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The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 12:54 PM

Holy crap.

The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 01:01 PM

The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 01:04 PM

The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 01:05 PM

akent35 · Jul 11, 2014, 01:41 PM

I'm shocked, as I thought he STILL hated Dan Gilbert. Oh well, I guess both the lure of being near home, and of course $$$$$$$$, was too much!

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 11, 2014, 02:36 PM

Fantastic result. Irving, Wiggins, LeBron, and very likely Love or another great front court player? What a team.

The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 02:41 PM

I hear Love's name being thrown around. Obviously Minnesota has to be willing to trade him, but it feels plausible*
*my finger on the pulse of the NBA is near nonexistent

Edit: You mentioned Love. D'oh

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 11, 2014, 03:42 PM

Well he's got one year left on his contract and he won't resign with Minny. They're going to trade him....just depends on the offer. Cleveland has some solid pieces....

akent35 · Jul 11, 2014, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Well he's got one year left on his contract and he won't resign with Minny. They're going to trade him....just depends on the offer. Cleveland has some solid pieces....

Yeah, they sure are looking good! And, if they can land Kevin Love, watch out!

The Final Dakar · Jul 11, 2014, 04:42 PM

Cleveland Cavaliers learned of LeBron James' decision online - ESPN

That's kind of interesting. They still need to negotiate.

Stogieman · Jul 11, 2014, 07:17 PM

The Final Dakar · Jul 14, 2014, 09:22 AM

Ha, well Cavs fans can't gloat too much, LeBron took a two-year deal. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Chongo · Jul 14, 2014, 10:01 AM

Le Who? At least it wasn't as bad as it was the last time. It was ridiculous when Jordan came out of "retirement."

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 15, 2014, 11:34 AM

Huh? Which retirement? And what does Jordan's retirement(s) have to do with a free agent choosing where he would like to play next?

And it's LeBron. You know, the best basketball player in the world? for the last half-decade or so?

Chongo · Jul 15, 2014, 12:30 PM

I refer to the media frenzy that occurred when Jordan announced he was coming out of "retirement" after his gambling came to light. The NBA did not want Jordan to be their Pete Rose so he "retired" for a few years.

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 15, 2014, 01:56 PM

I think that is one conspiracy-theorist version of Jordan's first retirement. The other version, of course, being the generally accepted one where he was deeply affected when his father was tragically murdered.

When arguably the greatest basketball player ever retires right in his prime, and then decides to return a couple years later...well that sounds like a legit media frenzy to me.

The Final Dakar · Jul 15, 2014, 02:06 PM

Chongo tends to believe a lot of conspiracy theories. And when he claims he doesn't he is still fond of posting stuff from Alex Jones and Coast to Coast.

Chongo · Jul 21, 2014, 12:46 PM

Greatest player? No. Great player, yes. It took MJ seven seasons to win his first title, Kareem did it in two. MJ has six rings, Bill Russell has eleven. Did he score 100 points in a game and have rules created or changed because of his play? No. In fact, MJ was allowed to palm the ball and shuffle his feet when making moves to the basket.

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 21, 2014, 01:22 PM

Great players all, but if Wilt scoring 100 points during essentially an amateur-league free-for-all game in 1962 is your benchmark for greatest player ever, then I respectfully suggest that you don't know what you're talking about. Despite his gaudy numbers, Wilt didn't do a whole lot of actual best-player-ever-esque winning during his career.

There are two or three great candidates, but I will repeat my opinion - shared by many basketball fans - that Jordan is the greatest NBA player ever.

Jawbone54 · Jul 22, 2014, 11:21 AM

I was out of town when this happened, so I'm a little late to the party. I'm kind of glad he's going back, as he caused the most despicable type of fans to float to the surface. But after watching the Finals this year, he nearly had the same look on his face as he did in the 2010 Conference Finals. It's a surprise, but not that big of one.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

Ha, well Cavs fans can't gloat too much, LeBron took a two-year deal. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Apparently the two-year deal is to take advantage of what could be a better CBA in 2016/17/whatever.

The Final Dakar · Jul 22, 2014, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Apparently the two-year deal is to take advantage of what could be a better CBA in 2016/17/whatever.

I did hear that. I just wonder what will happen if the Cavs aren't demonstrably better by then.

Shaddim · Jul 22, 2014, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Greatest player? No. Great player, yes. It took MJ seven seasons to win his first title, Kareem did it in two. MJ has six rings, Bill Russell has eleven. Did he score 100 points in a game and have rules created or changed because of his play? No. In fact, MJ was allowed to palm the ball and shuffle his feet when making moves to the basket.

You can't be serious? By that metric, Steve Nash might be the greatest player, because he has the highest lifetime free throw percentage. Weighing all facets of the game, no one was better than Jordan (with Magic a fairly close second).

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 22, 2014, 12:07 PM

I might slot Kareem or Russell instead of Magic, but all of them are deserving. Completely agree that using arbitrary numbers does not make a lot of sense.

Jawbone54 · Jul 22, 2014, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chongo

Greatest player? No. Great player, yes. It took MJ seven seasons to win his first title, Kareem did it in two. MJ has six rings, Bill Russell has eleven. Did he score 100 points in a game and have rules created or changed because of his play? No. In fact, MJ was allowed to palm the ball and shuffle his feet when making moves to the basket.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton

Great players all, but if Wilt scoring 100 points during essentially an amateur-league free-for-all game in 1962 is your benchmark for greatest player ever, then I respectfully suggest that you don't know what you're talking about. Despite his gaudy numbers, Wilt didn't do a whole lot of actual best-player-ever-esque winning during his career.

There are two or three great candidates, but I will repeat my opinion - shared by many basketball fans - that Jordan is the greatest NBA player ever.

Who mentioned Wilt? I see MJ, Kareem, and Russell in his post, but no Wilt.

Anyways, I think Bill Simmons' top 8 in his pyramid is probably accurate, with Chamberlain's place being the most suspect. No player in history was granted as much of an advantage because of their sheer size, and I'm still not sure whether or not to hold that against him. Russell and Kareem's skills would have translated to the modern game. I think Chamberlain would wind up being along the level of David Robinson — a great player, but not a legend.

Simmon's list:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Chamberlain
7. Duncan
8. Kobe

We probably shouldn't determine LeBron's place on that list until he stops playing. Just don't tell ESPN that.

Jawbone54 · Jul 22, 2014, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I did hear that. I just wonder what will happen if the Cavs aren't demonstrably better by then.

We already know.

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 22, 2014, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Who mentioned Wilt? I see MJ, Kareem, and Russell in his post, but no Wilt.

Not aware of the symbology of 100 points in a game, huh? Let us pause while I silently judge you.

Jawbone54 · Jul 22, 2014, 12:14 PM

Dear Lord, how did I miss that?

Then yeah, I'm on your side side. Gimme a high-five.

The Final Dakar · Jul 22, 2014, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

We already know.

Ah, but he will have to abandon this calculated fix of his image. How much losing will he tolerate to look the hero?

ShortcutToMoncton · Jul 23, 2014, 09:15 AM

I think if he loves Cleveland - and clearly both he and his wife love Cleveland/home - then the Cavs have completely lucked out.

Now, what to do. Love is a very very good player, but he's not a good defender (other than rebounder) and likely does not have the physical tools to become one. He turns 26 this year so if they get him he might be contractually locked up throughout his prime.

But Minny is demanding equal value for him, and that makes zero sense - they shouldn't have full leverage here, but they're acting like they do. Yes, in a vacuum you'd trade for equal value; but Minny screwed up and signed Love to a shorter contract and then made a number of terrible personnel decisions and put a treadmill team around him (not good enough for playoffs; not bad enough to draft a superstar); you might get a California boy to stay there if you're winning, but they weren't, and it's now public knowledge that Love is going to opt out after this season and become a free agent.

So Minny is being smart and trying to gamble that a team will get desperate and open the bank to get him for this season. It may very well happen, but I think it shouldn't.

abbaZaba · Jul 23, 2014, 11:16 AM

I personally think the Cavs should hold on to Wiggins. Give some time for Irving/Wiggins/James to gel before looking at Love after he opts out. Heck, there could be another superstar wanting to join them after this season. You are correct in pointing out the lack of defense on Love's part. In basketball, you can't just aim for 130 points a game and expect to win series in the playoffs.