Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Lorinserbenz · Nov 5, 2003, 02:22 PM

Apples handling of the white spot issue is a joke. I went through three 15 Al 1.25 Powerbooks only to upgrade to a flawless 17 inch Powerbook.
My girlfriend wanted a new laptop so we went to the local Apple store and she wanted the 15 inch model. Having been through 3 units 3 weeks ago I told her no. She asked the sales person if they had fixed the issues with the screens, the sales person said yes, that the first few units had the problem and it has been corrected.
We took her new PB home and it was perfect for a DAY, two whitespots the next morning. Returend the unit and Received a second one. No spots on this unit for two days, then BAM two nice white eyes staring at us.
I took the unit to my local Apple store along with a printouts from this website, Silicon Valley news, and various Mac sites with info on the spot issue. The response this time.... um um yes this is a known issue. In order to fix it you have to send the unit in for repair. The repair time is 7-10 days! In other words buy a new item that is DEFECTIVE out of the box then make the consumer go without it for 10 days!!! This is complete BS, Apple needs to come clean and acknowledge that they have a problem and STOP selling units that came off the first run. In the past I have seen many companies come clean and state they have a problem and RECALL units in the stores. Selling products that are known to be defective is flat out WRONG. I will NEVER again rush out to get Apples latest product.

machem · Nov 5, 2003, 03:09 PM

There are obviously "unfixed" 15s in the channel. You are bound to get one from an Apple Store.

I'm about to order my replacement for my 15", as it appears a fix has been found. Mine will be a BTO, so it won't be taken out of stock.

ProLyfic · Nov 5, 2003, 03:18 PM

Lorinserbenz, I totally agree with you, but others on this board feel that Apple is doing the right thing. People are saying yeah there are white spots, but it is still usuable and that they said Apple is trying to fix the problem. First off, There SHOULD NOT have been a problem in the frist place. A little off topic but do you have a Lorinser Benz cause those are really, and I mean really nice and if you do

for you. What model and year do you own if I may ask?

Lorinserbenz · Nov 5, 2003, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by ProLyfic:
Lorinserbenz, I totally agree with you, but others on this board feel that Apple is doing the right thing. People are saying yeah there are white spots, but it is still usuable and that they said Apple is trying to fix the problem. First off, There SHOULD NOT have been a problem in the frist place. A little off topic but do you have a Lorinser Benz cause those are really, and I mean really nice and if you do for you. What model and year do you own if I may ask?

I am just so annoyed that Apple does not admit to a problem. Selling broken product out of the box is just plan wrong.
My benz was a 97 E320 with LM-5s, full lorinser kit, full Lorinser exhaust,Lorinser steering wheel/shift knob. I sold it on Ebay last year

Bought a 97 S600 and a 2002 Avalanche.
http://idisk.mac.com/ebayaudio/Public/DSCN1016.JPG

ProLyfic · Nov 5, 2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Lorinserbenz:
I am just so annoyed that Apple does not admit to a problem. Selling broken product out of the box is just plan wrong.
My benz was a 97 E320 with LM-5s, full lorinser kit, full Lorinser exhaust,Lorinser steering wheel/shift knob. I sold it on Ebay last year Bought a 97 S600 and a 2002 Avalanche.
http://idisk.mac.com/ebayaudio/Public/DSCN1016.JPG

Wow S600! Those are nice as well. Now back to Apple, people who are defending Apple have said that they have released a statement, which does not really do much. Apple has a website, I wonder why they don't use it for things like this. Other people say its our fault, sure it is. People say only a small percentage of powerbooks are defective, yeah anything over 5 percent is a lot for a company that thrives on hardware sales. The bottom line, Apple f**cked up on the 15 AL powerbooks.

TheIceMan · Nov 6, 2003, 02:39 AM

Lorinserbenz: Agreed completely. Five 15" PowerBooks ALL defective within such a short period of time. This means (1)you are very unlucky, BUT more importantly (2)Apple is releasing faulty products KNOWINGLY.

Since news about the white spots is on several prominent web sites AND Apple has admitted that these white spots are a problem. The right thing to do is to STOP selling these defective models. Heck, remember the Firestone tires incident. Yes, personal safety and automobile issues aside, the tires were recalled.

I don't think Mac users would blame Apple for mistakes or poor QA.

What Apple needs to do is:
1. Do a better job with testing BOTH hardware and softwares.

2. If or when a bug or flaw in hardware or software does slip by unnoticed, be honest and upfront about it. They need to say "yeah, we've got it. Here's what you need to do . . . " and post the relevant info on their website instead of remaining silent. Mac.ars

Lorinserbenz · Nov 6, 2003, 03:17 AM

Originally posted by TheIceMan:
Lorinserbenz: Agreed completely. Five 15" PowerBooks ALL defective within such a short period of time. This means (1)you are very unlucky, BUT more importantly (2)Apple is releasing faulty products KNOWINGLY.

Since news about the white spots is on several prominent web sites AND Apple has admitted that these white spots are a problem. The right thing to do is to STOP selling these defective models. Heck, remember the Firestone tires incident. Yes, personal safety and automobile issues aside, the tires were recalled.

I don't think Mac users would blame Apple for mistakes or poor QA.

What Apple needs to do is:
1. Do a better job with testing BOTH hardware and softwares.

2. If or when a bug or flaw in hardware or software does slip by unnoticed, be honest and upfront about it. They need to say "yeah, we've got it. Here's what you need to do . . . " and post the relevant info on their website instead of remaining silent. Mac.ars

The people in the Apple store have been nice but they seem like they are holding back on information. Apple seems to have "hush hush" mentality. This time it is going to bite them in the butt. I , like many others on this board buy product the day is released. No more for me.... I will wait...
I love Apple products, they make terrific computers and an awesome OS. However the customer skills are lacking in the communication department. A simple statement saying we have a issue with our lcds, and we will exchange your unit when the revised models are avaible would be nice. Had something like this been said I would have kept both of the 15inch Al's I bought.
I am not mad at Apple, just disappointed...

TheIceMan · Nov 6, 2003, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Lorinserbenz:
I am not mad at Apple, just disappointed.

Yup. Very very disappointed.

terrancew_hod · Nov 6, 2003, 09:14 AM

So does anyone have an ideal of how long it takes to replace the screen? I'm going to call the Apple Store where I bought it later today to see if they'll replace the screen or the whole thing. If it's the whole thing, I'll have them take it out and boot it up...

Terrance

Lorinserbenz · Nov 6, 2003, 02:44 PM

The Apple store qouted me 7-10 days.

terrancew_hod · Nov 6, 2003, 10:40 PM

I took my Powerbook back to the Apple store and they offered me an exchange. We took it out and checked for white spots...all clear...

So hopefully I don't see any coming back!!! I'm upgrading to Panther now (they forgot to give me the upgrade disks the last time). So now I can start setting up and enjoying my powerbook....

Terrance

Lorinserbenz · Nov 6, 2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by terrancew_hod:
I took my Powerbook back to the Apple store and they offered me an exchange. We took it out and checked for white spots...all clear...

So hopefully I don't see any coming back!!! I'm upgrading to Panther now (they forgot to give me the upgrade disks the last time). So now I can start setting up and enjoying my powerbook....

Terrance

Terrance,
The last one I bought (4 days ago) was perfect out of the box. After two days it had spots, the second exchange was good for a day. I hope your second one works out for you. They should have given you a $20 discount for Panther. The two I had were supposed to have Panther inside the box but did not.

spatterson · Nov 7, 2003, 03:01 AM

Originally posted by terrancew_hod:
I took my Powerbook back to the Apple store and they offered me an exchange. We took it out and checked for white spots...all clear...

So hopefully I don't see any coming back!!! I'm upgrading to Panther now (they forgot to give me the upgrade disks the last time). So now I can start setting up and enjoying my powerbook....

Terrance

Keep an eye on it... Send it back if you see one. Many users are geting the spots weeks after their purchase. Good luck!

terrancew_hod · Nov 7, 2003, 08:07 AM

Well, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

Terrance

BearOso · Nov 7, 2003, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Lorinserbenz:
Terrance,
The last one I bought (4 days ago) was perfect out of the box. After two days it had spots, the second exchange was good for a day. I hope your second one works out for you. They should have given you a $20 discount for Panther. The two I had were supposed to have Panther inside the box but did not.

No panther inside the box probably means it was a powerbook that was packaged/produced earlier. It may not have incorporated the alleged fix yet. If you keep getting older powerbooks from an exchange, then it's probably better to just go the repair route, or at least get a replacement from a different place.

critterdoc · Nov 7, 2003, 11:56 AM

Having finally decided to go-aluminum, the White Spot threat has me blinking.

Off I go to examine Alu's at the local CompUSA store and am astonished when I lightly pressed on the back/top of the display of a 15" Alu with the tip of my index finger while the computer is running and see a finger tip sized sci-fi type artifact (as tho I had dipped my finger tip in water and viewed the 3-D result from below the surface) appear on the active surface of the flat panel. When dragging my finger tip across the thin alum skin, the artifact trailed the contact point over the entire surface of the flat panel. Beautiful, but scary. The 12 and 17 were verily much less effected by this same finger tip test.

I'm wondering about two things:

1. What theories have been proffered for the cause of white spots?

2. Can other 15" Alu users confirm that the skins on their covers are as thin and flexible as the unit I tested at CompUSA and can they reproduce the moving artifact on the active surface of their panels by pressing and dragging heir fingers across the aluminum skin on the top surface of their lids?

Crusoe · Nov 7, 2003, 02:45 PM

Well my CTO arrived today. I ordered it on the 20th of October, which was after folks reported that Apple Care was admitting that is has a design flaw.

I have a thumbnail size white spot in the #4 position of macfixit's background right out of the box, arrgh! # 1. But worse than that I have seven dead pixels in a cresent shape all together visible on black backgrounds.
Either defect is covered under warranty.

So I ordered the 20th, shipped the 22nd, arrived at my Mom's the 27th, arrived at my APO the 4th and I picked it up today.
This means Apple knowingly sold me a defective product.

I will wait till I'm sure they have a new design and send it in for repair, probably after the new year. Going to call Monday and get a case number.

Otherwise this is the nicest computer I've ever owned though the first portable of 6 that has had screen defects.

RealMac · Nov 7, 2003, 04:43 PM

FWIW, I'm on my 6th 15" PowerBook G4. Four of the others had white spots and another had a bad airport extreme connector.

ProLyfic · Nov 8, 2003, 01:47 AM

Yikes... 6 Powerbooks!

TribeLeader · Nov 8, 2003, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by Crusoe:
I will wait till I'm sure they have a new design and send it in for repair, probably after the new year. Going to call Monday and get a case number.

Very wise!

RGray02 · Nov 8, 2003, 02:22 PM

Are you guys being overly critical?

Ive got a 1ghz Albook with no problems since Oct 11th. I havent seen a problem with the Compusa unit on 56th street either (I didnt have pixel check, but I opened a number of pdfs and docs). I didnt check the SOHO stores 15 inch units specifically, but when I was there for panther, I didnt see anything usual, though I wasnt looking for em.

Ive run pixel check every two days on my unit. I have yet to find a dead pixel or white spots. Ive checked in the dark and well lit rooms. DVD playback, wordprocessing, I cant seem to find em.

Ive toted my unit around once or twice. I dont have a screen protector.

Perhaps this is overblown? I couldnt see anything at any store I went to.

Lorinserbenz · Nov 8, 2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by RGray02:
Are you guys being overly critical?

Ive got a 1ghz Albook with no problems since Oct 11th. I havent seen a problem with the Compusa unit on 56th street either (I didnt have pixel check, but I opened a number of pdfs and docs). I didnt check the SOHO stores 15 inch units specifically, but when I was there for panther, I didnt see anything usual, though I wasnt looking for em.

Ive run pixel check every two days on my unit. I have yet to find a dead pixel or white spots. Ive checked in the dark and well lit rooms. DVD playback, wordprocessing, I cant seem to find em.

Ive toted my unit around once or twice. I dont have a screen protector.

Perhaps this is overblown? I couldnt see anything at any store I went to.

Guess you do not read Macworld??! 3 out of six units they got were bad! I had five BAD units... this topic may be over talked about but it is VERY real. Check the Apple store there is a 10-15 day wait for new 15 inch Powerbooks. 2 months after a new product is released there SHOULD NOT be a wait.
You are VERY fortunate to get a perfect unit.

RealMac · Nov 9, 2003, 02:25 PM

I wouldn't say we're overreacting. If you've spent $1799+ on a new laptop, you don't want to see huge white blotches showing up on it.

The frequency of this for some people (myself included) is really something that needs to be addressed in as timely a manner as possible.

qnxde · Nov 10, 2003, 08:30 AM

Yeah the 15" albooks are the biggest heap of crap come from apple since the 5300 series. They should recall the entire lot.

Icekey · Nov 10, 2003, 09:18 AM

Having a recall is an overly too much. Think about it, they're spots, they're not the end of the world. You can still function your laptop without any problems. This isn't going to kill anyone as a result either. I think the approach that Apple is taking is fine. If you see a problem, they replace it, no questions asked about how how you handled your laptop. If this issue was occuring on every single powerbook out there, then they should, but at the moment that's not the case. Here is my screen

So as long as Apple finds a fix, and they replace it, I see no reason why this is not an awesome machine.

ProLyfic · 02:15 PM

Fixing/repairing a new machine that is suppose to be "high end" and that cost $2500.00 is just stupid. Sure Apple will fix it but there should not have been a problem in the first place. I think that Apple should allow cash refunds for those that want to return their defective machines (15 Al). No Questions Asked. Probably won't happened but who knows.

iomatic · Nov 10, 2003, 04:29 PM

Can you bring _any_ 15" in to a physical Apple Store and get it exchanged?

Thanks.

RealMac · Nov 11, 2003, 06:00 AM

For what it's worth, I'm on PowerBook #6 and it has white spots. Going to bring it into the Apple Store for a replacement again today I guess.

I have till Nov 15th to do this without having to get it sent out for repair (unless they've changed their store policy).

I'd gladly take an upgrade to a superdrive unit or a 17" for my troubles, but that's just wishful thinking.

I'd send it out for repair, but I can't afford to go 2-4 weeks without a machine. Especially now that projects are going to be due in my classes soon...

Barkey · Nov 11, 2003, 07:06 AM

I've had a PB 15 for about a week, and haven't had the white spots show up yet. I've been handling the cover carefully - I make sure it isn't pressed against when I put it in its case for travel, dont' set anything on top of it, etc... I don't know if this will keep it spot free or not, but it can't hurt.

pbjudge · Nov 12, 2003, 02:56 AM

When I got the BTO computer Oct 14, there were no noticeable problems. After about two weeks of usage, I detected the first white-spot - others followed days later. Now, I have two large smudge-like spots (each one is 1-3 cm in diameter), and multiple smaller & brighter dots in a star-shaped pattern. In the two weeks that have followed, the spots have become brighter (albeit very gradually).

The first spot is just left of center (according to the white-spot-detection JPEG from MacFixit�fs website, it is in Position 1), and the spot is about 3 cm in diameter and is more of a speckled smudge than a spot.

The second spot is right of center (according to the white-spot-detection JPEG from MacFixit�fs website, it is in Position 2) and is not as bright nor as large.

Also there are smaller but much whiter spots in the lower left corner (below the first spot) arranged in a star-pattern (according to the white-spot-detection JPEG from MacFixit, it is just left of Position 4). And more star-dots are appearing in the lower left corner of the screen (nearest to Position 4).

I am talking to Applecare Japan about getting it repaired but due to my inabilities in Japanese, it is taking several calls to make sure I will get it back in a timely manner. THey still are not sure how long it will take...

wy4tt · Nov 12, 2003, 05:02 AM

well, i thought i had a good one until yesterday. i'd had the pb for 2 weeks...then they suddenly showed up yesterday after taking it to school. maybe they're not as portable as they should be. anyway, talked to applecare today, and i'm sending it in. i was told 5-7 business days to get it back. we'll see.

nagromme · Nov 12, 2003, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by iomatic:
Can you bring _any_ 15" in to a physical Apple Store and get it exchanged?

As I understand it, you can only exchange if you buy AT the store and open it right there and find a problem ON THE SPOT.

Otherwise, it's a repair, not exchange issue--although there's always the chance of getting them to make an exception.

For the repair, I have been told that you can bring any standard config into an Apple Store. BTO custom machines, though, should be handled by a phone call first. (I can't see why you wouldn't be told to bring it in anyway--the store can ship it out for you. CompUSA did for me--on an older PowerBook.)

I think I'll buy an AlBook ASSUMING it will be defective. I'll consider it a toy which will be returned later for a new one. If I'm lucky enough to get a perfect one, then I'll put more time into installing everything and count myself lucky. If and when I see a problem, I won't rush in for service--I'll keep going until the time is convenient, and see what other issues develop if any. (Thank goodness I have a backup Mac.)

nagromme · Nov 12, 2003, 07:14 AM

Also, I should point out something about the odds. Defects often come in BATCHES. I remember some big edu orders of eMacs all having bad video cables. That anecdote would make you think nearly every eMac was bad. In fact, that school got all eMacs from a bad batch/time--but as a whole, the problem was rarer. Very much the exception.

That's probably the case with this too. Most AlBooks are probably fine. But the ones with the problem may have been manufactured around the same time. That leads to them ending up in the same place together. One store might get a lot more duds than another.

We'll probably never know real stats. But we CAN surmise that the odds aren't fair and equal from batch to batch.