[smacintush]

Again, if the developers are going to need time to really harness the power of the PS3, and there are still certain software issues with them, and it's still so early in the next-gen DVD war…HOW IN THE WORLD can you justify paying for the PS3 THIS year?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

By the by, I haven't seen a single PS3 in my Christmas shopping today. Thinking possibly Colin lives in Nintendoton or something.

Well, it's Seattle. So it's either Microsoftdom or Nintendodom. : shrug : We'll see for sure what happens after Christmas. I'm thinking we'll see a large crash in demand.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Again, if the developers are going to need time to really harness the power of the PS3, and there are still certain software issues with them, and it's still so early in the next-gen DVD war…HOW IN THE WORLD can you justify paying for the PS3 THIS year?

Exactly. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. Some people thing the PS3 will succeed because of Blu Ray, others think Blu Ray will succeed because of the PS3. Different markets, different requirements, different marketing. the PS3 is an overpriced gaming console and an underpriced BluRay player.

It might have the specs on its side, but marketing this thing would be an utter nightmare imo. How do you convince a gamer to spend so much, just because it has a next-gen-movie-format tacked on, when movies usually aren’t on gamers' minds? How do you convince AV enthusiasts to spend less on first gen blu ray hardware, with less AV options than a full blu-ray system, with gaming tacked on, and when no industry standard has been determined as of yet ?

The PS3 as a system, is "inclomplete" to me as a consumer....and overpriced as well. why would i buy a Blu Ray player (or HD-DVD for that matter) when neither format has won(merits of one format over the other, such as support and storage capacity do not ensure it ssuccess) ? why would i buy a the PS3 for HD gaming over an XB360 ? cause of the promice of having preetier graphics ? ptffttt.... that aint gonna fly.

While i recognize that the HD era is upon us, i dont think it will sudenly become the dominant standard, after all, DVD has JUST become the dominant format. prices for HDTVs, even though they have crashed in recent months are still too high for your average consumer, the format war between HD-DVD and Blu Ray has just started, so why would i invest in either when i still havent exploited my DVD collection to it's fullest ? once standards are set and a format has won, thats when ii think it would be the right time to go HD. i dont want to have a loosing format sitting around, when i could have spend that money on winning content instead.

Ill just sit this war through and watch as the HD-DVD and BR-DVD fanboys fight it out to determine who will win the format war, and when one of them wins thats whn ill invest in a HD player.....

Cheers

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Well, it's Seattle. So it's either Microsoftdom or Nintendodom. : shrug : We'll see for sure what happens after Christmas. I'm thinking we'll see a large crash in demand.

It's all about content. we tend to forget that. if AAA titles come out, the system they are for will keep selling like crazy....

I think Nintendo has purposely decided to pase the release of their AAA titles to ensure consistent demand (unlike GCN). Im not sure what Sony is upto, but it seems as though resistance: fall of man, is the only must have game for that system.

PS>> having said that....even if Zelda wasnt released for the Wii, i would have picked one up this weeked cause SMB is out on the Virtual Console (not to mention Sonic 1 as a launch title on the VC as well).

[icruise]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Again, if the developers are going to need time to really harness the power of the PS3, and there are still certain software issues with them, and it's still so early in the next-gen DVD war…HOW IN THE WORLD can you justify paying for the PS3 THIS year?

While the software lineup of the PS3 is not particularly impressive (and this, along with the price is their biggest problem), the only reason to buy ANY system at launch is for its potential. Even if I didn't need to have one for my work, Sony has enough exclusive titles/developers to convince me to get one. And for people who don't have a next-gen system at all, the current lineup isn't that bad. The main reason that it's unimpressive is that most of the titles are already available for the Xbox 360.

The Xbox 360 is the much better choice right now if you want a wide variety of quality games to play *right now* but my hunch is that most Japanese developers, at least, will be going for the PS3 just as they did with the PS2, and that makes the PS3's future lineup look better than the Xbox's to me.

I suppose I could have waited until next year when the bigger titles are coming out (and I think that's exactly what most people will be doing) but I think there's very little chance of anything like a price drop in the next year and I can enjoy games like Resistance and Blu-ray movies in the meantime, so I personally don't see a reason to wait. Plus, I guess there is an attraction in being one of the first people to have one.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Well, it's Seattle. So it's either Microsoftdom or Nintendodom. : shrug : We'll see for sure what happens after Christmas. I'm thinking we'll see a large crash in demand.

Seriously, whose ass do you pull these predictions out of?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Im not sure what Sony is upto, but it seems as though resistance: fall of man, is the only must have game for that system.

Yeah, I definitely don't know what Sony is up to, considering that Resistance: Fall of Man won't even display properly from the PS3 on many TVs (like mine, and even some Sony TVs).

Insomniac says it's Sony's fault, and Sony doesn't deny that.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Yeah, I definitely don't know what Sony is up to, considering that Resistance: Fall of Man won't even display properly from the PS3 on many TVs (like mine, and even some Sony TVs).

That is killing you isn't it? I don't think you can mention PS3 without bringing that up each time.

Anyway, usually people with 6 year old hardware don't usually expect the latest and greatest to work the way it does for all the new guys.

[Chuckit]

Actually, I reckon most people do expect video games to work with 6-year-old TVs. It's not uncommon for people to keep TVs around that long.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

That is killing you isn't it? I don't think you can mention PS3 without bringing that up each time.

Yeah, I'm shocked at just how braindead Sony was on this one. I mean this is EXTREMELY basic common sense stuff.

Anyway, usually people with 6 year old hardware don't usually expect the latest and greatest to work the way it does for all the new guys.

Of course they do. I mean, it's not as if asking for 1080i support is an unusual request, especially when 1080i is THE current standard. Personally I think it's odd to expect someone to get a new TV every 5 years. This is especially true for companies trying to market their product to the masses.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Seriously, whose ass do you pull these predictions out of?

So far I've usually been right...

[Dark Helmet]

Review of the PS3 as a Blu-ray player.

Ultimate AV: PlayStation3 Blu-ray Disc Player

Sort version. It rocks.

IR hack for the PS3:
CE Pro � How to Control PlayStation 3 with IR

[icruise]

A couple of months ago when Frys.com (aka outpost.com) was having a big sale, I picked up a PS2 DVD remote control on a whim for $0.99. It's made by "Hip Gear" and is basically a piece of crap, but it comes with an IR receiver that plugs into a PS2 controller port. I also have a "Smart Joy" PS2-controller-to-USB adapter that's made for using PS2 controllers on a PC. I just tried plugging the IR receiver into the Smart Joy adapter, and I'll be damned if it didn't work!

Most of the buttons work as they should, and I was able to have complete control over a blu-ray movie as it played back. So it looks like there is no reason whatsoever that Sony or a third party couldn't come out with a device that gives you an IR remote on the PS3.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

So far I've usually been right...

I'd like to get a ruling on THAT one.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

I'd like to get a ruling on THAT one.

Called the DS, the PS3's disastrous launch and production issues, and the Wii's popularity. Does anyone seriously think the Wii will be Nintendo's last console now?

Not to mention there was that whole thread where I said Leopard would include something to compete with Vista's Avalon (fortunately there are no performance benchmarks on integrated graphics yet.)

On the other hand, where exactly have you proven me wrong?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

prices for HDTVs, even though they have crashed in recent months are still too high for your average consumer

No kidding. My father and I pooled our funds together to buy my mom an HDTV (which she's really been wanting) for Christmas this year. Even though I was paying only half, I was paying twice the price of a similar-size SDTV. And that was the best deal (as far as price vs. image quality goes) I could find anywhere.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Called the DS, the PS3's disastrous launch and production issues, and the Wii's popularity. Does anyone seriously think the Wii will be Nintendo's last console now?

Um everyone said the same same thing a year ago

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Um everyone said the same same thing a year ago

I think I'm just going to let this one go... Clearly SWG has a disconnect somewhere.

[Dark Helmet]

"But the big story here is the spectacular sound I've been hearing from the uncompressed PCM tracks on Sony's Blu-ray Discs, which I can extract thanks to the HDMI 1.1-equipped Anthem AVM 50 surround controller. Uncompressed PCM is so spectacular it makes lossy Dolby Digital and even DTS sound like MP3. This is not an exaggeration. The uncompressed PCM tracks on Monster House and Black Hawk Down both set new standards for both sound design and high fidelity in reproduction, and indeed the latter won a deserved Academy award for Best Sound."



Ultimate AV: PlayStation3 Blu-ray Disc Player

[Nirotu]

Im pretty amazed at the results. Looks like Wii is the most popular.

[Weezer]

local target had a few 60 gig PS3s when I was there yesterday (day before christmas) for what it's worth....

[icruise]

There may actually be a (comparative) flood of PS3s in retail in the next week or so as the people who bought them hoping to get a lot on eBay just before Christmas return them.

[Dark Helmet]

I got the GT5 demo for PS3 yesterday. I think we can put to rest "Is the PS3 more powerful than the XBOX 360?" bit. Because yes... it is.

Because even with this year in advance demo it is stunning. Better than any racing game on the 360 launch or current.

IGN agrees:
IGN: Gran Turismo HD Concept Preview

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Nirotu 

Im pretty amazed at the results. Looks like Wii is the most popular.

It's the new controller. The other two have nothing like it. And by the time they catch up...

[icruise]

It is visually impressive. In some places it looks photorealistic. And as a demo it's pretty good, but as a substitute for an actual game it falls very short. It's just you on one track racing against the timer.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I got the GT5 demo for PS3 yesterday. I think we can put to rest "Is the PS3 more powerful than the XBOX 360?" bit. Because yes... it is.

Because even with this year in advance demo it is stunning. Better than any racing game on the 360 launch or current.

IGN agrees:
IGN: Gran Turismo HD Concept Preview

I'm curious if you've played PGR on the 360? I haven't played either, but I've read a number of reviews of the GT HD demo that said it's not much better than PGR that came out over a year ago on the 360. Anyone else played both?

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

It's the new controller. The other two have nothing like it. And by the time they catch up...

I don't think they'll try to catch-up. I don't see every game system turning into something you have to swing the controller on. Too many people aren't interested in doing that all the time.

[icruise]

I personally hope they don't see it as a matter of having to "catch up." Nintendo isn't ahead of the other companies so much as it is off to the side. They've chosen not to compete in the same areas as Sony and Microsoft. It will take a year or two before we find out how successful the Wii experiment really has been (after all the point from Nintendo's perspective was to draw non-gamers into gaming).

But I do agree that I have very little desire to use Wii-like controls on my other systems. In fact, I think they are totally inappropriate for a number of the games on the Wii itself (Marvel Ultimate Alliance, for example).

[starman]

The Wii controller is cool, but I hope it NEVER becomes a standard controller.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by starman 

The Wii controller is cool, but I hope it NEVER becomes a standard controller.

I dunno. After playing longer playing sessions with Zelda, playing games with both hands together feels awkward. It would be nice to perhaps have an "advanced" version of the Wiimote better suited for more complicated games(more buttons), but having a separate piece for each hand works really well and is much more comfortable(for me at least).

[icruise]

Well, that's really a different issue, isn't it? I agree that having the controller separated can be comfortable in a way, but we're talking about the motion controls themselves and not the physical shape of the controller.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well, that's really a different issue, isn't it? I agree that having the controller separated can be comfortable in a way, but we're talking about the motion controls themselves and not the physical shape of the controller.

I totally agree that not every game needs motion or direct pointing functionality. I'm just saying that I wouldn't be surprised if we see more split controller/motion input designs in the next gen. There are a ton of ps2/gamecube generation games that could have benefited from a pointer or motion controls.

Patents will probably mean that it doesn't become the standard, but I can't see a reason why you wouldn't want the functionality there for games that could use it well(besides extra cost added to the controller). If you look at the ps3/360 controllers, most games don't use every button or both analogue sticks.

[Kenneth]

Well, at least the Sixaxis also features the motion sensing capability, but not as good as the Wii-mote.

[Dark Helmet]

Wow this is really cool:

http://www.qj.net/Face-detection-in-...g/49/aid/77298

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Kenneth 

Well, at least the Sixaxis also features the motion sensing capability, but not as good as the Wii-mote.

Technically, I think the motion sensing in the SIXAXIS is the equal of that in the Wiimote. The problem is that it isn't shaped in a way that is conducive to using it for motion sensing, and it doesn't incorporate the IR pointing functionality, which also limits how it can be used.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Wow this is really cool:

Face detection in the PS3's Portrait slideshow mode? - PS3 News, Wii News, Xbox 360 News, PSP News and more!

That's interesting. I was playing around with the slideshow functionality earlier and commented to my wife that it seemed to choose the best place for its "Ken Burns" effect every time. I think it must do some kind of face detection. That 3D photo mode is also very impressive.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I got the GT5 demo for PS3 yesterday. I think we can put to rest "Is the PS3 more powerful than the XBOX 360?" bit. Because yes... it is.

Because even with this year in advance demo it is stunning. Better than any racing game on the 360 launch or current.

IGN agrees:
IGN: Gran Turismo HD Concept Preview

a future PS3 game is better than any current Xbox360 game.. that doesn't mean that much.. we still haven't seen Forza Motorsport 2 or any 'future' 360 releases.. and haven't you played Gears of War? It makes every PS3 launch title look fugly!

[TETENAL]

The thing is that the PS3 has lots of room of improvement (still 5x improvement possible) while the XBOX 360 is pretty much maxed out already. We're not even talking about the Wii which is technically still a last generation system.

From a logical point of view the PS3 is the only choice to make.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

a future PS3 game is better than any current Xbox360 game.. that doesn't mean that much.. we still haven't seen Forza Motorsport 2 or any 'future' 360 releases.. and haven't you played Gears of War? It makes every PS3 launch title look fugly!

Actually, I disagree with that. I wasn't all that impressed with the graphics in Gears of War. It's too monochromatic. That's not to say that they're bad, of course. The graphics in Genji, on the other hand, were very impressive (even if the game is crap). Resistance is also quite good.

[Chuckit]

Barring very specialized optimizations, the PS3 isn't going to magically get faster. And if you're optimizing the **** out of things, I'm sure you can eke quite a bit more out of the 360 as well.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The thing is that the PS3 has lots of room of improvement (still 5x improvement possible) while the XBOX 360 is pretty much maxed out already. We're not even talking about the Wii which is technically still a last generation system.

From a logical point of view the PS3 is the only choice to make.

totally incorrect. many developers prefer the Xbox 360 and can draw better framerates from its hardware than ps3 (with the same levels of detail etc), because of the obscurity of PS3's architecture. it has a lot of theoretical power, not all of which is necessarily going to be realised - ever.
I'm not saying this to slam PS3, i think it's a great system, but there has been a ridiculous amount of hype about its 'unlimited power', where in reality it's neck-on-neck with the 360 in most regards.. game developers would know! it has more potential processing power but less available memory and bandwidth, which means in some areas it will excel, in others it will fall short. i think we will see more and more non-japanese developers switching to 360's camp in the next 12 months, as it takes so much extra work to get the same results from PS3's hardware

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Actually, I disagree with that. I wasn't all that impressed with the graphics in Gears of War. It's too monochromatic. That's not to say that they're bad, of course. The graphics in Genji, on the other hand, were very impressive (even if the game is crap). Resistance is also quite good.

Gears was always going for the 'dead city' look you call 'monochromatic'.. whether you like the washed-out color palette or not (i love it), it's the most technically impressive game on any system today, period. not many will argue about this from a graphics standpoint. i'm not arguing with your taste of course!! if you prefer Genji's look, enjoy!

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

i think we will see more and more non-japanese developers switching to 360's camp in the next 12 months, as it takes so much extra work to get the same results from PS3's hardware

The PS3 will outsell the XBOX. Developers would be stupid not to develop for the dominant system. And the PS3 might be more work to develop for than the XBOX, but that is because also more powerful. F1 and GT5 will be available for the Playstation only anyway, no matter what.

[pyrite]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The PS3 will outsell the XBOX. Developers would be stupid not to develop for the dominant system. And the PS3 might be more work to develop for than the XBOX, but that is because also more powerful. F1 and GT5 will be available for the Playstation only anyway, no matter what.

yeah a shame on both fronts, i've always been a big fan of both
what you say about PS3 dominating sales is only true to an extent, though... PS3 will always dominate Xbox in the Japanese market, but many analysts are predicting a turn dramatically towards Xbox in the American/European markets (which is why i specified non-japanese devs), which would push the games that are created for those markets on to the Xbox360 (if these predictions prove correct). Xbox 360 sales are very strong, and meeting MS's optimistic goals. PS3's sales are yet to be proven, obviously limited by supply at the moment, and the buying price is very high, and unlikely to drop any time soon, due to the current expense of manufacture. There are already some great Xbox 360 bundle packs that provide great out-of-the-box value.

check out this article, it's one of many...
Analyst Predicts Xbox 360 Domination Until 2009 - PlayStation 3 News - QJ.NET

[TETENAL]

In the USA the XBOX 360 might be on par. Microsoft is an American company after all so patriotism might come into play. In Europe I would be really surprised if the PS3 does not come out ahead. And I need F1 and GT5. Those are the "killer apps" for me.

Originally Posted by pyrite 

check out this article, it's one of many...
Analyst Predicts Xbox 360 Domination Until 2009 - PlayStation 3 News - QJ.NET

That article claims that the PS3 will sell best over the life-span of this console generation.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by pyrite 

a future PS3 game is better than any current Xbox360 game.. that doesn't mean that much.. we still haven't seen Forza Motorsport 2 or any 'future' 360 releases.. and haven't you played Gears of War? It makes every PS3 launch title look fugly!

The GT5 demo is out this week and isn't finished as the release is over a year away.

I have GOW and it does look amazing but keep in mind slow moving shooters aren't the same as fast moving racers.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Microsoft is an American company after all so patriotism might come into play.

Then that "patriotism" would be misplaced, as there are few other companies who have done so much to, and have been so successful at, stifling innovation and destroying other American (among others) companies.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The PS3 will outsell the XBOX.

Yeah, underwhelming graphics, lack of any distinguishing features and an exorbitant price tag win out every time.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Yeah, underwhelming graphics, lack of any distinguishing features and an exorbitant price tag win out every time.

Not to mention... absolutely no distinguishing feature to gaming. Live wasnt a big deal last gen, but going into this gen, it's Microft's ace up it's sleve. Nintendo has an awesome controller. And Sony has.... the same old stuff that the other 2 have anyway with better specs.

My outlook fo Sony would have been better if they could actually manufacture these things, but given their incompetent launch, they have neither supply nor demand on their side.

Early numbers indicate that XB360 at 7mil (global), PS3 at 1mil(global), and the Wii at 2mil(global).

That means....Xbox360 sold 500k per month, PS3 at 1 mil per month, and Nintendo at 2 mil per month. All numbers are really rough estimates, so they arent completely accurate, i admit. but thats ROUGHLY how it stands at the end of 2006.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

The thing is that the PS3 has lots of room of improvement (still 5x improvement possible) while the XBOX 360 is pretty much maxed out already. We're not even talking about the Wii which is technically still a last generation system.

From a logical point of view the PS3 is the only choice to make.

And where did you get these pearls of wisdom? How do you know the PS3 has "5x improvement possible" and the Xbox 360 is "pretty much maxed out already"? Sounds fanboyish to me....

Granted, developers have not tapped the potential of the PS3 yet, but to say there is 5x improvement possible is a stretch. And there is nothing to support your contention that the XBox 360 is maxed out already. Both systems have potential to get better, but it's up to the developers to do that, not the systems themselves.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Not to mention... absolutely no distinguishing feature to gaming. Live wasnt a big deal last gen, but going into this gen, it's Microft's ace up it's sleve. Nintendo has an awesome controller. And Sony has.... the same old stuff that the other 2 have anyway with better specs.

My outlook fo Sony would have been better if they could actually manufacture these things, but given their incompetent launch, they have neither supply nor demand on their side.

Early numbers indicate that XB360 at 7mil (global), PS3 at 1mil(global), and the Wii at 2mil(global).

That means....Xbox360 sold 500k per month, PS3 at 1 mil per month, and Nintendo at 2 mil per month. All numbers are really rough estimates, so they arent completely accurate, i admit. but thats ROUGHLY how it stands at the end of 2006.

To be fair, I believe that the 360 sold about 3 million in the US and Europe by the end of 2006. That's very close to 3 million a month. Averaging out numbers from a Christmas launch greatly skews the numbers. We'll see how well they are doing in 6 months to a year.

Again I say: The PS3 has one disadvantage that is also the most significant disadvantage it could have…price. MS can and will always be cheaper that the PS3 will ever be. The Wii is the only REAL unknown I see. They have price and momentum on their side for now at least.