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mchladek · Aug 7, 2002, 02:23 AM

Okay, maybe this is just a pet peeve of mine, why do so many people refer to companies as plural? I've read several posts on these fora saying things like 'Apple are' or 'M$ make.' Does that look weird to anyone else? I mean isn't that like saying, 'New York are a beautiful city'?

v0id7 · Aug 7, 2002, 02:25 AM

your right, apple is not plural. or at least to me its not.

el lindo · Aug 7, 2002, 02:30 AM

I agree, sounds quite wrong.

fulmer · Aug 7, 2002, 05:06 AM

my understanding is that this is the way brits and aussies do it--companies take plural verb tenses.

red rocket · Aug 7, 2002, 09:55 AM

To me, Apple are plural. Same with other companies.

Then again, I don't give a flying fart if someone says it differently.

Here's an example:
"Microsoft sucks," you might say. I, on the other hand, will say: "Microsoft are f*cking bastards!"
Who cares about semantics as long as we're in agreement?

Really, how on earth can anyone get their knickers in a twist/panties in a knot over something this trivial?

Mediaman_12 · Aug 7, 2002, 10:06 AM

It all depends how it is phrased.
A display of New Apple Macintosh computers
Apple's display of new Macintosh computers

see it can work be both ways (one is probbaly better English then th other though).

forkies · Aug 7, 2002, 10:43 AM

group (plural vs.singular)

forkies · Aug 7, 2002, 10:46 AM

another link (more detailed):

collective noun

KaptainKaya · Aug 7, 2002, 11:26 AM

Or worse, when people refer to Apple Computer as 'Apple Computers, Inc."

The_Equivocator · Aug 7, 2002, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by Mediaman_12:
Apple's display of new Macintosh computers

Hmmm... you're leaving the realm of plurality and entering the land of possession (hence, the apostrophe).

chris v · Aug 7, 2002, 12:25 PM

It'a a Real English vs. American English thing.

In Britain, Apple are plural.

In America, Apple is singular.

G*d, but how I love our ever-changing, living, breathing language! Purists be d@mned.

CV

mchladek · Aug 7, 2002, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by red rocket:
Really, how on earth can anyone get their knickers in a twist/panties in a knot over something this trivial?

It's not that it makes me really upset; it's just that I was wondering if there was an actual divide in the English language when it came to this rule or if it was a common mistake made.

Thanks chris v and forkies. I had a feeling there was an American/British English division going on, but wasn't quite for sure.

agentz · Aug 7, 2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by KaptainKaya:
Or worse, when people refer to Apple Computer as 'Apple Computers, Inc."

Why? That's their name after all (well except the 's' on the end of your Computers). Well at least thats what it says at the bottom of every page at apple.com anyway.

bluemonday · Aug 8, 2002, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by chris v:
It'a a Real English vs. American English thing.

In Britain, Apple are plural.

In America, Apple is singular.

G*d, but how I love our ever-changing, living, breathing language! Purists be d@mned.

CV

Huh? I've never seen Apple referred to in the plural like that. "Apple are plural" grates on me, it sounds horrible.

Apple make computers.
Apple makes computers.
MS makes software.
MS make software.

Isn't that to do with tense rather than plural/singular?

talisker · Aug 8, 2002, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by bluemonday:

Huh? I've never seen Apple referred to in the plural like that. "Apple are plural" grates on me, it sounds horrible.

Apple make computers.
Apple makes computers.
MS makes software.
MS make software.

Isn't that to do with tense rather than plural/singular?

No, not tense, as these statements are all present tense. It is to do with singular or plural but it's just a bit of a grey area more than anything else. I dont even think there's a big US / UK split either.

It's right to say "Apple is a computer company" rather than "Apple are a computer company" because you are clearly referring to the single corporate entity named Apple. However, "Apple is stupid charging for .mac", and "Apple are stupid charging for .mac" are both reasonable, it's just a matter of taste which you prefer. It depends whether you're thinking primarily of Apple the single corporate entity, or really meaning "Those people that work at Apple".

Silky Voice of The Gorn · Aug 8, 2002, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by talisker:

No, not tense, as these statements are all present tense. It is to do with singular or plural but it's just a bit of a grey area more than anything else. I dont even think there's a big US / UK split either.

It's right to say "Apple is a computer company" rather than "Apple are a computer company" because you are clearly referring to the single corporate entity named Apple. However, "Apple is stupid charging for .mac", and "Apple are stupid charging for .mac" are both reasonable, it's just a matter of taste which you prefer. It depends whether you're thinking primarily of Apple the single corporate entity, or really meaning "Those people that work at Apple".

...I dunno, it still sounds fishy to me.
Using the term "Apple" is *always* referring to the corporate entity, hence "Apple is fscking crazy to charge for .Mac" is the only correct way to say it. If you want to refer to a group of people *within* Apple, then that would be "The accountants at Apple are fscking crazy to charge for .Mac"

But that's just my opinion, etc...

zigzag · Aug 8, 2002, 09:18 PM

I've posed this question a number of times but have never gotten an answer. It's definitely an American/Brit thing. Brits commonly say "Apple are releasing a new iMac this week."

I own a record player made in Scotland, by Linn. The literature always refers to Linn, the company, as plural, e.g. "Linn are . . .".

Another custom that I've always wondered about is how Americans say "I'm going to the hospital", whereas Brits say "I'm going to hospital."

BRussell · Aug 8, 2002, 09:53 PM

I don't think all the data are in on this question.

MikeM33 · 10:24 PM

Apple = singular. I'm fairly picky about my speech and try to be equally picky with punctuation and grammar.

"Apple is a company" would be correct.

"Apple are a company" would be incorrect.

"[ul]We[/ul] at Apple are committed to excellence." would be correct.

"This apple is delicious." would be correct.

"[ul]These apples[/ul] are delicious." would also be correct.

At least that's how I recall it from English classes, and my years in typography and proofreading.

MikeM32

Timo · Aug 8, 2002, 10:21 PM

"This train for C0ckfosters."

talisker · Aug 8, 2002, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn:

...I dunno, it still sounds fishy to me.
Using the term "Apple" is *always* referring to the corporate entity, hence "Apple is fscking crazy to charge for .Mac" is the only correct way to say it. If you want to refer to a group of people *within* Apple, then that would be "The accountants at Apple are fscking crazy to charge for .Mac"

But that's just my opinion, etc...

Technically you're right I would say, but in real life I think people use the plural form when they're assigning some sort of "human" action or description to the company, if that makes sense. Although strictly speaking Apple is a single item, when you talk about Apple being fscking crazy you're really talking about the decision-makers, accountants etc at Apple being crazy, and so plural sounds OK.Whereas if you say "Apple is a computer company" you really are meaning the single corporate entity.

It's the same sort of thing as "The crowd were restless". The crowd is a singular collective noun, but what you're really saying is "The people in the crowd were restless". Whereas if you say "The crowd was really huge", you do really mean the crowd itself was huge, not the individual people in it. (Although of course they might be!)

Anyway, I think I've convinced myself.