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SierraDragon · Oct 9, 2012, 08:34 AM

I think ceding a market space (MPs) that you are a leading player in would simply be lazy and dumb.

Apple's future success hinges on the success of its ecosystem, and to intentionally chop off the top of the food chain would have significant ecosystemic ramifications deeper than any shallow financial-only cost-benefit analysis might indicate.

-Allen

JRobinson · Oct 9, 2012, 08:51 PM

I got tired of waiting for the new iMac, so yesterday I bought the new 15 inch MacBook Pro (non-Retina) to replace my early 2009 model iMac. What an improvement!

SierraDragon · Oct 10, 2012, 07:32 AM

Yup. Just add a NEC, Eizo or Viewsonic external display when in "desktop" location and you have a great two-display setup, very productive.

Mine is a Viewsonic which extends high enough (~10" or 26 cm) that the 17" MBP display can sit directly under the external display. With the anti-glare on both displays IMO it is way preferable to an iMac.

P.S. If you did not get an SSD with that MBP exchange it.

-Allen

JRobinson · Oct 10, 2012, 10:36 AM

I actually bought a 24-inch Apple Cinema display a year ago from Craigslist. I was using it as a second monitor for my iMac, but as of last night I have been using it as the main monitor for my new MacBook Pro. Also, i found my old laptop stand that I used for my old 2008 MacBook Pro back in the day and now I'm using it for my new 2012 MacBook Pro. I really wanted an iMac, but the fact that it hasn't been updated since spring of 2011 bothers me.

JRobinson · Oct 10, 2012, 12:14 PM

Is it possible to upgrade to an SSD a couple of years down the line when the prices are cheaper? Also, would it be possible to replace the optical drive with an SSD, like with previous MBPs?

P · Oct 11, 2012, 02:05 AM

You can replace the optical drive with an SSD, yes, but don't count on them getting significantly cheaper - or rather, they might get bigger at current prices, but at the cost of less longevity. PRices have come down significantly in the last year (you can now buy a 240 gig drive for 25% less than what a 120 gig drive cost 18 months ago).

Replacing the HDD with an SSD is not a good idea because of the integrated heat sensor thing (that fan will run at max if it doesn't detect a sensor, which it won't do if the original drive is not present). Using the Apple-provided SSD space is tricky, because Apple doesn't ship the cable required, and the connector for it is hidden on the back of the motherboard which means that you have to disassemble the entire computer to get to it.

FireWire · Oct 13, 2012, 12:53 AM

Originally Posted by P

Replacing the HDD with an SSD is not a good idea because of the integrated heat sensor thing (that fan will run at max if it doesn't detect a sensor, which it won't do if the original drive is not present).

Wasn't there a hack to short the cable or something? Or is it possible to use a software like smcFanControl to limit the speed of the fan?

P · Oct 13, 2012, 02:52 AM

There are different hacks depending on the exact age of the machine. First there was a loose sensor, then there was an integrated sensor but an extra cable, and now there is an integrated sensor which uses the some of the regular SATA pins for signalling. For the one in the middle, you could either switch to an HDD of the same brand or use an adapter or extra cable that plugged in to that extra cable. If you short it, that will make the fans run at minimum speed always, IIRC. For the current one, there are no extra cables to play with. You need a drive with a special firmware, or the fan goes to max.
smcFanControl is for setting the minimum speed of the fans, if you think your computer is running too hot for comfort - some MBPs get very hot underneath because of Apple's insistence on low noise, and it can also be used to complement the case where you short out the cable. What will happen if you miss a heat sensor is that the fan will run at max. Unless the app has changed, smcFanControl does not change the max speed.

SierraDragon · Oct 13, 2012, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by JRobinson

Is it possible to upgrade to an SSD a couple of years down the line when the prices are cheaper? Also, would it be possible to replace the optical drive with an SSD, like with previous MBPs?

Unless one is a true hardware expert by far the best way to put an SSD in a MBP is to buy it that way from Apple, and Apple makes it inexpensive to do so today. Going a couple of years with a lame notebook HDD instead of an SSD IMO is a poor choice.

To check retrofit choices on any specific box talk with OWC presales tech support at http://eshop.macsales.com/

-Allen

Eug · Oct 13, 2012, 08:54 AM

It's extremely easy to replace the hard drive with an SSD in a recent 13" or 15" (non-Retina) MacBook Pro. Aside from memory upgrades, it's basically the easiest upgrade one can do for a MacBook Pro. It's a heluvalot cheaper to do it yourself than pay Apple for it, at least if you want 256 GB. Heck, it's even cheaper to pay a service centre to do it than to get it from Apple, since Apple charges $400 for a modern 256 GB drive, when they normally go for less than $200. Plus when you do it this way, you get the HD back as well, which you can use as a backup drive, with the purchase of a $20 USB 3 case.

SierraDragon · Oct 13, 2012, 09:34 AM

Good to know. Is it just the rMBPs that add complexity?

-Allen

reader50 · Oct 13, 2012, 09:46 AM

The retina MBPs (and MB Airs) use custom SSD PCB sticks instead of standard 2.5" SATA drive bays. The MBA rev 1 and 2 use one stick design, the MBA rev3 and rMBP use a 2nd stick design. I hope standardization takes hold, unlike the rechargeable batteries on cordless tools.

saysaywatson · Oct 14, 2012, 04:47 AM

Buy a good used on on eBay and flip it whenever there is some solid news?

Eug · Oct 14, 2012, 07:13 AM

Chinese spy photo for new iMac internals

Who knows, maybe it will show up at the iPad mini event too?

The claim is that it will be thinner, tapered, with glued on glass, and it will still have the 21" and 27" sizes but still with a chin. If so, I'm tempted to get a 21", since I prefer its ergonomics. I guess it depends on the rest of the specs.

I just don't get the fascination with uber-thinness on an iMac. Laptop, yes, but I don't really care much on a desktop, esp. if the middle of the machine is fat. If the whole thing was uber thin, that'd be more interesting. However, what I'd prefer is that they'd get rid of that chin, and add in the most important feature that has been completely missing, and that is height adjustment.

Thorzdad · Oct 14, 2012, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

However, what I'd prefer is that they'd get rid of that chin, and add in the most important feature that has been completely missing, and that is height adjustment.

Without that chin, where would one hang the umpteen postit notes?

Agree about the height adjustment. Not everyone has the luxury of sitting in the ideal ergonomic workplace.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 14, 2012, 08:18 AM

I think the chin also serves a branding function. Without it, how can you tell its an Apple from the front?

Also, that spy pic looks to have a 2.5" HDD in it which is slightly odd.

reader50 · Oct 14, 2012, 09:44 AM

A standard 2.5" bay for SSD, or (BTO option) 1 TB HD? If they do plan to slim the case further, a 3.5" bay is one of the sticking points.

mattyb · Oct 14, 2012, 11:06 AM

For waiting this long Tim, I want an iPad Mini thrown in when I buy a new iMac.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 14, 2012, 11:25 AM

The 2.5" in the pic looks more like an HDD than an SSD to me.

reader50 · Oct 14, 2012, 01:08 PM

Agreed, but they'd have to test with both. So SSDs in the top end, HDs at the bottom (or BTO), and only one internal drive bay again. And no eSATA port of course.

P · Oct 14, 2012, 11:41 PM

If Apple is going to 2.5" drives, I suspect that they're doing it by putting a double 2.5" bay in there - like the Mac mini has - and making SSDs standard except on an educational model. Apple uses 1/3 height HDDs, and two regular 2.5" drives will still be thinner than that even if they are on top of each other - which is what that picture implies (look at the height of the fans). They have to know the performance loss from going to a 2.5" HDD, and the fact that Dark Wake in ML supposedly only works with Apple-installed SSDs makes it suspicious that the second biggest selling model they have is still going with HDDs.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 15, 2012, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

Agreed, but they'd have to test with both. So SSDs in the top end, HDs at the bottom (or BTO), and only one internal drive bay again. And no eSATA port of course.

I don't mean to be at all confrontational, but Apple is never going to bother with eSATA. They would have done so by now, and now they have Thunderbolt and other people are providing eSATA as they always have. I don't know why people continue to raise eSATA with every new Mac that is released. Its never going to happen, sorry.

P · Oct 15, 2012, 05:42 AM

Also note that the future of SATA, called SATA Express, is just PCIe over a SATA cable - or, put another way: internal Thunderbolt.

Eug · Oct 16, 2012, 06:18 AM

Apple insider says October 24 for new iMacs

If so, that means 540 days since the last update.

DarkStarRed · Oct 18, 2012, 12:34 AM

23 announcement 24 launch.. can't wait to see what changes they've made!

mattyb · Oct 19, 2012, 02:53 PM

I'm bound to be underwhelmed.

shabbasuraj · Oct 19, 2012, 05:31 PM

If those rMBA rumors/pics are real then I would have to think all new iMacs will be getting 2 thunderbolt ports.

Eug · Oct 20, 2012, 11:46 AM

Most of the rumors say no retina. I'm inclined to agree.

anthology123 · Oct 21, 2012, 09:06 PM

If Oct 23rd is an ipad Mini/MacBook Pro 13" Retina announcement, and Oct 24th is an iMac release update, doesn't that sound suspiciously like the Macbook Pro Retina event, where they quietly updated the Mac Pro with minor improvements the day after?

P · Oct 21, 2012, 11:52 PM

They actually updated the Mac Pro the same day. Usually that's what they do - the Apple Store goes down, and when it comes up, there are a few more changes than they said. I think the 23rd/24th bit is either time difference around the globe (if Apple announces at around 10 am in California, shops are closed in Europe and Asia by the time the store is updated) or general confusion.

SierraDragon · Oct 22, 2012, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

If those rMBA rumors/pics are real then I would have to think all new iMacs will be getting 2 thunderbolt ports.

They certainly should because a single Thunderbolt port is immediately taken by a third party external display, leaving no port for other Thunderbolt devices.

-Allen

gooser · Oct 23, 2012, 09:43 AM

no optical drive on the new one? that kills it for me. no big deal, i'm 61 years old. the supply of usable imacs with optical drives won't dry up in my lifetime.

gooser · Oct 23, 2012, 10:44 AM

i do like the way it looks though.

reader50 · Oct 23, 2012, 10:54 AM

They still like the chin.

Eug · Oct 23, 2012, 11:02 AM

Not interested. The upgrade options for the 21.5" kinda suck.

Originally Posted by reader50

They still like the chin.

That too.

shabbasuraj · Oct 23, 2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by SierraDragon

They certainly should because a single Thunderbolt port is immediately taken by a third party external display, leaving no port for other Thunderbolt devices.
-Allen

yay 2 TB ports as I predicted.. (self-brag)

Anyone have any info about those new graphic cards? Yay or nay?

P · Oct 23, 2012, 02:10 PM

The three lower GPUs are actually the same GPU, just clocked a little differently. The 650M is the same as in the MBP. The 660M is a boosted version of that - roughly a desktop 650 vanilla - and should be a little slower than the 6970M in last year's top iMac. The 640M is just the 650M slightly underclocked - Apple ships it with GDDR5 memory, so it's not too shabby. The 675MX - GPU in the top default config - is a GTX 680 but cut down so massively in cores and clocks that is roughly comparable to a desktop GTX 660 vanilla. The top BTO GPU, the GTX680M, is the best mobile GPU out there. It is cut down a little and underclocked a lot (at least for memory) compared to the desktop 680 it is based on. I think it comes out to a desktop GTX 660 Ti in the end - which is still a very powerful chip. I think that this is the first GPU that will actually let you game at the panel's native 2560*1440 resolution, if you stay off the craziest quality settings. Some games (like Crysis) rely heavily on memory bandwidth and will hurt, but a game like Skyrim gets 68 fps at 2560*1600 and Ultra quality.

Shaddim · Oct 23, 2012, 06:07 PM

Damn, I love that 27"er. That's going to be my new office machine. Sexy.

Doc HM · Oct 24, 2012, 12:30 AM

Non user upgradable memory on the 21.5 is a bit of a downer but not unexpected given Apples current manufacturing philosophy. More surprised that they actually allow it on the 27in.

While the new iMac is indeed lovely, and thin of course the product shots on the website do seem to go to absolutely extreme lengths to avoid showing the actual back of the product.

P · Oct 24, 2012, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Doc HM

Non user upgradable memory on the 21.5 is a bit of a downer but not unexpected given Apples current manufacturing philosophy. More surprised that they actually allow it on the 27in.

I would say that the upgradeability of the 21.5" is unknown at this point. Note that the Mac mini, which we know is upgradeable, is also missing that comment. It could be that they simply have 2 slots instead of 4.

It is a bit curious how you are supposed to reach those slots at all. Remove the stand, maybe?

Shaddim · Oct 24, 2012, 12:45 AM

I think this is the only itty-bitty profile shot.

6270/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

ajprice · Oct 24, 2012, 06:56 AM

Mahoosive size image that shows the iMac side on.

Spheric Harlot · Oct 24, 2012, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by P

Originally Posted by Doc HM

Non user upgradable memory on the 21.5 is a bit of a downer but not unexpected given Apples current manufacturing philosophy. More surprised that they actually allow it on the 27in.

I would say that the upgradeability of the 21.5" is unknown at this point. Note that the Mac mini, which we know is upgradeable, is also missing that comment. It could be that they simply have 2 slots instead of 4.

It is a bit curious how you are supposed to reach those slots at all. Remove the stand, maybe?

Here it is:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6402/up-close-with-the-new-27inch-imacs-user-serviceable-memory-panel

The 21.5" model IS upgradeable, but needs to be dismantled for RAM installation.

shabbasuraj · Oct 24, 2012, 08:30 PM

'P'.... Thanks for the reply and the all the details.

Overall, after some time to reflect on the new iMac, I still have some mixed feelings about it.

I understand the need to push the envelope and leave legacy things behind like dvd drives... but I think the majority of iMac buyers would still 'not object' to having an dvd drive.

Price went up, screen got better, 2 TB ports, fusion hd, all nice but, again, I am still not convinced that aesthetic thinness is a priority to the average user. The outgoing models were already thin.

O well...

On another note, considering the select priorities that Apple has decided to focus on with this new iMac form factor, I am convinced that the new MacPro is going to be completely different as well, and prices will also rise for that line.

I imagine some sort of 5-8 cm blade tower thingy as the new MacPro.

mattyb · Oct 25, 2012, 10:47 AM

Can't configure the beast in France yet so no idea what prices will be for the 'extras'. Strangely one can configure the Mac Mini.

2049€ for the 3.2Ghz 27 incher. I reckon it'll be 3000 by the time you count the 2G GPU, 3T Fusion and the i7. Still, if it lasts me over 5 years (as my present iMac has), it'll be a worthwhile investment.

December won't come fast enough.

-------

Strange that the 21s and 27s both have the same number of connections. I'll put a bet on that that changes.

Waragainstsleep · Oct 25, 2012, 04:30 PM

The Mac Minis are already shipping and in the wild. I believe the same is true of the retina 13" MBP, the iMacs cannot currently be pre-ordered which is odd because Apple has withdrawn the old models so as of now, you cannot order a brand new iMac from Apple. Only a refurb. Seems a bit crazy to be honest.

Shaddim · Oct 25, 2012, 05:12 PM

After the announcement I went there looking to see if there's a pre-order, nada. At the time there was a button for "Buy Now", but it just kept you going around in circles.

mattyb · Nov 11, 2012, 11:01 AM

USA and France Store for the iMacs is now showing the old models. Come on Apple !

Shaddim · Nov 12, 2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by mattyb

USA and France Store for the iMacs is now showing the old models. Come on Apple !

I saw that. I was so excited I almost ordered, and then realized it was the old model.

My joy deflated like a balloon. Damn you Apple!

Eug · Nov 15, 2012, 06:13 AM

New iMacs not until 2013!

http://www.macbidouille.com/news/2012/11/14/apple-pas-d-imac-avant-la-fin-de-l-annee

Well, maybe. The site is claiming around Xmas time to early next year.