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Are exclusive lesbians "virgins?"
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BRussell
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Feb 28, 2007, 01:47 AM
 
So I read this about Suze Orman: "I'm still a 55-year-old virgin." She has a romantic and presumably sexual relationship with a woman. So is she a virgin? What about sexually active gay guys who have never been with a woman - virgins? Huh. I need to know this. Now.
     
Gossamer
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Feb 28, 2007, 01:57 AM
 
I would lean towards a more mental meaning for losing one's virginity. Like if a girl is raped, technically she's not a "physical" virgin, but she hasn't yet made the choice to give her body to another person, so she's still a "mental" virgin. Just as aforementioned lesbians have made the choice to give their bodies to another person sexually. Of course this opens a whole can of worms regarding exactly which acts would constitute losing one's virginity, but that's another story for another day.
     
Tomchu
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Feb 28, 2007, 02:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
... but that's another story for another day.
Like tomorrow, when the rest of the MacNN'ers get up and roll into work, only to sit down and bust out the forum. :-)
     
ort888
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Feb 28, 2007, 02:24 AM
 
No, she is not a virgin.

Debate over. That was easy.

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Cadaver
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Feb 28, 2007, 02:32 AM
 
I think being penetrated by something - fingers, vibrators, or a penis - pretty much means you're no longer a virgin.

This, too, goes for all the catholic school girls who take it in the back 9 so they can maintain their "virginity" for marriage.

(sorry to be so blunt)
     
torsoboy
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Feb 28, 2007, 02:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cadaver View Post
I think being penetrated by something - fingers, vibrators, or a penis - pretty much means you're no longer a virgin.

This, too, goes for all the catholic school girls who take it in the back 9 so they can maintain their "virginity" for marriage.

(sorry to be so blunt)

I think the only thing that makes a woman lose her virginity is vaginal sex (either with a man or with a penis type of object worn by another person). I don't think that bum-sex, personal vibrators, or oral sex does it.

For a guy I think vaginal or bum-sex (if you are the man part of the act) would cause the person to no longer be a virgin in my mind.
     
Cadaver
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Feb 28, 2007, 03:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
I think the only thing that makes a woman lose her virginity is vaginal sex (either with a man or with a penis type of object worn by another person). I don't think that bum-sex, personal vibrators, or oral sex does it.
Yes. I was also mainly referring to performance of said act by a female upon a second female who considers herself a lesbian results in the revocation of said virginity.

Two teenagers diddling each other doesn't count.
     
voiceofra
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Feb 28, 2007, 04:20 AM
 
Suze Orman is speaking in the Biblical sense. Remove that ridiculous variable and no, she's not a virgin.
     
OldManMac
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:12 AM
 
At the Oscars, Melissa Etheridge remarked, while holding her Oscar, "This is the only naked man who'll ever be in my bedroom."
     
as2
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:25 AM
 
Biologically speaking, breaking the hymen is considered by some an indication of loosing your virginity, but this could be done by any type of penetration.
[img=http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1300/desktj.jpg]
     
OldManMac
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by as2 View Post
Biologically speaking, breaking the hymen is considered by some an indication of loosing your virginity, but this could be done by any type of penetration.
It's "losing" your virginity. After repeated use, the vagina may become loose.
     
Dakar²
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by KarlG View Post
After repeated use, the vagina may become loose.
I try to keep a few in tight rotation.
     
torsoboy
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by as2 View Post
Biologically speaking, breaking the hymen is considered by some an indication of loosing your virginity, but this could be done by any type of penetration.
I've heard that it can be broken by horseback riding and playing sports, so I don't think that definition works too well.
     
Dakar²
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
I've heard that it can be broken by horseback riding and playing sports, so I don't think that definition works too well.
Losing your virginity to a horse? [Insert bestiality joke here]
     
Millennium
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Feb 28, 2007, 12:59 PM
 
If you really want to be all technical and biological and all that crap, then it would depend on the sorts of things she's done. If you don't want to split hairs like that, then no.
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TubaMuffins
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Feb 28, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by as2 View Post
Biologically speaking, breaking the hymen is considered by some an indication of loosing your virginity, but this could be done by any type of penetration.
that's what i was going to say, but a hymen break from riding a bike or almost anything that's physical. so technically a girl can lose her virginity and never have had sex of any kind. So I vote that's it's personal beliefs that determine virginity. Look at born again virgins, they call themselves virgins but in every sense of the word, they may certainly not be.
     
analogika
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Feb 28, 2007, 03:09 PM
 
Are people who spend their time thinking about this "virgins"?

Most likely.
     
Gossamer
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
I think the only thing that makes a woman lose her virginity is vaginal sex (either with a man or with a penis type of object worn by another person). I don't think that bum-sex, personal vibrators, or oral sex does it.

For a guy I think vaginal or bum-sex (if you are the man part of the act) would cause the person to no longer be a virgin in my mind.
Does it have to go all the way to orgasm or would just a single insertion do it?

Originally Posted by TubaMuffins View Post
that's what i was going to say, but a hymen break from riding a bike or almost anything that's physical. so technically a girl can lose her virginity and never have had sex of any kind. So I vote that's it's personal beliefs that determine virginity. Look at born again virgins, they call themselves virgins but in every sense of the word, they may certainly not be.
Good point.
     
JoshuaZ
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:26 PM
 
I never understood the whole `bum sex` to save virginity thing. I knew a couple of girls in college who did that. They didn`t see anything wrong with taking up the back 9, but thought that any vaginal sex was a horrible sin.

Mallrats on the subject of `uncomfortable places.`
`Like the back of a volkswagon?`
     
Dakar²
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Mar 1, 2007, 12:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
I never understood the whole `bum sex` to save virginity thing. I knew a couple of girls in college who did that. They didn`t see anything wrong with taking up the back 9, but thought that any vaginal sex was a horrible sin.

Mallrats on the subject of `uncomfortable places.`
`Like the back of a volkswagon?`
I've always gotten a kick out of it. Obviously they're religious sex education (and I suspect sex education overall) is so weak they don't realize that's way worse than just doin' the nasty.
     
OB1
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Mar 1, 2007, 07:10 AM
 
Just another point of view - Whether you're having sex or not, it shouldn't be of any relevance to anyone but yourself and the people you choose to be with. So there's no reason to label anyone "lesbian", "virgin".
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Millennium
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Mar 1, 2007, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by as2 View Post
Biologically speaking, breaking the hymen is considered by some an indication of loosing your virginity, but this could be done by any type of penetration.
Not just that, either; lots of women break it in other ways that have nothing to do with sex. It's actually relatively common among women who do horseback riding, martial arts (particularly ones that emphasize kicks), and gymnastics.

The point here is that it's a rather poor indicator of virginity unless the local culture prohibits women from doing much in the way of strenuous activity.
You are in Soviet Russia. It is dark. Grue is likely to be eaten by YOU!
     
Big Mac
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Mar 1, 2007, 08:57 AM
 
I was surprised to learn Suze is a lesbian. Interesting.

Originally Posted by voiceofra View Post
Suze Orman is speaking in the Biblical sense. Remove that ridiculous variable and no, she's not a virgin.
 
Well, if you read the page you linked to, it mentions that the Sodomite males also "knew" each other, as in when they wanted to "know" the angels. If you go by that biblical usage, it would seem that at least male homosexual sex constitutes a loss of virginity. I don't think there is a reference to female homosexual sex to be found anywhere in the Hebrew Scriptures. Rabbinical convention classifies it as an immodest act. But if one were to assume it to be analogous to the male homosexual example, it would make sense to say lesbians are not virgins from that point of view.

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CleoW
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Mar 1, 2007, 06:19 PM
 
The definitions of "virginity" vary in culture and context. I'm sure an exclusive lesbian who has or had partners doesn't consider herself a "virgin", so no one else should.
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voodoo
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Mar 1, 2007, 06:50 PM
 
:sigh:

You answer yourself with your own question BRussell.

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torsoboy
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
Does it have to go all the way to orgasm or would just a single insertion do it?
A single insertion would cause the losing of virginity in my mind. Some women don't have an orgasm until they've had sex many times... they are not considered virgins.
     
KeriVit
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:16 PM
 
no.
     
Gossamer
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by torsoboy View Post
A single insertion would cause the losing of virginity in my mind. Some women don't have an orgasm until they've had sex many times... they are not considered virgins.
What about the guy? He can have an orgasm after inserting for the first time.
     
torsoboy
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Mar 2, 2007, 05:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
What about the guy? He can have an orgasm after inserting for the first time.
Yeah, that's for sure. So no, he wouldn't be a virgin any longer either. One poke and your de-virginified regardless of whether your are the poker or the pokee.
     
KrazyKoot
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Mar 2, 2007, 07:23 AM
 
Technically :
Virgin = A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
Sexual Intercourse = Coitus (Sexual union between a male and a female involving insertion of the penis into the vagina) between humans / Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis. If you break your hymen on a post you can still be a virgin

Morally :
Virginity = The condition of being chaste.
Chaste = Morally pure in thought or conduct; decent and modest.
You think sex and you have lost your virginity.

Musically
Virgin is a Polish rock band that was created in 2000. Its lead singer is Dorota Rabczewska who is notable for her controversial appearance. posed nude for Playboy Magazine in Poland. She also stepped out in three naked sessions to the CKM mag. I cannot fond references to her sexual preference, but any lesbian cannot be a Virgin.

Geographically :
British Virgins refer to islands in Bristish terrotories in the West Indies. A lesbian in these regions is a British Virgin.

Quote from The Virgin - The fiftieth episode of the hit sitcom Seinfeld
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Millennium
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Mar 2, 2007, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by CleoW View Post
The definitions of "virginity" vary in culture and context. I'm sure an exclusive lesbian who has or had partners doesn't consider herself a "virgin", so no one else should.
This thread came up in the context of Suze Orman, a personal-finance adviser who recently came out as gay. She says that she has never had sex with a man and is therefore a virgin, despite having had sex with at least one woman.

It's absurd hair-splitting, likely contrived to try and give her some kind of air of 'purity.'
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Cadaver
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Mar 4, 2007, 01:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
This thread came up in the context of Suze Orman, a personal-finance adviser who recently came out as gay. She says that she has never had sex with a man and is therefore a virgin, despite having had sex with at least one woman.

It's absurd hair-splitting, likely contrived to try and give her some kind of air of 'purity.'
Maybe she's a "man-hater."
     
PB2K
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Mar 4, 2007, 12:38 PM
 
virginity is between your ears, so she can be whatever she wants to be if it makes her feel any better
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