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Do they make games like they used to?
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starman
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Apr 7, 2008, 11:10 AM
 
My oldest just decided to randomly start playing Zelda:OoT again. This is maybe the 4th or 5th time I've been through this game (this time as a helper). Every time I play the game I'm still amazed at how great the game is. I don't replay FF games so much because they take SO long to finish, but I've been thinking about replaying VII and X lately.

And then it dawned on me that the game came out at a time when there seemed to be a ton of badass games. This is around 1997.

(in no particular order):

Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Crash Bandicoot 2 (analog control really shined here)
Final Fantasy VII
Tomb Raider
Super Mario 64
Goldeneye
Rogue Squadron
Turok 2
Soul Calibur
...and on and on

Today, what is there? You get some pretty good titles, but nothing BADASS. No watershed titles. Sequels are weak (although FF VII: CC, FF XII, and SMG has been getting really good reviews). The only ones out there now that are even worth mentioning are GTA, CoD, and Halo. That's only three really badass titles in this generation.

I think about the times I'd spend glued to the TV playing games, either alone or as a family and the games don't seem to bring that out anymore. I got bored with Crash Bandicoot, there are no more Rogue Squadron games, Super Mario Galaxy was fun, but not great, I have to check out Turok, Zelda: TP was just OK, and Soul Calibur IV isn't out yet. I have to say, I really liked the latest Tomb Raider. I didn't finish it (I really need to do that) but I was very impressed with it.

Or maybe my tastes in games have changed? Yeah, I play WoW (duh), but I'll pick up games still. They just don't DO it for me anymore. Lost Odyssey is about as close to a fun game as I've played in a while (but at its heart, it's a FF clone). Portal was a boatload of fun. That's about as much F-U-N I had playing a game in a while.

EDIT: I have to mention GTA: VC and Dreamfall. Two completely different kinds of games. VC was an excellent game but that was years ago. Time will tell how the new game does. Dreamfall was a really good story, something very lacking in games today.

The only game I can say was truly revolutionary this generation is Guitar Hero/Rock Band. It gave people a different way of controlling the game, moreso IMO than the Wii conroller can.

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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 7, 2008, 11:21 AM
 
I always find it interesting that as much as I bash the N64 for its ridiculous controller, cartridge limitations, etc., arguably 3 of the best games ever came from that console.

As far as the question you posed, the answer is simply no. But then again, there's a conspicuous absence of 16-bit games form your list, and I'm not sure I agree with that.

The last game that really made me say "Wow" was probably GTA, III and San Andreas respectively.
     
starman  (op)
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Apr 7, 2008, 11:27 AM
 
I had a gaming "gap", that's why there are no 16-bit games there. My gaming history was:

Coleco Telstar Arcade in 1976
Atari 2600 in 1978
Atari 800 from '84 to '86
College (which started in '85). Gaming was PC/Atari ST, and very little at that. I couldn't afford both a computer and a gaming console. Gaming wasn't on my mind then anyway. /wink
I got back into gaming when the PS1 came out (specifically for Tekken and Final Fantasy VII) and even though I owned a Sega GameGear, I really didn't like it.

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sek929
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Apr 7, 2008, 12:12 PM
 
The only games I've ever played more than a few times are all SNES and N64. The exception being the original Halo, I beat the campaign dozens of times.

Not only were the games longer, they were also a lot harder too. My de-facto example is that newer games usually have you sit through a movie-esque introduction with more production value than most TV shows. On the other hand, the original Metroid for NES has you hit start, and then you're lowered into the ****ing game with absolutely no explanation at all. It doesn't even tell you what the powerups are when you get them, it plays a little tune and you're like "What in the name of sh!t did I just pick up???"

Newer games baby you through the story. The graphics, sounds, etc are all supposed to take the place of level design. Obviously I love 360 games, but I've beaten Link to the Past and Super Metroid to many time to count, and you know what, I still get stuck like crazy in those games (especially Zelda LTTP).

So my answer, no way do they make games like they used to. Flashy lighting and 5.1 surround sound have taken over the more important aspects of the game.

Also, awesome to hear you playing OoT again. I love that game, might have to dust it off again real soon.
     
starman  (op)
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Apr 7, 2008, 12:30 PM
 
Get the Master Quest version. You can find it used at pretty much any Gamestop, so if you can't find it in-store, you should be able to get it online from gamestop. com. I started it and never finished it (got distracted). It's definitely a different game than the original.

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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 7, 2008, 12:33 PM
 
Yeah, I remember trying that. I got annoyed because it's very disorienting.

I also hate the Deku Tree dungeon.
     
Mac User #001
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Apr 7, 2008, 01:01 PM
 
I'm little younger, so I was never around with some of those older games and consoles. I grew up on a 64, mostly playing GoldenEye, SM64, and Pokemon Stadium. Oh, and Crash Bandicoot. I stopped for a while, and didn't pick up gaming again until I picked up StarCraft. Then I moved on to C&C, and then all the rest of the series. My first FPS was probably Renegade, unless you count Battlezone. After that, I become a total and complete gamer. I've got a nice balance in taste between FPS and RTS, and though I like the eye candy in newer games a lot, I still play Tiberiun Sun and StarCraft quite frequently.

So to answer the question... I think so. They still do. It's just you've grown bored of it all in general. They were the first, therefore you think they're the best. I mean, sure, certain game stories have been done a million times over, but they're probably clueless as to what else to do. It's not a bad thing that they now explain what this power-up does and how you jump. I hear Assassin's Creed was criticized for repetitive gameplay and level design. Come on now, weren't all of the really old games like that? They were still fun as heck. Just my opinion.
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sek929
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Apr 7, 2008, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
So to answer the question... I think so. They still do. It's just you've grown bored of it all in general. They were the first, therefore you think they're the best.
Very true, old-man syndrome I guess Exceptions to the rule exist, like Halo, which sold the xbox and 360 for me. I urge you to play some old SNES and NES classics, namely Super Metroid. Quite possibly the finest console game ever made IMO. Solid graphics, great music (for its' day), and a sprawling world with twists, turns, and secrets to beat the band. Not to mention the best Final Boss ever created.

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
I mean, sure, certain game stories have been done a million times over, but they're probably clueless as to what else to do. It's not a bad thing that they now explain what this power-up does and how you jump.
I have no qualms with the game telling you what does what, etc. I do have a problem with way-points and scripted blockage leading you everywhere and not letting you backtrack. Zelda plunked you down in a complete world. Whatever way you wanted to go about it was up to you, you decided. Of course areas were off-limits until you had certain items. Major example is most of the Temples in LttP and OoT. You could enter most of them and look around...maybe you could figure out what you needed by sleuthing....maybe you can do some Temples out of order (in both games you can, though some can be very difficult)...maybe you want to grab chickens and cut down bushes for 12hrs, it was up to you.

Even in Bioshock (which was touted as a lot of things it wasn't) led you around the entire game, I never got lost, never got confused and had to backtrack, it was just one scripted maneuver after another. Loved the game but it was touted as being a fully interactive world where your decisions changed the game. Besides choosing life or death to the little sisters there was ZERO choice involved.

Maybe kids nowadays (old man synd. again) don't have the attention span to get lost and frustrated at games. They want instant gratification with little effort. I think more kids need to play sh!t like Myst and Riven and sit there for hours dumbfounded at what to do.

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
I hear Assassin's Creed was criticized for repetitive gameplay and level design. Come on now, weren't all of the really old games like that? They were still fun as heck. Just my opinion.
I played AC for a little while and liked the free-roam building climbing. I'll agree that most old games invented a system and stuck with it for the most part (Super Metroid changes the gameplay throughout though, you really should play it).

Portal is the only recent game that really wowed me in every aspect of video gaming. The story, the atmosphere, the mechanics, the level design, graphics, sounds, etc...The fact that you can deem certain actions as impossible until then become second-nature.

If Portal 2 ever comes out I will buy it in a heartbeat.
     
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Apr 7, 2008, 05:17 PM
 
Commander Keen (especially #5)
Robin Hood: Conquests of the Longbow
Doom (the music made the game, for sure)
Quake 1
Solar Winds

... and many more that I can't remember off the top of my head. I miss gaming on my 386.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 7, 2008, 05:18 PM
 
DOOM.

Man, DOOM was like a breath of fresh air.
     
sek929
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Apr 7, 2008, 07:59 PM
 
Quake 1 had some excellent atmosphere.

Of course DOOM is a favorite as well...who didn't play that game that game till their eyes bled?
     
starman  (op)
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Apr 7, 2008, 08:48 PM
 
I didn't. I didn't like it. I saw it and thought it was silly. Marathon spoiled me.

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Aegis
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Apr 7, 2008, 09:20 PM
 
I was just thinking about this topic the other day.

I think there's less passion. There's less imagination to be used. There's less restrictions for the programmers, which once forced them to think differently and come up with inventive ideas. Less faith in our intelligence. And of course, games are big business these days. Most companies want to extract the most money with the least effort.
     
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Apr 7, 2008, 09:41 PM
 
Elite?
     
Mac User #001
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Apr 8, 2008, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Very true, old-man syndrome I guess Exceptions to the rule exist, like Halo, which sold the xbox and 360 for me. I urge you to play some old SNES and NES classics, namely Super Metroid. Quite possibly the finest console game ever made IMO. Solid graphics, great music (for its' day), and a sprawling world with twists, turns, and secrets to beat the band. Not to mention the best Final Boss ever created.
I do have either an NES or an SNES, or rather, my older brother does, but I can easily get it from him I'm sure. And Super Metroid can't be more than $5 or $10. Maybe.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I have no qualms with the game telling you what does what, etc. I do have a problem with way-points and scripted blockage leading you everywhere and not letting you backtrack. Zelda plunked you down in a complete world. Whatever way you wanted to go about it was up to you, you decided. Of course areas were off-limits until you had certain items. Major example is most of the Temples in LttP and OoT. You could enter most of them and look around...maybe you could figure out what you needed by sleuthing....maybe you can do some Temples out of order (in both games you can, though some can be very difficult)...maybe you want to grab chickens and cut down bushes for 12hrs, it was up to you.
My guess is you'd be a Crysis man. Whatever way you want to go is up to you. Grabbing chickens is still an option, but you'll need to replacing chopping down bushes with shooting down trees, which I've done for maybe not 12 hours, but a good amount of time.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Even in Bioshock (which was touted as a lot of things it wasn't) led you around the entire game, I never got lost, never got confused and had to backtrack, it was just one scripted maneuver after another. Loved the game but it was touted as being a fully interactive world where your decisions changed the game. Besides choosing life or death to the little sisters there was ZERO choice involved.
Do you still suggest I get it?

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Maybe kids nowadays (old man synd. again) don't have the attention span to get lost and frustrated at games. They want instant gratification with little effort. I think more kids need to play sh!t like Myst and Riven and sit there for hours dumbfounded at what to do.
Hehe. Myst consumed days on end with me, but I never finished it. Started up again not too long ago, but found it wasn't that pretty on a big screen. I'm actually really looking forward to the DS version so I can continue playing it. I'll probably be staying up in bed long in to the night with it.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Portal is the only recent game that really wowed me in every aspect of video gaming. The story, the atmosphere, the mechanics, the level design, graphics, sounds, etc...The fact that you can deem certain actions as impossible until then become second-nature.

If Portal 2 ever comes out I will buy it in a heartbeat.
Haven't gotten a chance to play it yet.. Though I got a free download option through a graphics card update, I just haven't gotten around to downloading it. And I'll eventually get the Orange Box I'm sure. I played the Flash version though, and if its a first-person view of that, well then, amazing.
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Luca Rescigno
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Apr 8, 2008, 01:13 PM
 
They certainly don't make them like they used to, and I think it's kind of a good thing. Not entirely, but to some extent I'm happy with how gaming has changed. That's not to say that old games are all worthless now, but new ones have plenty of things going for them. And I think it'd dead wrong to say that modern games just aren't good. It's impossible to generalize so broadly.

Look at the old consoles. There were SO MANY terrible games for them. That hasn't changed. Modern consoles also have a huge number of awful games. It's just a fact of life, and it applies to games, movies, music, and most other creative ventures. However, there are also gems among games old and new.

I don't think the increased focus on graphics has hurt gameplay. There are plenty of great new games that have both stunning graphics and great gameplay (see Metroid Prime 3). The increased focus on graphics has just given people a reason they can point to when they experience a crappy game. The truth is that the quality of a game's graphics and its gameplay are independent of each other and mostly have to do with how much emphasis the developer placed on their respective development teams.

So the quantity of terrible games certainly hasn't changed, and I don't think the number of good games has changed much either. What is different is how games are generally designed now. Cinematics and storytelling are definitely new things. I have to say I kinda like it. It's easier to get engrossed in a game that tells a good story (mind you, it also has to have good gameplay). The other big change is how much more you can do in each game. Games used to be controlled with four-directional pad and a button or two. Now that we have analog sticks, lots of buttons, and motion controls, games are far more exciting and complex. Old games are still fun (I just played a couple hours of Mario 3 last night on my Wii) but being able to do more than run and jump is lots of fun too.

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Apr 8, 2008, 03:31 PM
 
Sounds like none of you guys have played Bioshock yet.

Bioshock is just an amazing story game. The way the story unfurls through wall art, personal diary recording snippets and other information allowing you to feel like a detective trying to piece together what happened to this underwater utopia is quite amazing. I haven't had a game since KotOR keep me pulled in and playing until the wee hours of the morning looking for just one more clue. Bioshock hit me as a videogame version of a great sci-fi novel.
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sek929
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Apr 8, 2008, 04:45 PM
 
I beat BioShock three times, it was an excellent game but...still very "go here and do this" then "go here and shoot this" oriented. Story is top-notch, graphics and sound are almost to good, and it was longer than mostly any other game for the newer systems.

I adore the story line of the Half-Life series, I've gone through HL2 at least 10 times now.
     
sek929
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Apr 8, 2008, 04:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
I do have either an NES or an SNES, or rather, my older brother does, but I can easily get it from him I'm sure. And Super Metroid can't be more than $5 or $10. Maybe.
I ordered mine off eBay for 16$ plus shipping. Worth every cent, playing the emulator isn't the same as the using the tough-as-nails SNES controller.

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
My guess is you'd be a Crysis man. Whatever way you want to go is up to you. Grabbing chickens is still an option, but you'll need to replacing chopping down bushes with shooting down trees, which I've done for maybe not 12 hours, but a good amount of time.
Unless she is coming out for 360 I will never play it. My G4 can barely handle Youtube videos.

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
Do you still suggest I get it?
Oh hellz yeah! The game is really long as far as new-gen FPS go and the graphics are simply stunning. The last Boss will have you thinking you are playing a different game though.


Originally Posted by Mac User #001 View Post
Haven't gotten a chance to play it yet.. Though I got a free download option through a graphics card update, I just haven't gotten around to downloading it. And I'll eventually get the Orange Box I'm sure. I played the Flash version though, and if its a first-person view of that, well then, amazing.
As said above I adore Half-Life, Portal just happened to be worth the 60 bucks alone. It's short, but you can go back and master it until levels that had you scratching your head are laughably easy.
     
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Apr 8, 2008, 04:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
My G4 can barely handle Youtube videos.
What G4 do you have?
     
sek929
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Apr 8, 2008, 05:03 PM
 
733 Quicksilver with Nvidia GeForce 2MX (32MB)

It'll run a youtube video, but forget about sites with more than one Flash ad. I have to set them to low quality to scroll the site without a 4 second lag.
     
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Apr 8, 2008, 05:07 PM
 
Wow - perhaps you don't have enough RAM?
     
sek929
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Apr 8, 2008, 05:14 PM
 
Maxed out at 1.5GB.

Flash just sucks balls. I can run almost all my apps at the same time but I can't see three Flash ads at the same time, gimme a f**kin break.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Apr 8, 2008, 05:16 PM
 
Flash sucks on all G4 Macs. It's really inefficient in general, but most processors these days are so fast you don't notice it. Not so with G4s. I haven't tried flash on a G5. Not sure how well it would work.

I used to have a 1.5 GHz 12" PowerBook G4, and it ran YouTube videos like crap. They were watchable, mostly, but compared to anything with a Pentium 4 or better, they were terrible.

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sek929
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Apr 8, 2008, 05:20 PM
 
It's the only thing that slows my Mac down. I can even run 420p trailers full-screen, but a couple Flash ads make it run like a Celeron with Windows ME.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 8, 2008, 07:19 PM
 
420p? Do you get full 2.0 stereo sound too?
     
sek929
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Apr 9, 2008, 07:46 AM
 
dammit, 480p

You bastard.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 08:12 AM
 
Actually, I didn't catch that either, I was just mocking your 1990s technology.
     
sek929
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Apr 9, 2008, 12:37 PM
 
Hey! My G4 was bought in 2001...millennium sh!t baby!
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 12:40 PM
 
I meant the 480p and 2.0 stereo... nevermind.
     
sek929
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Apr 9, 2008, 12:45 PM
 
It's not funny if you have to explain it.

jerk-ass

Edit: well it looks like we've ruined another perfectly good thread...
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 12:51 PM
 
Here, I'll try to bring it back on topic.

No they don't make games like they used to, because I (sometimes) miss the ability to just pick up a game and play with little-to-no learning curve. While the complexity of new control schemes allows for great immersion into game play, I miss some of the old simple games (problem is those games can become kinda stale quick, but whatever).
     
sek929
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Apr 9, 2008, 12:56 PM
 
I don't like how most games don't allow you to set your own controller scheme, and I know Dakar agrees with me on this one.

For instance, in RSV2 reload is 'X' while my preferred setup is 'RB' like Halo 3. They have 3 built in schemes and all of them are pretty much the same. How hard is it to let people designate their own button layout? Free SNES emulators let you do this for christsakes.

I loved Orange Box (and even HL2 for original xbox) because you set the buttons any way you like them. Want jump to be clicking in the thumbstick? No problem!
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I don't like how most games don't allow you to set your own controller scheme, and I know Dakar agrees with me on this one.
Ha! It's pure laziness.

I forget what game I played where I thanked the gods they had an option for a GTA-like scheme.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Apr 9, 2008, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
Here, I'll try to bring it back on topic.

No they don't make games like they used to, because I (sometimes) miss the ability to just pick up a game and play with little-to-no learning curve. While the complexity of new control schemes allows for great immersion into game play, I miss some of the old simple games (problem is those games can become kinda stale quick, but whatever).
They both have their places. I've gone on the Wii Shop Channel and bought Mario 3 and Kirby's Adventure and they're really fun. Great games if I just want to sit down and relax, but quite challenging as well (well, Mario 3 is challenging, Kirby isn't).

New games really do have great immersion. When I pick up Metroid Prime 3, I'm Samus and I'm saving the galaxy, and it's epic. When I play Super Mario Bros., though, I'm just trying to get to the end of the level. They're both fun, but in totally different ways.

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Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 02:21 PM
 
God, I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Wii.

Sorry, but something that requires me to use my arm and wrist does not count.
     
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Apr 9, 2008, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Unless she is coming out for 360 I will never play it. My G4 can barely handle Youtube videos.
Hehe. Umm, I'm not sure if that'll happen. It's been talked about though. We'll see.

Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
Oh hellz yeah! The game is really long as far as new-gen FPS go and the graphics are simply stunning. The last Boss will have you thinking you are playing a different game though.
Awesome. I had planned on getting it anyways, so only really negative feedback would have made me think about it.
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Luca Rescigno
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Apr 9, 2008, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth View Post
God, I was hoping someone wouldn't mention the Wii.

Sorry, but something that requires me to use my arm and wrist does not count.
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything about the Wii's pointer or motion controls. You can replace my comment about Metroid Prime 3 with one about Call Of Duty 4 (another game that I love), which is controlled with a keyboard and mouse.

On the other hand, that also requires the use of your arm and wrist. As does every single other game, ever, other than Dance Dance Revolution.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 9, 2008, 04:58 PM
 
Keyboard and mouse? No, sir, I'm talking controllers. No arm and wrist action necessary.

When I talk about pick and play simplicity, I'm talking stuff on the level of NBA Jam or Road Rash. But there's no market for that kind of simplicity. You couldn't sell a game like that for $60 nowadays, and no one is going to make a game that sells for $30 or even less.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 10, 2008, 10:40 AM
 
Ah, I just remembered a prefect example of a simple game I'd like to see remade/return: Street of Rage. Simple beat 'em up, but pretty satisfying, and it became even more fun once a second player was added.

Double Dragon would probably qualify for the same reason.
     
Aegis
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Apr 10, 2008, 12:27 PM
 
Well at least there's something like Xbox Arcade games. That seems to be a good method of getting out simple but inexpensive games. I'm really looking forward to Bionic Commando.
     
Dakar the Fourth
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Apr 10, 2008, 12:33 PM
 
Yeah, I don't like the idea of how limited use that DLC is.

I may break-out the old emulator on my PowerBook this weekend.
     
ApeInTheShell
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Apr 11, 2008, 04:04 PM
 
I dare the gaming industry to remake the classic Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde that was on the NES.
     
Aegis
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Apr 13, 2008, 10:03 PM
 
Remakes are such a tricky thing. Sometimes you can't remake something without changing it's whole essence. Take Hokuto no Ken on NES. You punch people until their heads explode. It's quite comical seeing those blocky pixels scatter but if it was made today it'd be really dark and gruesome.
     
hokie17
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Apr 14, 2008, 04:59 AM
 
Look up DarwiinRemote. Lets you use the Wiimote (and anything that hooks to it) with OS X. You can set buttons to keystrokes. It's great, I can use it as my controller in NESTopia.

I'm addicted to Castlevania again.
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highstakes
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Apr 20, 2008, 01:04 PM
 
Metal Gear Solid was a bad ass game, wish they would re-release that on the PSN or XBL
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Sarc
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Apr 20, 2008, 01:33 PM
 
Deus Ex for me. I play that game all over every 2 years or so.
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Luca Rescigno
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Apr 22, 2008, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by highstakes View Post
Metal Gear Solid was a bad ass game, wish they would re-release that on the PSN or XBL
You could always pick up a used GameCube for, like, $30 and play MGS: Twin Snakes on it.

Seriously, they really are that cheap. The Wii's driven the price way down since it's fully backward compatible, but if you don't want to spend $250+ on one, the GameCube is a good option. It's extremely durable and there are lots of good games for it.

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revMedia
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Apr 22, 2008, 08:44 PM
 
A friend and I just downloaded Gun Star Heroes on the Wii a couple nights ago. It took us about 3 hours to finish.

Good old games like that certainly are easy to pick up and play, and since it's a little piece of what you remember growing up, they have an endearing value to them.

The modern video game industry is a much different beast. It's bigger than hollywood, with production value to match in a lot of cases. I think gamers today take it a lot more serious than we did back in the day.

Some crazy good games being made today though. Gears of War was amazing, albeit short lived, but while it lasted it blew me away (best use of a chainsaw in any game ever BTW

Anyway, just my .02

- js
     
olePigeon
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Apr 22, 2008, 09:42 PM
 
I think the older computers and consoles forced programmers to write efficient code and to concentrate on game play & story rather than graphics.

I haven't seen a real innovate game in a very long time. Most of them seem to just be some sort of evolution of the original Doom. Better graphics, maybe an OK story. Nothing innovative or entertaining enough for me to even bother.
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you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F. Roberts
     
 
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