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Lateralus · Jan 14, 2006, 11:46 PM

Whoa...

http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawar...l/01141082.jpg

Please tell me my eyes aren't deceiving me. Is that a socketed CPU...

If so, I think I may have just found the first thing I like about the Intel switch.

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Whoa...

http://mactree.sannet.ne.jp/~kodawar...l/01141082.jpg

Please tell me my eyes aren't deceiving me. Is that a socketed CPU...

If so, I think I may have just found the first thing I like about the Intel switch.

It looks like all Core Duo chips are Socket 478.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

It looks like all Core Duo chips are Socket 478.

mduell, I know you understand a lot about computers (from your previous posts). I went to the Intel link that you provided but they can't seem to show the 2.0 Ghz Core Duo. It only shows 1.66 Ghz (MacBook Pro), 1.83 Ghz (17 inch) and 2.16 Ghz. Does it mean that the 20 inch iMac has a 2.16 Processor or that they overclocked the 1.83 Ghz to make it a 2.0 Ghz?

That kind of threw me off....

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

mduell, I know you understand a lot about computers (from your previous posts). I went to the Intel link that you provided but they can't seem to show the 2.0 Ghz Core Duo. It only shows 1.66 Ghz (MacBook Pro), 1.83 Ghz (17 inch) and 2.16 Ghz. Does it mean that the 20 inch iMac has a 2.16 Processor or that they overclocked the 1.83 Ghz to make it a 2.0 Ghz?

That kind of threw me off....

I noticed that omission too. The 2.0 (and the two low power chips) is listed elsewhere on the site, but for some reason they're not in processor spec finder yet.
The 2.0 is in the price list, and that's what really matters anyway.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 02:51 AM

oh ok...yeah for some reason they don't have the specs for it...thanks man!

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 02:53 AM

I was about to order more RAM for my computer and realized that the PC2-5300 is the 200 Pin not 240Pin which is waaaaay more expensive! I can't believe that they put a Laptop RAM!! Apple is gonna cause me to go bankrupt lol..

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

I was about to order more RAM for my computer and realized that the PC2-5300 is the 200 Pin not 240Pin which is waaaaay more expensive! I can't believe that they put a Laptop RAM!! Apple is gonna cause me to go bankrupt lol..

Oh not this crap from the G4 iMacs again... with the G5 iMacs they were using full size DIMMs.
At least there are two SO-DIMM slots this time.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Oh not this crap from the G4 iMacs again... with the G5 iMacs they were using full size DIMMs.
At least there are two SO-DIMM slots this time.

Yeah but they reduced from 2.5 GB RAM to 2.0 GB only! The PC2-5300 200-pin the cheapest i found was for $135.00 and it is out of stock...This is really starting to get on my nerves!
I love Apples but man you can't keep up with Steve Jobs...if you do you either go insane or your computer is worth half of the price in a week...

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

Yeah but they reduced from 2.5 GB RAM to 2.0 GB only! The PC2-5300 200-pin the cheapest i found was for $135.00 and it is out of stock...This is really starting to get on my nerves!

The 945GT chipset supports 4GB... so as soon as you can find 2GB PC2-5300 SO-DIMMs you can upgrade to 4GB.

Crucial has 1GB sticks for the Intel iMacs for $118 with free 2 day shipping (guaranteed compatibility and a lifetime warranty).

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

The 945GT chipset supports 4GB... so as soon as you can find 2GB PC2-5300 SO-DIMMs you can upgrade to 4GB.

Crucial has 1GB sticks for the Intel iMacs for $118 with free 2 day shipping (guaranteed compatibility and a lifetime warranty).

Really? That's cool...Apple's website shows max 2GB...I don't think they know what they are doing...seriously!

I had already gone to Crucial...it is out of stock...

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

Really? That's cool...Apple's website shows max 2GB...I don't think they know what they are doing...seriously!

I had already gone to Crucial...it is out of stock...

Oh, huh, I didn't click the buy button to see the out of stock message. I'm surprised they have it on sale while its out of stock.
The first batch of products that use DDR2-667 were all released in the last week or so, so I'm not surprised that you're seeing shortages.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Oh, huh, I didn't click the buy button to see the out of stock message. I'm surprised they have it on sale while its out of stock.
The first batch of products that use DDR2-667 were all released in the last week or so, so I'm not surprised that you're seeing shortages.

I'm going to wait and see if they have it in stock next week...if not I'll have to wait...

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

The 945GT chipset supports 4GB... so as soon as you can find 2GB PC2-5300 SO-DIMMs you can upgrade to 4GB.

Crucial has 1GB sticks for the Intel iMacs for $118 with free 2 day shipping (guaranteed compatibility and a lifetime warranty).

I swear if Steve Jobs comes out with a new iMac Model (Design) in 3 months I'll give up...I will go back to Windows machines...

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2006, 04:02 AM

...why do you keep making blue posts?

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

...why do you keep making blue posts?

I'm sorry...is it against the Forum Rules?

chrisutley · Jan 15, 2006, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

...why do you keep making blue posts?

Why do you keep pimping an obsolete processor in your sig?

harrisjamieh · Jan 15, 2006, 11:07 AM

thiagofll, no its not against the rules, I think its quite a welcome change from black. By the way, you sig says intel iMac 20", do you actually own it yet or is it ordered? I dont have a problem if you dont have it yet, just curious about how you like it if you do have it. Also, its 1.5 GB, not 1.5 Ghz RAM, in ur sig

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

It looks like all Core Duo chips are Socket 478.

Of course. But I think it's pretty safe to say that the expectation was for Apple to solder them, given their history of doing so.

Originally Posted by thiagofll

I'm sorry...is it against the Forum Rules?

No, but it's extraordinarily annoying. At least be consistent about it.

Originally Posted by chrisutley

Why do you keep pimping an obsolete processor in your sig?

Brownjer · Jan 15, 2006, 11:09 AM

Just a note to all drooling over getting a new machine. These are rev A's after a rather dramatic (dare I say apocalyptic) shift. The warranties cover defects, but they're still going to be giving a lot of people headaches if past Apple experience is any indication. Now, I'm not criticizing Apple, just saying that rev A's tend to be troublesome. Caveat emptor.

harrisjamieh · Jan 15, 2006, 11:17 AM

If im right, Intel made the motherboard, and processor, and although this is hardly a bullet proof combo, it still sounds like it could be relativly unproblematic. I think if there are any main problems with the Intels, like bugs, it will be with the software, not the hardware. Could be talking BS, but just my opinion

Eriamjh · 08:25 AM

This picture might violate the guidelines, but it looks to me like there is a SOCKET under the Core Duo CPU, meaning one could drop and upgrade CPU into the iMac with no trouble.

(Image against guidelines and I already posted it above - Lateralus) Edit - Sorry I missed it.

(I know it's barely released, but one can dream, can't one?)

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

thiagofll, no its not against the rules, I think its quite a welcome change from black. By the way, you sig says intel iMac 20", do you actually own it yet or is it ordered? I dont have a problem if you dont have it yet, just curious about how you like it if you do have it. Also, its 1.5 GB, not 1.5 Ghz RAM, in ur sig

I am receiving it on Wednesday January 18th. I ordered it January 10th but it took a while cuz they had to install the RAMS, Hard Drive and stuff plus its coming all the way from Shanghai China...

So I own it I just haven't received it yet...

baw · Jan 15, 2006, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by chrisutley

Why do you keep pimping an obsolete processor in your sig?

So obsolete that Sony and Microsoft are using them in the lastest gaming consoles?

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by baw

So obsolete that Sony and Microsoft are using them in the lastest gaming consoles?

That's why the Xbox were overheating!!!!

harrisjamieh · Jan 15, 2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

I am receiving it on Wednesday January 18th. I ordered it January 10th but it took a while cuz they had to install the RAMS, Hard Drive and stuff plus its coming all the way from Shanghai China...

So I own it I just haven't received it yet...

Cool, I ordered mine today too, they say 3 days for 'building order', and 3-7 days delivery. Why do they insist on free delivery?! Just let me pay and get it quicker!! I ordered a stock 17" model.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 01:44 PM

Do you guys know (performance-wise) what would be the Intel Core Duo compared to the Pentium D (Dual Processors). Because from what I understand Intel Core Duo was designed more towards Laptops and Pentium D towards desktops (correct me if I am wrong) ?!?!?!

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by harrisjamieh

Cool, I ordered mine today too, they say 3 days for 'building order', and 3-7 days delivery. Why do they insist on free delivery?! Just let me pay and get it quicker!! I ordered a stock 17" model.

Oh wow...3-7 Days? When I bought it it said 1-3 Business Days (of course when you upgrade stuff it says 3-5 Business Days)...They are probably selling like crazy!!!

You can pay for delivery but you know what, the last time I bought from them, the expedited delivery took just as long as the free delivery does. It comes all the way from China, so anything can delay the shipment.
I called them the last time and got my money back because in any moment they stated that my item would come all the way from China, so I thought I would receive it in 2 days or something. It took 1 1/2 weeks (after shipment) for me to receive the item I had paid $35 for Expedited Shipping. I was furious!

HouseSold · Jan 15, 2006, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

Do you guys know (performance-wise) what would be the Intel Core Duo compared to the Pentium D (Dual Processors). Because from what I understand Intel Core Duo was designed more towards Laptops and Pentium D towards desktops (correct me if I am wrong) ?!?!?!

Apple decided to go with the only chip that Intel could deliver now to sort of 'beat the street'. This is all transitional stuff anyway and those that can wait till later in the year, will most likely be greater rewarded. Eventually, we won't have a choice of PPC or Intel inside; but during this transition, we will have a choice still, just like in the old Moto move to PPC days.

baw · Jan 15, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

That's why the Xbox were overheating!!!!

The console wasn't overheating. Only a select few had problems with the power supply.

leery · 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

Do you guys know (performance-wise) what would be the Intel Core Duo compared to the Pentium D (Dual Processors). Because from what I understand Intel Core Duo was designed more towards Laptops and Pentium D towards desktops (correct me if I am wrong) ?!?!?!

The Pentium D is based on Pentium 4, while the Duo is based on Pentium M, initially targeted at laptops. In many ways the M is a superior design to the 4, most obviously in terms of power and clock efficiencies. Check out Arstechnica.com for several articles that explore the differences. IIRC, in most applications the P-M can do roughly 1.5 to 2 times the work of a P4 at the same clock speed, while consuming a fraction of the electrical power [EDIT: = produces far less heat.]

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by baw

The console wasn't overheating. Only a select few had problems with the power supply.

I'm not going to argue over this but from many websites I've read, Xboxes were overheating and Microsoft was replacing them with no charge.... People had to hang their Xboxes, to get more air flow...

baw · 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

I'm not going to argue over this but from many websites I've read, Xboxes were overheating and Microsoft was replacing them with no charge.... People had to hang their Xboxes, to get more air flow...

EDIT: Sorry for going off topic.

thiagofll · Jan 15, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by baw

Then why bring it up?

As a response to your stupid reply, that's why! You brought the Xbox up not me so ask yourself that question!

P · Jan 15, 2006, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Oh not this crap from the G4 iMacs again... with the G5 iMacs they were using full size DIMMs.
At least there are two SO-DIMM slots this time.

This sugggests that Apple is using the same motherboard in the iMac and the Macbook Pro.

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2006, 04:33 PM

Consoles have always had overheating issues in early revisions, namely the PS2.

What exactly is your point?

Before you decide to whip out your stick you might want to keep in mind the fact that some of the most advanced processors in the world are of the POWER family. Obsolote is not a word that applies to anything coming out of IBM. But if you're dead set on using that word, feel free to use it to describe Intel's 30 year old architecture which is nothing more than a patch on top of a patch.

rhashem · Jan 15, 2006, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by baw

So obsolete that Sony and Microsoft are using them in the lastest gaming consoles?

Sony and Microsoft are using Cell and Xenon, not the G5. Of course, they're also highly specialized machines, designed for maximum floating-point computation. In a desktop/workstation machine, the processor is actually expected to do an integer computation once in awhile...

rhashem · Jan 15, 2006, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Before you decide to whip out your stick you might want to keep in mind the fact that some of the most advanced processors in the world are of the POWER family. Obsolote is not a word that applies to anything coming out of IBM. But if you're dead set on using that word, feel free to use it to describe Intel's 30 year old architecture which is nothing more than a patch on top of a patch.

In-order processors aren't obsolete? At least Intel isn't fighting out-of-order processing tooth-and-nail. IBM's future POWER series looks quite broken as well. They're moving it more towards high-GHz, low IPC (like the Cell's PPE), with way unbalanced integer versus floating-point performance. In a world where everyone is switching to high-level languages like Java and C#*, this design is not a good match. In fact, you can say it is an obsolete one...

*) Which are greatly helped by integer parallelism, insensitivity to code scheduling, a large reorder window, low branch prediction latency --- basically, something _not_ designed as a stream processor.

baw · Jan 15, 2006, 04:50 PM

I didn't say it was a G5. However, it is PowerPC based, the very thing someone called obsolete.

And since we are talking about "obsolete" technology, isn't the Core Duo x86 based?

baw · Jan 15, 2006, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by thiagofll

As a response to your stupid reply, that's why! You brought the Xbox up not me so ask yourself that question!

Hi, welcome to the 'NN.

rhashem · Jan 15, 2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by baw

I didn't say it was a G5. However, it is PowerPC based, the very thing someone called obsolete.

And since we are talking about "obsolete" technology, isn't the Core Duo x86 based?

The way I read the original comment, the guy was referring to the G5 being obsolete, since that's what is in the sig in question. I wouldn't say the G5 is obsolete, but when you said "why is it used in the xbox, PS3", the meaning I inferred was that the G5 was used in the xbox, ps3, which is not the case.

As for x86 being obsolete --- that's certainly up for debate. x86 versus PowerPC isn't an architectural debate anymore, since neither the G5 nor modern x86 chips actually execute the instruction set as-is. The ISA is more of an abstract instruction encoding. It's not obvious which one is better. On one hand, PowerPC has more registers and is easier to decode. On the other hand, x86 has much higher code density, more compact memory operations, more flexible addressing modes, and better handling of immediate values. I wouldn't say *either* is obsolete, not as long as there are major strengths and weaknesses for each one.

harrisjamieh · Jan 15, 2006, 06:13 PM

Shutup. This is an Intel iMac thread, not a poxy console thread

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Brownjer

Just a note to all drooling over getting a new machine. These are rev A's after a rather dramatic (dare I say apocalyptic) shift. The warranties cover defects, but they're still going to be giving a lot of people headaches if past Apple experience is any indication. Now, I'm not criticizing Apple, just saying that rev A's tend to be troublesome. Caveat emptor.

Rev A products from Apple have no more or less defects, recalls, and related issues than any other revision.

Originally Posted by thiagofll

Do you guys know (performance-wise) what would be the Intel Core Duo compared to the Pentium D (Dual Processors). Because from what I understand Intel Core Duo was designed more towards Laptops and Pentium D towards desktops (correct me if I am wrong) ?!?!?!

Core Duo is designed for laptops and desktops. In many cases its as fast as the Pentium D, despite being at a much lower clockrate.

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Before you decide to whip out your stick you might want to keep in mind the fact that some of the most advanced processors in the world are of the POWER family. Obsolote is not a word that applies to anything coming out of IBM. But if you're dead set on using that word, feel free to use it to describe Intel's 30 year old architecture which is nothing more than a patch on top of a patch.

IBM certainly has some very impressive Power chips (POWER5 and PPC440 come to mind); they also have chips good for gaming consoles, like Cell. I don't think anyone will deny that. But they're lacking in strong chips for small form factor desktops like the iMac.
Aww, that's cute, attacking x86 for being 30 years old by calling it a patch on top of a patch. So I guess you think OSX is also obsolete, being based on 30 year old Unix concepts that have been patched, hacked, and upgraded along the way.
With Core Duo delivering the same Photoshop performance in emulation as the G5 offers natively and at a fraction of the power, I'd call Core Duo "mature" instead of "obsolete."

SEkker · Jan 15, 2006, 06:51 PM

Thanks all the info everyone. It was very helpful.

Went to the local Apple store, tested the 17" and 20" models. I was surprised that there was a noticeable speed increase going from the slower processor 17" to the faster processor driving the 20" monitor. Both were stock machines with only 512MB RAM. But both seemed like sweet machines.

I decided to go with a BTO model to add VRAM and go with the 500 GB HD -- Apple has priced the HD upgrade competitively, unlike their RAM --even tho replacing the HD looks straightforward from the published take-aparts.

With the addition of an external LCD monitor, this is going to be a sweet setup for our main fun project this spring, making DVD yearbooks from our kids' school years. Done every year in the past on MUCH machines (usually a laptop 1GHz or less in power), should be a real opportunity to use explore all the creative options from iLife 6.

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2006, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Aww, that's cute, attacking x86 for being 30 years old by calling it a patch on top of a patch. So I guess you think OSX is also obsolete, being based on 30 year old Unix concepts that have been patched, hacked, and upgraded along the way.
With Core Duo delivering the same Photoshop performance in emulation as the G5 offers natively and at a fraction of the power, I'd call Core Duo "mature" instead of "obsolete."

You're comparing two different worlds; software and hardware. I don't see a parallel.

UNIX may be old, but it's the best thing currently available for a commerial OS. x86 is not the best thing available for any implementation. So, like I said, I don't get your point.

toddtmw · Jan 15, 2006, 09:56 PM

What is it about the moderators of this board? If they're not locking threads, they're being fairly confrontational with the members. Is this board run by twelve-year-olds?

-Todd

Lateralus · Jan 15, 2006, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by toddtmw

What is it about the moderators of this board? If they're not locking threads, they're being fairly confrontational with the members. Is this board run by twelve-year-olds?

-Todd

No, we leave confrontation starting to new members.

And I don't see any confrontation going on. I'm having a conversation. Blue stars or not, I'm still a member.

toddtmw · Jan 15, 2006, 10:18 PM

"New". If you call a member for almost a year, new....

Just because I haven't posted much.

-Todd

Luca Rescigno · Jan 15, 2006, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

My most common posts: Core Duo is P6 based. 64-bit is pointless for the vast majory of desktops and espically laptops. Pioneer DVR-110D is a fast, inexpensive Mac compatible DVD burner. Build your own external drives; LaCie is poop. Buy Crucial RAM from Crucial. Newegg loves you for everything else.

You must think people take much more stock in what you say than they actually do to have a signature like that.

toddtmw · Jan 15, 2006, 10:39 PM

Actually, Mark Duell has posted some very informative and helpful posts about the Intel chips. I don't necessarily agree with everything in his sig, but I think his posts have been helpful.

-Todd

SEkker · Jan 15, 2006, 10:54 PM

I just visited the Ramjet website for 1 GB modules for an Intel iMac and a MacBook Pro.

I notice that the listed specs are not the same.

I thought these two machines were using the same motherboard?