[tavilach]

Well, I decided to order the Shuttle XPC, but I can't tell the difference between the SB61G2 V4 and the SS58G2 (http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Ba...rb_default.asp. The former is a tad more expensive: Is it better? I have a Pentium 4 processor that I'm going to be using.

Also, the SS56Gv3 seems very nice, and I can't see why it's over $50 cheaper than the other two. Any ideas? I don't really understand all the hardware mumbo jumbo. And I can't believe I just referred to technical information as "mumbo jumbo."

I'm just looking for the best one to run 512MB or 1GB of DDR RAM, a 120GB HD, a 2.53GHz P4, and a 128MB ATI Radeon 9700 (DVI).

Thanks in advance .

[Salty]

Those things are still really big... no where near as small as a mini by the looks of em... I still don't know why you really want a PC though...

[tavilach]

I know exactly how big they are, and I know my reasons for wanting one. I just can't decide which one to get. I like the looks of the first two I mentioned, but there are five that seem like viable options:

SS56G
SB77G5
SS58G2
SB61G2 V4
SS56Gv3

They all support the Pentium 4 and an AGP graphics card. I would appreciate some help in distinguishing them, because frankly, I'm totally clueless! I don't mind spending a little more for a better machine, but at the same time, I don't want to go overboard with a computer that I'll only use every so often.

[Salty]

Why not ask for help on a forum... for Shuttle users then?

[glyph]

I think the main difference is the SS58G2 uses the Socket 775 processor whereas the SB61G2 uses the Socket 478 processor. 775 is more desirable because it is the latest generation hardware. (the numbers 775 and 478 are the number of pins on the processor)

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by Salty

Why not ask for help on a forum... for Shuttle users then?

I'd like to stick to the topic, if that's alright with you.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by glyph

I think the main difference is the SS58G2 uses the Socket 775 processor whereas the SB61G2 uses the Socket 478 processor. 775 is more desirable because it is the latest generation hardware. (the numbers 775 and 478 are the number of pins on the processor)

What exactly does that mean, though? Does it imply a speed difference? A reliability difference?

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by tavilach

What exactly does that mean, though? Does it imply a speed difference? A reliability difference?

It means get the one that supports the processor that you already have.

[glyph]

Well, it'll run faster - depending on the how much you want to spend on a processor.....I don't know about reliability.

You said you already have the processor - see whether it is a socket 478 or 775 ect. - that'll narrow your choice somewhat.

[tavilach]

As I said, I'm totally clueless when it comes to checking these things. I can describe the exact system that I have: Dell 8250 P4 2.53 GHz. Perhaps it can be found online? I saw a mentioning of the 478 chipset, but I need to know for certain.

Is there any way to check on the software side? I downloaded Intel's Chipset Identification Utility, and all it says is that my processor is of the Intel 850 chipset family. Is that chipset compatible with all the Shuttles, or only some? I can't figure that out.

Sorry about my ignorance .

[jcadam]

Originally Posted by tavilach

I know exactly how big they are, and I know my reasons for wanting one. I just can't decide which one to get. I like the looks of the first two I mentioned, but there are five that seem like viable options:

SS56G
SB77G5
SS58G2
SB61G2 V4
SS56Gv3

They all support the Pentium 4 and an AGP graphics card. I would appreciate some help in distinguishing them, because frankly, I'm totally clueless! I don't mind spending a little more for a better machine, but at the same time, I don't want to go overboard with a computer that I'll only use every so often.

I especially like the imaginative names Shuttle uses for their different models. It's worse than the cornucopia of PowerMac models we had back in the '90s.

[Judge_Fire]

One is for Intel processors and the other for AMD ones.


Sidenote: Hopefully Apple going Intel allows them to ship a pro Mac with a smaller chassis... Shuttle has got it just right

J

[Gamoe]

I like the Shuttle form factor. I bought a BioStar unit once-- made a nice Linux machine with an AMD 2500 Athlon XP.

[ghporter]

There are two issues here. First, some of the machines on that page support the newest P4s while others support the older ones, so you need to know which chip you have on hand right now before you start narrowing down your choices.

The second issue is whether or not the boxes you're interested in provide space for full height AGP cards or only low profile cards. Not all manufacturers make their AGP cards so you can change the backplane header plate, so this is important in helping you decide what video card to use.

They almost all seem to have integrated video as well. While a cost saving feature, it also eats up your RAM, and I haven't seen a board with integrated video that let you turn it completely OFF so you could recover all that RAM. Let's face it, if you're running a RAM intensive process even a minimal 8MB of RAM that you can't get back from the video system is going to hurt. I gave up on PC motherboards with integrated video for that reason.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by ghporter

They almost all seem to have integrated video as well. While a cost saving feature, it also eats up your RAM, and I haven't seen a board with integrated video that let you turn it completely OFF so you could recover all that RAM.

This is interesting. So, even if you're not using the built-in graphics/video and using a video card instead it would still rob you of some RAM?

[effgee]

If you have a Pentium 4 2.53GHz, chances are >90% that it is a socket 478 CPU - triple-check this and make sure you buy a Shuttle with the appropriate socket or your CPU wil not fit in the socket on the motherboard.

I got a SB61G2 w/a P4 2.4GHz as a gift yesterday and while the architecture of any socket 478 computer (be it a Shuttle box or otherwise) is not the newest, they'll provide plenty of snappines for your purposes. My "new" SB61G is running happily @ 3GHz with 2GB of RAM and a fanless nVidia 6600GT, which runs @ 1120MHz - plenty fast for anything but maybe the very latest games at the highest quality settings.

Personally, methinks that the G series look nicer than the older SB61G but those aren't available with the socket you (most likely) need. Neither are the roomier "P" models.

Btw, there's currently no Shuttle that would require you to use a low-profile AGP card - all standard size AGP/PCIe (depending on model) cards will fit without problems (I have an nVidia 6800 running in my Shuttle SB81P after tossing out a x800xt, and there's plenty of room to spare)

And another "btw" - the onboard video of the SB61G as well as that of the SB81P can of course be turned off completely.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

This is interesting. So, even if you're not using the built-in graphics/video and using a video card instead it would still rob you of some RAM?

Yep. On every single motherboard with integrated video that I've ever seen. At least some of them will go down to 8MB, but that's the lowest I've seen. This may be useful in a multi-monitor situation, but in general it's a pain.

[Judge_Fire]

Edit : Blah

J

[tavilach]

I've found that I have socket mPGA-478, and chipset i850E. Thus, narrowing it down to the Shuttles with Intel support, AGP and socket 478, these three are left:

SB61G2 V4 ($255.00)
SS56Gv3 ($180.00)
SS56G (Not on Newegg.com)

Again, I'm going to be sticking in my processor, an ATI Radeon 9700, and a 120GB HD.

So, I guess the SS56G is an older model that I shouldn't factor into the equation? If that's the case, what are the main differences between the other two? I'm trying to figure out if the $70 extra is worth it: The SB is prettier, but I don't know if it's $70 prettier .

[effgee]

Originally Posted by tavilach

... So, I guess the SS56G is an older model that I shouldn't factor into the equation? If that's the case, what are the main differences between the other two? I'm trying to figure out if the $70 extra is worth it: The SB is prettier, but I don't know if it's $70 prettier .

Easy as pie ... definitely get the SB61G2, here's the most important reasons:

• Silent X PSU makes the SB61G2 a lot quieter.
• 250W PSU will be able to accommodate another upgrade or two, whereas the other box only has a 200W PSU. Of course, the 200W will easily accomodate what you have right now but it might be cutting it rather close if you ever want to upgrade the video card, for example.
• The SB61G2 has two SATA headers, so you can upgrade the HD with a modern/fast drive if necessary.
• The SB61G2 supports Prescott core Pentium 4 processors - if you ever need to upgrade the CPU, they're going to be easier to find than the Northwood core accepted by the SS56G which are already becoming somewhat hard to find.

Decision made, go and get the SB61G2 ...

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by effgee

Easy as pie ... definitely get the SB61G2, here's the most important reasons:

• Silent X PSU makes the SB61G2 a lot quieter.
• 250W PSU will be able to accommodate another upgrade or two, whereas the other box only has a 200W PSU. Of course, the 200W will easily accomodate what you have right now but it might be cutting it rather close if you ever want to upgrade the video card, for example.
• The SB61G2 has two SATA headers, so you can upgrade the HD with a modern/fast drive if necessary.
• The SB61G2 supports Prescott core Pentium 4 processors - if you ever need to upgrade the CPU, they're going to be easier to find than the Northwood core accepted by the SS56G which are already becoming somewhat hard to find.

Decision made, go and get the SB61G2 ...

Tempting, but $70 is $70 . What if I wanted to upgrade to a socket 775 processor? Would a new Shuttle motherboard cost a lot? If I can't upgrade to a much better processor, then I don't really see myself upgrading at all. Of course, I might have it all wrong. In any case, quiet is huge in my book.

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Salty

Why not ask for help on a forum... for Shuttle users then?

Odd... yet you complain when people tell you to get a blog, where most of your posts belong.

This a public forum, people can post what they want. Within rule limitations of course

[tavilach]

Are 2.8GHz processors worth nothing anymore? What if I just got this, and then a SS58G2 (socket 775)? That would solve future upgrade issues, correct? What is the best place to buy a processor? Are they usually that cheap?

What's annoying is that if I go that route, then the only things I'll be pulling from my Dell are the graphics card and hard drive. Hah.

[jasonsRX7]

If you're going to so far as to replace that much, just go to Newegg and build yourself an Athlon based Shuttle (or similar) PC. Include an OEM Windows XP copy so you'll be legal, and be done with it.

[tavilach]

Well, apparently socket 775 Pentiums are over $100 on Newegg, so something must not be right with that eBay item I mentioned.

Screw upgrading, at least to socket 775. Of course, if I'm not going to upgrade at all in the future, the SS56G looks very nice.

Would my next upgrade probably involve a socket 775 processor, or is that not going to be mainstream for a while?

I mean, all I'm going to be using this computer for is web testing and perhaps, in the future, some engineering programs.

[jasonsRX7]

Are you not considering an AMD system? You'll generally be able to build one a good deal cheaper, with comparable or better performance. Save yourself trouble and only use Nvidia based chipsets, though.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

Are you not considering an AMD system? You'll generally be able to build one a good deal cheaper, with comparable or better performance. Save yourself trouble and only use Nvidia based chipsets, though.

The good ones are still over $100, so it's a moot point.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Would my next upgrade probably involve a socket 775 processor, or is that not going to be mainstream for a while?.

Socket 775 is the mainstream now. My machine is a Socket 775, and I hardly had to think twice about it when I was looking at parts.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by goMac

Socket 775 is the mainstream now. My machine is a Socket 775, and I hardly had to think twice about it when I was looking at parts.

Hrm. Well, if I really wanted to upgrade to a Socket 775 processor later on, it would only take a $100 motherboard upgrade, correct (aside from the processor itself)? Of course, I'm not sure where I'd get that.

I definetely think my processor is beyond fine at the moment, but I don't want to be stuck unable to upgrade...

[effgee]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Hrm. Well, if I really wanted to upgrade to a Socket 775 processor later on, it would only take a $100 motherboard upgrade, correct (aside from the processor itself)? Of course, I'm not sure where I'd get that. ...

Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Windows PCs, where tomorrow's fastest PC is next week's outdated hunk of metal/plastic, aka "door stop". Like it or not, you're going to have to keep in mind that:

• you are looking for a PC that can accommodate your already "outdated" components (socket 478 is over two years old, AGP is being replaced by PCIe, your RAM is getting long in the tooth as well, and your video card isn't even being used in laptops anymore). If you transfer that to the Mac world, that'd be like saying you have a G4 processor sitting on your desk and expect to get a computer that not only needs to be dirt cheap but must also accomodate this year's G5 and possibly even next year's Intel processors - that ain't going to fly.
• buying a "future-proof" Windows PC (an oxymoron if I ever heard one), is a lot more complicated than looking at the CPU socket. Case in point: while my (almost) $400 SB81P, which was released last summer (or so), does have a 775 socket, it will never run Intel's latest CPUs (dual core) because those require not only a 775 socket but also an Intel 955 chip set. And at the moment, there's only one Shuttle with such a chip set, the just released SD31P. Send your thank you cards to the CPU manufacturers Intel and AMD, who seem to change chip sets more often than average people change their underwear.

My recommendation stands - go with the SB61G2 for now and use it for another year and a half - you'll be perfectly fine. I promise you right now (in writing, if necessary) that the fan noise from the SS56 alone will make you regret your purchase after a week, not to mention the other points I already talked about in my previous post.

And btw, in best "Apple tradition", Shuttle does not sell motherboards. If that is what you want, a Shuttle is not the way to go. But I can also promise you that you won't find a single motherboard from another manufacturer that can make use of the components you have today and will be upgrade-proof (socket/chip set/video/RAM) - such a thing does (to the best of my knowledge) not exist.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Judge_Fire

Sidenote: Hopefully Apple going Intel allows them to ship a pro Mac with a smaller chassis... Shuttle has got it just right

J

It was called the "cube". And I think it had a Motorola processor.

[mitchell_pgh]

Just buy a crap dell and hide it under your desk.

[Maflynn]

Did you check out if shuttle has a support site or FAQ or something that helps explain things?

I think the concensus of the replies here are that the turn over for PCs are quite high. I wouldn't put too much obsessing into it. Life is too short, just buy what will fit your needs and be happy?

btw are you dumping your PB or just getting a desktop for games or other applications?

[Judge_Fire]

Originally Posted by Railroader

It was called the "cube". And I think it had a Motorola processor.

I know - I have one

J

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by effgee

Welcome to the "wonderful" world of Windows PCs, where tomorrow's fastest PC is next week's outdated hunk of metal/plastic, aka "door stop". Like it or not, you're going to have to keep in mind that:

• you are looking for a PC that can accommodate your already "outdated" components (socket 478 is over two years old, AGP is being replaced by PCIe, your RAM is getting long in the tooth as well, and your video card isn't even being used in laptops anymore). If you transfer that to the Mac world, that'd be like saying you have a G4 processor sitting on your desk and expect to get a computer that not only needs to be dirt cheap but must also accomodate this year's G5 and possibly even next year's Intel processors - that ain't going to fly.
• buying a "future-proof" Windows PC (an oxymoron if I ever heard one), is a lot more complicated than looking at the CPU socket. Case in point: while my (almost) $400 SB81P, which was released last summer (or so), does have a 775 socket, it will never run Intel's latest CPUs (dual core) because those require not only a 775 socket but also an Intel 955 chip set. And at the moment, there's only one Shuttle with such a chip set, the just released SD31P. Send your thank you cards to the CPU manufacturers Intel and AMD, who seem to change chip sets more often than average people change their underwear.

My recommendation stands - go with the SB61G2 for now and use it for another year and a half - you'll be perfectly fine. I promise you right now (in writing, if necessary) that the fan noise from the SS56 alone will make you regret your purchase after a week, not to mention the other points I already talked about in my previous post.

And btw, in best "Apple tradition", Shuttle does not sell motherboards. If that is what you want, a Shuttle is not the way to go. But I can also promise you that you won't find a single motherboard from another manufacturer that can make use of the components you have today and will be upgrade-proof (socket/chip set/video/RAM) - such a thing does (to the best of my knowledge) not exist.

Amazingly valid points: I'm sold on the SB61G2. Thanks for all the help. Off to buy my new Shuttle .

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Did you check out if shuttle has a support site or FAQ or something that helps explain things?

I think the concensus of the replies here are that the turn over for PCs are quite high. I wouldn't put too much obsessing into it. Life is too short, just buy what will fit your needs and be happy?

btw are you dumping your PB or just getting a desktop for games or other applications?

Agreed about buying what fits my needs, especially in the PC world. No way in hell am I dumping my PB: This is for web testing and the ability to run PC apps if necessary.

[tavilach]

By the way, I'm assuming that my Intel i850E is compatible with the SB61G2 v4? I'm ordering now, because I can't imagine that it isn't, but if I'm wrong, please correct me!

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by tavilach

By the way, I'm assuming that my Intel i850E is compatible with the SB61G2 v4? I'm ordering now, because I can't imagine that it isn't, but if I'm wrong, please correct me!

OMG wait you're wrong!












just kidding.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by tavilach

By the way, I'm assuming that my Intel i850E is compatible with the SB61G2 v4? I'm ordering now, because I can't imagine that it isn't, but if I'm wrong, please correct me!

Have you tried actually contacting Shuttle? I know this runs contrary to everything you may already know, but give it a try.

[effgee]

Originally Posted by tavilach

By the way, I'm assuming that my Intel i850E is compatible with the SB61G2 v4? I'm ordering now, because I can't imagine that it isn't, but if I'm wrong, please correct me!

You should be just fine ... here's a link to Shuttle's compatibility list for the SB61G2 v4 (the Pentium 4, 2.53GHz is listed there).

The parts listed therein are the ones Shuttle actually tested - as long as the components you have are in line with the slot/mobo specs, they're (most likely) going to work - e.g., none of the RAM sticks I use in my two Shuttles are listed in the either of the respective compatibility list but they work without any problems.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by tavilach

Hrm. Well, if I really wanted to upgrade to a Socket 775 processor later on, it would only take a $100 motherboard upgrade, correct (aside from the processor itself)? Of course, I'm not sure where I'd get that.

I definetely think my processor is beyond fine at the moment, but I don't want to be stuck unable to upgrade...

Just get a Athlon 64 and Athlon based PC

[goMac]

Hm, I'm going to opposite direction, selling my PC to buy an Intel Mac down the road.