Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Doofy · Dec 12, 2006, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well some do like their pot and speed.

Some, hence use of the word "most".

Jawbone54 · Dec 12, 2006, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

What one needs to understand is that Gwen Stefani is actually insane. Not just acting insane, but actually really properly out to lunch.

That made me laugh. I've never heard that phrase before.

cakey · Dec 12, 2006, 11:22 AM

Gwen has got an incredible voice. Proof.

Nicko · Dec 12, 2006, 11:28 AM

No Doubt

KeyLimePi · Dec 12, 2006, 11:55 AM

At least Gwen's better than Pink.

turtle777 · Dec 12, 2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

That made me laugh. I've never heard that phrase before.

LOL, I remember that phrase, had some friends in England that used it. Haven't heard it in a while though.

-t

kmkkid · Dec 12, 2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

That made me laugh. I've never heard that phrase before.

They say it on Coronation street every other day

analogika · Dec 12, 2006, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

Oh, so musical artistry and dignity don't matter?! No wonder guitar screeches and off-key howlers are more highly regarded than purely and truly talented artists such as Anastacia, Maysa, Lisa Stansfield, Kate Bush, Dannii and Kylie Minogue, Amy Holland and Miki Howard.

I think we can safely deduct from this thread that you wouldn't know - or care about - real talent if it came up and walloped you over the head with a baseball bat.

analogika · Dec 12, 2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Oisín

Excuse me while I roll around on the floor laughing for a while.

You might (just might, possibly, conceivably) have had a tiny bit of a point if you’d left out some of those, especially Anastacia and Dannii (who are both talentless hacks)—but with those on the list, it’s just empty blather.

Actually, Anastacia is pretty DAMN good. Seriously. I can't stand listening to her at ALL, but she really is tremendous at what she does.

In fact, she is actually capable of what you hear on her songs, with minimal editing. If you can bear it, watch her live sometime. Impressive.

IceEnclosure · Dec 12, 2006, 02:15 PM

Fergie sucks. BEP was better by themselves (back in the day)

When I think of her, I imagine Fergie at home listening to M.I.A. over and over, wishing. Dunno why.

She's got hot long legs tho

edit: her legs are hot, but not that long.

Dakar² · Dec 12, 2006, 02:18 PM

Personally I think she's got a nice midriff section.

DeathMan · Dec 12, 2006, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by cakey

Gwen has got an incredible voice. Proof.

Okay, that's Save Ferris.

I always liked "Happy Now" and "Spiderwebs" and I always had to click forward on "The Climb." I hate that song. Its like 7 minues of just boring nothing.

G Barnett · Dec 12, 2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

I think we can safely deduct from this thread that you wouldn't know - or care about - real talent if it came up and walloped you over the head with a baseball bat.

gulmatan · 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by G Barnett

I think we can safely deduct from this thread that you wouldn't know - or care about - real talent if it came up and walloped you over the head with a baseball bat.

FIRST OF ALL, I've been following music for 30 years--I've seen the rise of New Wave, EuroPop, EuroDisco, Punk, Devo, The Cars, Nik Kershaw, Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, Tom Petty, The Go-Gos, Go West and yes even Kylie Minogue way back in 1987 (when America considered her a "one-hit-wonder"). Now look at her career. I've seen the surges of Billy Joel, Tina Turner, Hall & Oates, Peter Gabriel and Diana Ross still recording hit after hit even in the 80s. Oh yes, I've been through the encyclopedia of music even through the best decades--the 70s and 80s. To see today's standards of talent is completely embarassing when compared to what I have seen in decades past.

Oh, and by the way, Kylie is a multi-number-one selling singles (over 20 number ones) and multi-platinum albums artist, selling out international concerts in Japan, England, Italy, France, Europe and her native Australia as well as anywhere else she tours. She is infinitely admired and adored and APPRECIATED. The same success is enjoyed by her sister Dannii. Contrary to American lack of musical integrity, these sisters are enormously talented, their success proves that!

Mastrap · Dec 12, 2006, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

these sisters are enormously talented, their success proves that!

Commercial success is proof of talent?

iREZ · Dec 12, 2006, 06:02 PM

gwen and no doubt are both ok in my book...nothing great, but good nonetheless.

G Barnett · Dec 12, 2006, 06:02 PM

Eh, I'll give him Kylie Minogue -- though I'm of the opinion her best work was a duet in the mid-90s with Nick Cave called "Where the Wild Roses Grow."

(Not at all sure why he felt compelled to quote my goofy image -- analogika's comment just seemed to scream out for a bit of Lil' Slugger to accompany it)

Chuckit · Dec 12, 2006, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

Oh, and by the way, Kylie is a multi-number-one selling singles (over 20 number ones) and multi-platinum albums artist, selling out international concerts in Japan, England, Italy, France, Europe and her native Australia as well as anywhere else she tours. She is infinitely admired and adored and APPRECIATED. The same success is enjoyed by her sister Dannii. Contrary to American lack of musical integrity, these sisters are enormously talented, their success proves that!

Wait, so before you were complaining about how successful Gwen is even though she isn't any good, but now you're telling us that being successful proves a singer is good?

gulmatan · 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by G Barnett

Eh, I'll give him Kylie Minogue -- though I'm of the opinion her best work was a duet in the mid-90s with Nick Cave called "Where the Wild Roses Grow."

(Not at all sure why he felt compelled to quote my goofy image -- analogika's comment just seemed to scream out for a bit of Lil' Slugger to accompany it)

I'm a little rusty on BBS etiquette so, I though, if I were to quote a post, EVERYTHING from the cited post needed to be included.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Wait, so before you were complaining about how successful Gwen is even though she isn't any good, but now you're telling us that being successful proves a singer is good?

My point being that although there are artists who have international appeal and TALENT, America would rather foster indolent and impudent no-talent hacks like Green Day, Black-Eyeds Peas, No Doubt, Fergie and Gwen Stefani. Thus, REAL talent like Kylie, Davi Amarante, Amy Holland and Miki Howard get ignored and passed off.

G Barnett · Dec 12, 2006, 06:30 PM

Well, there's the original post that I quoted in the first place, but that's splitting hairs -- and I'm more bemused than anything else, really.

'Course, I do disagree on your assessment of Gwen -- saw her in concert with No Doubt (on tour with Goo Goo Dolls & Bush) and she's got a stage presence that can't be beat. Plus I happen to be a fan of the Roaring 20s style baby-doll voice she does from time to time.

Still, I have to say, she can't hold a candle to Shirley Manson of Garbage. I admit it -- chicks with Scottish accents are HOT.

gulmatan · Dec 12, 2006, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by invisibleX

So what do you want? Every artist who doesn't appeal to you burned at the stake? Only music you like sold on iTMS? Guess what: there are people out there... who don't have the same taste in music as you! Maybe I like off-key whores. It's none of your damn business.

Now, if you could stop telling people what to enjoy and scuttle back to whatever rock you crawled out from I'd be much obliged.

(For the record, I don't care for Gwen's music or looks at all)

Here's my point with this one:

If you've used Amazon, you know that when you log in, immediately there is a CUSTOMIZED start page for you with personal recommendations for you based on YOUR tastes. Furthermore, for added customization, just click on what they suggest, click on a "Own It" or "Don't Like It" checkbox and refresh the screen. So, instead of having to start off by looking at stuff Amazon want to shove down your throat, you see what you like. Point being, if a book/music/megastore can do this, why can't Apple? I mean if Apple, a computer company at that, can create Macs, iPods, a MusicStore, design websites, why can't they create an iTunes Music Store Start Page that suits my tastes when I log in?

olePigeon · Dec 12, 2006, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by G Barnett

I admit it -- chicks with Scottish accents are HOT.

That's a known evolutionary fact. Women evolved to be more attractive with Irish and Scottish accents. Red hair is the equivalent of opposable thumbs.

::maroma:: · Dec 12, 2006, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

Here's my point with this one:

If you've used Amazon, you know that when you log in, immediately there is a CUSTOMIZED start page for you with personal recommendations for you based on YOUR tastes. So, instead of having to start off by looking at stuff Amazon want to shove down your throat, you see what you like. Point being, if a book/music/megastore can do this, why can't Apple? I mean if Apple, a computer company at that, can create Macs, iPods, a MusicStore, design websites, why can't they create an iTunes Music Store Start Page that suits my tastes when I log in?

There is a section within the main page of the iTunes store just like that. Its not the whole page, but get over it.

Besides, that Amazon crap is lame. They MAYBE get about 10% right on what "I like" and what "I want". How the fukc do they know what I want? They do it based on math, and you can't get that crap right with some sort of mathematical formula.

Anyways, seems we've peeled back a layer here and revealed that its not Gwen that gets under your skin, but the fact that iTunes store doesn't read your mind and keep you seeing only what you might want.

Again I say, get over it.

volcano · Dec 12, 2006, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I'm a little rusty on BBS etiquette so, I though, if I were to quote a post, EVERYTHING from the cited post needed to be included.

My point being that although there are artists who have international appeal and TALENT, America would rather foster indolent and impudent no-talent hacks like Green Day, Black-Eyeds Peas, No Doubt, Fergie and Gwen Stefani. Thus, REAL talent like Kylie, Davi Amarante, Amy Holland and Miki Howard get ignored and passed off.

Please spare us your crap and study your facts.

For the record: The Black Eyed Peas first gained major success in the UK (gasp!) from their first single off of Elephunk, "Where Is The Love?" In fact, it was #1 on the charts there for six weeks and following it, "Shut Up" went all the way to #2. "Where Is The Love?" became the biggest-selling single of 2003 [in the UK]. For most of their career, the Black Eyed Peas have consistently charted higher with their singles in the UK than the US.

Try again.

gulmatan · Dec 12, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by volcano

Please spare us your crap and study your facts.

For the record: The Black Eyed Peas first gained major success in the UK (gasp!) from their first single off of Elephunk, "Where Is The Love?" In fact, it was #1 on the charts there for six weeks and following it, "Shut Up" went all the way to #2. "Where Is The Love?" became the biggest-selling single of 2003 [in the UK]. For most of their career, the Black Eyed Peas have consistently charted higher with their singles in the UK than the US.

Try again.

I'VE STUDIED THE FACTS!!!!!! How dare you insult my musical expertise! The fact that these no talents have made top chart success goes to prove my point that as no-talent slop hits the charts nowadays, the real talent gets ignored and has to sit on the bottom-60 of Billboard's Hot 100 charts. Oh yes rarely does real talent hit top 40/top 10 ranks but you have to sift through BEP, Fergie and My Chemical Romance to see the really good stuff.

residentEvil · Dec 12, 2006, 07:15 PM

well, so far you expertise is ****.

Chuckit · Dec 12, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I'VE STUDIED THE FACTS!!!!!! How dare you insult my musical expertise! The fact that these no talents have made top chart success goes to prove my point that as no-talent slop hits the charts nowadays, the real talent gets ignored and has to sit on the bottom-60 of Billboard's Hot 100 charts. Oh yes rarely does real talent hit top 40/top 10 ranks but you have to sift through BEP, Fergie and My Chemical Romance to see the really good stuff.

What is talent? I enjoy Gwen Stefani's music much more than Dannii Minogue's. How do we establish which has more talent?

Oisín · Dec 12, 2006, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I'VE STUDIED THE FACTS!!!!!! How dare you insult my musical expertise! The fact that these no talents have made top chart success goes to prove my point that as no-talent slop hits the charts nowadays, the real talent gets ignored and has to sit on the bottom-60 of Billboard's Hot 100 charts. Oh yes rarely does real talent hit top 40/top 10 ranks but you have to sift through BEP, Fergie and My Chemical Romance to see the really good stuff.

Want a shoe to hit the table with?

FIRST OF ALL, I've been following music for 30 years

So has anyone else over the age of 40.

To see today's standards of talent is completely embarassing when compared to what I have seen in decades past.

No. Just no. There’s been a lot of crap done all the way back from the beginning of the music industry (let’s start from, say, the 50s, since everything before that is sort of from a time when the music industry wasn’t quite what we understand by the term today). The 60s had their share of talentless crap. The 70s had more than their share of unlistenable horror. The 80s were a true ramshackle of universal taste collapse (not only in music). The 90s gave birth to conveyor-belt music with neither taste, soul, personal touch, nor anything to justify its existence. But the first decade of the new millennium has actually, unbelievable as it seems, gone in the right direction: empty-headed plastic muzak has lost most of its popularity, and artists/songwriters that actually seem to have a brain in their head have started to come to the fore again.

If you ask me, the 80s and 90s were the epitome of musical crappiness. This decade is getting its act back together again and producing some decent music.

Oh, and by the way, Kylie is a multi-number-one selling singles (over 20 number ones) and multi-platinum albums artist, selling out international concerts in Japan, England, Italy, France, Europe and her native Australia as well as anywhere else she tours.

And that means, as has been pointed out, exactly nothing. Most of this goes for Gwen Stefani as well.

(I happen to agree, though, that Kylie has talent: she’s gone a decent voice, she’s able to renew herself, and she’s a great performer)

The same success is enjoyed by her sister Dannii.

In which parallel universe, exactly? Dannii is, and has always been, a flop compared to Kylie. And not undeservingly so: unlike her sister, Dannii has not been able to do anything apart from sing. Like her sister, however, she only does that decently, nothing more.

::maroma:: · Dec 12, 2006, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I'VE STUDIED THE FACTS!!!!!!

Study harder, because you failed the test!

(oh snap!)

cakey · Dec 12, 2006, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by DeathMan

Okay, that's Save Ferris.

No. Its Reel Big Fish with Gwen singing. She's done some live stuff with them too.

andi*pandi · Dec 12, 2006, 09:04 PM

well then it sounds EXACTLY like the Save Ferris version of Come on Eileen. Note for note.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/M...41&i=192859115

edit: wikipedia told me that the singer for Save Ferris, Monique Powell has also performed with artists such as Reel Big Fish.

- - e r i k - - · Dec 12, 2006, 09:18 PM

Wrong.

Cover versions

The song has since been covered by artists including Save Ferris (often confused with No Doubt or Reel Big Fish), Skyclad, Blackthorn, the Japanese band nil, and Badly Drawn Boy. In June 2004 in the UK, the tune was used for the song "Come on England", by a group of football fans calling themselves "4-4-2". The song was intended to support the England football team during the Euro 2004 competition.

Song: Come on Eileen

By Dexys Midnight Runners
Music and lyrics by Kevin Rowland, Jim Paterson, Billy Adams, Micky Billingham

Cover hierarchy

Come on Eileen by Dexys Midnight Runners (1982)
Come on Eileen by Skyclad (1996)
Come on Eileen by Save Ferris (1997)
Come on Eileen by Badly Drawn Boy feat. Jools Holland (October 14, 2002)

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I've been through the encyclopedia of music even through the best decades--the 70s and 80s. To see today's standards of talent is completely embarassing when compared to what I remember from decades past.

Fixed that for you.

Three points:

1. Equating sales with talent completely disqualifies your claims to expertise, and

2. In the olden days, the music sucked compared to the olden days, too. And don't get me started on jazz! Primitive, talentless hacks playing meaningless drivel over rhythmically repetitive Negro music. A far cry from the harmonically difficile music of "the old days". Yes, the '20s just ain't what they used to be...

3. What's memorable is a tiny fraction of what existed at the time. There was a tremendous amount of complete **** around in the sixties, 70s, and especially 80s. Much of it didn't survive in documentation.

You're just getting old and too opinionated to realize that taste is not a good judge of quality.

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

I'VE STUDIED THE FACTS!!!!!! How dare you insult my musical expertise!

Drunk or sarcasm?

You decide.

Dakar² · Dec 13, 2006, 09:15 AM

Red Bull & Idiocy

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 09:28 AM

He's too old for Red Bull if he's been STUDYING THE MUSIC BUSINESS FOR THIRTY YEARS™ (HowDareWeQuestionHisExpertise)...

I note he didn't mention Donny & Marie Osmond or any of the HUNDREDS of crappy disco bands or Brotherhood of Man ("Save All Your Kisses for Me") or Smokey ("Alice"), nor any of the thousands of atrocities nobody (thankfully) remembers today when speaking rave of the 70s...

Kevin · Dec 13, 2006, 09:29 AM

Hey Muskrat Love rules.

Dakar² · Dec 13, 2006, 09:32 AM

Well then, curmudgeoness and idiocy

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 09:35 AM

I dunno, "curmudgeon" to me implies an endearing wit and a sharp tongue.

But that might just be because "The Portable Curmudgeon" is my second-favorite book (right after "Archy and Mehitabel").

Dakar² · Dec 13, 2006, 09:36 AM

Makes me think of the old guy who worries about kids on the lawn.

Y3a · Dec 13, 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

FIRST OF ALL, I've been following music for 30 years--I've seen the rise of New Wave, EuroPop, EuroDisco, Punk, Devo, The Cars, Nik Kershaw, Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, Tom Petty, The Go-Gos, Go West and yes even Kylie Minogue way back in 1987 (when America considered her a "one-hit-wonder"). Now look at her career. I've seen the surges of Billy Joel, Tina Turner, Hall & Oates, Peter Gabriel and Diana Ross still recording hit after hit even in the 80s. Oh yes, I've been through the encyclopedia of music even through the best decades--the 70s and 80s. To see today's standards of talent is completely embarassing when compared to what I have seen in decades past.

Oh, and by the way, Kylie is a multi-number-one selling singles (over 20 number ones) and multi-platinum albums artist, selling out international concerts in Japan, England, Italy, France, Europe and her native Australia as well as anywhere else she tours. She is infinitely admired and adored and APPRECIATED. The same success is enjoyed by her sister Dannii. Contrary to American lack of musical integrity, these sisters are enormously talented, their success proves that!

Big Deal!! So you've following the music for 30 years. So that somehow implies that you have taste or know what you are talking about? I've been following the music since the late 1950's and I wouldn't claim the nonsence YOU are. I've been on the radio, and was a nightclub DJ in the late 70's thru mid '80's, and was closely involved with Dc's last progressive station when it really WAS progressive ([email protected]) I did live sound and studio stuff for lots of artists, and music has sucked since the mid 90's. The mid and late 1960's was the most innovative, and the early to mid 80's were cool too. Disco still sucks!

Dakar² · Dec 13, 2006, 02:28 PM

And then the thread REALLY got going.

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 06:15 PM

:fetches popcorn:

On theme that appears to be common in all discussions about music is that most people appear to consider anything and everything that happens after they themselves hit about thirty to be complete ****.

There's some GREAT disco out there, btw. As with every genre, most of it sucks, though (except emo - all of that sucks; but then, it showed up around when I hit thirty).

gulmatan · 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Y3a

Big Deal!! So you've following the music for 30 years. So that somehow implies that you have taste or know what you are talking about? I've been following the music since the late 1950's and I wouldn't claim the nonsence YOU are. I've been on the radio, and was a nightclub DJ in the late 70's thru mid '80's, and was closely involved with Dc's last progressive station when it really WAS progressive ([email protected]) I did live sound and studio stuff for lots of artists, and music has sucked since the mid 90's. The mid and late 1960's was the most innovative, and the early to mid 80's were cool too. Disco still sucks!

So you see my point! The latter 90s up to today's music is SUBSTANDARD compared to the geniuses of the 60s--Holland/Dozier Holland, Berry Gordy. Then from the 70s--Barry White, Elton John/Bernie Taupin; Rickie Lee Jones; Joni Mitchell; Earth, Wind & Fire; Bernard Edwards and Chic; Carole King, Teddy Pendergrass, Minnie Riperton, Billy Joel. Next, from the 80s -- Chris Difford & Glen Tilbrook with Squeeze, Nick Lowe, Howard Hewett and Shalamar, Midge Ure & Ultravox, Bernard Sumner & New Order, Alan Parsons, Peter Case & The Plimsouls, Michael Omartian & Christopher Cross, Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis and so forth.

But, the 90s had fewer and fewer geniuses to lead the way. Oh there were breakthrough artists like Mariah Carey and Wilson Phillips BUT after a few years until 95, the genius eroded till it became a "needle in a haystack" system in order to find the genius and artistry. Nowadays, it's more sloth and indolence like Gwen and Fergie and it's a miracle when someone like Stevie Wonder and New Order are still recording.

PS Disco still works. Case in point--KBIG-FM 104.3 (Los Angeles) with its "Saturday Night Disco Party" or its daily noontime Disco Lunch.

Nicko · Dec 13, 2006, 06:20 PM

I would just like to add that this thread is useless without pictures.

adamjackson1984 · Dec 13, 2006, 06:20 PM

yea gwen has lost all poitns in my book after no doubt disbanded

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by gulmatan

But, the 90s had fewer and fewer geniuses to lead the way. Oh there were breakthrough artists like Mariah Carey and Wilson Phillips BUT after a few years until 95, the genius eroded till it became a "needle in a haystack" system in order to find the genius and artistry. Nowadays, it's more sloth and indolence like Gwen and Fergie and it's a miracle when someone like New Order is still recording.

No, you just completely lost track of where the magic was happening.

The late 90s saw Björk, Autechre, Plaid, Aphex Twin, The Orb, Orbital, and a huge number of vastly talented electronic artists. This has been their age.

gulmatan · Dec 13, 2006, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by analogika

No, you just completely lost track of where the magic was happening.

The late 90s saw Björk, Autechre, Plaid, Aphex Twin, The Orb, Orbital, and a huge number of vastly talented electronic artists. This has been their age.

Thanks for bringing them to mind. And yes, you're right!!! Alas, they're part of the genius that gets clouded over because the promotion of the no-talent acts somewhat clouds the horizon and genius acts such as Björk and Orbital get lost in the fog since America is more interested in the hip/hop, rap-crap, Xtina and S**tney crap instead.

Chuckit · Dec 13, 2006, 08:05 PM

You think Mariah "I've sold millions of albums of just me breathing" Carey is a genius and Christina Aguilera is "fog"? What on earth are your standards for this crap?

analogika · Dec 13, 2006, 08:09 PM

Now, pull your head just that bit further out of your ass and stop to think which acts we all might remember twenty years from now, when we're all talking about how much better music was back then.

Hmm?

Again, I didn't see you mention Donny & Marie Osmond and the whole deluge of disgusting wholesome American Family Value popular entertainment that flooded the airwaves just before the advent of disco in the 70s. Might it be that the mainstream fluff wasn't worth remembering, or are you just going to claim that it never existed?

Yes, the marketing machinery has got harder and faster over the years, and in parallel, the corps get more desperate, but come on.