out.

Orrrr... is it the other way. The mac library sucks because all the consumer level macs can't play modern games in the first place, so the mac marketshare is small, the marketshare of that marketshare that can play games is pretty much powermacs, which is even smaller, so small in fact that developers didn't bother bringing games to the mac market since only powermacs could play them. It's a chicken and the egg argument, but it WILL CHANGE as long as apple keeps putting decent videocards into their consumer lineup.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

Orrrr... is it the other way. The mac library sucks because all the consumer level macs can't play modern games in the first place, so the mac marketshare is small, the marketshare of that marketshare that can play games is pretty much powermacs, which is even smaller, so small in fact that developers didn't bother bringing games to the mac market since only powermacs could play them. It's a chicken and the egg argument, but it WILL CHANGE as long as apple keeps putting decent videocards into their consumer lineup.

I'm floored! Civility in your posts!
Honestly, you've brought up good discussion points in a courteous manner, this is good!

Another problem lies in weak ports for Macs. With games being optimized for Windows, performance on Macs with equal hardware is usually slower. I suppose with Boot Camp these problems should be gone though. Anyone that likes games and Macs enough can spring for an Intel Mac and a copy of XP.

[Dopetrackalistic]

Well... again... performance is slower because the market is smaller, so there is a lot less optimization. Also, the hardware selection for the mac segment in general has left a lot to be desired... all the consumer level macs have a NON upgradeable videocard, so if one DID like the mac, and DID want to play a game decently, they had to get a whole new machine. That's unlikely. So throw in a lot less GPU choices, less optimization, and very very small marketshare..... gaming on a mac kinda stinks. However, like I said, I think that the new iMac is groundbreaking as it is the FIRST consumer level mac apple has produced that has a pretty powerful graphics card from the get-go. That puppy should be able to play most modern games pretty decently, and if they (apple) continues this trend I think the mac gaming market will have a second coming.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Dopetrackalistic

Well... again... performance is slower because the market is smaller, so there is a lot less optimization. Also, the hardware selection for the mac segment in general has left a lot to be desired... all the consumer level macs have a NON upgradeable videocard, so if one DID like the mac, and DID want to play a game decently, they had to get a whole new machine. That's unlikely. So throw in a lot less GPU choices, less optimization, and very very small marketshare..... gaming on a mac kinda stinks. However, like I said, I think that the new iMac is groundbreaking as it is the FIRST consumer level mac apple has produced that has a pretty powerful graphics card from the get-go. That puppy should be able to play most modern games pretty decently, and if they (apple) continues this trend I think the mac gaming market will have a second coming.

Agreed. I remember trying to play games on my iMac DV/400.
I could play Quake 3, Oni, Driver, the original UT, and not much else. Deus Ex was laaaagy, I don't even remember what else I tried. Maybe 4x4 Evolution, some others.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by loki74

-alias. Uh... acquired by Autodesk, duh. And Autodesk has yet to kill any of the Mac versions of Alias's software.

It's coming. They've dropped nearly all phone support for the Mac version of Maya 7 Server, as we found out the hard way.

AutoDesk is like Valve. They're Microsoft's hoes and they're gonna get slapped if they don't drop Mac support.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You change your tune quite often.

There is a reason for that.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika

What about VectorWorks?

Looking at the brochure, it seems to only cover architecture and interior design.

Originally Posted by ism

Plus, do you really want this software on a mac? If it gets ported it'll likely still look and act like a windows app.

It would probably still look and act like the X Windows app it started out as, just like the Windows version.
I'm looking at you, Gambit and ANSYS.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Agreed. I remember trying to play games on my iMac DV/400.
I could play Quake 3, Oni, Driver, the original UT, and not much else. Deus Ex was laaaagy, I don't even remember what else I tried. Maybe 4x4 Evolution, some others.

Carmageddon and Star Wars Pod Racer ran fine on mine.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell

Looking at the brochure, it seems to only cover architecture and interior design.

I know at least one product designer who uses it regularly.

[ism]

Originally Posted by analogika

I know at least one product designer who uses it regularly.

Product design (more interesting, creative, arty) isn't the same as mechanical design engineering (more dull, boring, grey).

The only MCAD app that I'm aware of (until UGS gets NX out): Cobalt (and even that's skewed towards product design and piece part design rather than large assemblies.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by analogika

Carmageddon and Star Wars Pod Racer ran fine on mine.

Oh yeah, I played those too! I liked Star Wars much better on the computer than the N64. I also had Red Faction and The Sims. Good times.

[LordOfSkirts]

I've heard from many people that Cobalt sucks major ...wang.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogika

Carmageddon and Star Wars Pod Racer ran fine on mine.

Deus Ex worked just fine on my G3/400...

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by goMac

Deus Ex worked just fine on my G3/400...

iMac? Weird. I had it up to 640MB of RAM when I finally got my iBook in late '04. Maybe I just misremember it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

iMac? Weird. I had it up to 640MB of RAM when I finally got my iBook in late '04. Maybe I just misremember it.

I ran it on both an iMac and a tower. It worked fine. The iMac only had 256 megs of RAM. The quality wasn't as high as on my tower, but it worked without issue.

[LordOfSkirts]

Originally Posted by goMac

Deus Ex worked just fine on my G3/400...

I had Deus Ex running on my franken imac 600mhz Harmoni upgrade and 8 meg voodoo2 microconversions card with 512 megs of ram, and it was definitely playable, but still choppy in some areas (club scene, 1st level)

[- - e r i k - -]

I wish there was a Deus X client for OS X

I loved that game. (Which ran excellent on my G4 400)

[goMac]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I wish there was a Deus X client for OS X

I loved that game. (Which ran excellent on my G4 400)

From quotes Aspyr has made, it seemed like they had an OS X port going, and were waiting on authorization from Ion Storm Austin to release the new port. Sadly, Ion Storm Austin kicked the bucket after Deus Ex 2's miserable showing.

[GodOfSkirts]

Originally Posted by goMac

From quotes Aspyr has made, it seemed like they had an OS X port going, and were waiting on authorization from Ion Storm Austin to release the new port. Sadly, Ion Storm Austin kicked the bucket after Deus Ex 2's miserable showing.

So if they kicked the bucket doesn't that mean they should just go ahead and do it? After all, who could sue them? A company that doesn't exist? Not likely.

[GodOfSkirts]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I wish there was a Deus X client for OS X

I loved that game. (Which ran excellent on my G4 400)

What video card?

[- - e r i k - -]

It came stock with ATI Rage Pro 128. I think I played mainly on that, but I changed the videocard later to a Radeon 8500 which should have helped it a bit