[Jawbone54]

I'm itching for a nice camera, and my friends are pushing me towards a Digital Rebel XTi.

I've been using my church's Nikon D70 for several months when taking pictures for conferences and such, but I've used my friend's Rebel for covering the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Rita, and I loved it. Is there any reason that I shouldn't go down this path?

I just want to start dipping my feet into the photography pool, so to speak, and I know that I can't do it with a 5 MP piece of junk that I'm currently using. It's time to graduate, and I know you guys will have some good opinions on it.

[RAILhead]

I'm a Panasonic guy, myself. HIgh-end Pannys frakin rule.

[Mastrap]

Argh - I am finding myself in the same position. I always liked the Rebel just fine, but then I picked up a Nikon D80 and all of sudden it looks and feels cheap, to me at least. The difference is about $100/200 but it's worth it, I think.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

I'm a Panasonic guy, myself. HIgh-end Pannys frakin rule.

How is noise at high ISO at that level?

I am only asking because the cheap Panasonics suffer from bad noise.

[Dakarʒ]

A rebel is a person who resists authority. It would show poor judgment to buy a product named rebel, and would imply that you endorse such person, which is setting a bad example for our children. No wonder our country is in shambles and we're losing the war in iraq.

[dav]

i went with Pentax, but Nikon and Canon are excellent choices.

[OreoCookie]

I'd easily want to talk you out of a Rebel and into a Nikon … but that's just me
Just got a D70 and I love it (couldn't afford a D80 …).

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I'd easily want to talk you out of a Rebel and into a Nikon … but that's just me
Just got a D70 and I love it (couldn't afford a D80 …).

That's the way I was leaning for a while. After shooting the same event with both the D70 and XTi, I put the images side by side in Aperture, and noticed a significant difference in quality (with the XTi coming on top). It could've been something I was doing wrong with the settings, but the XTi certainly felt better, both in feel and performance.

I just get really nervous about making a mistake whenever I'm buying anything over $300. I really want to do my homework before making the purchase. You should have seen me when I closed on my house; my wife thought I was having a nervous breakdown.

[OreoCookie]

Not trying to start another Canon vs. Nikon flamefest, but shouldn't you compare the XTi to the D80? FWIW, the humonguous viewfinder of the D80 is certainly the one single feature I really miss (compared to the D70 …). I think that's much more significant to me at least … 

In any case, you should compare the cameras you actually want to buy (I guess that's either the D80 or the Rebel XTi …). I also wouldn't go too far into theoretical image quality discussions (I prefer Canon's/Nikon's noise at ISO 3200 … ) and instead focus on usability. These days, all dslrs offer great image quality if you use quality lenses and you `catch the moment'. So don't worry about these details too much, if you prefer the way Canon's feel, go for them and vice versa for Nikon. I don't like Canon's UI and based just on this, I would really hesitate to buy one just for that reason (even if the image quality is `10 % better').

[mac128k-1984]

Another vote for Nikon, I've been very pleased with the quality of the pictures coming from my D70. I also sprang for an expensive lense - the 28 - 70mm f2.8 It cost more then the camera but it really makes a difference.

When I was comparing Nikon and Canon, I liked how the Nikon camera felt in my hand, the organization of the menu and controls and the camera just felt sturdier. No knock on the Canon, that's a fine camera in its own right and you'll be happy with either

[OreoCookie]

I can only second that: instead of getting a larger camera, with a crappy lens, invest in a decent lens. It's a much more useful investment than having a 10 MP camera with a crappy 18-55 plastic lens.

Even Nikon's 18-70 feels cheap as I've been spoiled by metal lenses for the last four, five years.

[stevesnj]

yeah I have a Rebel XT with the standard 18-55 lens..its garbage. Investing in a better lens is the best idea. The camera itseld is great...look at the XTi its 10.2 MP and priced very close to the XT

[Railroader]

I have the Rebel XTi and I love it.

The only real issues I see with going Nikon is the premium lens availability. Nikon just can't seem to make their better lenes in quantity and I have found that firends shooting with a Nikon are always complaining about that. Also, a guy at Norman Camera told me they sometimes have issues with Nikon's support. Whereas Canon can supply lenses and is very quick with customer support.

But really, at this level of performance you are at quite a level playing field. And as Railhead mentioned, it doesn't hurt to check out some of the other guys such as Pentax or Panasonic. But if you buy a Sony, then I will taunt you with cat pictures.

Jawbone: PM me and I will send you a link to my personal photo site where you can see some of the images I have been able to capture with my Rebel. I think it is a great camera for the money.

[fhoubi]

I bought the original Rebel (300D) the day it was available in Europe some 3 years ago. Mine was a POS. Inconsistent metering, 1 of 20..30 was way off, using flash even 1 of 3 was garbage. Bought myself a Nikon D50 later and never looked back. Sweet ergonomics, no "castrating" of functionality, and good metering. I understand that all newer Rebels improved in quite some areas, but for me I will give Canon the finger for the rest of my lifetime.

[- - e r i k - -]

Consider the Olympus E-300, it's a great camera equivalent to the Digital Rebel with some extra features. And you can now get it for dirt cheap.

In general it's good to compare the models that it the current generation superseded as they are generally much better value for money.

[Jawbone54]

After reading every review of nearly every comparable camera out there, I went ahead and bought the XTi.

About 8 hours into it, I'm loving the camera. The missus and I headed over to my parents' house for a family meal along with my sister and her family. I snapped about 40 pictures while there, and they came out great. The family was really impressed with the quality as well.

I'll compile a collection over the next few weeks and post a link to it on here for criticism (I have no idea why any sane person would do this, but I'll almost certainly need the help).

Thanks for the opinions shared in here. I invite anything else you guys can tell me about using the camera and such.

[SirCastor]

Please keep us posted, my Wife is a photographer and I've been eying this Camera myself. I don't know a whole lot about cameras and this is my wife's first foray out of digital point-and-click (she's done lots of stuff with her 35mm SLR)

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

Please keep us posted, my Wife is a photographer and I've been eying this Camera myself. I don't know a whole lot about cameras and this is my wife's first foray out of digital point-and-click (she's done lots of stuff with her 35mm SLR)

Sure thing...will do.

[ink]

Originally Posted by stevesnj 

yeah I have a Rebel XT with the standard 18-55 lens..its garbage.

KIT LENS Challenge #5
KIT LENS Challenge #6

I wouldn't call it "garbage". There are better lenses, but a good photographer can do amazing things with the 18-55mm that comes with it.

I really like my XTi; I just wish it had a 35mm sensor, even if it had a lower resolution. Maybe the next one... (but then I'd have to get all-new lenses)

[Sub]

I find a great amount of use of the stock lense that came with my Nikon D50, I hardy use my telephoto, I do use my macro more than both put together. Did anyone catch that commercial where Nikon hands out like 200 D40s in some town in georgia? And they show that many people can take excellent shots with a cheaper SLR and the stock lense. You can also check out their photos on the Nikon website. I thought it was pretty cool.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ink 

I wouldn't call it "garbage". There are better lenses, but a good photographer can do amazing things with the 18-55mm that comes with it.

They are certainly usable and beat the hell out of pretty much any point-n-click camera. But you will only be able to use the potential of your dslr if you use good optics.

<PS>I just got my D80 today </PS>

[design219]

I've been shooting Nikon for over 28 years and am loyal. That said, If I were starting today from scratch, I would want to put my hands on the different options to see how they feel. I would also look at the lenses and think hard about where future investments in equipment will figure into your budget. I think your are very safe sticking with Canon or Nikon, as they both have many years of experience and feedback from the pro market.

Digital Camera Reviews and News

This is a fairly good site to look at features of various models.

Let us know what you get.

[PB2K]

thank God for this photocamera thread :

I have only a few demands, snappy and long batterylife.

Last year, with a 1 month time period, I bought a Canon 350d with tamron 18-200. It bugged me that the shutter made so much noise, so I sold it and bought a new Sony R1. The Sony R1 is their flagship but can't make movies, and very bulky so not very perfect for holidays. I sold the Sony and bought a Panasonic FZ30, at that moment the best panasonic. The FZ30 is a beautyful camera for novices like me: quick, incredible zoom, with image stabilisation, handy presets, great batterylife (up to a week) and easy to operate. and whats really handy is the live-histogram ! you can't have that with a dslr.the 350d only shows a histogram after you took the pic.

Now a year later I have sold the near perfect FZ30 for a reasonable price. I intend to go to West Africa this week and a large camera has bugged me the last year because you are such an obvious exploitable tourist. Compactability is now a keyword in my wishlist, therefore i bought the equivalent of a swiss army knife ; the Olympus 770SW. It's guaranteed waterproof up to 10 metres(!) and extrelemely tough. It has image stabilisation (a must nowadays) and many presets. and it has a small led that can illuminates continuously

[greenamp]

Whichever you get, pass on the kit lens combo and just buy the body + F1.8 fixed lens. Then, when you can afford it, get a wide angle lens. Cheap zoom lenses are garbage.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

... It has image stabilisation (a must nowadays)...

Why do you think it is a "must"? I disagree. I have seen pictures with IS and without IS and I think the ones without IS are sharper. IS is a crutch in my opinion.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

Compactability is now a keyword in my wishlist,

That's not a word

[anonymac]

There's no doubt that Nikon owns the photography business. Look at what news and sports photographers use for their work: Nikon cameras and lenses. Why would you buy anything else?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by anonymac 

There's no doubt that Nikon owns the photography business. Look at what news and sports photographers use for their work: Nikon cameras and lenses. Why would you buy anything else?

ORLY?

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by anonymac 

There's no doubt that Nikon owns the photography business. Look at what news and sports photographers use for their work: Nikon cameras and lenses. Why would you buy anything else?

Take another look, there's a large contigant of professional photographers using Canon. While I'm a Nikon fan, that doesn't blind me to the fact that Canon has a large market share and makes very good cameras/lenses.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

ORLY?

Nikon also makes gray lenses. Although I absolutely concur that neither Nikon nor Canon own the business (which is good for us!).

[dlefebvre]

I could not be happier with my Nikon D80. I hesitated between the D80 and the XTi. I ended up choosing the D80 for a few reasons.
1-The viewfinder is bigger than on the XTi.
2-The controls and buttons are placed better than on the XTi. You can change a lot of parameters without ever taking your eye out of the viewfinder.
3-The body of the D80 seems more solid and sturdy than the XTi.

I will also possibly buy a good point and shoot. A DSLR is great but it's big to take with you everywhere and every time.

[butterfly0fdoom]

Originally Posted by anonymac 

There's no doubt that Nikon owns the photography business. Look at what news and sports photographers use for their work: Nikon cameras and lenses. Why would you buy anything else?

I've actually seen a good mix of Canons and Nikons.

Originally Posted by dlefebvre 

I will also possibly buy a good point and shoot. A DSLR is great but it's big to take with you everywhere and every time.

Just don't get a Nikon; too bad their point and shoots aren't as good as their SLRs are. Canon's point and shoots are great.

[OreoCookie]

I don't think this controversy can be settled without pictures!
Take this Canon people and show me what you did this weekend with your equipment (other than bragging about it on MacNN)!






(All of them were taken with my favorite toy, my new D80 )

[Troll]

I don't know why people try to compare the 400D and the D80. They aren't in the same category really.

Amazon prices:
Nikon D40X - $711
Canon 400D - $730
Nikon D80 - $1104
Canon 30D - $1189

If you look at price and features, the D80 should be compared with the Canon 30D not the 400D which competes with the D40X. My own feeling is that the 400D has more features and slightly better image quality but is more difficult to use than the D40X. I'd recommend the Canon 400D (or the Pentax for that matter) to someone who wants to get into photography more seriously and the Nikon D40X to someone who isn't planning on ever going beyond the camera's presets.

If you have the cash for a D80, then you should definitely consider the 30D but I think the choice between these two cameras is more difficult and ultimately comes down to preference. As for posting weekend photos, I didn't take any this weekend, but here's one from last weekend, taken with my Canon 350D and the Canon EF-S 17-85mm IS (image stabilised lens).

[ink]

One I took a couple weeks ago:

[kman42]

I am happy to see this thread as I am looking for a new camera. My wife and I are expecting our first child in a few months and I want the right equipment to capture all those childhood moments. I have been suing Canon compact point-and-shoots for years (Elphs) and have been pretty happy with them, but they are terrible for indoor shots and anything that happens quickly. Both of these categories seem like musts for snappy kids. I have started looking at the Rebel XT and XTi, but recently saw that Canon is coming out with a new camera, the S5 IS. I haven't broadened my search parameter space to include non-Canon cameras as I have just started looking and thought I would begin with what I've always used. I doubt I can talk my wife into a fancy replacement lens as she is already questioning the need for a new camera (she just doesn't have a good idea of what a better camera can do yet). I do enjoy taking photos and we do a lot of traveling. Any suggestions?

kman

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I don't think this controversy can be settled without pictures!
Take this Canon people and show me what you did this weekend with your equipment (other than bragging about it on MacNN)!

(All of them were taken with my favorite toy, my new D80 )

Sorry, all my pictures were of family this weekend as we celebrated my dad's 60th birthday and Mother's Day.

I did take this one of the cake (per my mother's request.)

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by kman42 

I am happy to see this thread as I am looking for a new camera. My wife and I are expecting our first child in a few months and I want the right equipment to capture all those childhood moments. I have been suing Canon compact point-and-shoots for years (Elphs) and have been pretty happy with them, but they are terrible for indoor shots and anything that happens quickly. Both of these categories seem like musts for snappy kids. I have started looking at the Rebel XT and XTi, but recently saw that Canon is coming out with a new camera, the S5 IS. I haven't broadened my search parameter space to include non-Canon cameras as I have just started looking and thought I would begin with what I've always used. I doubt I can talk my wife into a fancy replacement lens as she is already questioning the need for a new camera (she just doesn't have a good idea of what a better camera can do yet). I do enjoy taking photos and we do a lot of traveling. Any suggestions?

kman

I have the S2 IS which the S5 IS is based off of (well, actually it's based off the S1 IS). And although it's a good camera, it is very limiting. I bought it instead of a DSLR at the time thinking they were comparable, and after getting my XTi I can see they are worlds apart.

My advice: Get a DSLR. You'll never regret it. And on the teeny chance you do, you can sell it easily for about the same that you paid for it.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by kman42 

Any suggestions?

There is a dramatic difference in quality between an SLR and a compact or bridge camera. I moved up to the 350D from a Canon Ixus 7 megapixel compact and there is just no comparing the quality of the photos from that camera and the 8 megapixel 350D (even though the resolution of the cameras is almost identical). That said, it does take a while to learn how to use an SLR effectively.

If you're taking baby photos, the ability to control depth of field (how much of the subject is in focus) will be useful and you can only really do that properly with an SLR. There is a cheap ($80) 50mm lens for Canon SLRs that is brilliant for portrait photos. Here's one with that lens which I recommend to anyone who has a Canon SLR.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Troll 

There is a cheap ($80) 50mm lens for Canon SLRs that is brilliant for portrait photos. Here's one with that lens which I recommend to anyone who has a Canon SLR.

Great recommendation!

Originally Posted by Troll 

[img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/198/480526567_bd7e086e40.jpg[img]

Good example!

[Railroader]

Here is a good photoblog from a guy who uses a Canon Rebel XT.

[Troll]

And another one. Guy in South Africa using a Canon 350D. Most are taken with a relatively cheap Tamron lens too. All of which illustrates that having an SLR is just one part of the equation!

g o s u - Images from Africa

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Here is a good photoblog from a guy who uses a Canon Rebel XT.

He has some really cool stuff. Bookmarked.

[Jawbone54]

Keep in mind that was from my first 2 days with my XTi. I'm ignorant and know nothing (besides the rule of thirds), so don't be brutal.

[Troll]

Not bad at all especially considering you just got the camera. You have a good eye. I'm not hugely clued up on photography either but if I had to be critical, I'd say:

1) Photo 1 - great moment. The girl looks a little soft and that could be a result of a slow shutter speed or wrong focus point. I'd crop this one from the right to the height of the hat and so that the path is up on the right side of the frame. That would bring the girl out more as a the subject.

3) Photo 3 - Great lead in lines with the tree on either side. Pity you cut off her legs because it seems like a cute pose and you don't need the space above her head.

6) Photo 6 - Good eye contact and nice framing. I would have pointed the camera a little more to the left to get all of the bench in and to have the girl on one of the thirds. You have blown out highlights on the right of this shot which you can control using the Exposure compensation button on the camera. It's a good idea to check the histogram after you've taken a shot. You might be able to rescue them if you took the photo in Raw format. To do this, you'd make one version of the photo with the exposure turned down and blend that with the one with the proper background exposure. It's easier to do this on camera the first time round though with the exposure compensation setting or by framing differently.

[OreoCookie]

I hope you'll enjoy your camera. Just one thing: don't waste your time with `picture programs', learn to take control

I like the first one. I probably would have taken a close-up of the second one: the mood seems very intimate and the vast space of stuff around her is kinda getting into the way. You seem to have a good eye for the moment and a good relationship to your subjects … 

For now, I would advise you not to bother shooting RAW or anything, focus on taking pictures first. Try to find out how to compose image to your taste (and that's what it is, really) and have fun. Working with RAW images takes a lot more time and requires lots of attention (and space, i. e. you would have to buy new memory cards, too, ka-ching). Try to have a look at other people's works and find out what you like. Imitate them and then try a synthesis of your own ideas with theirs. Some people on this forum are very good photographers, although one notable exception (SimeyTheLimey) hasn't posted in a very long time. Pity.

@Troll and RR
Thanks for the links those guys have taken great pictures. Makes me want to get a wide-angle zoom

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

@Troll and RR
Thanks for the links those guys have taken great pictures. Makes me want to get a wide-angle zoom

I want one too.

Here's another guy with a bunch of great wide-angle shots, from a friend of my cousin. They like to backpack and there's some very nice landscape photos. Another XTi user as well.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I want one too.

Here's another guy with a bunch of great wide-angle shots, from a friend of my cousin. They like to backpack and there's some very nice landscape photos. Another XTi user as well.

Yeah, I heard the 10-22 Canon zoom is a really nice lens. Although I'd still go for the Tokina 12-24, coz it's cheaper and I have yet to be disappointed by Tokina's built quality.

[Troll]

I'm also looking at both of those lenses. I'm tending towards the 10-22 for the extra 2mm on the wide side and the fact that it seems to distort less. I don't think the price is justified though so unless I can find a cheap one on eBay, I'll probably go for the Tokina. The problem with wide zooms like that though is that you really have to focus on foreground interest or your shots can become very bland. Finding stuff in the foreground that's worthwhile photographing ain't so easy not.

[fhoubi]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Keep in mind that was from my first 2 days with my XTi. I'm ignorant and know nothing (besides the rule of thirds), so don't be brutal.

Build & learn 4 free...