[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

Really? Never understood what people saw in Firefly.

My favorite of the follow on series was Enterprise. At least it had somewhat real people with feelings and problems, instead of perfect androids with no hair.

Ok, First: Firefly is twice the show that all the Star Treks combined could be. Yes, ALL of them. I grew up loving Star Trek, but once I grew up, I was ready for actual characters and much, much better writing. Firefly is a tightly written exploration of freedom using a much more interesting cast than any let's-get-all-the-requisite-ethnic-groups-represented Trek ensemble. Plus, it's funny as all hell.

Second: Enterprise sucked. Its characters were no more fleshed out or developed than the previous two stinker spin-off series--they had "feelings and problems," but they were all as horridly dull and contrived as Enterprise's cast. Enterprise was a wasted opportunity to do something new and vital with the Trek property, but instead they gave the ship all the same capabilities as any other Enterprise or Voyager or USS Whatever--that it logically shouldn't have had--and then fed the audience the same crappy time-travel-so-nothing-has-to-make-sense episodes. Waste of a show.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

They say they are. It sounds like it is going to be what Enterprise was SUPPOSED to be. Which was to fill in the gaps of the past in an old school sort of way.

Instead Enterprise went for a ship which looked like it was made with todays technology with a star trek foundation to it. Didn't work out so well as it just looked bland. Not to mention they ****ed up the continuity big time and did the same bag of time travel tricks as all treks have.

What they should have done is made it more retro and 70's like they SOMETIMES did with T'Pal's outfits.

So hopefully in this new trek some of the uniforms are miniskirts and the doors are big and red and boxy.

I still wish they had taken a couple more years break though.

Thank you, someone else sees this.

Oh, and why the hell are they building the ship on Earth?!? That screams to me that Abrams has little to no respect for the expectations of the fan base. The thing is like what, 300 meters long? It had to be built in space. Duh. Oh well, all I have to say about this latest prequel melarchy is that you'd think they'd have learned their lesson after Enterprise (or after Star Wars I through III for that matter). JJ "I'm Lost" Abrams can't possibly screw up the continuity of the Star Trek universe any worse than the nitwits who took over for Roddenberry have.

Trek is dead. This movie's likely to be about as faithful to Gene's vision as that Starsky and Hutch remake a couple years back.

But who knows, look at what happened to Battlestar Galactica. Maybe we'll actually get something better out of the deal.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Ok, First: Firefly is twice the show that all the Star Treks combined could be. Yes, ALL of them. I grew up loving Star Trek, but once I grew up, I was ready for actual characters and much, much better writing. Firefly is a tightly written exploration of freedom using a much more interesting cast than any let's-get-all-the-requisite-ethnic-groups-represented Trek ensemble. Plus, it's funny as all hell.

As long as we're disagreeing: Firefly was a half-assed "high concept" show which features cardboard cutout characters spouting expository crap and half-assed truisms in place of real dialog or character development, and it encapsulated everything wrong with much sci-fi: archetype in place of character, exposition in place of dialog, melodrama in place of drama.

Second: Enterprise sucked. Its characters were no more fleshed out or developed than the previous two stinker spin-off series--they had "feelings and problems," but they were all as horridly dull and contrived as Enterprise's cast. Enterprise was a wasted opportunity to do something new and vital with the Trek property, but instead they gave the ship all the same capabilities as any other Enterprise or Voyager or USS Whatever--that it logically shouldn't have had--and then fed the audience the same crappy time-travel-so-nothing-has-to-make-sense episodes. Waste of a show.

The characters on Enterprise were, at least, recognizably human, as opposed to the walking audioanimatrons which have populated everything since the original series. At least they got angry, or sad, or pissed off, and even cracked a joke or two. That alone was worth the price of admission.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

. . . Abrams has little to no respect for the expectations of the fan base.

The fan base is exactly what killed Star Trek. Any attempt to do something new or original is met with howls of rage from people who have the entire canon timeline memorized, or who can't believe that a character would use the Mark 7 phaser on Stardate 4345.7 when it clearly states in scene four of episode six of season seven that the Mark 7 phaser didn't come out until Stardate 4345.8!

The best thing for the franchise would be to find some good writers, and a good director, who have nothing to do with the Star Trek world, and have them make a good movie first, and a good Star Trek movie second. Hold the series hostage to the obsessive needs of the fans gives us mediocre crap. If the fans are more worried about keeping the continuity sacred than having good movies, they should stop pretending and join a real cult.

[red rocket]

I suppose I'm in the minority amongst Trekkies, but I always thought TOS was a POS.

TNG was okay after the first few episodes, and got consistently better right up to the end.

DS9 was great from Season Four onward.

The last two seasons of Voyager were cool as well, even though the series in general sucked until they got Seven in.

Enterprise was pitiful, in my opinion.

Really don't see the appeal of this film, at all.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Don Pickett 

As long as we're disagreeing: Firefly was a half-assed "high concept" show which features cardboard cutout characters spouting expository crap and half-assed truisms in place of real dialog or character development, and it encapsulated everything wrong with much sci-fi: archetype in place of character, exposition in place of dialog, melodrama in place of drama.

Clearly every has an opinion and sees things differently, buy wow I disagree with you. A lot.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

Clearly every has an opinion and sees things differently, buy wow I disagree with you. A lot.

That's why I don't take any of this too seriously: it's just all our opinions.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by Oneota 

Is it just me, or is the "NCC-1701" HUGE in that screenshot above? Like, waaay too big?

The Warp Nacelles are a little too close but I don't think they are actually joined to the body... note the one on the right is a little closer than the one on the left.

[JKT]

So we have JFK, John Glenn, the Eagle landing, and one small step/one giant leap... yes, that's right, only the Americans ever did anything of any significance in space... sigh.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by vmarks 

So, who did they cast as Melvar?

My guess is someone from this thread.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

Clearly every has an opinion and sees things differently, buy wow I disagree with you. A lot.

Yeah, it's like he's talking about a whole other show or something. Those are some of the richest characters in TV.

My bet is that he never really watched it. I know when I first saw it for a second on Fox, I formed a snap judgement, but fortunately I rediscovered it before the movie came out.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by JKT 

So we have JFK, John Glenn, the Eagle landing, and one small step/one giant leap... yes, that's right, only the Americans ever did anything of any significance in space... sigh.

What were you expecting? Sputnik?

[Dakar the Fourth]

If only the Russians had gotten Lance Bass in space.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams 

What were you expecting? Sputnik?

Would it have hurt to use the Sputnik signal at any point? Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of, oooh, maybe the first man in space, or perhaps that this kind of lazy, bombastic bigotry and pseudo-nationalism was the antithesis of Rodenberry's personal views and vision of Star Trek...

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by JKT 

Would it have hurt to use the Sputnik signal at any point? Personally, I was thinking more along the lines of, oooh, maybe the first man in space, or perhaps that this kind of lazy, bombastic bigotry and pseudo-nationalism was the antithesis of Rodenberry's personal views and vision of Star Trek...

"Antithesis"? I love it when you Brits use big words... Just sit back and think of that with an English accent!

Back on point - first, it's a movie... that *is* deep... for a mainstream movie. At least as deep as you can possibly get with a mainstream movie. Also they're building it in San Fransisco, the Enterprise. Last Roddenberry was a quirky fellow... no telling what he'd want.

[OwlBoy]

Hmm, Yahoo don't know how to encode videos…



The larger video is smaller in file-size…

-Owl

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by JKT 

So we have JFK, John Glenn, the Eagle landing, and one small step/one giant leap... yes, that's right, only the Americans ever did anything of any significance in space... sigh.

We have Star Trek and Star Wars, that's the greatest achievements in space evar in my opinion. This movie looks awesome, I'm waiting in line for this one. Even if it's Christmas.

[starman]

Originally Posted by JKT 

So we have JFK, John Glenn, the Eagle landing, and one small step/one giant leap... yes, that's right, only the Americans ever did anything of any significance in space... sigh.

Sorry if I left my Chinese, Russian, and all other Universal Translators at home

[red rocket]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams

"Antithesis"? I love it when you Brits use big words... Just sit back and think of that with an English accent!

, Americans.

There is no ‘English accent’ for ‘antithesis’, its pronounced ān-tĭth'ĭ-sĭs the English speaking world over.

Unless you say ‘ān'tī-thē'sĭs’, in which case, , cute but wrong.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

I suppose I'm in the minority amongst Trekkies, but I always thought TOS was a POS.

No. Well, yes and no. It was campy, but great and unashamedly clichéed.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

TNG was okay after the first few episodes, and got consistently better right up to the end.

For the time, yes. In retrospect - no. (Exception: a couple of double-episodes that did truly rock.) Much of it was just absolutely atrocious.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

DS9 was great from Season Four onward.

True.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

The last two seasons of Voyager were cool as well, even though the series in general sucked until they got Seven in.

True.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Enterprise was pitiful, in my opinion.

So very true.

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Really don't see the appeal of this film, at all.

I'll wait.

[ghporter]

TOS was NOT clichéd. The clichés came from playing off of TOS episodes. We're talking about science fiction on TV from 1966-68, a time when "Lost in Space" was considered "real science fiction" by CBS. The series rocked in its first AND second release. We've become spoiled by George Lucas demanding "good" special effects in Star Wars. Watch the remastered TOS episodes with an open mind, and you may see them differently. Those shows led the way, and others turned their innovative concepts into clichés.

TNG started out a bit shaky, but turned into a solid series, with the same concept of using SF to frame current day issues in a context that let writers play with them. Some episodes were crap, but most were good to very good. I never got much into either Voyager or DS9 because of work and school schedules, but most of the episodes I've seen in syndication have been pretty interesting, though not what I'd call groundbreaking.

And I unashamedly LIKE Enterprise. Not Berman and Braga's ideas of hosing up the whole canon at the end, nor their whole season Xindi side trip, but most of the series was both interesting and entertaining. They didn't pay enough attention to how they got from those early days to Kirk's period, but they hit on a lot of the basics, and I found the series highly enjoyable. And of course there's Jolene Blalock...

[starman]

TNG suffered from "New Series Syndrome" (hey, a Star Trek cliché) and the 1988 writer's strike. Half way through season 2, it started to rock.

[PaperNotes]

I like that movie with the Borg. It looks much better than this silliness about a ship being made in a factory. Is it subtitled "The Search for Flight Crew"?

[starman]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

I like that movie with the Borg. It looks much better than this silliness about a ship being made in a factory. Is it subtitled "The Search for Flight Crew"?

Is THAT what you got from the teaser?

[PaperNotes]

I also got that it is by that guy who made Lost and thinks he's Einstein for ripping off Survivor and Battle Royale.

( )

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

TOS was NOT clichéd. The clichés came from playing off of TOS episodes.

I guess that's why it's "unashamedly clichéed", as I put it - it wasn't cliché (yet) at the time.

I love TOS.

[ghporter]

Sorry if I sounded strident. I get sensitive about this. For example, some people feel it necessary to make fun of things that were made as well as humanly possible when they were made. Would "The Maltese Falcon" be better in Technicolor? Would "Gone With The Wind" be better in THX and IMAX? Shatner has said publicly that they made the whole TOS on what would be the catering budget for a 60 minute show today-and they were able to do a lot of things that had never been done on TV before. The first interracial kiss and the first cuss word on prime time, for example. Founding the clichés, chiseling them out of the very bedrock of television, Gene made one helluva great piece of television. And got it ON THE AIR! (That's the most amazing part, I think.) Star Trek also managed to cause the Nielsen people to actually THINK about the information they were providing advertisers and networks. Using today's formulas, TOS would STILL be on the air; they didn't figure out that you could break things out by audience demographics until the fanbase arose and overwhelmed NBC and Polaroid (which owned NBC at the time) with demands for a third season.

Kids today don't know how good that stuff looked on a 19" brand new Zenith color TV. They don't appreciate Babylon 5's effects either-though their effects people basically invented the render farm. History is lost on 'em. Their loss too.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Here is a shot of the new enterprise hallway. Guess it isn't too retro after all

[Dakar the Fourth]

I can understand toning down and or changing the colors, adding some more detail, but not a complete redesign.

They are keeping the old unis, right?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I can understand toning down and or changing the colors, adding some more detail, but not a complete redesign.

They are keeping the old unis, right?

But which design should they base it on? The 70's trek and Enterprise 1701 or NX enterprise?

[Dakar the Fourth]

I think you go 70s and polish it up a little. A little NXish'd be okay, I guess.

I wonder what other concepts they worked up.

[starman]

I look at it like this: NBC only had so much money to work with at the time, and it was made in the SIXTIES.

Think of it like this: let's say you have nothing but a box of crayons to work with. You do your best with it. 40 years later you have an ART TEAM with computers and green screens and there's so much more out there that's been influential like Syd Mead and Ralph McQuarrie and all these people and when you make a prequel, HOW FRIGGIN' STUPID is old 60's-era sets and uniforms going to look?

[Dakar the Fourth]

I think you update the sets.

As for the old unis, I think they look fine. TMP unis, now they were a travesty.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

HOW FRIGGIN' STUPID is old 60's-era sets and uniforms going to look?

I think they should at least keep the bright reds and other colour from the sets. The uniforms can also look old-school and cool as they did with T'Pols outfits.

[ghporter]

The uniforms need to pay some sort of attention to the costumes in the two pilot episodes, "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

The movie supposedly happens some time between "The Cage" and "No Man," so that's where the uniforms should be.


I'm not sure whether I like the corridor or not-it's awfully close to the shape of the corridors in the Enterprise-A. On the other hand, there were plenty of "A-frame" elements in the TOS corridor sets, so maybe it'll look "right."

analogue, how long did you have to watch "Camera 3" before you saw that? All I ever see is noise.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Did the starship designers find a sale on spotlights or do they not have floodlights in the future?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Did the starship designers find a sale on spotlights or do they not have floodlights in the future?

Maybe the shot is supposed to represent "emergency" lighting? Although it's still an inefficient way to light a corridor in emergency conditions.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

, Americans.

There is no ‘English accent’ for ‘antithesis’, its pronounced ān-tĭth'ĭ-sĭs the English speaking world over.

Unless you say ‘ān'tī-thē'sĭs’, in which case, , cute but wrong.

You've obviously never made it down "South". We pronounce *every* word wrong - with a slurish intensity that makes most Brits want to puke their mental dictionaries out.

Example - Forest Gump:
- Run Forest run! It's the Antithesis!!!
- The antithesis is like a box of chocolates... you never know how it's gunna be pronounced!
- Roddenberry once said that time is the antithesis in which we burn... and that's all I got to say about that...

[IceEnclosure]

Star Trek sucks so bad. Hundreds(thousands?) of cheesy episodes spanning decades. The originals were the only good ones, and that was only because it was new, not re-hashed over and over.

Starman, you really made me laugh, I thought you were kidding. "2500 Trekkies got goose bumps pal" lol

[LegendaryPinkOx]

Hello, my name is the Legendary Pink Ox, and I liked Deep Space Nine. It took awhile to pick up, but I liked it dammit!

[driven]

Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams 

You've obviously never made it down "South". We pronounce *every* word wrong - with a slurish intensity that makes most Brits want to puke their mental dictionaries out.

Example - Forest Gump:
- Run Forest run! It's the Antithesis!!!
- The antithesis is like a box of chocolates... you never know how it's gunna be pronounced!
- Roddenberry once said that time is the antithesis in which we burn... and that's all I got to say about that...

I beg to differ. The south is the only part of the world where they have perfected the English Language.

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The uniforms need to pay some sort of attention to the costumes in the two pilot episodes, "The Cage" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before".

The movie supposedly happens some time between "The Cage" and "No Man," so that's where the uniforms should be.

I'm not sure they need to. They were, for all intents and purposes, rough drafts. Just like Spock doesn't necessarily need to look all weird like he did in those first two.

[starman]

Remember how Spock used to yell all the time? Rough drafts, people.

[driven]

I kind of liked the yelling spock. :-)

Also: Remember whenever there was any sign of danger, Kirk would grab the chick closest to him and hug her? Yeah .... they need to bring that back.

[paul w]

So long as we're all in agreement that was perhaps the most useless teaser trailer in the history of cinema. What did it show that would give me any desire to see the film? The screen could've been black with Nimoy speaking and it would have been as effective.

Hey maybe they'll shoot the thing in handheld video...

[driven]

Clovertrek ....

[starman]

Originally Posted by paul w 

So long as we're all in agreement that was perhaps the most useless teaser trailer in the history of cinema. What did it show that would give me any desire to see the film? The screen could've been black with Nimoy speaking and it would have been as effective.

Hey maybe they'll shoot the thing in handheld video...

For most people, the trailer means nothing. For huge fans like me, I absolutely love it. The teaser did its job.

[Doofy]

singing (with arm pumping like a lumberjack at a howdown)/

Sisko, Sisko
because Picard's a bit French and Janeway's a girl

la la la la la <-- haven't written the verses yet.

/singing

[Dakar the Fourth]

Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth 

I'm not sure they need to. They were, for all intents and purposes, rough drafts. Just like Spock doesn't necessarily need to look all weird like he did in those first two.

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...hasgone005.jpg

Originally Posted by starman 

Remember how Spock used to yell all the time? Rough drafts, people.

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...thecage098.jpg

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

singing (with arm pumping like a lumberjack at a howdown)/

Sisko, Sisko
because Picard's a bit French and Janeway's a girl

la la la la la <-- haven't written the verses yet.

/singing

I kinda thought Janeway was sort of hot... Maybe it's the whole redhead thing, or Kate Mulgrew's husky little voice.... Ok, that's a shameful sort of admission here, but there it is.

Of course with Nana Visitor on DS9, I sometimes had trouble paying attention to the story lines...