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Rickster · Nov 27, 2003, 10:23 PM

I've gotten spoiled on watching TV the DVR way at the office... no being bound to the TV schedule, no commercials. But I'm spending more time at home lately (now that we have kittens) and sitting through 40 minutes total of commercials during Stargate every monday sucks.

At the office we have a couple of ReplayTV 4000 series units. They're great -- fairly reliable auto commercial skipping (and the 30-sec-forward, 7-sec-back system as a good backup if auto-skip doesn't work), connects via ethernet, generally friendly onscreen UI, ability to share shows with other Replays (and computer apps which masquerade as Replays) over LAN. But for buying new, they look pretty expensive.

On the other hand, there's TiVo. Looks like it's cheaper (though it also looks like there might be more hidden costs than with the Replay), and there are some interesting options like one box that's a DVD player, TiVo, and DVD-R. But I haven't used the service myself, and don't know anyone who has it. I've heard some somewhat disturbing things about it, too: supposedly it tells the TiVo people what you've been recording, and automatically records stuff it thinks you'll like, for example.

I know there are some comparison points I don't care about: I don't need much disk space, and I can ignore the whole photo/music sharing thing since our iTunes/iPhoto station is in the same room as the TV.

So, anyone have any experience with TiVo? I'd love to hear about it. Is it easy to hack it so you can download video to a Mac (or vice versa)? Does it have to use a phone line to download TV schedules or can it use an existing boradband Internet connection? Any box/service price comparison issues to be aware of?

tr · 10:43 PM

i don't have one, but was looking into it for my mom. for some good info and experiences, you might want to check out the tivo community forum.

there was this for extracting stuff from a series 1, but don't think you can do this on a series 2...? also check out the dealdatabase forums for extracting info (kinda seems like an unlikely place for tivo info, but it's there

).

tr

starman · Nov 27, 2003, 10:46 PM

TiVo is awesome. Can't live without it.

Every minute you don't have one is another minute of commercials you have to sit through

.

Mike

Worst. Episode. Ever. · Nov 27, 2003, 11:16 PM

Another vote for TiVo here. I can't imagine watching TV without it.

subego · 11:54 PM

Love, love, love my TiVo!

It is however, not particularly hackable, especially compared to a Replay. You can't archive shows on anything other than a VHS, DVD (if you have the bling for one of the new units), or another TiVo.

"Hidden" costs are either a $300 lifetime subscription, or a $13 monthly fee, you pick. HMO is another $100 but you say you don't want that. It also only has an internal modem and USB I/O, so if you want to get updates over your network, you are going to have to spring for a USB/Ethernet adaptor.

I don't have a Replay, but my research indicates TiVo has a far superior user interface, especially in terms of recording a specific program no matter when it comes on.

No commercial skip on a TiVo, and the 30 second skip has to be activated with a code. While this would seem to be advantage: Replay, it's this kind of low-key policy that has kept TiVo from being sued into the poor house.

It might be a rationalization, but I think I made the right choice. I would like to have the ability to tinker more, but when it comes down to it, TV is all about wasting time. Do I need to waste more time tweaking the thing?

P.S. Tivo has a replay function, but it jumps back 8 seconds. This shows TiVo is clearly superior.

P.P.S. As for it telling the TiVo people what you watch, and the TiVo picking out shows for you, it does both. I'd let the former bother me if I hadn't already turned into a TiVo zombie by the time I found out.

TiVo claims they don't attach names to viewing data. Take that for what you will.

subego · Nov 27, 2003, 11:53 PM

Double post.

Sorry

Dale Sorel · Nov 28, 2003, 12:17 AM

TiVo rules...watch what you want when you want...don't waste your life watching garbage...watch an hour of TV in 45 minutes...skip the parts you're not interested in...give me time, I'm sure I'll think of more

Hannah W · Nov 28, 2003, 12:45 AM

Sounds great, pity we don't have it over here. Maybe soon!

Mediaman_12 · Nov 28, 2003, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by Hannah W:
Sounds great, pity we don't have it over here. Maybe soon!

Do you have a Murdoch owned Satalite network over there?
If you do then a PVR system may be on the way.
Sky Satalite TV in the UK (Murdoch owned) has been running a a PVR system called Sky+ for about a year, and I can't recomend it enough. It's as big a change to TV as the introduction of colour. You stop looking at the TV scehdules as a time based list and look think of it more like a menu of programes you can whatch at your chosing. It ROCKS!

Kilbey · Nov 28, 2003, 02:57 PM

You know you are addicted to TiVo when you want to replay things in life other than TV.

In the car is the worst. I know they have tivo like devices for the radio, but the quality is crap.

And some times I wish I could tivo the outrageous things my father-in-law says and play them back for him.

Eug · Nov 28, 2003, 03:02 PM

Panasonic DMR-E80H DVD-RAM/DVD-R recorder, with built-in hard-drive.

nerd · Nov 28, 2003, 03:47 PM

I personally don't like Tivo in the current setting I've used it. Now I would use one at home, that would be great. The problem is we use it here at work to record the competition, you can't play back video off one Tivos drive to 2 or more Tivos because of the slow USB speed. Were using USB to Ethernet converters. Major bummer, and now we have 4 units here there's no switching to RePlay TV.

Like I said I would use one at home but if you plan on streaming the video to more then one unit at a time I would look at RePlay TV for the built in ethernet.

Brad

jonn804 · Nov 28, 2003, 06:36 PM

TiVo -
Pro: great, fast, finds like programs for you.
Con: requires phone line, monthly fee

ReplayTV -
Pro: uses Ethernet for nightly download
Con: slow when scrowing throug channels, high initial set-up fee

AKcrab · Nov 28, 2003, 10:13 PM

What about EyeTV? Anyone use it?

gorickey · Nov 28, 2003, 10:20 PM

Does TiVo support HDTV? And if not, when is the Series 3 version due? Hasn't Series 2 been out for a few years?

OwlBoy · Nov 28, 2003, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Does TiVo support HDTV? And if not, when is the Series 3 version due? Hasn't Series 2 been out for a few years?

No HDTV yet, I hear they are working on it though! (Maybe Series 3)

As far as these go: is it super hard to get files off of the TiVo? I am considering the ReplayTV since it has the network functions... Another question, if I were to buy a brand new one, would it work with DVArchive?

Is there any way to have my mac get stuff off of a new TiVo?

I will love the ability to record shows in high quality on its own, but I would also love to be able to save those files.

-Owl

gorickey · Nov 28, 2003, 10:30 PM

Also, from what I have read there is a $300 one-time "lifetime" subscription option to TiVo; however, that service is tied in directly to a specific TiVo and is non-transferrable to another TiVo or future upgrade (Series 3)...is this correct?

If so, wouldn't it be smart to buy one on eBay that already has the service bought for life on it?

OwlBoy · Nov 28, 2003, 10:34 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
Also, from what I have read there is a $300 one-time "lifetime" subscription option to TiVo; however, that service is tied in directly to a specific TiVo and is non-transferrable to another TiVo or future upgrade (Series 3)...is this correct?

If so, wouldn't it be smart to buy one on eBay that already has the service bought for life on it?

Well, that is correct it is the lifetime of the PRODUCT not yours.

But I *think* when serese 2 came out they did a special deal for owners of the last model due to an uproar over their definition of lifetime...

-Owl

vmpaul · Nov 28, 2003, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by OwlBoy:

Is there any way to have my mac get stuff off of a new TiVo?

I will love the ability to record shows in high quality on its own, but I would also love to be able to save those files.

-Owl

I think some of the new DVD Recorders have TiVo installed so then you can record something off the hard disk to a DVD-R for archival pruposes.

Not sure what brands.

gorickey · Nov 28, 2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by vmpaul:
I think some of the new DVD Recorders have TiVo installed so then you can record something off the hard disk to a DVD-R for archival pruposes.

Not sure what brands.

One was posted in this thread actually...

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...67#post1720162

vmpaul · Nov 29, 2003, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
One was posted in this thread actually...

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...67#post1720162

Dude, you linked to this same thread. Maybe you shouldn't post without that 1st cup of java in the morning?

Anyways, here's a model with the works on it. Retail is around $600. I bet we'll see these things for around $200-300 in the next year.

gorickey · Nov 29, 2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Dude, you linked to this same thread. Maybe you shouldn't post without that 1st cup of java in the morning?

Anyways, here's a model with the works on it. Retail is around $600. I bet we'll see these things for around $200-300 in the next year.

I know I did; hence, me saying "One was posted in this thread already"...I made a link to the brand already mentioned prior and to which the previous poster didn't know...

Java? Need none.

vmpaul · Nov 29, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by gorickey:
I know I did; hence, me saying "One was posted in this thread already"...I made a link to the brand already mentioned prior and to which the previous poster didn't know...

Java? Need none.

OK, maybe I NEED coffee. I don't see a link to a model with a HD, recorder and TiVo installed. Eug's link doesn't have TiVo. Is that what you're talking about?

Sorry for the confusion.

gorickey · Nov 29, 2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by vmpaul:
OK, maybe I NEED coffee. I don't see a link to a model with a HD, recorder and TiVo installed. Eug's link doesn't have TiVo. Is that what you're talking about?

Sorry for the confusion.

Ahh, it doesn't have TiVo indeed...silly me, thanks for clarifying that...

Now, where did I put that cup of java afterall?

Montezuma58 · Nov 30, 2003, 09:11 PM

For more info on ReplayTV's go to the ReplayTV section of AVSforum.com. The newer ReplayTV's (the 5500) series don't have the automatic commercial skip. You'll have to buy a used or refurbished unit to get that feature. Also there are some caveats about streaming shows between units. The 4xxx models can't share with 5xxx models so watch out for this if you want to get multiple units used.

I have two 4000's and really like them. I also have a series 1 Tivo that goes pretty much unused. When I got them, the ReplayTVs were more advanced than the Tivo but I don't think that is the case now with the new series 2 Tivos. If I were to buy today I would go with the newer Tivos. If the ReplayTV's still included the automatic commercial skip I might feel differently. I thought that was the main advantage ReplayTV had over Tivo. Also ReplayTV has chosen to not make their newer models compatible with the equipment I have now so I really have no incentive to stick with them.

Scotttheking · Nov 30, 2003, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by Rickster:
[On the other hand, there's TiVo. Looks like it's cheaper (though it also looks like there might be more hidden costs than with the Replay), and there are some interesting options like one box that's a DVD player, TiVo, and DVD-R. But I haven't used the service myself, and don't know anyone who has it. I've heard some somewhat disturbing things about it, too: supposedly it tells the TiVo people what you've been recording,

Not sure what you mean by hidden costs, it's either $13/month or a lifetime fee, which is the life of the box.
It tells what shows, but doesn't link that info. It's for market research and stuff.

and automatically records stuff it thinks you'll like, for example.

That's an option, you can turn it on or off. I personally keep it off.

So, anyone have any experience with TiVo? I'd love to hear about it. Is it easy to hack it so you can download video to a Mac (or vice versa)? Does it have to use a phone line to download TV schedules or can it use an existing boradband Internet connection? Any box/service price comparison issues to be aware of?

I have no idea about hacking it, I like mine how it is, although I may add another HD, which I hear is pretty easy.

It uses a phone line, new edition tivos can get an ethernet adaptor.

fulmer · Nov 30, 2003, 10:54 PM

I have the replaytv. Love it. I find the interface easy to read and to use. You can use dvarchive to save the recorded programming to your computer, but you better have loads of HD space (nothing prevents you from copying the shows to external or internal drives).

iDriveX · Dec 1, 2003, 12:23 AM

Originally posted by jonn804:
TiVo -
Pro: great, fast, finds like programs for you.
Con: requires phone line, monthly fee

ReplayTV -
Pro: uses Ethernet for nightly download
Con: slow when scrowing throug channels, high initial set-up fee

Re: TiVo Cons....

It does not require a phone line. Depending on the TiVo unit you buy (I have the Sony Unit) and any series 3 TiVo has a USB port on the back of it. If you buy a Linksys USB - Ethernet or USB - 802.11b adapter, you can have the TiVo "dial out" and get guide data over ethernet or via Airport like I have at my own home.

Also I would strongly advise against doing the "Lifetime" option. It's a $299.00 option that allows you to avoid the monthly fee, but it's tied to the lifetime of the actual machine. If your machine goes ka-poot or you want to upgrade to (one day) a Series 4 machine. You will have to pay another $299.00 for that machine. It's non transferrable. I consider paying $12.95 a month a very very cheap fee to have the flexibility the TiVo gives you.

OAW · Dec 1, 2003, 01:22 PM

I have the dual-tuner RCA DirecTV receiver with the MS UltimateTV software. I don't think you can buy any new UltimateTV boxes these days, but you can get your hands on one on eBay. At the time I bought this box, it was the first dual-tuner DirectTV DVR ... and while Tivo does this now it still can't do PIP like the UltimateTV box can. Personally, I just like the GUI and navigation on the UltimateTV box. The ability to display CallerID info on the TV screen is also very cool. I suppose I will go with a Tivo one of these days. But as long as my UltimateTV box is still working, I really have no reason to "switch".

Now of course, if an DirecTV were to release a Tivo box with the Home Media Option so I could access my pictures and music over my home network then I would dump my UltimateTV box in a heartbeat. But until then I'll just stick with what I have.

OAW

euchomai · Dec 1, 2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by OAW:
I have the dual-tuner RCA DirecTV receiver with the MS UltimateTV software

I have the same one and really like it a lot. Simple to use, PIP and 20 hours of full quality video. My dad's VCR just crapped out on him, so I was looking for info about Tivo, glad I lurk and sometimes post here, great info. Do you have any idea how much longer UltimateTV will be offered if they don't have machinery for it anymore?

thunderous_funker · Dec 1, 2003, 03:58 PM

IMO, TiVo with only one tuner is only marginally more useful than a VCR.

Get the DirecTV unit with 2 tuners.

OAW · Dec 1, 2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by euchomai:
I have the same one and really like it a lot. Simple to use, PIP and 20 hours of full quality video. My dad's VCR just crapped out on him, so I was looking for info about Tivo, glad I lurk and sometimes post here, great info. Do you have any idea how much longer UltimateTV will be offered if they don't have machinery for it anymore?

Only 20 hours? The one I have is supposed to hold 35 ... though I've never actually counted. As for UltimateTV, my understanding is that DirecTV will continue to support it as long as their current customers have it. They'd be silly not to since they are getting a monthly fee for a "service" which is nothing more than enabling the software that is already on the box. I've also heard of no plans to try to get the current UTV users to switch over to a Tivo box.

OAW

OAW · Dec 1, 2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
IMO, TiVo with only one tuner is only marginally more useful than a VCR.

Get the DirecTV unit with 2 tuners.

Indeed. Whether it's Tivo or UltimateTV or whatever ... the integrated DirecTV unit with 2 tuners is where it's at.

OAW

-Q- · Dec 1, 2003, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by OAW:
Indeed. Whether it's Tivo or UltimateTV or whatever ... the integrated DirecTV unit with 2 tuners is where it's at.

OAW

Unless you live in an area that can't be served by DirectTV.

-Q- · Dec 1, 2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by iDriveX:
Re: TiVo Cons....

It does not require a phone line. Depending on the TiVo unit you buy (I have the Sony Unit) and any series 3 TiVo has a USB port on the back of it. If you buy a Linksys USB - Ethernet or USB - 802.11b adapter, you can have the TiVo "dial out" and get guide data over ethernet or via Airport like I have at my own home.

This is definitely the coolest thing. And it was painless to set up. Just plugged in the Linksys USB adaptor and it found my wireless network no problem. To be honest, I wonder why this wasn't included in the first few revisions of the software?

Also I would strongly advise against doing the "Lifetime" option. It's a $299.00 option that allows you to avoid the monthly fee, but it's tied to the lifetime of the actual machine. If your machine goes ka-poot or you want to upgrade to (one day) a Series 4 machine. You will have to pay another $299.00 for that machine. It's non transferrable. I consider paying $12.95 a month a very very cheap fee to have the flexibility the TiVo gives you.

I don't know that I agree with this. If you use the TiVo for 2 years w/out upgrading to another box, you've just spent the $300 for the lifetime subscription. And if you just expand the recording capabilities with a new HDD, you can get quite a few years out of the TiVo. I guess it really depends on how you plan to use the TiVo and what kind of 'lifetime' you plan on getting out of the box. Me, I'll be using this thing until it dies.

But I can't recommend TiVo highly enough. It really does change the way you interact with your TV. I do have to warn you tho' - you can get quite a snooty attitude when people ask if you've seen the latest commercials and you reply 'I don't watch commercials...I have tivo.'

Arkham_c · Dec 1, 2003, 07:06 PM

I absolutely love my TiVo. I added a second 100GB hard drive (157 hours total) and it totally changed our lives. We don't work our schedule around TV -- TV works aroudn us. We've very often watched a TV series 5-6 weeks behind the actual schedule when we had time. I don't have to rush my kids to bed to watch shows I don't want them to see.

TiVo has lots of nice things that Replay lacks, like the scheduler (you can know for certain whether TiVo will record a show -- with Replay you don't kno for certain).

As to HDTV, TiVo announced HTDT TiVos a long time ago when they announced the Home Media Option. I don't know that they are shipping yet (might be), but it's not a matter of speculation, just a matter of time.

I have friend who have ReplayTV and like it, but I think if you watch a lot of TV the TiVo is the way to go. If you have DirecTV, the DirecTivo is even better since it can record two shows on two different channels at the same time while you watch a third, previously-recorded show.

OwlBoy · Dec 1, 2003, 09:50 PM

I just found out about this site:

www.replaytvoutlet.com Might help you decide...

It is an official site too.

-Owl

Rickster · Dec 2, 2003, 06:41 AM

Thanks for all the info, folks!

It ended up being almost a moot question, though, since I was able to get a used Replay box for insanely cheap (with the lifetime activation transferring, it's really insanely cheap compared to getting a new box and service for either brand), thanks to the office buying a second 4xxx box in order to network between our two TVs. Works great.

I'm still not sure which brand I'd go for if I was buying new... thus far they each have their strong points. I guess I'll see which one's better in a few years when it's time to replace this one.