[jhhcr]

After 8 month my 15GB ipod is only running for 1-2 hours on a full charge. Well, thought I have 12 month of waranty (as stated on my receipt), so I went to the local Apple store ( Cambridge, MA and was told they test it, and if it runs on two days under 4 hours, they will replace the battery for 29.99 plus tax, for free if its under 6 month old. So there is only a 6 month waranty on the battery. Obviously ticked off I asked were that was stated in writing, but was told by the Mac genius that I have waranty. it just cost me 29.99. He also recommened to join the class action suite if I am not willing to take the gratious offer to hand over more money to apple to have my iPod fixed during the warrany period. Could any one point me to the ipod class action web page? That they charge even during waranty means they have a problem which is too expensive to fix and they are willing to sacrifice the costumers they tick off by this. Since you can buy the battery else where for 40 bucks, they probably even make money with it. Try calling apple support on this, but thats another nightmare. What a rip off. Thanks for the help.

[FXWizard]

Originally posted by jhhcr:That they charge even during waranty means they have a problem which is too expensive to fix and they are willing to sacrifice the costumers they tick off by this.

Or perhaps it's that all batteries will degrade over time, and it could be considered normal wear and tear?

[King_Rat]

Originally posted by FXWizard:
Or perhaps it's that all batteries will degrade over time, and it could be considered normal wear and tear?

If it were to be considered normal wear and tear then Apple would need to make the battery easily replaceable or make it clear when you buy it that the battery can be expected to fail, thus ending the useful life of the iPod. Either way they would need to make it clear in the warranty statement that battery is only partly covered after 6 months.

Anyway, I would recommend calling Apple if you have not already just to make sure that the store was not making things up. I wish that Apple was better about the battery issue; it is by far the #1 drawback of the iPod. Hopefully they will clue in and make the rev 4 iPod have a hot-swappable Li battery.

[His Dudeness]

Originally posted by FXWizard:
Or perhaps it's that all batteries will degrade over time, and it could be considered normal wear and tear?

My iPod is in the same condition. Sorry, but batteries don't degrade that fast. And what exactly is normal wear and tear on a battery? How do you "wear and tear" something that you can't even touch, like the iPod's batter?

[Daracle]

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
How do you "wear and tear" something that you can't even touch, like the iPod's batter?

[Bryans]

Originally posted by His Dudeness:
[B How do you "wear and tear" something that you can't even touch, like the iPod's batter? [/B]

you 'wear and tear' the batter by using it, dude.

[m2bored]

No way...batteries are not subjected to normal "wear and tear".

This phrase cannot be applied to a battery inside of a device!!!
Wear and tear refers to physical problems do to normal use of the object.

Decrease in value of an asset due to obsolescence or use....the battery is meant to last 500 battery charging cycles...This means it is to remain fully useful for this long...

The question is...at what point is the battery not useful?
Is apple saying that one hour is useful? 2 hours?...

[Person Man]

Originally posted by jhhcr:
Since you can buy the battery else where for 40 bucks, they probably even make money with it. Try calling apple support on this, but thats another nightmare. What a rip off. Thanks for the help.

Um, if you can buy a battery elsewhere for $40, how is $29.99 + tax making them money with it?

Sounds like having them install the new battery for you is cheaper and easier than paying $40 and having to install it yourself, with potentially less than pleasing results aesthetically.

[mbryda]

Yes it is normal wear and tear. If you recharge once a day, 500 cycles is about 1.5 years....

Batteries degrade in performance as they are used. Same as how you must replace the battery in your car every 3-5 years.

And there are plenty of devices with built in batteries that cost as much. I bought a $400 Tungsten with a nonreplaceable battery, but I took the 3 year Best Buy warranty, because I know I'll need it sometime. Sony Clie's and the other PPC's also mainly have internal batteries.

It's not only Apple's fault, it's just something we have to deal with.

[Musti]

Originally posted by mbryda:
It's not only Apple's fault, it's just something we have to deal with.

sigh. Like the Wallstreet hinges, defective iBook boards, noisy PowerMac G4s, flaking TiBook paint jobs, white spots on AluBooks...to name a few.

I've got nothing but good after-sale support from Apple, to be frank. However, I still wish I hadn't needed it in the first place.

[mbryda]

Originally posted by Musti:
sigh. Like the Wallstreet hinges, defective iBook boards, noisy PowerMac G4s, flaking TiBook paint jobs, white spots on AluBooks...to name a few.

I've got nothing but good after-sale support from Apple, to be frank. However, I still wish I hadn't needed it in the first place.

The difference is that those are all defects in the hardware, batteries do wear out, which is not a defect.

When my Palm's battery finally bites the dust I won't be suing Palm or anything like that. I'll either take it back to Best Buy (if in the 3 year warranty period) or crack the sucker open and replace it. No biggie - I knew the thing had a battery and at some point it would wear out - one of the reasons I took BB's $49 3 year warranty.

It sucks that these batteries are nonreplaceable, but you should have known that going in. If not, it's your fault for not researching the $300-500 piece of hardware you purchased. Now, if these batteries are failing after only 100 cycles, that's clearly a manufacturing defect.

I have a FP iMac - should I sue Apple when my hard drive dies or the backlight goes out? No way - those are all parts that wear out and I'll deal with them when they die. If I left my computer up 24/7, that would be quicker than if I used it for an hour a day and shut it down.

[m2bored]

The problem is that apple never says "these batteries will last for 9 hours for 100 cycles...then 6 hours for 100...then 2 hours for the remaining 300"

My problem is with the rate od degredation.
It makes apple's original 9 hour (i cant remember if its 8, 9 , 10...) claim invalid

[mika]

The battery will die, even without use, within a certain period of time. The chemicals inside will go through their normal redox chemical reaction. After a certain time, the internal resistance will be such that even if the battery has NEVER been used, it will no longer charge or hold a (usefull) charge. Your iPod battery is guarantied to die within 3 years (tops) from the day it was made.


Edit:
Apple knows this, and has deliberately designed the iPod so as to fleece it customers on this issue. A class law suite is exactly what they should be facing. Now, where's Nader when you need him?!

[mbryda]

Originally posted by mika:
Edit:
Apple knows this, and has deliberately designed the iPod so as to fleece it customers on this issue. A class law suite is exactly what they should be facing. Now, where's Nader when you need him?!

So we should also sue Palm - most of the recent Palms use non-replaceable batteries, same with Sony's Clie's and most PPC's. Or we can also sue some other MP3 player manufacturers who use non-replaceable batteries.

[mika]

What's really irksome to me regards this scummy tactic, is that it was us, Apple's loyal consumer base who fanatically supported Apple regardless, because we believed Apple was better than that.

[saranwarp]

Paying $29.99 to replace a battery seems quite reasonable to me...

[mika]

That's the price when the iPod is still supposedly under the 1 year warranty. After that 1 year period is up, be prepared to pay considerably more. In fact, having the battery replaced by Apple is so expensive ($250), that buying a whole new iPod becomes an attractive proposition.

http://ipodsdirtysecret.com

[mdc]

http://www.info.apple.com/support/ap...d_service.html

Out-Of-Warranty Pricing
Price includes:
- Repair: $249.00 USD Replacement: labor, parts, and a 90-day guarantee on materials and workmanship, plus $6.95 USD shipping. $255.95 USD total.
- Battery Service: $99.00 USD: labor, parts, and a 90-day guarantee on materials and workmanship, plus $6.95 shipping. $105.95 USD total.

am i reading that correctly?
$256 for a repair of your ipod
$106 for a new battery

[Nebrie]

Why does this topic continue to come up again and again?

http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/

If $99 is too much for a new battery and labor, ask Apple to outsource everyone to China. People don't want slave labor products but they sure as hell don't want to pay for anything more.

http://www.apple.com/contact/

Originally posted by mika:
That's the price when the iPod is still supposedly under the 1 year warranty. After that 1 year period is up, be prepared to pay considerably more. In fact, having the battery replaced by Apple is so expensive ($250), that buying a whole new iPod becomes an attractive proposition.

http://ipodsdirtysecret.com

[simonjames]

I can't believe that there are people here standing up for Apple!

The iPod has a design flaw (or perhaps a feature Apple actually wanted) in that the battery cannot be replaced by the consumer.

I had a similar thing happen to my $400AUD Sony discman - the batteries died after 18 months and I found that the Sony replacement batteries were $50AUD each. Fortunately I found no-name batteries for half that price and now enjoy my discman again. At least I could replace the batteries myself and not have to fork out $200AUD for a $600AUD iPod like Aussie iPod owners find themselves having to.

I also found (on the net) how to use the batteries to get the maximum life out of them - something Sony never told me and I am sure something Apple never told iPod owners.

[-Q-]

Originally posted by simonjames:
The iPod has a design flaw (or perhaps a feature Apple actually wanted) in that the battery cannot be replaced by the consumer.

The iPod battery can indeed be changed by a consumer. And it's truly not that hard. The most difficult step is find a nice flat tool to use so you don't mar the surface of the iPod itself.

As it stands, I've had my iPod for 2 years now and still get over 8 hours of battery life. If and when it begins to fade, I'll order a new one. People are far too willing to scream lawsuit nowadays.

[Drakino]

If he gets a user installable battery from somewhere, he instantly kills his iPod warranty by opening it up.

Yes, batteries do degrade over time, but not 80% in 8 months. Not unless he was constantly draining it and recharging it 24 hours a day during that time.

Regarding wear and tear. Driving your car puts wear and tear on the engine even when you never touch it. Your hard drive suffers wear and tear from being used inside the iPod. And the battery suffers wear and tear from being recharged and drained. But yes, I agree, this is unusual, and if the iPod warranty does not have a battery exception, it should be covered for 12 months too.

[simonjames]

According to what I read completely discharging this type of battery harms it and to keep the battery going longer it should be used for at least an hour every few weeks.

As to the iPod I've read that recharging the unit using a recharger and not the firewire cable will enhance battery life. I don't know how they worked this out but I've read it a couple of times in different places.

Simple instructions - why can't they be included in the iPod instructions manual.

[kpne1home]

Originally posted by -Q-:
The iPod battery can indeed be changed by a consumer. And it's truly not that hard. The most difficult step is find a nice flat tool to use so you don't mar the surface of the iPod itself.

As it stands, I've had my iPod for 2 years now and still get over 8 hours of battery life. If and when it begins to fade, I'll order a new one. People are far too willing to scream lawsuit nowadays.

Where did you get a battery for the ipod? Is there a website that can show how to replace it and is there one where you can buy a new battery. I'd like to look into this incase mine ever dies out.

[kpne1home]

OK nvm i found one, http://www.ipodbattery.com/

[pliny]

The problem with all the arguments about the iPod battery being subject to normal "wear and tear", and thus it being legitimate for Apple charging money to replace it, even as much as $99, is that the iPod user's guide clearly states that "The iPod nonremovable internal battery was designed to last for the lifetime of the product." (p. 54)

This seems like a manufacturer's warranty to me. A warranty that does not seem on its face subject to claims about "normal wear and tear," which generally applies to exterior problems.

All the posters suggesting that it is fine for the battery to die after 1 year, aren't suggesting that the life of the iPod is one year, are you?

[piracy]

Guys, WTF?

http://ipodbatteryfaq.com/

Get your facts straight.

[piracy]

Originally posted by mika:
That's the price when the iPod is still supposedly under the 1 year warranty. After that 1 year period is up, be prepared to pay considerably more. In fact, having the battery replaced by Apple is so expensive ($250), that buying a whole new iPod becomes an attractive proposition.

http://ipodsdirtysecret.com

Completely wrong. The battery is covered under the warranty, and the OUT-of-warranty price to replace the battery is $99. Of course, this ignores the numerous third-party replacements for as little as under $50.

Please, read http://ipodbatteryfaq.com/ and know what you're talking about before you post again.

[pliny]

Didn't the $99 replacement come fee only after after a lot of complaints and threats by people in response to Apple saying if the battery'd died, buy a new iPod because the replacement cost is $250 anyway?

Obviously the life of the battery many people have has been nowhere near "the life of the product" and this is why Apple has now released information saying well, if you use it like THIS it will last this long but you shouldn't use it like THIS what you should really do, etc.

They should probably mention this in their product literature that still says the battery is good for the life of the iPod. That's what mine says.

Otherwise firms like Girard Gibbs have a good argument for class action.

I love my new iPod by the way.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by pliny:
Didn't the $99 replacement come fee only after after a lot of complaints and threats by people in response to Apple saying if the battery'd died, buy a new iPod because the replacement cost is $250 anyway?

Nope, the replacement program came out before the site did. (One day before the site was even registered)

[raulb]

I agree that battery wear is an accepted part of 'wear and tear'. However, the RATE of degredation is the part that is being questioned. If you purchased tires, and they experienced 75% of their expected lifetime tread wear in 10000 (as in 75% of their useful life in under a year) miles, would you be happy if the tire salesman said "well, if you had DONE RESEARCH you would know that ALL TIRES experience wear, and you should have known that before spending $300 for four tires!" In a little over 7-8 months, my iPOD has MUCH less utilty than before because it goes from full to dead in about 2 hours, unlike when new 5-6 hours was the norm. Even more annoying is that the last gen ipod's batterys don't experience this problem, and YES, my Palm Tungsten T, almost two years old, has little to no PERCEIVABLE battery degradation (and should NOT in only 4 years, that's why BB would cover battery replacment should it be neccessary within that short period of time), and neither does my fiancee's older palm m515, nor my Sony Ericcsion T68i cell phone with MUCH more horrid treatment than my iPod. My cheap no name $30-40 cordless phone has lost a good amount of juice after say 4-5 years, but thats several years and a bottom of the rung product bought cheap, i.e. not ipod type expectations.
Apple, at least acknowledge that the battery you contracted to purchase and assemble into your product has a significantly shorter lifetime than in previous generations, and consider replacing them free as a WARRANTY implies.

[piracy]

Originally posted by pliny:
Didn't the $99 replacement come fee only after after a lot of complaints and threats by people in response to Apple saying if the battery'd died, buy a new iPod because the replacement cost is $250 anyway?

No. Apple already had the battery program out on November 14, and ipodsdirtysecret.com wasn't even registered until November 20. See for yourself.

The program was in the works since mid 2003, long before the Neistat Brothers ever contacted Apple in the first place. As soon as Apple realized this was going to be an issue for customers, it started developing a replacement program. You can disagree with the price, but you can't disagree with the fact that the issue was addressed.

Interestingly, many of the competitive players people have bought because of the iPod battery "problem" (such as the Dell DJ) leave them in an even worse situation: many of these players have lithium ion batteries sealed inside of the enclosure - just like the iPod - and NO manufacturer-provided way of replacing the battery!

(And before anyone comes up with a 3rd party battery for one of the non-Apple players - actually, I don't even think there are any yet - the Neistats' issue was that APPLE didn't provide a way to replace it: several 3rd party iPod batteries already existed at that time. The bottom line? This whole "issue" is bullsh*t, and should die. Now.)

For anyone who doesn't get it yet, read and reread http://ipodbatteryfaq.com very carefully until you understand.

[pliny]

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
Nope, the replacement program came out before the site did. (One day before the site was even registered)

ok.

didn't they start complaining about it before the website went up though?

Originally posted by piracy:
The bottom line? This whole "issue" is bullsh*t, and should die. Now.)

I don't get it. People can disagree on when and why Apple addressed the problem, but why is it bullsh*t that a hard to get to battery degrades or dies?

It's good that Apple has addressed or has begun to address the iPod battery dying/degrading problem some people have had. Anybody know the numbers?? My guess is not too many.

Frankly I like most people probably ,never thought twice about an iPod battery until I read about problems. I wonder how much Apple knew about degradation, my guess is not too much until reports started coming in.

Like I said my user guide (I just got my iPod) says the battery's good for the life of the product. It says so, so I expect it to be.

I wonder what the Apple support says (I haven't bothered to check cause I haven't had nay problems and have been to lazy to look around it yet). That ipodfaq site says stuff like "well if you use the iPod like this or that" or etc, your battery may degrade. That sucks I think. Either the battery works for the life of the product as advertised and presented in product literature, or it doesn't.

I guess alot of people just didn't think of the battery until they ran into problems. Apple could probably avert alot of questions by updating its product literature to reflect some of the finer points of batterying.

Originally posted by raulb:
Apple, at least acknowledge that the battery you contracted to purchase and assemble into your product has a significantly shorter lifetime than in previous generations, and consider replacing them free as a WARRANTY implies

.

I guess the questions are,

What iPods have been affected by this?
Is it going to be a problem across the line, or is it a defect in only some models, or only some batches? It seems like from what I've read that it's across the line depending on usage becasue of limitations in the battery technology.

[raulb]

I pesonally hope that it is just a bad batch of batteries as suggested, although large companies are usially good at keeping track of the serial numbers on failing parts and ID'ing bad batches... easy to say "Sanyo made a bad batch of batteries" and not take the quality assurance hit. But if it was a bad batch, then at least I know that if I can replace the batt for 29 buck, it's worth it to restore my $400 ipod to normal for the duration of ITS life.
Anyone replace their battery yet? I guess I'll have to wait another 8 months to judge, huh?

[piracy]

Originally posted by raulb:
I pesonally hope that it is just a bad batch of batteries as suggested, although large companies are usially good at keeping track of the serial numbers on failing parts and ID'ing bad batches... easy to say "Sanyo made a bad batch of batteries" and not take the quality assurance hit. But if it was a bad batch, then at least I know that if I can replace the batt for 29 buck, it's worth it to restore my $400 ipod to normal for the duration of ITS life.
Anyone replace their battery yet? I guess I'll have to wait another 8 months to judge, huh?

There are two issues here:

- defective batteries, of which there will ALWAYS be some (and "defective", when it comes to a rechargeable battery, is hard to judge or prove, especially after several months)

- the limitations of lithium ion batteries in general

So, no, I don't think these problems are due to a "bad batch" of batteries. They're representative of the extremely small minority of iPod owners - or owners of any devices with lithium ion batteries - that will have problems with batteries. What about people who have iPods DOA out of the box? Does that all of a sudden mean there is some widespread problem with iPods? No. I can't believe a clever video - remember, that's what started it all - has reeled everyone in like this. Now whenever there's any post about a battery everyone flips out. Let's summarize:

- NO, the "problem" is not widespread, and in fact isn't even a "problem"

- If anything, the iPod is statistically BETTER with regard to quality and/or need of repairs than all competitive products

- If the battery needs to be replaced, there are numerous ways to do it

[raulb]

OK,

let's see....as a person with quote "problems" maintaining those oh-so-complicated LiH batteries....I admitted that wear and tear is a normal battery issue, and yes, there will always be defects because it is financially more sound to accept a small amount of defects in manufacturing and replace them under warranty than produce even a 99% defect free rate,... what I DID point out, however, is that I have NEVER HAD a lithium hydrogen, Nickel cadmium, or any other rechargable battery lose 75% of its usefulness (i.e. charge) in under a year from purchase. I have owned MANY electronics with non replaceable batteries.. most recently my electric shaver, with over 6 good years of day to day service, now has a non-replacable battery that only holds 3-5 shaves worth of charge. But I consider 6 years a RESPECTABLE BATTERY LIFE, and purchased another satisfied. In addition, my ibook's battery put in three-four good years of near 90% charge capacity as a primary computer for my non-techy fiancee. 3 years is decent for a laptop battery. so I will buy a replacment without complaint HOWEVER, MR. piracy, my previous palms, cell phones, cordless phones, any of the above, etc. all NEVER made me think once about battery issues within at least the first two years. if you do any math, if you use your ipod alot you probably charge about every 3 days with a 6 hour use between charges (which I don't, I charge about once a week),so... 3d x 400-500 charge cycle expected lifetime = 1200d or 3 years or so. More resonable than 7-8 months, huh? Although what person thinks you will wear those things out in 6-7 months, even if you tried, failing running your ipod 24 hours a day in the brazillian rain forest and rechargeing it 2 or 3 times a night.

Lets summarize:

-the acceptable limitations/tolerance of a brand new (nondefective) LiH battery does not include holding only 1/4 of its initial charge capacity only a little over 6 months from purchase

-We don't care if it is a "widespread problem", or if I am the only one... my ipod has a significantly impaired utility compaired to purchase time only a little over six months after purchase. By Piracy's reasoning, if my brand new mercedes loses 1/2 of its oil from full in a month, (as opposed to the EXPECTED 3 months/3600 miles) after you've only owned the car six months,the salesman can happily say "hey, cars lose oil normally, and all cars normally start leaking oil after a few years, but you must drive your car really harshly and be eating up oil and be wearing out your engines. So we'll have to charge you a small fee, but be happy we'll help out someone who doesn't know how to drive."

[pliny]

Originally posted by raulb:

Lets summarize:

-the acceptable limitations/tolerance of a brand new (nondefective) LiH battery does not include holding only 1/4 of its initial charge capacity only a little over 6 months from purchase

Why don't you send it in to Apple under the warranty, you have one year on it and it covers the battery. You won't have to pay anything.

IPod Support at Apple

[piracy]

Originally posted by raulb:
Lets summarize:

-the acceptable limitations/tolerance of a brand new (nondefective) LiH battery does not include holding only 1/4 of its initial charge capacity only a little over 6 months from purchase

-We don't care if it is a "widespread problem", or if I am the only one... my ipod has a significantly impaired utility compaired to purchase time only a little over six months after purchase.

I didn't say that a new Li ion battery should only hold a quarter of its charge after 6 months. I said there are two separate issues: defective batteries (as yours likely is), and the finite lifetime of Li ion batteries (which will ultimately affect all iPods, albeit at dramatically different rates based on numerous factors).

Apple has used *four* different types of Li ion batteries from different manufacturers on the iPod family so far. *All* have certainly had some type of issue related to the battery at some time or other. There's no reason to believe that Apple picked a poor battery design from a supplier; if we're to believe that, then we have to believe that Apple - known for being ranked consistently and significantly higher than ALL competitors by Consumer Reports in product quality - chose flawed batteries *four times* from *three separate* top Li ion battery makers. Does this sound plausible to you?

Or is the more likely scenario that there will be a small percentage of products that have various issues, and yours is one of them?

Additionally, the fact you have had no problems with other products containing lithium based batteries proves nothing. I have had to replace a lithium ion battery in a Nokia and Samsung phone - twice in the Nokia - and in a PowerBook a little over a year old. But I haven't had any issues with two over-two-year-old iPods, and one of the earliest 3G iPods. What does either story prove? Essentially, nothing, other than you'll find anecdotal evidence for just about any position. Statistically, is there anything to suggest any widespread problems with the iPod? Nope. In fact, quite the opposite: the iPod is, so far, the MOST reliable, and has the LEAST repair issues per units in use than any competitive product. The same goes for Apple products at large, and has for several years.

If, after following all of Apple's troubleshooting steps and tests, your battery is still only holding anywhere less than half its expected charge (8 hours) in a controlled test, it is clearly defective under warranty and AppleCare terms, and Apple should address the problem, period. But this doesn't mean the iPod has a design flaw, has "battery problems", or is otherwise inherently defective. It means YOU have a battery problem. This doesn't imply that you don't know what you're doing, or that you abused it, or anything else. It means you have a problem, which is statistically isolated. Apple should most certainly take care of it promptly and and in a satisfactory fashion, but it doesn't indicate any larger problem with the iPod. That's the point I'm trying, and apparently failing repeatedly, to make.

[Slaveway]

I just replaced the battery in my 3G15gig iPod. After 13 Months of almost Daily use the battery was close to failing completely.
I could only get 2 or 3 hours of play out of the machine.
Do I wish the battery would of lasted longer?? Yes
Am I upset with the Apple and the iPod?? No
Batteries do not last forever.
After reading a number of articles on failing batteries I will take better care by not running the battery completely down before
recharging and a few other things that should help battery life.

[raulb]

Originally posted by piracy:
Or is the more likely scenario that there will be a small percentage of products that have various issues, and yours is one of them?

If, after following all of Apple's troubleshooting steps and tests, your battery is still only holding anywhere less than half its expected charge (8 hours) in a controlled test, it is clearly defecting under warranty and AppleCare terms, and Apple should address the problem, period. But this doesn't mean the iPod has a design flaw, has "battery problems", or is otherwise inherently defective. It means YOU have a battery problem.

This I completely agree with ... it is far more likely it is a matter of the expected error in manufacturing or that the Liithium's suck and as a class die quickly with the type of use they have in ipods after only 8-13 months of use....
maybe i should focus my position because it sounds like we are in more aggreement than it appears on the surface... I am NOT disappointed that the batteries are bad/defective. It's just that that I feel apple shouldn't charge me for a service performed while their product experiences issues while still under 1 year warranty (for only $29, this is more a principle thing than expense ) As a comparision, my Panasonic plasma TV recently died. Ultimate electronics Service guy came, told me it was flaw in a design of the power supply board that affected many of those sets produced that year. Since it was manufacturere error that caused the power supply to die EARLY, they produced 'fix kits' and used one to repair my set for free. AS a result, I trust panasonic to fix (inevitable) errors and paradoxically the result of the manufacturing error is that I am more inclined to purchase from them now... and have..
I guess my biggest beef is that if MY individual battery is bad because thats the WAY they are, then, so be it... BUT it should be policy that within the warranty, IF the battery is bad, the fix should be free... as it is now if the battery's "truely" bad, fork over $29.

slaveway, that blows that the battery died in 13 months on you, but with day to day, 6-7 hours a day usage at least I'd feel better about it and that actually would be more in line with even my own expectations. The only thing is I only use mine a few hours on weekends, or a weekday or two, and I'm actually an anal battery care person (don't leave it 100% charged for days, don't run them until they die, don't leave it on cradle for days.), so don't expect a large amount of film growth/stripping of active materials that is assoicated with capacity degredation after repeated charge cycling. That's why, RELATIVELY SPEAKING, after only 7 months (not even 13) I'm disappointed with it's rate of charge holding degradation, compared to my experiences with other sealed rechargeable devices

Dunno, I've already decided to buy the Applecare even if my battery hadn't chagned, so it's moot point for ME, but for everyone else.....

[kikkoman]

Originally posted by jhhcr:
Obviously ticked off I asked were that was stated in writing, but was told by the Mac genius that I have waranty. it just cost me 29.99.

It is stated in the warranty that is packaged with the iPod.